Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Good man!! I'm looking forward to Friday. I've been in a rut gaming and I'm hoping Next Gen will spark my inner geek again!

Oh - BTW, this is the first time the Brown have been a favorite to your Black and yellow pin strip team in 10 year!!

Yeah, the season is killing me because everytime I'm ready for us to start dropping games for a better draft pick we manage to win and give a glimmer of mediocrity.

[MizzouRah]

I'm anxious to hear about the xb1.. so those of you getting one release day, get those impressions up!

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Microsoft doesn't care about Asia because Asia doesn't care about Microsoft. They tried pretty hard with the last generation, and failed miserably anyway. It doesn't surprise me they aren't putting out a big effort this time around.

True. Sony and Nintendo just have an iron grip in this part of the world.

Looking forward for the December release of the PS4 here. I might check prices, if it gets a bit expensive, I'll probably ask my cousin to buy me one from California.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Lots of reviews of the X1 so far. Pretty consistent chorus that it's a promising system, but most wonder if MS can deliver on all it's promises. See quite a bit of complaints about the universal TV interface and Kinect not working as advertised. Here's a good thread over at Neogaf if you're looking for a bunch of reviews in one place. The Kotaku one does a great job of testing out all the features.

Xbox One Hardware/UI Review Thread - NeoGAF

And as for the Kinect, this video appears to be a pretty good summation of where the Kinect software stands right now. It's there, but pretty erratic at best.



Another IGN video showing an unedited view of the system. Voice commands really have some issues at this point.

Xbox One Uncut Demo - IGN Video

[cartman]

And here's a review from PC Magazine that seems to say that the voice commands work well:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2420311,00.asp

PROS
Voice controls work remarkably well. TV and OneGuide integration is seamless. Skype, facial recognition, and other features are useful and polished. Stronger launch game lineup than Sony PlayStation 4.
CONS
More expensive than the competition. Requires an Xbox Live Gold subscription for most features. Gesture controls don't work consistently. PS4's DualShock 4 is a better controller.
BOTTOM LINE
Microsoft didn't just make a new game system with the Xbox One, it made a comprehensive gaming and home-entertainment hub you can control with your voice. Be prepared to pay a lot for all of these features, but it's money well spent.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

And here's a review from PC Magazine that seems to say that the voice commands work well:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2420311,00.asp

Watch that uncut demo of the interface and you tell me how well it works. You don't even have to watch all 23-some minutes. Five minutes will show you all you need to see.

Also, I'm assuming they didn't test Kinect nearly enough judging from the videos being posted on the internet thus far. Watch that video I posted from IGN about facial recognition and see how 'polished' it is.

[cartman]

To be honest, MBBF, zero minutes of a video would show you all you need to see.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

To be honest, MBBF, zero minutes of a video would show you all you need to see.

Just watch the video. It's not even made by MBBF. Are the MS editors at IGN biased against the X1? Also, I presented 10+ reviews, not just one supporting my position as you did. I think that was very fair.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just watch the video. It's not even made by MBBF. Are the MS editors at IGN biased against the X1?

Instead of just relying on one single source, take a composite look. Most of the articles I'm seeing are reporting between 80 and 90% recognition rate in voice commands. That is about in-line with what I get with Siri on my iPhone.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Instead of just relying on one single source, take a composite look. Most of the articles I'm seeing are reporting between 80 and 90% recognition rate in voice commands. That is about in-line with what I get with Siri on my iPhone.

Saying anything is as good as Siri usually isn't considered a compliment in most circles. My six year old gives Siri WTF looks all the time and she's not even using big words.

Just watch the video. Give your opinion of what you see.

[cartman]

What's the point of giving you my feedback on the video? You think the Xbox One is inferior, and you are going to continue to comb the internet looking for anything that paints the Xbox One in a less than stellar light and then rush here to post it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

What's the point of giving you my feedback on the video? You think the Xbox One is inferior, and you are going to continue to comb the internet looking for anything that paints the Xbox One in a less than stellar light and then rush here to post it.

Which makes it CLEARLY obvious that you didn't read the link to the reviews. There were plenty of positives in there.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Which makes it CLEARLY obvious that you didn't read the link to the reviews. There were plenty of positives in there.

