COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Flasch186]

Its simply a stylized version of “both sides”. That’s all

He knows what he’s doing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by KSyrup

How about a man with HIV having unprotected sex with a woman? Not a guarantee of transmission by any stretch (CDC says 8 out of 10K). Just a "different life choice" to go around having one night stands? It's a free country and I can decide what risk I'm willing to take with other people's lives, right?

I'm assuming that we're still talking about the moral element and not the free country/rights element that's tangential to it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would fully agree with you that somebody who is unvaccinated results in a much greater risk that the person who has the one-night stands you describe. I also think this is in some respects a more direct analogy than the others we've been discussing, though there's also a very large difference between an overt act such as this compared to refusing a medical procedure. Ultimately however, as a society we accept levels of risk resulting from people's behavior in some ways, and we don't accept it in others. That often has little to do with the probability that someone will be negatively impacted and/or the severity of that impact. There's no line you can draw and say that we behave consistently, in the realm of law or the realism of social norms and morals, in deference to a principle of 'above this risk level isn't tolerated, below it is ok'.

We choose some things to care about, and others not to. Degree of risk is only one factor, how attached we are to something, willingness to give it up, tradition, etc., all of these are involved. One possible way forward as a society would be to form such a line - but that would involve a very different society than the one we have.

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Its simply a stylized version of “both sides”. That’s all

*Sigh* No, it really isn't. I've been abundantly clear on this repeatedly. Bothsidesism is about assigning equal blame to whatever two sides you want to imagine. I'm not doing that, I haven't, and I hope I won't. I don't think the vaccinate and don't vaccinate sides are equally valid, which is why I chose to get vaccinated (second shot next week). I think we'd be better off if more people made that choice.

What I won't do is throw people under the bus who choose differently than me. I won't demonize the Other because they've come to a different conclusion. I won't assume they are less moral than I am, or stupider, or less empathetic to their fellow man. And I will stand up for people who are treated that way, and have their motivations unjustifiably maligned, particularly when I know I do worse things every single day than people who are choosing not to get vaccinated. I'm not going to get on my moral high horse and pretend otherwhise, simply because it's fashionable to do so these days. I understand why people are angry with unvaccinated people, at least in part. But this is just a reflection of our struggles to get along with our fellow humans on other issues. We can't progress as a society until we understand and accept that many people do not view life and assess the same facts the same way we do. People are very different, and that's ultimately a good thing.

[JPhillips]

Take climate change and the Covid vaccine. Your argument is that there is no difference between dramatically changing your life in order to achieve an extremely small benefit to getting a free shot readily available all over the country that will provide meaningful protection to you and to everyone you come in contact with. The two things aren't equal.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

We're choosing to accept a risk for everyone else every time we get into a car and drive

You could not be more wrong.

100% of car accidents are preventable. 100%.

risk increases when people become irresponsible. Drinking and driving, texting, speeding, not following rules of the road, ets...

The riskier your behavior, such as not masking and not vaccinating, the more of a hazard you become.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You could not be more wrong.

100% of car accidents are preventable. 100%.

Theoretically, but not practically. You can have all well-trained drivers completely undistracted and you'd still have accidents, because drivers are people (most of them, for now) and people make mistakes, errors in judgement, etc. under even the best of conditions. A lot fewer of them of course, but not none.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

. Your argument is that there is no difference between dramatically changing your life in order to achieve an extremely small benefit to getting a free shot readily available all over the country that will provide meaningful protection to you and to everyone you come in contact with. The two things aren't equal.

That's actually not my argument. It wouldn't take a dramatic change to make a difference vis a vis climate change first of all. What it would take is a lot of people making a change of even small scale and even infinitessimal impacts will be very significant due to the time period involved in climate change. Similarly, one unvaccinated person doesn't nearly have the impact of a lot of unvaccinated people. If you have one unvaccinated person and all the people they know are vaccinated, you don't have much of a problem. The issue is reaching critical mass. In both cases, one person isn't going to affect much in the grand scheme, but groups of people affect quite a bit.

