WW LXXXVII Terror at the University :Game over, Wolves win!

[Telle]

Votes as of post #850:

3 - RPI-Fan - Hannibal (719), Barkeep (730), Abe Sargent (811)
3 - Grammaticus - Telle (814), jeheinze (816), DaddyTorgo (836)
2 - Hannibal - Chief Rum (723), jeff061 (822)
1 - jeheinz - Grammaticus (772)

Yet to vote: RPI Fan, Danny

[DaddyTorgo]

well we can probably presume that RPI will vote for Gram out of self-preservation

[DaddyTorgo]

maybe gram's been quiet cuz he just wants to get it over with?

[Telle]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well we can probably presume that RPI will vote for Gram out of self-preservation

If he does vote.. he's missed the past two votes.

[DaddyTorgo]

good point

[Lathum]

3 - RPI-Fan - Hannibal (719), Barkeep (730), Abe Sargent (811)
3 - Grammaticus - Telle (814), jeheinze (816), DaddyTorgo (836)
2 - Hannibal - Chief Rum (723), jeff061 (822)
1 - jeheinz - Grammaticus (772)


thanks to Telle for keeping track, I am trying to check in between classes.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Telle

If he does vote.. he's missed the past two votes.

i'm never upset about voting for an absent player

[Abe Sargent]

I guess there's not been much to say since Day One so I've been quiet (to answer some questioning if I've been utr this game). Like I mentioned earlier, my votes on Days two and three were just follow the leader. Today, BK made a good case for RPI, reminding me about the pm thing plus the not being here thing, so again, ftl. Not much else to do I guess.

[jeff061]

You should probably keep reading. There are better cases not to vote for RPI, detailed by DT.

I'm not to interested in going over it all again though.

[Abe Sargent]

Oh, and don;t give me too much credit for my Day One vote by being the second to cast a vote on him, and the first to cast a second vote on anyone. It was just a crap shoot and I was lucky. I wasn;t even here to push for EF's lynch that day post reveal, and believe me, I would have pushed hard for it. Don't give me too much credit for it. I was just someone voting for a reason because I saw the tiniest spark of something there in his post, but nothing major, and nothing that out of the ordinary. It was just luck until he revealed, then I suspected he was faking it.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by jeff061

You should probably keep reading. There are better cases not to vote for RPI, detailed by DT.

I'm not to interested in going over it all again though.

What, we wait until day 5 or 6 because that's when he becomes a problem (assuming Janitor)? That's silly. Every one has said that RPI is likely the janitor, but could, possibly, be the last wolf. I submit there is a better chance that rpi is the wolf than any other candidate you can give me.

[jeheinz72]

Cue Jeff voting for Abe in...3...2...1...

[jeff061]

Hehe. It's too late for more of that. And he doesn't actual appear to be actively fighting it, which annoyed me since it could snowball into a misguided movement.

[jeff061]

Oh I missed his last post.

He's still wrong and people disappoint me. But like I said it's late and I've given up on people thinking logically.

[jeheinz72]

Still, it worries me when people basically ignore the game itself because people disagree with the strategy. I mean you've basically said you don't actually think I'm a wolf or Hannibal's a wolf but you'll vote for us just because we don't agree with how you strategically view the gameplay going forward.

[jeff061]

I believe I said neither of you have gained my trust, I didn't say neither of you are wolves.

All things being more or less equal I am less inclined to vote for active players, which is my positive view.

[jeff061]

Also, by disreguarding the correct strategy. Which in my opinion there is no argument against the two in question, you are directly harming the villagers. I balance that with everything.

That's my opinion on the matter..

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Chances are you are a villager.

In response to me

Jus' sayin man.

You can say my POV is illogical, and that's fine. But it's just as illogical for you to vote for a villager.

But we'll do it your way. But I'm hoping the coming days provide a better open mind to discussion or we'll surely lose and I'm going to at some point wonder why you don't want people to vote for RPI so badly.

[jeff061]

Christ man, At least quote the whole post, I pretty much said chances are EVERYONE's a villager. For the lpve of god people.

[jeff061]

I should rephrase that, no matter who you lynch chances are its a villager. That's what I said. Please don't misrepresent me.

Except for RPI, who is most likely a Janitor who can't hurt us, yet gives us more days as long as he's alive.

[jeheinz72]

Well that was direct to me, the rest didn't pertain to what I was talking about.

