Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[BrianD]

Anybody have any ideas on a decent TV station to watch for election coverage? I've been flipping back and forth between Fox and CNN and am getting tired of the Fox all McCain all the time reporting and the CNN all Obama all the time reporting. Does anyone report more from the middle?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

These things have been going around every election day since I was a kid, so I dunno why all of a sudden now they're getting all sensitive about it. If someone this year doesn't know when election day is, they probably shouldn't be voting.

The reason they keep happening is because no one ever gets prosecuted. Harmless prank my ass. Throw one of these fuck-holes in jail for voter fraud and see if someone tries it next election.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Anybody have any ideas on a decent TV station to watch for election coverage? I've been flipping back and forth between Fox and CNN and am getting tired of the Fox all McCain all the time reporting and the CNN all Obama all the time reporting. Does anyone report more from the middle?

I've been watching msnbc myself. I don't know if they are the most neutral station, but they at least irritate me less than fox (right leaning) and cnn (left leaning) seem to.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've been watching msnbc myself. I don't know if they are the most neutral station, but they at least irritate me less than fox (right leaning) and cnn (left leaning) seem to.

Seems worth a shot to me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've been watching msnbc myself. I don't know if they are the most neutral station, but they at least irritate me less than fox (right leaning) and cnn (left leaning) seem to.

Good lord.

[stevew]

MSNBC as the moderate station-lofl.

[Maple Leafs]

Anyone know of any sites or blogs that are leaking exit poll results during the day?

[Crim]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've been watching msnbc myself. I don't know if they are the most neutral station, but they at least irritate me less than fox (right leaning) and cnn (left leaning) seem to.

Umm.





Seriously?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

This Fairness Doctrine is one of the singularly most stupid ideas that I have heard a legislature seriously discuss. It goes against so much of what this country is about that the mind boggles.

+1

Just got back from voting. My place was empty, just me and one other guy. I asked and they said it was like that all morning. I guess I live in an area of apathy.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Anyone know of any sites or blogs that are leaking exit poll results during the day?

Down Goes Brown

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've been watching msnbc myself. I don't know if they are the most neutral station, but they at least irritate me less than fox (right leaning) and cnn (left leaning) seem to.

I go with MSNBC. Fox is a joke, CNN is so afraid of being called biased that they walk on eggshells and just let the surrogates on both sides say anything without being challenged, plus the constant schilling for Hillary during the primaries grew tiresome.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

CNN is so afraid of being called biased that they walk on eggshells

I think they must have gotten over that. They have spent the past few hours talking to every black voter they can find asking how wonderful it is that they can vote for Obama. That and they let their Colorado correspondent call the state for Obama already.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Down Goes Brown

I meant good sites.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I think they must have gotten over that. They have spent the past few hours talking to every black voter they can find asking how wonderful it is that they can vote for Obama. That and they let their Colorado correspondent call the state for Obama already.

Agreed. I watched it over lunch and it might as well have been coverage of a coronation. As you mentioned, the interviews at the polling places were making me wonder if a single white person even bothered to vote today. Every single person interviewed was African-American for 45 minutes.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've been watching msnbc myself. I don't know if they are the most neutral station, but they at least irritate me less than fox (right leaning) and cnn (left leaning) seem to.

+1

They're not unbiased as Alan says, but I can deal with their pundits better than any of the others hands down. I just mute when I get tired of listening. I think it's because unlike the others, they actually have a deep bench of people who are actually trained at journalists and so, they tend to be a bit more evenhanded. FOX and CNN are almost entirely filled with wonks who simply have a showpony journalist as a referee. It's a far cry from the days of Bernard Shaw.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I meant good sites.

Brown Goes Down? I heard about that one on the New York Times website. It has to be good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As you mentioned, the interviews at the polling places were making me wonder if a single white person even bothered to vote today.

Well, turnout is reported lighter than expected today in some traditional (R) precincts around Atlanta. If that holds up all day, Chambliss may end up hoping he can even get to a runoff.

[miked]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, turnout is reported lighter than expected today in some traditional (R) precincts around Atlanta. If that holds up all day, Chambliss may end up hoping he can even get to a runoff.

WOOOOOOT! Not that I like Jim Martin, but a Chambliss loss would at least get things moving in the right direction.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

WOOOOOOT! Not that I like Jim Martin, but a Chambliss loss would at least get things moving in the right direction.

In the words of Lee Corso ... Not so fast there my friend.

If Chambliss gets to a runoff he'll win, won't be enough turnout from the Obamites to give it to Martin. But at this point turnout may prevent it from going that far.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

+1

They're not unbiased as Alan says, but I can deal with their pundits better than any of the others hands down. I just mute when I get tired of listening. I think it's because unlike the others, they actually have a deep bench of people who are actually trained at journalists and so, they tend to be a bit more evenhanded. FOX and CNN are almost entirely filled with wonks who simply have a showpony journalist as a referee. It's a far cry from the days of Bernard Shaw.