The other part of your statement, regarding the fact that the shot is free and readily available - baked into that is the assumption that getting the shot is an insignificant thing. I think this is where a big part of the divide is. Most of our society accepts getting a shot that most medical professionals recommend as being a benign thing, but some people decidedly don't and consider it a great invasion of their privacy, medical rights, bodily autonomy, etc. When we decide we don't care about that to the point where we go beyond merely saying they are wrong to calling them immoral or stupid for coming to a different conclusion is where I get off the bus.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Theoretically, but not practically. You can have all well-trained drivers completely undistracted and you'd still have accidents, because drivers are people (most of them, for now) and people make mistakes, errors in judgement, etc. under even the best of conditions.



.

exactly. Mistakes, errors in judgment, etc...all of which are preventable. 100% of car accidents are preventable...

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Theoretically, but not practically. You can have all well-trained drivers completely undistracted and you'd still have accidents, because drivers are people (most of them, for now) and people make mistakes, errors in judgement, etc. under even the best of conditions. A lot fewer of them of course, but not none.



That's actually not my argument. It wouldn't take a dramatic change to make a difference vis a vis climate change first of all. What it would take is a lot of people making a change of even small scale and even infinitessimal impacts will be very significant due to the time period involved in climate change. Similarly, one unvaccinated person doesn't nearly have the impact of a lot of unvaccinated people. If you have one unvaccinated person and all the people they know are vaccinated, you don't have much of a problem. The issue is reaching critical mass. In both cases, one person isn't going to affect much in the grand scheme, but groups of people affect quite a bit.

The other part of your statement, regarding the fact that the shot is free and readily available - baked into that is the assumption that getting the shot is an insignificant thing. I think this is where a big part of the divide is. Most of our society accepts getting a shot that most medical professionals recommend as being a benign thing, but some people decidedly don't and consider it a great invasion of their privacy, medical rights, bodily autonomy, etc. When we decide we don't care about that to the point where we go beyond merely saying they are wrong to calling them immoral or stupid for coming to a different conclusion is where I get off the bus.

Some people also like shooting guns into the air and find restrictions to be an invasion of their rights, but I find that immoral and stupid as well.

[Ghost Econ]

They're shutting down elective surgeries at the three main hospital systems in the largest metro area in SC because none have enough room for COVID patients.

[miami_fan]

https://www.newsweek.com/blood-cente...ations-1620236

We were talking about segregation earlier. I guess we have to bring back blood segregation.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

No it's not, it's far worse. Almost everyone who contracts COVID does not die. The current US fatality rate is less than 2%.

We're talking about one individual's contribution to harm. Someone does not need to die to be harmed, but also, one person can affect multiple others to varying degrees. They can be responsible for a ripple in infections that ultimately will damage someone, statistically speaking. This is where the risk to you and others comes in. An unvaxxed person is risking themselves, yes, but also others, because of how easily this spreads. The shot simply makes it harder for the virus to spread and less damaging if you get it. But the effects are not just limited to an individual.

The point about sweatshops, global warming ,etc., is that "it takes a village" to create the conditions that allow those things to flourish. Without the collective, those things don't exist. So it's not remotely comparable, and in fact, is almost the inverse of what we're talking about in terms of a single individual's ability to affect others simply by failing to take precautions to avoid spreading the virus to its maximum capability (unvaxxed, unmasked, etc.).

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

The other part of your statement, regarding the fact that the shot is free and readily available - baked into that is the assumption that getting the shot is an insignificant thing. I think this is where a big part of the divide is. Most of our society accepts getting a shot that most medical professionals recommend as being a benign thing, but some people decidedly don't and consider it a great invasion of their privacy, medical rights, bodily autonomy, etc. When we decide we don't care about that to the point where we go beyond merely saying they are wrong to calling them immoral or stupid for coming to a different conclusion is where I get off the bus.

Here's the problem with that argument. The vast majority of these people are being totally inconsistent on this point. And in my experience, nearly every person who makes this argument isn't making a well-reasoned argument that has been consistent for decades, it's ALWAYS mixed in with a "Fuck you I won't do what you tell me!" anti-government, pro-right wing slant. Until the government mandates that you get the vaccine, it's not an invasion of anything. It's what a community of people who want to get their lives back to normal do for themselves, their family, their neighbors, and *gasp* people they don't know, don't like or will never meet.