And putting it that way just further proves my point but whatever man, you've made up your mind

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I should rephrase that, no matter who you lynch chances are its a villager. That's what I said. Please don't misrepresent me.

Except for RPI, who is most likely a Janitor who can't hurt us, yet gives us more days as long as he's alive.

Presuming he's actually the janitor and not ya know that wolf we're looking for...

[jeff061]

Which is why you lynch him on the last day and don't complety ignore him. Just stop please, you people are not right . There is no argument you'll have that there isn't a counter for.

[jeff061]

Bout to head out so...

unvote Hannibal
vote Gramm

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Which is why you lynch him on the last day and don't complety ignore him. Just stop please, you people are not right . There is no argument you'll have that there isn't a counter for.

No, because then what happens if he's nothing? What if he's just some fool who didn't know how to read a PM? Or who tried to be all clever for no good reason (we've seen that some this game already ya know. Heck, I've never played with the guy, maybe he has no idea how to play, heck if I know)

So your plan is all fine and dandy unless that *other* 20% hits and he's just a horrible horrible villager and our last-shot game-saving lynch is actually the one that COSTS us the game.

But hey man, ok, we'll do it your way.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

No, because then what happens if he's nothing? What if he's just some fool who didn't know how to read a PM? Or who tried to be all clever for no good reason (we've seen that some this game already ya know. Heck, I've never played with the guy, maybe he has no idea how to play, heck if I know)

So your plan is all fine and dandy unless that *other* 20% hits and he's just a horrible horrible villager and our last-shot game-saving lynch is actually the one that COSTS us the game.

But hey man, ok, we'll do it your way.

Well wouldn't lynching him now be just as much of a waste of a lynch then?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Telle

I'm curious as to why Grammaticus hasn't said anything, considering he's now tied for first place in the votes.

What do you want me to say Telle. I've posted a good bit on several issues and like magic the three people I listed as suspicious moved their votes to me. I don't have any more to say really.

Unfortunately we lost the ability to check the seers roommates by not guarding the seer. Tha would have either cleared the room or gave us sure thing out of the two roomies. I say go with one of those roomates and I think heinz is the best one to go with.

[Grammaticus]

P.S.

Do you have anything to offer Telle?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Telle

Well wouldn't lynching him now be just as much of a waste of a lynch then?

Not really. If we err now, the error is on a MUCH smaller scale. We've lynched 2 of 3 people we actually need to lynch already, losing minimal numbers. Worst case, we lynch him, he's a villager, they off Danny and we've still got a 7:1:1 ratio going forward. Best case, it's game over. Middle case, it's 8:1 and no janitor to worry ourselves with.

Or we wait to lynch him when it's 3:1:1, he's nothing and we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or he's the janitor and it's 2:1 heading into the last day, which is a veritable coin-flip we've all seen go both ways.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

What do you want me to say Telle. I've posted a good bit on several issues and like magic the three people I listed as suspicious moved their votes to me. I don't have any more to say really.

Unfortunately we lost the ability to check the seers roommates by not guarding the seer. Tha would have either cleared the room or gave us sure thing out of the two roomies. I say go with one of those roomates and I think heinz is the best one to go with.

In my defense, my initial vote for HL was self-defense. You were actually my top candidate all along, aside from RPI who I'm apparently not allowed to vote for.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

maybe gram's been quiet cuz he just wants to get it over with?

Actually, at work. When you see me in queue, I'm not always looking at the screen, its in the background. Sometimes I will go to my home page then back button to the queue. Just depends on what is going on.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

In my defense, my initial vote for HL was self-defense. You were actually my top candidate all along, aside from RPI who I'm apparently not allowed to vote for.

It is amazing how you become a top candidate of the person you vote

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

It is amazing how you become a top candidate of the person you vote

Meh. I think I've played enough games to show I"m not a vengeful voter. It's really not a villager or wolf-beneficial strategy to ever be one.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Meh. I think I've played enough games to show I"m not a vengeful voter. It's really not a villager or wolf-beneficial strategy to ever be one.

I don't think vengeful is the word. I think you are just worried you would get some interest. You realize that your dorm room is probably a pretty good option for us to look at and you see me as someone who was putting a little heat on you.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you and Telle are the wolf and janitor. Not sure which role for each. But either way, at this point in the game it would be best for the student to clean out your room now while we have the numbers. It is really just good sound game management. Just like guarding the seer would have been good game management. No point in trying to complete a long pass when you are ahead by two scores in the 4th quarter.

