At my wits end right now - The aftermath

[Buccaneer]

I didn't say anything about due process or even about the law. The implication I was refering to was about something else. To me, it's irrelevant if she is guilty or not guilty in the eyes of the law. One should not judge their own actions in accordance with the judicial system. Behavioral changes can and should work outside of judicial decisions, in accepting personal responsibility for ones actions. That's more important.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I didn't say anything about due process or even about the law. The implication I was refering to was about something else. To me, it's irrelevant if she is guilty or not guilty in the eyes of the law. One should not judge their own actions in accordance with the judicial system. Behavioral changes can and should work outside of judicial decisions, in accepting personal responsibility for ones actions. That's more important.

Ok I agree with you here. Personal responsibility and the law are two different things. I guess i was thrown off by your Patriot Act references.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok I agree with you here. Personal responsibility and the law are two different things. I guess i was thrown off by your Patriot Act references.

But it was Chief that brought up the Patriot Act reference.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I didn't say anything about due process or even about the law. The implication I was refering to was about something else. To me, it's irrelevant if she is guilty or not guilty in the eyes of the law. One should not judge their own actions in accordance with the judicial system. Behavioral changes can and should work outside of judicial decisions, in accepting personal responsibility for ones actions. That's more important.

Well said.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I am being understanding only to the point of realizing it is not the time to beat her down mentally. She is a 99% responsible person, moreso than me on many things and she has come to a stark realization that she has a problem in this area. She knows the point I am at with this and she accepts that she needs to make a permanent change. There will be many serious discussions forthcoming and at the forefront will be not drinking at all in a social setting when she has to drive.

I think she and you should really consider her not drinking at all, regardless of the social or automobile situation. If this is the second time that she has been charged with a DUI, then she has probably done it without getting caught a number of times. I think if she or you allow her to continue to drink, under any circumstances, there is probably a reasonable chance that, over time, some of the rules you put in place will be relaxed. It would be better if she fails at a more lofty goal, like not drinking at all, rather than not drinking and driving.

[King of New York]

Very tough situation, BYU.

I have to be honest: in your shoes, I would find it hard to be so forgiving and supportive. Anyone can make a mistake, and those who make a first mistake deserve some support and forgiveness. But with repeat offenders who won't or can't learn from past mistakes, I now find it almost impossible to forgive or support, because in the past my forgiveness and support seem to have served no purpose other than to facilitate more bad behavior. I sincerely hope that your experience turns out differently.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am just saying too many people in this thread seem to want her to not even try to fight this, to just go to jail, and IMO, these people don't have a clue what they're asking for, or the rights they are telling her to ignore.

As "one of those people", I would just respond that BYU stated she was twice the legal limit and that fact would make her guilty IMHO.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

She has a right to a trial by jury of her peers, and a presumption of innocence until found guilty. And I don't think it's sad that there are those among us who feel that, good Lord, she might actually have the right to exercise that right.

Maybe it's my inexperience with getting arrested for DUIs, but I didn't think they would have a trial with a jury for this. Also, any presumption of innocence from "the peanut gallery" is dashed away by BYU's statement that she was twice the legal limit above.

To get back on-topic, I think BYU is handling this extremely well and wish the best for both him and his wife.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by King of New York

Very tough situation, BYU.

I have to be honest: in your shoes, I would find it hard to be so forgiving and supportive. Anyone can make a mistake, and those who make a first mistake deserve some support and forgiveness. But with repeat offenders who won't or can't learn from past mistakes, I now find it almost impossible to forgive or support, because in the past my forgiveness and support seem to have served no purpose other than to facilitate more bad behavior. I sincerely hope that your experience turns out differently.

I think I would find it pretty easy to be forgiving of a loved one in this specific situation. There would be questions, but I would see it more as a problem to be solved rather than as something personal which required either turning the cheek or not turning the cheek.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

As "one of those people", I would just respond that BYU stated she was twice the legal limit and that fact would make her guilty IMHO.



Maybe it's my inexperience with getting arrested for DUIs, but I didn't think they would have a trial with a jury for this. Also, any presumption of innocence from "the peanut gallery" is dashed away by BYU's statement that she was twice the legal limit above.

To get back on-topic, I think BYU is handling this extremely well and wish the best for both him and his wife.

Once again, actual guilt and legal guilt are two separate things. No one's really disputing that BYU's wife is innocent here, given what we know.