These people don't bat an eyelash when they go in for a routine medical checkup and are told to get bloodwork drawn, or that they need a hep C or tetanus booster, but all of a sudden the government suggesting a vaccine for a pandemic that's been shown to be safe for 8 months is an invasion of their "bodily autonomy"? Give me an effing break! You can dress up your opposition to it in as many ways as you can Google for excuses, it just comes down to not caring about anyone but yourself.

So yeah, if someone believes the risk from the vaccine is greater than the risk of being unvaxxed and getting/spreading Covid, then they are terrible at risk assessment. And if they think their liberty is more important that other people's health, especially when they have not objected to similar intrusions on their liberty in practically every facet of their lives, then they deserve to be called out for it.

[Flasch186]

Stylized and slicker but the same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

https://www.newsweek.com/blood-cente...ations-1620236

We were talking about segregation earlier. I guess we have to bring back blood segregation.

Simple solution. No blood transfusion for you.

[Kodos]

If we want to compare not getting vaxxed and not wearing masks to driving, the driver does not use the rules of the road. They drive drunk, they ignore stoplights, don't care about right of way, crosswalks, signaling, or driving the correct direction on a one-way street. It's "I'll drive where I like, when I like, how I like." People accept a certain level of risk when they drive, but not taking basic precautions such as following the best practices of driving raises the level of risk for everyone that you encounter.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Kodos

If we want to compare not getting vaxxed and not wearing masks to driving, the driver does not use the rules of the road. They drive drunk, they ignore stoplights, don't care about right of way, crosswalks, signaling, or driving the correct direction on a one-way street. It's "I'll drive where I like, when I like, how I like." People accept a certain level of risk when they drive, but not taking basic precautions such as following the best practices of driving raises the level of risk for everyone that you encounter.

then when they inevitably kill someone or damage their property it will be in the name of their freedom!

[molson]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

What I won't do is throw people under the bus who choose differently than me. I won't demonize the Other because they've come to a different conclusion. I won't assume they are less moral than I am, or stupider, or less empathetic to their fellow man. And I will stand up for people who are treated that way, and have their motivations unjustifiably maligned, particularly when I know I do worse things every single day than people who are choosing not to get vaccinated. I'm not going to get on my moral high horse and pretend otherwhise, simply because it's fashionable to do so these days. I understand why people are angry with unvaccinated people, at least in part. But this is just a reflection of our struggles to get along with our fellow humans on other issues. We can't progress as a society until we understand and accept that many people do not view life and assess the same facts the same way we do. People are very different, and that's ultimately a good thing.

This is some of the dumbest shit I've ever read.

(Though insisting that not getting a shot is the same as driving is probably still the dumbest)

[Brian Swartz]

All of your points apply to vaccinations as well KSyrup. Without the collective, there's nobody to spready the virus to, and if the rest of the collective is vaccinated then an individual unvaccinated can't spread the virus widely. Someone doesn't have to die to be harmed by the other examples that have been brought forth also. Etc.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by KSyrup

Here's the problem with that argument. The vast majority of these people are being totally inconsistent on this point.

So what? People are inconsistent in general. I don't hold this at all to be a good thing, I think we're all better off when we examine what we believe and behave in principled ways, but there's many aspects of human life where we simply don't do that regularly.

Originally Posted by KSyrup

These people don't bat an eyelash when they go in for a routine medical checkup and are told to get bloodwork drawn, or that they need a hep C or tetanus booster, but all of a sudden the government suggesting a vaccine for a pandemic that's been shown to be safe for 8 months is an invasion of their "bodily autonomy"?

I think you'd be surprised how many of them just plain don't do regular medical checkups etc, period, but the greater point is that when they do them, they choose whether or not to have a specific treatment and if they refuse a recommended treatment it's between them and their doctor and nobody else's business.

Just to add data to this so it doesn't degrade into anecdotal tit for tat, as of 2010 over a third of young adults (18-24) didn't visit the doctor at all in the past year. This declines over age naturally, but the overall % of the population 18+ that didn't visit the doctor at all is still 25%, and 35% of those under 18. There is a significant subset of the population that just doesn't regularly interact with the medical system.

Originally Posted by KSyrup

if someone believes the risk from the vaccine is greater than the risk of being unvaxxed and getting/spreading Covid, then they are terrible at risk assessment.

Fully agree on this point, as I've said.

Originally Posted by KSyrup

if they think their liberty is more important that other people's health, especially when they have not objected to similar intrusions on their liberty in practically every facet of their lives, then they deserve to be called out for it.