MSNBC as unbiased is a stretch, but I will be tuned into them for analysis tonight when possible.

[miked]

I definitely think Martin loses a runoff. Martin just has to hit 50.1 or something. Otherwise, 6 more years of a do-nothing senator.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by stevew

MSNBC as the moderate station-lofl.

+1

[Schmidty]

Well, I've been flipping between news channels, and although I dislike FoxNews, I thought it was interesting that they found some Black Panthers outside of polling places in Penn. Some guy got a camera phone vid of them with a nightstick, and "intimidating". Weird.

I'm sure the same thing has happened in reverse in the past.

[bob]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, turnout is reported lighter than expected today in some traditional (R) precincts around Atlanta.

That may be true, but remember that 35% of registered voters in Georgia voted before today in early voting. So any projections based exclusively on what is seen today are likely to be misleading.

[flere-imsaho]

I'm pretty sure Alan T didn't call MSNBC unbiased or neutral, just that they didn't annoy him as much as FOX & CNN.

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've been watching msnbc myself. I don't know if they are the most neutral station, but they at least irritate me less than fox (right leaning) and cnn (left leaning) seem to.

Reading comprehension, people!

[Lathum]

So I have a question, I'm not well versed on politics and if this came up here before I apologize.

The Wall Street Journal had a poll that showed 90% of black people supported Obama.

Is there a sentiment that Obama may win the election based solely on the color of his skin and not on the issues at hand.

Also, are alot of black people voting who otherwise wouldn't have voted just because there is a black candidate to vote for?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Wall Street Journal had a poll that showed 90% of black people supported Obama.

Is there a sentiment that Obama may win the election based solely on the color of his skin and not on the issues at hand.

Also, are alot of black people voting who otherwise wouldn't have voted just because there is a black candidate to vote for?

Going entirely by recollection (so anyone can feel free to correct me with actual facts):

Obama can't win the election solely on the backs of the black vote. However, given that the black vote historically has some low turnout, a successful GOTV operation by Obama for blacks and young people should have a significant overall effect.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'm pretty sure Alan T didn't call MSNBC unbiased or neutral, just that they didn't annoy him as much as FOX & CNN.



Reading comprehension, people!

Nothing is unbiased or neutral. He was suggesting that MS-NBC was less biased which is laughable.

[MIJB#19]

Excuse me for asking, but... CNN is considered 'left leaning'?
I'm only familiar with their 'International' brand, but I always felt that part is 'right leaning'.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Excuse me for asking, but... CNN is considered 'left leaning'?
I'm only familiar with their 'International' brand, but I always felt that part is 'right leaning'.

What is considered "Left leaning" in the US would be considered crazy conservative right by a couple Canadians and Euros that I talk to consistently

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I'd say this might speak to the differences between our country and Europe.

That's probably true--similar to how many Europeans perceive the US Democratic Party to be fairly conservative, especially when compared to the left-leaning political parties in Europe.

For what it's worth, I do enjoy CNN International when I'm abroad since, as opposed to the US version of CNN, there is still actual news content on the international version.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'm pretty sure Alan T didn't call MSNBC unbiased or neutral, just that they didn't annoy him as much as FOX & CNN.

Reading comprehension, people!

Yes, but his statement also indicated that CNN annoyed him due to it's left leaning reporting. CNN is middle ground compared to MSNBC. If CNN's left annoys him, MSNBC's left should drive him to suicide.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bob

That may be true, but remember that 35% of registered voters in Georgia voted before today in early voting. So any projections based exclusively on what is seen today are likely to be misleading.

Or not, at least in terms of turnout & impact.

Consider this
A Republican-oriented number cruncher offered this look at early voting, which points to the problem the GOP may face tonight:

In 2004, white Georgians made up 71 percent of the vote. African-Americans made up 25 percent. That’s a 46 point gap. Even so, the spread between George Bush (58 percent) and John Kerry (41 percent) was only 17 points.

In early voting this year, white voters made up 60 percent of the electorate. African-Americans made up 35 percent. The 46 point spread of 2004 has been reduced to 25 points. And that reduction erases 2004 margin between Bush and Kerry.

And polling by Public Policy Polling showed Obama leading the early voting 52-47 (with McCain leading remaining likely voters 54-43). If turnout were to be significantly lighter than expected, McCain may not even hold Georgia.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Excuse me for asking, but... CNN is considered 'left leaning'?
I'm only familiar with their 'International' brand, but I always felt that part is 'right leaning'.

In the U.S, CNN jokingly has the nickname 'Clinton News Network' due to its left-leaning reporting.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So I have a question, I'm not well versed on politics and if this came up here before I apologize.

The Wall Street Journal had a poll that showed 90% of black people supported Obama.

Is there a sentiment that Obama may win the election based solely on the color of his skin and not on the issues at hand.