I don't have an issue with people saying she's wrong for what she did, and guilty on a personal (not legal) manner, and for saying she needs to get help. All this has been said, and I agree with it.

But a number of people here seem to suggest she should throw away her rights to a legal trial, perhaps to throw herself at the mercy of the law. What will truly help her is already being done, by BYU, by his family and support circle, and hopefully by herself. If that is enough for this not to happen again, I would not wish jail or criminal punishment on her, for that is an extremely trying event in someone's life, the sort of thing that can lead to long term negative impacts personally, psychologically and professionally for the rest of her life that far outstrip fair punishment for her original crime. I think the people advocating she not try to fight the legal aspect of this have no real idea what they are submitting she put herself through, and perhaps if they did, they would not be so quick to strip her of her rights.

P.S. BTW, all criminal acts, even a parking ticket, can be contested with a jury trial, if the defendant so wishes. I don't know enough on the statistics to know how common or rare that is, but every alleged criminal has this same right, no matter the offense. "Right to trial by jury of their peers", in the Bill of Rights.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

P.S. BTW, all criminal acts, even a parking ticket, can be contested with a jury trial, if the defendant so wishes. I don't know enough on the statistics to know how common or rare that is, but every alleged criminal has this same right, no matter the offense. "Right to trial by jury of their peers", in the Bill of Rights.

Almost. Any crime where the authorized punishment is more than six months allows you the right to trial by jury: FindLaw | Cases and Codes

The thrust of your post--that people have rights which we should not casually discard--is, of course, correct.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Almost. Any crime where the authorized punishment is more than six months allows you the right to trial by jury: FindLaw | Cases and Codes

The thrust of your post--that people have rights which we should not casually discard--is, of course, correct.

Nice, good find. Thanks, albion.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I agree that people in the wrong should be punished for what they have done wrong.

That said, it's tiring to see all of you, including BYU, ready to throw the book at her without due process. This is a right, people. Her constitutional right. Who are you to say she does not have the right to explore whether she is criminally guilty? The laws are written the way they are to ensure that every citizen has this right.

I would guess many to most of you are against the Patriot Act and defend civil liberties at every turn, as do I. Well, this is one of the biggest ones. She has a right to a trial by jury of her peers, and a presumption of innocence until found guilty. And I don't think it's sad that there are those among us who feel that, good Lord, she might actually have the right to exercise that right.

bravo

[boberot]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Not being a jerk at all, you have a point which I will gladly address. I am really not being understanding from the point of "it's all good, you made a mistake." It's not all good, she made a potentially deadly mistake that could have had horrific consequences and that is a BIG problem.

I am being understanding only to the point of realizing it is not the time to beat her down mentally. She is a 99% responsible person, moreso than me on many things and she has come to a stark realization that she has a problem in this area. She knows the point I am at with this and she accepts that she needs to make a permanent change. There will be many serious discussions forthcoming and at the forefront will be not drinking at all in a social setting when she has to drive.

My wife is a life of the party type and people like to get her tipsy because she is a riot when she gets that way. I enjoy her in that mode too, as long as I am there to drive. She will need to modifiy her behavior. She's a grown ass woman and needs to be strong enough to say no when people start shoving shots in her face and she does not have a driver.

I space my drinking out and never have more than 2-3 Beers over the course of an evening. I also start drinking water at least an hour before I know we/I will be leaving.

I think initial support is a strong foundation to build change on and that's how I am choosing to start it. Trust me, I am anything but an enabler and there will come a day as we get through this that she will need to sit down and look me dead in the eye and tell me, "It will never happen again." Our Kids (youngest is 16) know as well and they will be part of that promise too. I trust her and fully believe that at this stage of our lives together I will never have to deal with this again, thats why I am taking this approach.

Wow, I am really impressed by your mature and measured response to this: Give her the support she needs now, but make sure she knows there is ZERO TOLERANCE for this in the future. She is damn lucky to have you.

If I might be so bold, I would suggest in the "serious discussions" that are forthcoming, I would actually spell out what the limits will be from here on out. No more drinking? Only drinking at home? Only drinking when a DD has been well-established ahead of time? Plan ahead of time for you to pick her up before she even goes out?

It just seems to me that it might be in everybody's best interest if there are no ambiguities about how a similar situation might be handled in the future, after the pain, anguish and humiliation of the experience has somewhat dissipated.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by boberot

Wow, I am really impressed by your mature and measured response to this: Give her the support she needs now, but make sure she knows there is ZERO TOLERANCE for this in the future. She is damn lucky to have you.