I don't think it's at all true that there are similar intrusions to their liberty in every facet of their lives. That's the missing link here.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

All of your points apply to vaccinations as well KSyrup. Without the collective, there's nobody to spready the virus to, and if the rest of the collective is vaccinated then an individual unvaccinated can't spread the virus widely. Someone doesn't have to die to be harmed by the other examples that have been brought forth also. Etc.

No no no, we're talking about those PARTICIPATING. The "collective" in terms of the potential affected population always exists in either scenario. It's those who participate in the activity and who they affect that is the difference. One person can directly affect another person in the Covid scenario. But one person cannot make a material difference in global warming or keep a single child from being employed in a sweatshop. One person getting the vaccine can make a direct difference on a micro level. Yes, the more people who get vaccinated the greater the impact overall, but in your scenarios, it's ONLY that collective impact that will have any material affect. There's no micro level impact.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

But one person cannot make a material difference in global warming or keep a single child from being employed in a sweatshop.

If I could take a shot to help both, I would. In a second. Even it had really bad side effects. Many people would. Not all. No year of my life have I been over the head harder with how many selfish shitheads there in the world. And I do try to mitigate my impact on both of those things with sacrifices that impact me about a billion times more than spending the 30 seconds to get a free shot. It's been so disheartening how little so many people are willing to do to help.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

No year of my life have I been over the head harder with how many selfish shitheads there in the world. .

You just need to grasp that not everyone thinks like you, and that is ok. Once you reach that level of enlightenment you will find them tolerable, even may have affection for them /sarcasm

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You just need to grasp that not everyone thinks like you, and that is ok. Once you reach that level of enlightenment you will find them tolerable, even may have affection for them /sarcasm

We can only someday hope to reach that level of enlightenment. This afternoon I'm going to meditate in a beautiful park to better connect with the concept of selfishness and how I can better help and sacrifice for those warriors brave enough to not be willing to lift a finger for anyone else. Lord knows it will always be our job to carry the load, as it has been since COVID started. I just need to meditate and better accept the idea that those are just our roles on this planet, and I should be thanking the selfish people for helping to keep that balance.

[Ksyrup]

I just see those as not being impacted unless there is a societal critical mass involvement, versus "get the vaccine, drastically impact the chance you get Covid and spread it to the person next to you" impact.

[Kodos]

That's not my post that you're quoting, Brian.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I think you'd be surprised how many of them just plain don't do regular medical checkups etc, period, but the greater point is that when they do them, they choose whether or not to have a specific treatment and if they refuse a recommended treatment it's between them and their doctor and nobody else's business.

Just to add data to this so it doesn't degrade into anecdotal tit for tat, as of 2010 over a third of young adults (18-24) didn't visit the doctor at all in the past year. This declines over age naturally, but the overall % of the population 18+ that didn't visit the doctor at all is still 25%, and 35% of those under 18. There is a significant subset of the population that just doesn't regularly interact with the medical system.

And that's all well and good when it's their diabetes or cholesterol, etc., that doesn't directly impact anyone else's health. But that's not the situation here. And similar to the other discussion of collective impacts, sure, there is a societal cost to all of the people who let their health go that we end up paying, but that's more financial in the end and doesn't directly impact someone else's health (although you could certainly make the case against smoking with kids...).

I don't think it's at all true that there are similar intrusions to their liberty in every facet of their lives. That's the missing link here.

It's not the missing link. It's just that you disagree. And that's fine, but you're ignoring reality. No one is being forced to do anything by the government. So it's not actually an intrusion of liberty at all. It's simply choosing to put yourself before others. And that's exactly why those people are being called out for it.

[cuervo72]

I haven't gone to the doctor in a good long while. I did get the shots though when the county set up a vax site at the local community college. It had nothing to do at all with "interact[ing] with the medical system."

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by molson

We can only someday hope to reach that level of enlightenment. This afternoon I'm going to meditate in a beautiful park to better connect with the concept of selfishness and how I can better help and sacrifice for those warriors brave enough to not be willing to lift a finger for anyone else. Lord knows it will always be our job to carry the load, as it has been since COVID started

Good grief. Nobody has suggested they are 'brave warriors'. Nobody's even said they are above criticism - I've said I think they're wrong myself. How many times do I need to say it how many ways?