I did, but again, why bother trying to have this discussion with you? Any time someone posts anything at all that sounds positive for MS, you have to post three things extolling Sony or something that doesn't work 100% for Microsoft. Even if an article is 95% positive on Microsoft, you'll post a link and focus on the 5% that is negative.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

I did, but again, why bother trying to have this discussion with you? Any time someone posts anything at all that sounds positive for MS, you have to post three things extolling Sony or something that doesn't work 100% for Microsoft. Even if an article is 95% positive on Microsoft, you'll post a link and focus on the 5% that is negative.

We both agree on something. You never attempt to have a discussion with me. But I'll keep trying.

[gstelmack]

These are all issues that will improve as software matures, so if the worst that the XboxONE has to face is voice recognition not being spot on right away (do any of these reviews say it gets better as it learns your voice?) and the Kinect is not handling lots of players very well, I think Microsoft would have to be ecstatic with the launch.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

These are all issues that will improve as software matures, so if the worst that the XboxONE has to face is voice recognition not being spot on right away (do any of these reviews say it gets better as it learns your voice?) and the Kinect is not handling lots of players very well, I think Microsoft would have to be ecstatic with the launch.

Well, your assumptions that software will later make things better, or if there is any kind of voice learning, is predicated on Microsoft having any sort of clue, which they clearly don't have since they decided to release another console this generation, which is obviously a losing battle from the start once Sony announced the PS4.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

These are all issues that will improve as software matures, so if the worst that the XboxONE has to face is voice recognition not being spot on right away (do any of these reviews say it gets better as it learns your voice?) and the Kinect is not handling lots of players very well, I think Microsoft would have to be ecstatic with the launch.

I'd agree. They're obviously in a tough spot that was self-created by their 180 a few months back that forced them to make lots of changes in a relatively short period of time. They're going to be playing catch-up this time around, but improvements in the software might help out. My question is, will anyone care by that time? When I say that, I wonder if voice recognition will be something that most won't even be using by that time, opting for controller interface instead. That's probably a good question for both consoles, as the PS4 will also have voice commands at some level, though the PS4 isn't making it a centerpiece of their console as MS is doing.

As for Kinect not handling players well, I'll assume you didn't watch the video. It failed when there was only two players in the room. It wasn't like it took six players to mess it up. MS was the one who said it could comfortably handle six players. All these guys did was test what MS claimed was possible.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

My question is, will anyone care by that time?

Well, the first question is how many care about either console right now.

Of those, which do you think would be more concerning to folks thinking about buying one: some issues with Kinect and large groups plus voice recognition not always working right, or consoles that won't turn on at all?

Your facts do not lead to your conclusions.

Hint: the answer is going to depend on folks getting to spend a couple of months with the consoles, getting through a software update or two, and most importantly their experience while playing actual GAMES on the console and using them for actual entertainment (such as XboxONE owners' experience while watching NFL games and how things interact with their cable boxes) will determine who cares about what in a few months. It won't depend on random internet videos with people messing around or a bad batch of Amazon deliveries.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, the first question is how many care about either console right now.

Of those, which do you think would be more concerning to folks thinking about buying one: some issues with Kinect and large groups plus voice recognition not always working right, or consoles that won't turn on at all?

Your facts do not lead to your conclusions.

Hint: the answer is going to depend on folks getting to spend a couple of months with the consoles, getting through a software update or two, and most importantly their experience while playing actual GAMES on the console and using them for actual entertainment (such as XboxONE owners' experience while watching NFL games and how things interact with their cable boxes) will determine who cares about what in a few months. It won't depend on random internet videos with people messing around or a bad batch of Amazon deliveries.

In regards to boldface, we should probably hold off until both consoles are released. MS is definitely the one who has a bit more to prove in regards to reliability after the last generation. Hard to believe that they can do any worse though.

As for the experiences down the road, do you really think the console war will turn on experiences while watching NFL games? I think now. Games are what will make the difference.

Just from my own personal experience thus far with the PS4, if you're a X1 early adopter, stay clear of Battlefield 4 and COD: Ghosts. They both are VERY buggy right now on the PS4 and I find it hard to believe that the counterpart on the X1 can be much better. Grab some of the first party software instead. Wait for the problems to sort out on the MP shooter 3rd party games.