Unfortunately the student body is looking like they are more willing to go for a long shot rather than manage our lead well. I’m 100% a vanilla student. You will gain nothing by killing me. No wolf and no valuable information. You will only remove a voice that is questioning you and Telle and DaddyTorgo…….

[jeheinz72]

People invariably think I'm a wolf because I post a lot and I'm not afraid to speak my opinion. That and when I'm lying, I'm a good liar (see sig). So no, drawing suspicion is never something I've worried about.

If people want to lynch me fine, but it's not going to help.

[jeheinz72]

I'm outta here. See you folks tomorrow.

[Barkeep49]

I maintain voting for RPI is the correct move. Heinz has stated my reasons for it quite eloquently. And throw in the added bonus of voting out someone who has been inactive and you've got a winner.

On a different note, what's the case for general trust on Jeff?

[Grammaticus]

I don't have any real level of trust for Jeff. But no reason to be suspicious either.

I don't mind switching to RPI. At this point it would make a tie. That would force someone to make a move. Maybe we can get something out of that. Since I am on the block, self preservation and shedding some light on the RPI janitor angle will actually get us something of value as well.

UNVOTE HEINZ

VOTE RPI

[Barkeep49]

Anyone have reason for Jeff trust? I ask because his voting pattern today reeks. It smells to me of a wolf trying to find a safe habor.

[Danny]

I just thought of something. The wolves are coming after me, I will not be protecting myself tonight. However, as what happened with EF, I can send in an order to guard someone we suspect is a wolf to hopefully prevent them from making their kill. If we figure out a strategy of one person to lynch, one for me to guard, that would be great. Then, if I wind up dead, the person I am guarding must not be the 3rd wolf.

[Danny]

I am leaning towards voting RPI-Fan and then putting a guard order on Jeheinz and we can clear this up.

I feel really bad about the protect yesterday, but maybe we can get in a scan another way.

[Danny]

4 - Grammaticus - Telle (814), jeheinze (816), DaddyTorgo (836), Jeff (874)
3 - RPI-Fan - Hannibal (719), Barkeep (730), Abe Sargent (811)
1 - Hannibal - Chief Rum (723),
1 - jeheinz - Grammaticus (772)

Updated vote count. Obviously I will not be voting RPI unless there are other switches. Personally I think we should vote out RPI and then I will protect (scan) another player that we decide upon.

[Danny]

However that strategy may give the wolves too much time to know who I am going to protect and alter their kill if they know I am protecting a wolf.

what I can do is put my order in and then post who I protected after the deadline, but before Lathum processes the day.

[DaddyTorgo]

danny - as long as you don't guard barkeep i think you're alright. You don't want to publicize who you're guarding in case that's the wolf and they just hold off on a night kill to try to buy trust...you want until deadline and then tell us then, when it's too late for them to change their action but before they potentially kill you.

*sigh* i don't understand this sub-optimal play to vote off RPI. It's moronic frankly.

[Danny]

By altering their kill I mean potentially going with a non kill as that could set up my protect for a fake of the person. Hmmm, I'm almost faking myself out now :P.

Either way, I will be protecting someone I suspect could be a wolf and will make sure to announce it before the results are posted.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

danny - as long as you don't guard barkeep i think you're alright. You don't want to publicize who you're guarding in case that's the wolf and they just hold off on a night kill to try to buy trust...you want until deadline and then tell us then, when it's too late for them to change their action but before they potentially kill you.

*sigh* i don't understand this sub-optimal play to vote off RPI. It's moronic frankly.

Why is the play not optimal? I actually skimmed through everything from today really fast.

[Danny]

Vote RPI

I have my reasoning which I will explain later.

[DaddyTorgo]

because if RPI is the janitor we actually want to keep him alive, and if he is the wolf we have many days before we have to kill him. and as stated, the odds seem to indicate he's more likely the janitor than the last wolf

[Telle]

Votes as of post 898:
5 - RPI-Fan - Hannibal (719), Barkeep (730), Abe Sargent (811), Grammaticus (888), Danny (897)
4 - Grammaticus - Telle (814), jeheinze (816), DaddyTorgo (836), jeff061 (874)
1 - Hannibal - Chief Rum (723)

[DaddyTorgo]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr