11-13-2015, 06:24 PM | #51 | ||
Torchbearer
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On Lake Harriet
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Dola: Thoughts with those in Paris.
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11-13-2015, 06:27 PM | #52 |
Pro Rookie
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Location: Dayton, Ohio
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CNN (and others) reporting "around 100 people killed at Paris concert hall."
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11-13-2015, 06:28 PM | #53 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
No idea if that 2% is true, but your math is off by an order of 10 - 2% of 2m is 40,000. |
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11-13-2015, 06:35 PM | #54 | |
Pro Starter
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Quote:
OK. Here's the difficulty: yes, a lot of those travelling are males 20-30... But it is also true that ISIS/ISIL are forcing men to join, or die. Who in their right mind wouldn't flee? It's really difficult not to succumb to the kill em all attitude, especially in light of events like this, but it is just an infentissimally small minority. Where it's difficult is how to both identify and prevent/elimnate this minority, and that is part of the idea of the terrorists when planning the attacks. Just news now that 140 killed at the concert hall. It is scary, I don't have answers, but we must remember that it is such a small minority.
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11-13-2015, 06:45 PM | #55 |
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Having said all that, I am (and always have been) completely opposed to the EU idea of open borders, and it it telling that as soon as anything that is out of the ordinary happens numerous countries try and set up secure borders...
The EU is a flawed geopolitical idea, and the sooner people realise this, there will be a significiant increase in security.
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'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports! Last edited by AlexB : 11-13-2015 at 06:46 PM. |
11-13-2015, 06:52 PM | #56 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
Apparently I picked the wrong week to start sniffing glue.
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11-13-2015, 06:58 PM | #57 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bryson Shitty, NC
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Man... I'll never get it. I'll never understand why anyone kills innocents like this. If you have a beef with someone, take it up directly. Don't be a goddamn coward and blow yourself up in a crowd of random fucking people. The only point it makes is that extremism is a pestilence that we need to find a cure for.
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11-13-2015, 07:19 PM | #58 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Talked to a few friends back home this afternoon while news was breaking and this is the prevailing thought - this has to be the end of open borders in the EU. When the EU was a collection of well off Western European nations it may have made some sense, but the situation right now is absolute insanity. |
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11-13-2015, 07:35 PM | #59 |
Resident Alien
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Sickening. Gotta wipe out the people who do this.
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11-13-2015, 07:36 PM | #60 |
Head Coach
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Just found this article posted earlier in the day about the German team hotel being evacuated for a bomb threat. Report: Germany evacuated from team hotel due to bomb threat | FOX Sports
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11-13-2015, 07:38 PM | #61 |
Head Coach
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Location: Surfside Beach,SC USA
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My heart goes out to France tonight and to any French people/relatives of members of this forum. Kinda makes my 50th birthday tomorrow like I don't even want to celebrate it.
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11-13-2015, 07:39 PM | #62 |
Grizzled Veteran
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Location: Backwoods, SC
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How soon until this becomes a gun debate?
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11-13-2015, 07:50 PM | #63 |
General Manager
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If you're scared of being killed, your brain just isn't going to be able to distinguish non-threats from threats very well. Your brain will err on the side of seeing threats. That's the basis of so much racial tension, and general tension between citizens and police (which of course can also have a racial basis).
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11-13-2015, 07:54 PM | #64 |
Head Coach
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take this for what its worth since its on the band's Facebook page-but it appears the band members are safe.
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11-13-2015, 08:22 PM | #65 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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Newt Gingrich has already grabbed that brass ring.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
11-13-2015, 08:34 PM | #66 |
World Champion Mis-speller
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Location: Covington, Ga.
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11-13-2015, 08:36 PM | #67 |
World Champion Mis-speller
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Location: Covington, Ga.
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French press reporting 4 attackers killed in the theater, 3 of them killed by suicide belt.
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11-13-2015, 08:39 PM | #68 |
Coordinator
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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Any word on whether it's confirmed if they've arrested 2 terrorists?
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11-13-2015, 08:40 PM | #69 |
World Champion Mis-speller
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11-13-2015, 08:53 PM | #70 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
It would be hard to believe every one of them made it out safely based on eyewitness accounts I heard. But the wife of the lead drummer spoke to him apparently and that's what he said. |
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11-13-2015, 09:31 PM | #71 |
Head Coach
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11-13-2015, 09:34 PM | #72 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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That was an older tweet, not from today.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
11-13-2015, 09:39 PM | #73 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Quote:
I'm guessing you meant lead singer? Meanwhile the AJC has posted an article confirming the safety of the drummer, based on a phone call (and subsequent interview) with his brother. His version was that the band mostly heard, rather than saw, the attack due to the stage lights. They hit the ground, made their way off-stage & fled, running down the sidewalk until they saw a police station & went inside.
