POTUS 2016 General Election Discussion Thread

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

...IMO it's lip service and upon election, Hillary will go right back to doing Hill things.

This might as well be her epitaph. This simple statement encapsulates everything that is wrong with her.

Ah the old ambitious Hillary trope. Good to see you again.

[albionmoonlight]

Does it matter that Trump just specifically asked Russia to hack classified United States documents and release them publicly?

My sense is that it won't because (1) he can play it off as a joke if needed and (2) Clinton does not have strong moral authority on classified information because of the email scandal.

But it is still JULY and we already have one candidate asking foreign governments to attack the United States to help him win the election. How the hell will we make it to November?

[rjolley]

I think Trump's goal has been to get the notoriety from running, but not actually win the election. He's been saying and doing things to get kicked out of the race, but it's backfired and he's actually picking up more and more followers.

So, joking or not, he's getting coverage and that's all he cares about getting.

[Neuqua]

While they're at it, they can hack into his tax returns too.

[larrymcg421]

Trump is encouraging a foreign government to hack US secrets, says he will "overturn" the gay marriage decision, wants to ban people based on their religion, wants to build a wall to keep immigrants out, wants to bring back waterboarding and "worse", but Hillary is basically the same, so I'm voting for Jill Stein.

[molson]

The sentiment I've seen from the angry far left on my facebook wall and on reddit is that they "tried to do things the positive way", and now they've been cheated out of that, they'd rather burn everything down in a negative way, via Trump (either by direct vote or vote for a third party if they want to support Stein whatever), than have Clinton as president. I saw one guy say he'd take a Trump-led nuclear war over a Clinton presidency.

[nol]

Originally Posted by molson

on my facebook wall and on reddit

Nice real world you interact with.



for comparison's sake:



From a sheer numbers perspective, there are more Trump supporters who are against the Emancipation Proclamation than there are Bernie supporters willing to vote for Trump, but in the word of 'gotta hear both sides' the two sides are completely equivalent.

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Oh yeah I didn't mean that to come across as critical of you. It was directed at the people you were talking about.

Not sure about that. Once you get to the point of relying on views cherrypicked from random subreddits you're just seeking out a strawman.

[cuervo72]

...at least our angry, disaffected young men aren't killing priests??

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

The sentiment I've seen from the angry far left on my facebook wall and on reddit is that they "tried to do things the positive way", and now they've been cheated out of that, they'd rather burn everything down in a negative way, via Trump (either by direct vote or vote for a third party if they want to support Stein whatever), than have Clinton as president. I saw one guy say he'd take a Trump-led nuclear war over a Clinton presidency.

And I bet you almost all of them are privileged, white Hipsters who won't suffer the worst consequences of a Trump presidency. It's easy to ask for things to be blown up when you know you won't be in the blast radius.

[molson]

I did describe them as the "angry far left". And other polls reflect that anger, especially when the polls focus on younger people.

Poll: Nearly half of Sanders' millennial supporters would vote third-party | TheHill

I don't think that will impact November much, since a lot of these young people didn't even bother to vote at all in the primaries and won't bother in November either. There is a loud "burn it all down" sentiment among some of these young people, but I think for the vast majority of them, that sentiment doesn't go any further than yelling at people online.

[larrymcg421]

Oh yeah I didn't mean that to come across as critical of you. It was directed at the people you were talking about.

I do think it is interesting that the demographics of Hillary's strongest supporters are generally the people who would be most impacted by a Trump victory, and the demographics of the "Let Trump win, fuck the world" group would be least impacted by a Trump presidency.

[Kodos]

What whiny little bitches disappointed Sanders supporters can be...

[tarcone]

Kodos, tell us about Pence

[Butter]

Originally Posted by molson

I did describe them as the "angry far left". And other polls reflect that anger, especially when the polls focus on younger people.

Poll: Nearly half of Sanders' millennial supporters would vote third-party | TheHill

I don't think that will impact November much, since a lot of these young people didn't even bother to vote at all in the primaries and won't bother in November either. There is a loud "burn it all down" sentiment among some of these young people, but I think for the vast majority of them, that sentiment doesn't go any further than yelling at people online.

Would be interested in seeing this after the convention.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

...at least our angry, disaffected young men aren't killing priests??

Yours?

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Oh yeah I didn't mean that to come across as critical of you. It was directed at the people you were talking about.

I do think it is interesting that the demographics of Hillary's strongest supporters are generally the people who would be most impacted by a Trump victory, and the demographics of the "Let Trump win, fuck the world" group would be least impacted by a Trump presidency.