What I have also said is that it's not justified to presume their motivations and intelligence based on their opinions. To that end, here's some more inconvenient data; those who don't want the vaccine follow a U-pattern in terms of educational breakdown. It won't surprise many here that those who didn't get any education past high school are near the top in rates of refusal - but even a slightly greater percentage of PHds don't want the vaccine. It's not just the idiots who have come to that conclusion.

[Brian Swartz]

Thank you Kodos, I apologize for having the wrong person listed. Corrected now I hope.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Good grief. Nobody has suggested they are 'brave warriors'. Nobody's even said they are above criticism - I've said I think they're wrong myself. How many times do I need to say it how many ways?

You've been portraying yourself as some kind of enlightened justice warrior for standing up for the beleaguered and unfairly judged anti-vaxxers.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

This is some of the dumbest shit I've ever read.

(Though insisting that not getting a shot is the same as driving is probably still the dumbest)

It's some galaxy brain stuff. That line of thinking means you can't judge the guy who downs a bottle of vodka and goes out cruising because it's fun. Or the grown man who wants to date a 12 year old because he's in love.

How dare we get on our high horse and look down on those people because it is fashionable.

I can't tell if it's just some weird-ass libertarian crap or a tribalistic defense because it's a right-winger being maligned.

[Flasch186]

It's just slick and synthetic "Both Sides" ism.... BS spins facts, conflates data, and makes insane comparisons on the guise of being intellectual, to whit, you can't know what a person's motivations are except their words (except we have video and audio evidence to the contrary) while ignoring the contrarian information we receive. SMH, it's just about deflection, distraction, and confusion under a guise. I see through it... we all do. You cannot be changed so what is the point? Literal data is shat upon, evidence ignored (video/audio of people undermining their stated curated motivations), and squirrel intentions. Ridiculous waste of time and absolutely contrived.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Good grief. Nobody has suggested they are 'brave warriors'. Nobody's even said they are above criticism - I've said I think they're wrong myself. How many times do I need to say it how many ways?

What I have also said is that it's not justified to presume their motivations and intelligence based on their opinions. To that end, here's some more inconvenient data; those who don't want the vaccine follow a U-pattern in terms of educational breakdown. It won't surprise many here that those who didn't get any education past high school are near the top in rates of refusal - but even a slightly greater percentage of PHds don't want the vaccine. It's not just the idiots who have come to that conclusion.

As an advanced degree holder working in a profession where everyone has an advanced degree, let e assure you that there are plenty of PhDs who are fucking idiots.

[thesloppy]

If Brian actually believed any of that shit he would happily bask in all the individual opinions being expressed here, rather than continually grinding them into dust. Brian's respect for opinions only extends to hypothetical people that are invented to counter whatever someone/anyone else is talking about.

[Brian Swartz]

That might be a separate way of looking at this. When you say moron or idiot what do you mean? The research I'm familiar with says that someone of low intelligence isn't capable of reaching that level. This is why, for example, the military has a minimum intelligence required because below a certain level you can't be reliably trained to perform even basic tasks competently.

How would you measurably define someone as an idiot? Maybe people in this thread are calling their fellow citizens idiot and moron and mean something different by it than a person of low intelligence, or define intelligence in different ways than I'm familiar with.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Brian's respect for opinions only extends to hypothetical people that are invented to counter whatever someone/anyone else is talking about.

Not at all. I've been very clear about the distinction I'm making. It's not that opinions can't be criticized. They can and should be, and I take no umbrage with those who have criticized me - btw, it's absolutely hilarious that you take me to task when basically the whole board is aligned against me on this issue, and say that I am the one grinding the opinions of others into dust. What I object to is going beyond that to the personal attacks.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I can't tell if it's just some weird-ass libertarian crap or a tribalistic defense because it's a right-winger being maligned.

As previously mentioned, it's not possible for me to be 'defending the right' on this issue because it's not just right-wingers. Latest version of the poll previously discussed came out a couple weeks ago, and guess what? The numbers haven't moved much. Almost half of the unvaccinated are not Republicans. Over 40% of those who say they're definitely not getting the vaccine aren't. Two-thirds aren't everyone's favorite group to punch in the face, white evangelicals. Etc.