If I might be so bold, I would suggest in the "serious discussions" that are forthcoming, I would actually spell out what the limits will be from here on out. No more drinking? Only drinking at home? Only drinking when a DD has been well-established ahead of time? Plan ahead of time for you to pick her up before she even goes out?

It just seems to me that it might be in everybody's best interest if there are no ambiguities about how a similar situation might be handled in the future, after the pain, anguish and humiliation of the experience has somewhat dissipated.

Thanks boberot, after my initial reaction I have tried to be logical, compassionate, yet still realistic. I know opinions vary wildly, some thinking I am being too easy on her and some too harsh and that's fine. There has been good discussion on this thread and many good points, even though some may conflict with my approach, good points nonetheless.

You are right, I think the worst thing at this point would be to allow any ambiguity to creep into this situation. Future actions, consequences and support need to specific and understood and we will definitely go that route. Her Car is impounded for 30 days at $50 a day and we can't get it prior to them. This is going to be a very expensive mistake so the plan of action going forward will definitely be well defined.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Almost. Any crime where the authorized punishment is more than six months allows you the right to trial by jury: FindLaw | Cases and Codes

The thrust of your post--that people have rights which we should not casually discard--is, of course, correct.

It is correct that people have rights that they should not casually disregard, but it is equally correct that exercising a right isn't always the "right" thing to do, which I think makes Bucc's point equally as valid.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Once again, actual guilt and legal guilt are two separate things. No one's really disputing that BYU's wife is innocent here, given what we know.

I don't have an issue with people saying she's wrong for what she did, and guilty on a personal (not legal) manner, and for saying she needs to get help. All this has been said, and I agree with it.

But a number of people here seem to suggest she should throw away her rights to a legal trial, perhaps to throw herself at the mercy of the law. What will truly help her is already being done, by BYU, by his family and support circle, and hopefully by herself. If that is enough for this not to happen again, I would not wish jail or criminal punishment on her, for that is an extremely trying event in someone's life, the sort of thing that can lead to long term negative impacts personally, psychologically and professionally for the rest of her life that far outstrip fair punishment for her original crime. I think the people advocating she not try to fight the legal aspect of this have no real idea what they are submitting she put herself through, and perhaps if they did, they would not be so quick to strip her of her rights.

P.S. BTW, all criminal acts, even a parking ticket, can be contested with a jury trial, if the defendant so wishes. I don't know enough on the statistics to know how common or rare that is, but every alleged criminal has this same right, no matter the offense. "Right to trial by jury of their peers", in the Bill of Rights.

Nobody's disputing the existence of rights. But rights are choices. Having the opinion that someone should take responsibility for their actions, and not fight every available technicality, is not un-American (unless of course, you're a judge, or a prosecutor, and take that viewpoint to work with you and punish people for exercising their rights). The defendant is of course, free to disagree, and the government can't stop her. But others have another fairly important right, free speech, to openly disagree with that course of action.

[PilotMan]

Hey man, there has already been a lot said in this thread. All I have to add is that my thoughts are with you. Hopefully, it hasn't ruined your holiday. I think that you are making the right choices here. It is apparent that the two of you are on the same wavelength and that you can work this out together. Thank God that nobody was hurt. Hang in there, I will be thinking about you.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Hey man, there has already been a lot said in this thread. All I have to add is that my thoughts are with you. Hopefully, it hasn't ruined your holiday. I think that you are making the right choices here. It is apparent that the two of you are on the same wavelength and that you can work this out together. Thank God that nobody was hurt. Hang in there, I will be thinking about you.

Thanks buddy,
Since the arraignment is not until the 30th we definitely won't let it put a damper on Christmas, though we have a lot to do before then. We will definitely work this out and I have to believe it will make better people of both of us in the long term.

[Grammaticus]

BYU, I hope this goes as well as it can for you and your family. I am glad to see that you indicated you will get an attorney. I'm sure whatever the outcome, punishment will be a part of the process.

You owe it to yourself and your family to mitigate the financial impact over the long run. A DUI can cost a lot of money in increased auto insurance, job opportunities, etc.

If you feel jail time it the right approach then your attorney could try to negotiate a lighter offense with jail time as punishment. Or maybe you would see 30 days of community service as a more productive form of punishment. For example, I know a guy who had to shovel manure at a horse farm as part of a punishment for writing bad checks. Maybe your wife has a skill that can help someone else out as part of community service. That may be cheaper to the county and in the end more productive for all.