[dubb93]

I agree with a large portion of you that many things largely don't matter today. However, once supply catches up to demand, Microsoft is charging $100 more for the Kinect. It has to work virtual flawlessly at that point or it will hurt them unless they price cut.

Also that PCmag review for Xbox lists the PS4 controller as better? Really? If that is true, that could be huge for Sony since the perceived difference in controller quality this last generation worked out for Microsoft. If that has flipped this generation, that could be a game changer.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm anxious to hear about the xb1.. so those of you getting one release day, get those impressions up!

Here's one of the more complete reviews I've read.

Xbox One Review | Polygon

Unfortunately mine is going to be sitting in the box, gathering dust. I'm not back home until the first week in December.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Also that PCmag review for Xbox lists the PS4 controller as better? Really? If that is true, that could be huge for Sony since the perceived difference in controller quality this last generation worked out for Microsoft. If that has flipped this generation, that could be a game changer.

While I think the PS4 is a great controller, I think the enhanced view of it is mostly because it's such a drastic improvement over the DS3. I liked the DS3 controller. After playing with the DS4 controller for a week, I went into my daughter's room to play Disney Infinity with her. I was extremely annoyed with the DS3 and couldn't get over thinking about how uncomfortable it is compared to the new DS4 controller. I'm guessing this is somewhat similar to the reaction some X360 owners had when they played the PS3.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

While I think the PS4 is a great controller, I think the enhanced view of it is mostly because it's such a drastic improvement over the DS3. I liked the DS3 controller. After playing with the DS4 controller for a week, I went into my daughter's room to play Disney Infinity with her. I was extremely annoyed with the DS3 and couldn't get over thinking about how uncomfortable it is compared to the new DS4 controller. I'm guessing this is somewhat similar to the reaction some X360 owners had when they played the PS3.

The PS4 controller has a lot of functionality that I like and the swipe feature is cool when it's utilized correctly, but for pure gaming, I'll still take the XBox 360 controller. I'll be interested to feel the X1 controller when I get a chance.

[sterlingice]

I wonder if voice recognition will truly get better. I mean from 90% to 95% to 99% to 99.9% better. If iPhone's heavy use still has us to a mostly unacceptable level, will Microsoft get us closer? It's possible, considering there's more computing power, it's a newer generation of technology, etc. But it's surprising how long it's taken us to get even small, incremental increases on voice recognition technology.

SI

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I wonder if voice recognition will truly get better. I mean from 90% to 95% to 99% to 99.9% better. If iPhone's heavy use still has us to a mostly unacceptable level, will Microsoft get us closer? It's possible, considering there's more computing power, it's a newer generation of technology, etc. But it's surprising how long it's taken us to get even small, incremental increases on voice recognition technology.

SI

One of my friends has used Dragon naturally speaking, or something like that, for quite a while and it works quite well for him. He's basically to the point where only minor edits are required and it's faster than him typing it out. Although I don't know at this point if he's trained it or its trained him.

[dubb93]

I called around about 20 places today to try and gather when the next shipment of PS4's will be in. I've decided I want one. Most either wouldn't tell me, or said they are holding all of the ones they get in for Black Friday. One Gamestop offered to sell me one for $950 cash. I called about five different Gamestops though, so that was a one off.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by dubb93

One Gamestop offered to sell me one for $950 cash.

Sounds like one employee doesn't want to wait for his eBay auction to finish...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by nilodor

One of my friends has used Dragon naturally speaking, or something like that, for quite a while and it works quite well for him. He's basically to the point where only minor edits are required and it's faster than him typing it out. Although I don't know at this point if he's trained it or its trained him.

My wife is a radiologist and does all her reports via Dragon. They have voice recognition that accurately catches all the medical terms you could think of. It's crazy good. When you see that kind of stuff, you realize that the voice recognition has little to do with whether good voice recognition software is available and simply that the ones that don't work aren't implemented properly.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

When you see that kind of stuff, you realize that the voice recognition has little to do with whether good voice recognition software is available and simply that the ones that don't work aren't implemented properly.