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11-13-2015, 11:03 PM | #74 |
Death Herald
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Lucky guy.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
11-13-2015, 11:53 PM | #75 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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ISIS needs to get it's shit ruined.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
11-14-2015, 12:19 AM | #76 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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Supposedly 7 of 8 terrorists blew themselves up.
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11-14-2015, 12:33 AM | #77 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Airdrie
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Very tragic and sad indeed. May all the innocent that died RIP. Can see a backlash against the refugees in europe, as I fear this is the beginning of many more attacks to come here in NA and abroad, specifically Russia who will be targeted no doubt. Bunch of cowards!
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11-14-2015, 03:56 AM | #78 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
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This is horrible.
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11-14-2015, 04:31 AM | #79 |
Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
11-14-2015, 05:31 AM | #80 |
"Dutch"
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Location: Tampa, FL
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There's a storm coming. Time to take back up the offensive.
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11-14-2015, 05:34 AM | #81 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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The Latest: Security alert at London Gatwick airport
Quote:
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11-14-2015, 05:36 AM | #82 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Most suicide bombers are heavily drugged...and many are detonated remotely. ISIS has generated a few "ballsy" kamakasi styled terrorists but they can't sustain that and will go back to remote controlled detonations of drugged people. At least, that's what they used to do before their name changed from Al Qaeda to ISIS. |
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11-14-2015, 06:36 AM | #83 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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11-14-2015, 06:54 AM | #84 |
Head Coach
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Really tragic circumstances. I do hope we support France in how they choose to respond and take the opportunity to really strengthen our bond.
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11-14-2015, 07:03 AM | #85 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Quote:
Not sure more boots on the ground does anything more than giving them the victimhood they desire to drive recruitment. There is a huge perception problem the West faces here. They need to figure out how to drive a stake through the heart of these fuckers without collateral damage to the civilian populace.
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11-14-2015, 07:20 AM | #86 | |
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Quote:
I just heard that they've had to put down sand in the streets to "soak up the blood of the victims."
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The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! |
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11-14-2015, 07:43 AM | #87 |
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Either we need to forget everything we know about warfare and figure a new way to combat zealots or we fall back on the tried and true and set up a major occupation with tens/hundreds of thousands of troops with an open ended commitment (50 years?) to rebuild the Middle East in our image.
These folks (the zealots) are like bugs. If you clear them out, but miss only a few, you'll have another infestation somewhere down the road.
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The Confederacy lost, it is time to dismantle it. |
11-14-2015, 07:57 AM | #88 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
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ISIS is claiming responsibility.
In Paris, a Syrian passport was found near the body of an attacker outside the Stade de France, according to a police source, CNN affiliate France 2 said. Multiple local media are reporting the same. |
11-14-2015, 08:32 AM | #89 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
No I meant drummer-was the name used in the facebook messages I saw on the band's page. No matter really-glad they are safe. They are very very lucky. Last edited by Thomkal : 11-14-2015 at 08:35 AM. |
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11-14-2015, 09:31 AM | #90 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
I feel caught up in the middle as well. There are strong arguments that can be made for an old school, major NATO-type coalition offensive in the middle east under the guise of protection against aggression. That ends up being an oxymoron as your protection is someone else's aggression. It's clear that we are dealing with a situation that is exasperated by large power vacuumes. All the leaders in these areas are essentially gang leaders or war lords, from Assad on down. Take one and 2 take their place. So where a total war aspect might achieve a goal it would be at a great cost of life and an entirely razed geographical region of the planet. The counter for the flip side is that leaving the current political structure is allowing certain gang leaders to exist merely for the sake of regional balance. I think this was clearly an argument when we went into Iraq for the second time, but I don't think that anyone was willing to concede that it would be this bad. The groups that look to emerge in this are Iran and Saudi Arabia. Iran has been expanding their sphere of influence in the region just the same, but they are trying to be more careful about it and only do it with the blessing of the West when they run into issues. I think that politically they will end up assimilating Iraq and a chunk of Syria, while the Saud sphere will expand as a counter. Those two sides might find balance, but I don't trust either of them to be negotiating partners in a new Middle East power game. My FB feed has been filled with Nuclear mushroom clouds. No kidding. I just don't see how anything short of a major US/European/Russian coalition would be able to do this the right way militarily. However, every day that goes by and we see events like this taking place, the window for anything but overwhelming military force closes further.