Best of luck to you and your wife.

[Drake]

Hmm. If I were you, I'd see if your lawyer -- per Grammaticus's suggestion above -- could have the possibility of jail time commuted to community service...in like a Drug and Alcohol Treatment facility.

I think that could be a great eye-opener for your wife.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Drake

Hmm. If I were you, I'd see if your lawyer -- per Grammaticus's suggestion above -- could have the possibility of jail time commuted to community service...in like a Drug and Alcohol Treatment facility.

I think that could be a great eye-opener for your wife.

Not sure how it works where this occurred, but here in Wisconsin, every person convicted of DWI is required to undergo a drug and alcohol assessment followed by treatment. So if it's similar at all, this will already be in the cards.

We also have the ankle bracelet and house arrest, like I said earlier. Basically you serve the first 48 hours of the sentence in jail and then you are released. The rest of the sentence you serve at home or at work and some other provisions that are strictly pointed out before you are released on the bracelet. Any fuck ups while out on the bracelet and you are back in the clink. Oh, and they can show up at your house any time to see if you are drunk and/or drug test you.

[Drake]

Not sure how it works where this occurred, but here in Wisconsin, every person convicted of DWI is required to undergo a drug and alcohol assessment followed by treatment. So if it's similar at all, this will already be in the cards.

Yeah, that's the way it works in Indiana, too.

My experience has been that people only change destructive behaviors when directly confronted with the "I don't want to turn out like *that* guy" scenario, so I'm a big supporter of these sorts of requirements.

[Kodos]

I'd just like to compliment BYU for the manner in which he is handling this. I doubt I would fare as well.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'd just like to compliment BYU for the manner in which he is handling this. I doubt I would fare as well.

What he said

SI

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Once again, actual guilt and legal guilt are two separate things. No one's really disputing that BYU's wife is innocent here, given what we know.

As someone who normally agree with everything you have said about giving up your rights and have personally witnessed a police officer and a prosecutor lie simply to prosecute a simple traffic ticket, I completely agree with everything you've said about protecting your rights and making sure you don't get hosed by the justice system. My experience is that too many judges and pretty much all prosecutors assume everyone before them is guilty and don't give a damn about the facts -- they only care about legal shenanigans.

That said, the idea that actual guilt and legal guilt is crap. Guilt is guilt. The fact that we have a system that makes it easy for lawbreakers to fight the system and get away with crap while people who do the right thing and are simply naive get screwed is a major flaw in our society. Far too many people refused to take responsibility for their actions and we all pay a price for it.

After our experience in court, I will never even fight a jaywalking ticket again without a lawyer. You absolutely have to do that, or you could very easily end up doing 6 months in a jail for a 30-day crime. But arguing that you have no criminal liability when you have committed a crime is a moral wrong no matter how you phrase it.

All the best, BYU. I've never had this situation with a someone so close but I've had the talk with friends and the reactions vary. Good luck to both of you.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

But arguing that you have no criminal liability when you have committed a crime is a moral wrong no matter how you phrase it.

Well, yeah, that was my point. There's moral wrong, and legal wrong. Some things that are morally wrong or reprehensible or at least questionable are completely legal. And not all laws are viewed as good or effective laws, meaning their legal "correctness" is socially wrong, or at least perceived to be so.

I never said BYU's wife wasn't wrong for what she did. But to advocate throwing her rights away because of it, as many seem to suggest in this thread? Foolishness. Utter and complete naivete on a level I see few places.

[Buccaneer]

Matt, the most important thing is that she changes her destructive behavior. There are many ways to do that. For some, it would take a little jail time. For others, counseling. And for some, love and support. The civil consequences are what they are and it should be played out, with all the rights that can be afforded. But that's not the point. The civil courts can determine a legal verfict but if she does not change, then nothing is gained.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Matt, the most important thing is that she changes her destructive behavior. There are many ways to do that. For some, it would take a little jail time. For others, counseling. And for some, love and support. The civil consequences are what they are and it should be played out, with all the rights that can be afforded. But that's not the point. The civil courts can determine a legal verfict but if she does not change, then nothing is gained.

Very good point, Steve. She could very well throw herself on the mercy of the court, and yet, if she does not learn her lesson, what gain has been made? Completely agree that regardless of guilt, right or wrong, moral or legal, rights or no rights, if she does not correct her behavior, all of this discussion is moot and valueless. Godspeed to BYU and his wife (hopefully) in their efforts to correct her issue here.