Ironically, if I were to take the approach of 'stop picking on the right' and chose this as my issue to do it with, people would be very justified in accusing me of distorting facts/data, because a large part of the people I am defending aren't on the right.

I'm far more concerned about the impact on society. When this pandemic has come and gone and whatever status quo settles in has occurred, there will still be other issues. There always are. There will always, always, always be a minority that bucks the view of the majority. How we treat that minority says more about what us as a society than the issues which cause the division.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

When you say moron or idiot what do you mean?

Someone who refuses to take 5 minutes out of their day to virtually eliminate a danger of severe illness, and to protect those around them, is a moron.

Easy starting point for me. The longer we go the simpler this is.

They're in the same category as people who think they drive better drunk. Also morons. I'm not interested in validating any of their opinions or presuming that they have just the best intentions at heart and that I'm not allowed to question that. They all fucking suck.

[Brian Swartz]

So moron then = people who make decisions that we detest. Under that definition, I'd agree that the unvaccinated are morons. Of course, I'd have to loop a non-trivial set of people that I've had the pleasure to know, and some amount of the posters on this board, into that group as well. I'd also have to call myself one, as I've done a number of things in my life I detest. I'd be more impressed as I think about this, to be able to name people who haven't been morons at one point or another.

[molson]

Not even close to my definition, which was very narrow.

[Brian Swartz]

I stand corrected. Would it be an accurate statement of your point then that those who aren't vaccinated and/or drive drunk are morons, and all people who don't do those things aren't?

[sterlingice]

Anyone have the number for Goalpost Movers, Inc?

SI

[GrantDawg]

I now personally know 4 anti-vaccers, anti-maskers that are very sick right now with Covid. One I am really worried about is in his 70's. I talked to his son last week who has it as well, and he gave me the "we are going to be fine. It's just a flu." I talked to his wife today, and they are both bedridden and they are afraid the dad is going to have to go the hospital if he doesn't improve. *sigh*

[Ksyrup]

I've seen a bunch of these memes lately (one of the Beatles + Yoko with Yoko labeled the Delta Variant), but I thought this one was clever.

my fall plans the delta variant pic.twitter.com/CnHIRoA8QV

— Loudwire (@Loudwire) August 19, 2021

[JPhillips]

This is going well.

At least 10,384 students are in quarantine across the Hillsborough County Public School District in Florida.

[Ksyrup]

That's about double from when I posted a few days ago. 5600 on Tuesday.

[Lathum]

I met up with a friend yesterday who is very anti-mask in school. He and his wife go to the BOE meetings, etc...When I asked him about what is happening in TX and Fla and why he thinks it won't happen here he really didn't have an answer.

It amazes me how people can't see whats happening in other school districts and still want to send the kids unmasked.

[miked]

I have a friend in Florida who says all her Trumper friends are taking Ivermectin to either fight COVID or prevent it. That's right, people are wary of sticking themselves with needles full of "experimental vaccines" but are perfectly willing to take anti-parasitic dog medicine. You really can't fix this level of stupid.

[Ghost Econ]

The g
Trump acolyte I posted about a couple of days ago who is leading the takeover of the SC GOP died from Covid this morning.

At least he died the way he lived, as a fucking idiot.

South Carolina Tea Party Leader Succumbs To Covid-19 - FITSNews

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

The g
Trump acolyte I posted about a couple of days ago who is leading the takeover of the SC GOP died from Covid this morning.

At least he died the way he lived, as a fucking idiot.

South Carolina Tea Party Leader Succumbs To Covid-19 - FITSNews

I'm still shocked that some of these political leaders really are unvaxxed. I just figure that they all get secretly vaxxed while still riding the political wave of saying that they are unvaxxed.

But some of them really do seem to be getting high on their own supply and actually literally refusing to get vaxxed themselves.

Amazing.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

The g
Trump acolyte I posted about a couple of days ago who is leading the takeover of the SC GOP died from Covid this morning.

At least he died the way he lived, as a fucking idiot.

South Carolina Tea Party Leader Succumbs To Covid-19 - FITSNews

They're blaming the hospitals and encouraging their followers to avoid hospitals at all costs.

I concur.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

They're blaming the hospitals and encouraging their followers to avoid hospitals at all costs.

I concur.

I hope they heed that advice.