Who knows what Trump really wants to or can do, but I think the millennial group might be the most impacted (for better or worse, I guess). For one, changes in Obama care will deeply impact the under 25 and non-employee insured. Also, lack of student loan restructuring and min wage hikes. Perhaps biggest would be mass deportation, both Latin America and overstayed visas.

it all reminds me of this:

Richard Vernon: You just bought yourself another Saturday.
John Bender: Ooh, I'm crushed.
Richard Vernon: You just bought one more.
John Bender: Well I'm free the Saturday after that. Beyond that, I'm going to have to check my calendar.
Richard Vernon: Good, cause it's going to be filled. We'll keep going. You want another one? Just say the word say it. Instead of going to prison you'll come here. Are you through?
John Bender: No.
Richard Vernon: I'm doing society a favor.
John Bender: So?
Richard Vernon: That's another one right now! I've got you for the rest of your natural born life if you don't watch your step. You want another one?
John Bender: Yes.
Richard Vernon: You got it! You got another one right there! That's another one

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Yours?

American. The Bernie Bro variety, anyway.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

And I bet you almost all of them are privileged, white Hipsters who won't suffer the worst consequences of a Trump presidency. It's easy to ask for things to be blown up when you know you won't be in the blast radius.

Yep. They'll be fine. Their black, LGBT and Muslim brothers and sisters on the other hand...

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by AENeuman

Who knows what Trump really wants to or can do, but I think the millennial group might be the most impacted (for better or worse, I guess).

Oh, they'll be impacted, but it won't be a disaster as it is for others.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Kodos, tell us about Pence

I'd love to, but live in Connecticut.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'd love to, but live in Connecticut.

So, what then? You're too good to use your alien-on-high vantage point to look at another state?

[larrymcg421]

So this happened...

Trump urges Russia to hack Clinton's email - POLITICO

[mckerney]

And this

@MareikeAden
I asked @realDonaldTrump:"Would you as president want to recognize #Crimea as Russian, lift sanctions?" - "Yes we would be looking at that"

[Atocep]

So Putin/Russia good. Erdogan good. Muslims bad. Mexicans bad.

I'm sure I'm missing some.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Atocep

So Putin/Russia good. Erdogan good. Muslims bad. Mexicans bad.

I'm sure I'm missing some.

Saddam law and order tactics good.

[EagleFan]

#NeverClintrump We don't need a criminal and we don't need a con man.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

What public office has she won other than her senate seat? And did she break a lot of promises after she won it?

You're right. That is the only one. In a state she handpicked to set herself up in because she knew it was a Dem and Bill Clinton stronghold. And the one notable achievement she apparently made as senator was to vote for the Iraq war.

Interesting that we would hand that person the most powerful position in the government. Can't wait.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by digamma

Ah the old ambitious Hillary trope. Good to see you again.

Shoe fits...

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You're right. That is the only one. In a state she handpicked to set herself up in because she knew it was a Dem and Bill Clinton stronghold. And the one notable achievement she apparently made as senator was to vote for the Iraq war.

Interesting that we would hand that person the most powerful position in the government. Can't wait.

So she has won one election in her life. So why is the idea of her flipping her position after winning an election going on her tombstone? That's what I'm missing.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

So she has won one election in her life. So why is the idea of her flipping her position after winning an election going on her tombstone? That's what I'm missing.

2, technically. Election and re-Election to the Senate. 1 less than Barack Obama when he became President (election and re-election to the Illinois State Senate and then election to US Senate), and the same as George W. Bush prior to becoming President (election and re-election as Governor of Texas).

But yeah, it's another double standard.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

2, technically. Election and re-Election to the Senate. 1 less than Barack Obama when he became President (election and re-election to the Illinois State Senate and then election to US Senate), and the same as George W. Bush prior to becoming President (election and re-election as Governor of Texas).

But yeah, it's another double standard.

Oh, I'm with you. There are reasons to criticize Clinton, but under-qualified is laughable. I was just responding to this idea that she has a history of changing her positions after elections when she actually has only had one opportunity to do so.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Oh, I'm with you. There are reasons to criticize Clinton, but under-qualified is laughable. I was just responding to this idea that she has a history of changing her positions after elections when she actually has only had one opportunity to do so.

I know. I was just deflecting the other upcoming charge that was undoubtedly going to result from indicating that she had 2 election victories.