Sometimes, and sometimes they just need training to get used to your voice, depending on how it's implemented.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I called around about 20 places today to try and gather when the next shipment of PS4's will be in. I've decided I want one. Most either wouldn't tell me, or said they are holding all of the ones they get in for Black Friday. One Gamestop offered to sell me one for $950 cash. I called about five different Gamestops though, so that was a one off.

This is probably the reason. Gamestop is reporting that PS3 demand currently outstrips supply by 2.3M units and expects demand to outstrip supply with the X1. Anyone who thinks console gaming is dying probably should postpone that thought for a bit.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Sometimes, and sometimes they just need training to get used to your voice, depending on how it's implemented.

She's seen none of that with Dragon from day 1. She did a 15 minute training session and hasn't had to do anything since then. Both the X1 and PS4 voice recognition are lacking.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So, who are the posters who are picking up a console tonight just so we know who to watch for feedback (or wonder why they don't post for the next couple of days)?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I called around about 20 places today to try and gather when the next shipment of PS4's will be in. I've decided I want one. Most either wouldn't tell me, or said they are holding all of the ones they get in for Black Friday. One Gamestop offered to sell me one for $950 cash. I called about five different Gamestops though, so that was a one off.

Try Target if any close. The one near me said they will likely get some on their truck Friday, or there is one on Amazon or $778 if you want to spend above retail.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

She did a 15 minute training session

I rest my case. Other platforms will choose to learn as you go and avoid that initial training session. Also, does she have a quiet environment for her work, or does she do it in the middle of the living room of an active house?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So, who are the posters who are picking up a console tonight just so we know who to watch for feedback (or wonder why they don't post for the next couple of days)?

I'll get mine during the day, and won't get time with it until tomorrow night for the initial setup, etc. However, as a developer, I'm not sure how much weight my opinion should/would carry - you'll note I'm not really saying which one I prefer (other than to say I'm getting an Xbox ONE because myself and the kids have made heavy use of the Kinect on the 360), mostly I'm just trying to argue factual errors / outrageous conclusions and keep my opinions out of this thread.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I rest my case. Other platforms will choose to learn as you go and avoid that initial training session. Also, does she have a quiet environment for her work, or does she do it in the middle of the living room of an active house?

Which is the whole point. They have to design a system that will work in the living room of an active house or it's useless. You'll just have frustrated users that wonder why their request isn't being recognized (which is what we've seen thus far in the early impressions).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'll get mine during the day, and won't get time with it until tomorrow night for the initial setup, etc. However, as a developer, I'm not sure how much weight my opinion should/would carry - you'll note I'm not really saying which one I prefer (other than to say I'm getting an Xbox ONE because myself and the kids have made heavy use of the Kinect on the 360), mostly I'm just trying to argue factual errors / outrageous conclusions and keep my opinions out of this thread.

I'm not sure why your bias matters. I think most people in the thread are aware of what you do. Doesn't mean you can't provide good feedback.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Sounds like one employee doesn't want to wait for his eBay auction to finish...

For sure. I'm going to assume if he offers it to the wrong person over the phone it could end up his only source of income this XMas though.

Try Target if any close. The one near me said they will likely get some on their truck Friday, or there is one on Amazon or $778 if you want to spend above retail.

Thanks and no thanks. I think I will wait to get one for retail.

Thanks for the Target tip. I'll check them out on Friday this week, the Target I called wouldn't give me any tips to help me grab one from them. Fairly unlikely that every Target gets a truck on the same day, but it is worth a shot.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Thanks for the Target tip. I'll check them out on Friday this week, the Target I called wouldn't give me any tips to help me grab one from them. Fairly unlikely that every Target gets a truck on the same day, but it is worth a shot.

Pretty sure that Target's delivery date for PS4's is every Friday. Most retailers have a single day where they deliver them each week. Best thing to do is just go to a store and buddy up with them for a few minutes at a place like Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Gamestop, etc. They'll spill the beans if you talk long enough. They want to show customers how knowledgeable they are about the supply chain.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So, who are the posters who are picking up a console tonight just so we know who to watch for feedback (or wonder why they don't post for the next couple of days)?

Mine is coming via Amazon but my delivery date may have been bumped back from Friday to Tuesday, still trying to find out.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Which is the whole point. They have to design a system that will work in the living room of an active house or it's useless. You'll just have frustrated users that wonder why their request isn't being recognized (which is what we've seen thus far in the early impressions).