Also, are alot of black people voting who otherwise wouldn't have voted just because there is a black candidate to vote for?

Blacks vote Democrat at those rates even if the candidate is white.

Obama's support among blacks and young americans is solely borne out of his own merit of convincing them he's someone worth voting for. Or you know, no more likely to be biased in the same manner that white folks who don't have to answer why they voted McCain might be doing so.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Obama's support among blacks and young americans is solely borne out of his own merit of convincing them he's someone worth voting for.

LOL.

Your point about the percentage of blacks voting (D) is well taken ... but it fails to take into account those who don't normally vote but did this year.

[Kodos]

MSNBC is definitely the most liberal -- and is my station of choice. CNN is my fallback position if something uninteresting is on MSNBC.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Crim

Umm.





Seriously?

Gee, didn't know this was going to be one of my biggest controversial comments of the day. I personally am fairly moderate and it is pretty tough finding a station that has no slant ever. Most of the stations in my mind lean left (as I feel msnbc does somewhat).. but it annoys me far less than CNN or FOX both of which seem to have horrible slants to them. Even though msnbc seems to lean left in my mind, they still have had quite a large amount of positive McCain coverage and comments all day today..

I haven't found a station that is more moderate to my liking yet.. (and no Fox is not it.. they are just as bad as CNN but in the opposite direction)

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Blacks vote Democrat at those rates even if the candidate is white.

What about in the democratic primaries where blacks voted for Obama over Clinton in a 80-90% rate?

[MIJB#19]

Sounds plausible, guys. Nothing shocking compared to what 'America correspondents' usually claim.

Any ideas when first reasonable results/predictions can be expected?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Nothing is unbiased or neutral. He was suggesting that MS-NBC was less biased which is laughable.

Speaking only about today and not historically...this isn't laughable. I am already seeing more analysis on both candidates and lots of gushing about McCain's recent speech. MSNBC in less than an hour has done more work from the middle than CNN did in the 4ish hours I had them on.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

LOL.

Your point about the percentage of blacks voting (D) is well taken ... but it fails to take into account those who don't normally vote but did this year.

Well, isn't that the main purpose of all of this campaigning that's been going on? To mobilize your base and get people who you think will vote for you to the polls?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

LOL.

Your point about the percentage of blacks voting (D) is well taken ... but it fails to take into account those who don't normally vote but did this year.

GOTV effort + momentum. All Obama and the work they've done to get those people to come out and vote for them when they haven't/didn't/wouldn't in past races.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Your point about the percentage of blacks voting (D) is well taken ... but it fails to take into account those who don't normally vote but did this year.

and I guess thats my question.

Is there a signifigantly higher number of blacks voting Obama for no other reason then the color of his skin? Blacks who ordinarily wouldn't have voted at all.

And if that is the case, do people find that disturbing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Well, isn't that the main purpose of all of this campaigning that's been going on? To mobilize your base and get people who you think will vote for you to the polls?

Didn't say there was anything "wrong" with it or whatever. Just saying that a claim that there isn't a significant role played by Obama's race with black voters is so laughable that it boggles the mind.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In the U.S, CNN jokingly has the nickname 'Clinton News Network' due to its left-leaning reporting.

Hadn't heard that one before. Would that make FOX = Fascists on Xtascy?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Saying that back people are voting for Obama solely because he's black has about as much truth in it as saying that people are solely voting for McCain because they are racist. I'm sure there are some folks on the fringe who are voting this way, but there are folks on the fringe who do a lot of weird things.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Lathum

and I guess thats my question.

Is there a signifigantly higher number of blacks voting Obama for no other reason then the color of his skin? Blacks who ordinarily wouldn't have voted at all.

And if that is the case, do people find that disturbing.

I'll bite.

No more disturbing than say, the legions of whites who'll vote for McCain because he represents all that is great and decent about this country. (read: he's white)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Speaking only about today and not historically...this isn't laughable. I am already seeing more analysis on both candidates and lots of gushing about McCain's recent speech. MSNBC in less than an hour has done more work from the middle than CNN did in the 4ish hours I had them on.

Yeah.. I really am scratching my head reading replies from people to my comments. I really have a difficult time trying to understand when people are saying things they actually believe and when they just have an agenda they are pushing.

You asked for opinions and I gave mine.. so far I've had MSNBC on for several hours today and haven't been driven to change it because of it driving me crazy. For the most part all day, it has been fairly equal point and counter point with both sides fairly well represented.

Maybe some of MSNBC's political commentators that give their opinions on issues are far left, but they haven't been on much at all today and it has mostly been various members of Democrat or Republican sides giving talking points as well as news coverage.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Saying that back people are voting for Obama solely because he's black has about as much truth in it as saying that people are solely voting for McCain because they are racist. I'm sure there are some folks on the fringe who are voting this way, but there are folks on the fringe who do a lot of weird things.

Never underestimate the stupidity of an average voter.