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He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam Last edited by PilotMan : 11-14-2015 at 09:33 AM. |
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11-14-2015, 11:07 AM | #91 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Personally I hope this is provided as an opportunity for Putin to rejoin the fold and we do see the U.S., EU and Russia coalition with major support from the Saudis and we just wipe ISIS out. I don't think that's something most moderate Muslims have any problem with and many are considered heretics by ISIS anyway. As horrific as Assad is I don't think another 18-24 months of rule to stabilize Syria with strong international oversight and a transition plan is the end of the world.
The alternative which seems to be hope that a ragtag band of loosely aligned groups can grind down ISIS over the next 3-5 years during which they can fund and plan these kinds of attacks doesn't bear thinking about. The only course of action seems to be cut off the head of the snake. Even if that means we may see more of these attacks in the short term. |
11-14-2015, 11:16 AM | #92 |
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But it always sounds easier than it is, and we rarely look at unintended consequences. The Mujaheddin led to the Taliban and Al Queada. Iraq led to ISIS. Libya led to anarchy. What will come out of an assault on ISIS?
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11-14-2015, 11:31 AM | #93 | |
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Quote:
At this point I'd be fine with carving out a country for them and supporting the Kurds as dictators in much of the ISIL "controlled" territory. |
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11-14-2015, 12:23 PM | #94 | |
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Quote:
The common thread throughout the world is Salafism. This doesn't have its roots in Western intervention or even hatred of the West or of Israel. The root of this is religious leaders who teach that their destiny is tied to a return to sharia. You could include Boko Haram as well, which formed from the chaos surrounding generations of dictatorships in Nigeria. This is very different from the threat posed by Iran, which will benefit from a war against Al Qaeda and/or ISIS. This is ideological. Not only do you have to kill those who have been radicalized (even within Salafism, most choose peace over violence), but you identify and eliminate the religious leaders who teach it. That may prove to be too difficult and could lead to further destabilization as Saudi Arabia would come into heavy play. |
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11-14-2015, 12:31 PM | #95 |
College Starter
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Greek official is saying that one of the terrorists passed through Greece as a Syrian refugee last month.
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11-14-2015, 01:18 PM | #96 |
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11-14-2015, 01:29 PM | #97 |
General Manager
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French police arrested a guy in August who confessed to being part of a plot to hit a French concert venue. This guy's path was probably similar to those of the attackers who pulled it off. Start in France, travel to Syria, get "inspired", and then travel back in a round-about-way through Europe to make it difficult for French authorities to track them. Those French authorities are already stretched thin trying to track the mass movement of humanity and possible threats throughout Europe, and in and out of France specifically.
https://news.vice.com/article/man-wa...nue-police-say "French politicians have long debated what to do about French nationals who wish to return from Syria, and the government has considered many options, including opening rehabilitation centers for returning jihadists to revoking their nationality. So far, none of these solutions have garnered unanimous support, and politicians are still at odds over how to respond to the issue of disillusioned jihadists." There's no perfect policy to deal with any of this. The balance between rights and security is always going to be extremely difficult to navigate. War isn't good, but people don't want their countries to spy on their own citizens either. So is it better to go all out with one, maybe have a balance of both, or what? These aren't easy questions. But I'm positive some of Obama's changes in tone about foreign policy after he took office were inspired by fear of this kind of thing happening in the U.S., and probably intelligence that this kind of thing was or is closer to happening than we all know. You can't guarantee safety no matter what you do or what rules you bend, but I can definitely understand the temptation to do so at the top levels of government. Last edited by molson : 11-14-2015 at 01:34 PM. |
11-14-2015, 01:33 PM | #98 | |
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Actually, in a scenario like you described ...
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11-14-2015, 02:27 PM | #99 |
General Manager
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It's not getting much media but it looks like ISIS also hit Beirut Thursday, killing 43 and injuring hundreds. And then there's the Russian plane crash which they've taken credit for and no government has disagreed with that. This is quite the wave of violence
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11-14-2015, 02:50 PM | #100 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Sep 2004
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147 dead at Garissa University in Kenya as well, though that appears to be a separate group.
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