[larrymcg421]

And she was still a pretty liberal Senator. People act like she was a Ben Nelson blue dog or she did a complete 180 on her campaign promises. Not true at all.

And ironically, Hillary's platform is far closer to what she would actually get done than Bernie's platform is to what he would get done. And it's not even close.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Atocep

So Putin/Russia good. Erdogan good. Muslims bad. Mexicans bad.

I'm sure I'm missing some.

Chinese response to Tienanmen good.

[corbes]

So does the thing with Russia move the needle for any Trump supporters here? Or do we hate each other more than we care about national security?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

So she has won one election in her life. So why is the idea of her flipping her position after winning an election going on her tombstone? That's what I'm missing.

The concept of her flipping her position to suit whatever best fits her political ambitions is a well discussed notion, and you know it. When she is President, she won't do what is good for the people. She will do what is politically expedient and which will help her get re-elected in 2020.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The concept of her flipping her position to suit whatever best fits her political ambitions is a well discussed notion, and you know it. When she is President, she won't do what is good for the people. She will do what is politically expedient and which will help her get re-elected in 2020.

Wouldn't that mean that she at least did right by a majority of people that vote?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by corbes

So does the thing with Russia move the needle for any Trump supporters here? Or do we hate each other more than we care about national security?

I'd be shocked if it moved anything at all. I'd rather see Putin in the WH than HRC or Obama for that matter.

Probably wouldn't mind him there instead of Trump either frankly.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Wouldn't that mean that she at least did right by a majority of people that vote?

I hope you're just being flippant here.

There's a reason we're not a direct democracy - catering to whims of the mob is like catering to a whining child. Neither stops to consider the repercussions of getting what they want. They want their instant gratification, damn everyone else.

A real leader has to make hard decisions that can potentially piss a lot of people off, but is necessary for the future stability of the people they lead (and accept the fact that sometimes, they're dead ass wrong). A real leader sticks to their convictions, re-election and the size of their lobbyists wallets be damned (and again, can accept the fact that sometimes, they're gonna be dead ass wrong). Neither Hillary nor Trump (nor pretty much any modern politician) fits the bill.

[JPhillips]

It was more a way of stating that doing the right thing has different meanings for different people. Just as an extreme example, how do you think Jon and I define the right thing?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd be shocked if it moved anything at all. I'd rather see Putin in the WH than HRC or Obama for that matter.

Probably wouldn't mind him there instead of Trump either frankly.

LOL

[molson]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I hope you're just being flippant here.

There's a reason we're not a direct democracy - catering to whims of the mob is like catering to a whining child. Neither stops to consider the repercussions of getting what they want. They want their instant gratification, damn everyone else.

A real leader has to make hard decisions that can potentially piss a lot of people off, but is necessary for the future stability of the people they lead (and accept the fact that sometimes, they're dead ass wrong). A real leader sticks to their convictions, re-election and the size of their lobbyists wallets be damned (and again, can accept the fact that sometimes, they're gonna be dead ass wrong). Neither Hillary nor Trump (nor pretty much any modern politician) fits the bill.

On the other hand, someone who refuses to compromise their vision, and who thinks that their one way of looking at things is inherently correct and that everyone else is beneath them wouldn't make a very effective president.

[Butter]

Biden killed it. I would've voted and volunteered for him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

On the other hand, someone who refuses to compromise their vision, and who thinks that their one way of looking at things is inherently correct and that everyone else is beneath them wouldn't make a very effective president.

Once again, I've never understood the fascination with people who don't believe they're right.

If you think you're wrong then why are you holding position X in the first place?

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Once again, I've never understood the fascination with people who don't believe they're right.

If you think you're wrong then why are you holding position X in the first place?

It's not so much believing you're right, as it being willing to compromise some of your values in the furtherance of others. Which takes a certain amount of pragmatism to at least acknowledge that there's other valid opinions on things.

But I think it's also possible to recognize that on most issues, there's people out there smarter than you (or more experienced in a particular area) that think you're wrong.

[Edward64]

Bloomberg has credibility in attacking Trump's business acumen.

Looking forward to Trump's reply.

[RainMaker]

Bloomberg and Cuban are actual billionaires unlike Trump.

[Easy Mac]

I find this strategy intriguing. Most of the primetime DNC has been used to build up and soften Hillary, so you run out Bloomberg, who is essentially a better Trump, to do the attacking from an"independent" point of view.

[Edward64]

Hillary is the "sane" choice ... is he saying that Donald is insane?

[Easy Mac]

Yes, he is saying that.