So this went:

1. You cherry-pick reviews complaining about Kinect and the voice commands.
2. We post reviews saying it works well most of the time.
3. You say most of the time isn't good enough.
4. I point out it needs some training, and the software will likely improve (as always).
5. You counter with an example of a piece of software that works great AFTER A TRAINING PERIOD.
6. I wonder how you can't see the connection between 4 & 5, how you just said the same thing I did but drew a completely different conclusion, and how you continue to ignore the reviews that point out the time savings voice commands are at skipping over several UI steps.
7. I give up and put you back on my Ignore list so that instead of leaving the thread and forum in frustration, I can continue this conversation with folks that actually want to bring real information and have an informed conversation.

[Eaglesfan27]

I am picking mine up tomorrow but am slammed at work and probably won't even get it set up until Monday.

[SackAttack]

Interesting to note the midnight release demand for the Wii U, One and PS4 and compare that to the original Wii. That system, by 6 pm the night before launch, the Best Buy I worked at in CA had over 100 people in line.

Wii U, I got a wild hair up my ass and went to the midnight release 30 minutes before the store opened and there were fewer than 10 people in line. PS4, driving home the other day, had about a dozen people in line at 6 pm. Xbox One, leaving Best Buy at about 6 pm (I went there to pick up some apple cider K-cups for my Keurig) there were 4 or 5 people waiting in line.

Not sure if it means anything that the PS4 campers brought tents on a night where no inclement weather was expected, while the One campers hadn't done so when we're expecting rain/snow tonight, but funny all the same.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

So this went:

1. You cherry-pick reviews complaining about Kinect and the voice commands.
2. We post reviews saying it works well most of the time.
3. You say most of the time isn't good enough.
4. I point out it needs some training, and the software will likely improve (as always).
5. You counter with an example of a piece of software that works great AFTER A TRAINING PERIOD.
6. I wonder how you can't see the connection between 4 & 5, how you just said the same thing I did but drew a completely different conclusion, and how you continue to ignore the reviews that point out the time savings voice commands are at skipping over several UI steps.
7. I give up and put you back on my Ignore list so that instead of leaving the thread and forum in frustration, I can continue this conversation with folks that actually want to bring real information and have an informed conversation.

Can't someone just block him from this thread?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Interesting to note the midnight release demand for the Wii U, One and PS4 and compare that to the original Wii. That system, by 6 pm the night before launch, the Best Buy I worked at in CA had over 100 people in line.

Wii U, I got a wild hair up my ass and went to the midnight release 30 minutes before the store opened and there were fewer than 10 people in line. PS4, driving home the other day, had about a dozen people in line at 6 pm. Xbox One, leaving Best Buy at about 6 pm (I went there to pick up some apple cider K-cups for my Keurig) there were 4 or 5 people waiting in line.

Not sure if it means anything that the PS4 campers brought tents on a night where no inclement weather was expected, while the One campers hadn't done so when we're expecting rain/snow tonight, but funny all the same.

No one was waiting at the Target I just got back from, but then again I don't know if they're doing anything at midnight.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

No one was waiting at the Target I just got back from, but then again I don't know if they're doing anything at midnight.

Yeah, there were no lines for PS4 at Toys R Us (where I work now) last week, but no midnight event, either. Also, I thinks TRU presold their entire launch allocation, so.

Expecting the same tonight for Xbox One tbh

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Mine is coming via Amazon but my delivery date may have been bumped back from Friday to Tuesday, still trying to find out.

Nevermind, mine has shipped and so I should have it tomorrow after work. I'll let you know. I went back in and re-ordered Ryse and switched to Battlefield 4 rather than COD. I'll let you know about those but I'm kicking myself for not snagging Madden simply because of how great it looks.

[MizzouRah]

I get to work tonight because my co-worker is at Gamestop standing in line hoping to get an XB1, he already has the ps4.

Crazy....

[gstelmack]

I do wonder if the other difference between now and when the Wii/PS3/360 were released is online ordering. How many folks who stood in line 7 years ago are now just ordering from Amazon?

[Kodos]

Reading that Xbox review did up my interest, but I'm still in the wait a year camp.