[BYU 14]

Well, nearly 4 months in the court system this was finally resolved last week.

I am quite pleased at the outcome because it has been enough of an ordeal to make her realize and acknowledge that this behavior is completely unacceptable and that the ramifications of her mistake have had a seriously adverse impact on both herself and all those that love her. Even more important, in light of several high profile DUI tragedies that occurred during the course of the legal proceedings, it made her realize how fortunate she truly is that didn't destroy the lives of any innocent people or the lives of her family.

Our Attorney did a good job, but her punishment is still harsh enough that the reminders of what a responsible adult does NOT do will be engraved into her mind by the time this is behind us.

Here is the Docket
180 days in Jail broken down as follows
45 suspended
15 days of consecutive confinement in "Tent City" beginning next weekend.
119 days on house arrest with work privileges only.
1 day credited for time served.

$3700 in fines

30 hours of community service to be completed by July

Completetion of an accedited drug and alcohol program

1 year license revocation

1 year mandatory interlocking ignition device after her license is restored

4 years unsupervised probation, any mistakes will result in the 45 days that were suspended being served consecutively with no work release.

In addition to this other costs include a one time fee for enrolling in house arrest + 15 a day for the entire span of her house arrest period for monitoring costs = $2085 for the entire process. We also need to get an additional dedicated phone line just for check purposes (no call waiting, no 3 way etc)

75 per month for the ignition device = $900

Total cost for this "mistake" including fines, attorney fees, misc court costs and the cost for the required classes about $12,000

The fact that nobody ended up hurt or dead = priceless!!!

This really is a good thing considering the states initial offer was 4 months straight jail time (with work release after 15 days) plus must of the other things she will be doing. I really want this lesson to be learned, but I am very happy she will not be away from us for more than those first 15 days and I guess that may be selfish, but I do love and support her and our relationship came through this unscathed, which is also important.

I believe that the punishment was more than far and still harsh enough to make the impact needed to insure that this never, ever happens again!! Life sometimes has tough lessons and they are even tougher when they are learned as a result of our own stupidity, which fortunately in this case did not effect anybody innocent.

We are glad this is over and she already has her community service set up, has been receiving counseling from our minister the whoel time and is determined to make this a positive experience, which is the attitude and approach I really hoped to see.

[jeff061]

Really, if those terms don't prevent someone from making this mistake again nothing would. No matter how harsh.

[Swaggs]

What does "Tent City" mean?

Punishment sounds pretty brutal (although obviously it is pretty justified). Do you all have children? How are they taking it? I would think it would be tough for your wife to try to explain this situation to them.

[kcchief19]

To a certain degree the punishment is irrelevant if it's something your family can live with and the lesson is learned. I imagine based on what you've been through and the punishment that if there is a next time it will be the last time for many things.

All the best -- it speaks a lot for you how you've handled this. This has got to be hardship on you from a situation that was none of your own making and you've stood by her and seem to be at peace with the resolution. In a similar situation I'd like to think I'd be as forgiving without bitterness and judgment. You're a good guy, and I hope she appreciates that.

[jeff061]

The harshness is due to the second offense I'd think.

Without going into my messed up childhood too much, my mom got nailed for a DUI when I was around 12. My reaction was "bout time" and not much more. Hopefully life is happier in the BYU household .

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

What does "Tent City" mean?

Welcome to Phoenix.

CNN - Arizona criminals find jail too in-'tents' - July 27, 1999

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Welcome to Phoenix.

CNN - Arizona criminals find jail too in-'tents' - July 27, 1999

Wow... I started reading that and it seemed familiar. I think I have read it before (I see it is from '99).

Sounds pretty unpleasant.

[BYU 14]

LOL, Tent City is the Utopia of Jails. Our Sheriff is a hard ass (which I like) but a publicity whore as well (which I don't) Anyway, SunDevil's link sums it up nicely.

Thanks for the words guys, I will say one thing that makes it easy to be supportive (yet firm) is I know she would do the exact same for me, no questions asked. She really is a great woman, I am lucky to have her in my life and want to keep her for a long time, we have a lot left experience together! I am only grateful she is committed to correcting this behavior and is accepting accountability, as she should.

We do have kids, but they are all older (26,23,20,20 and 17) so it has been easy for the most part to involve them. They are concerned for her and have been supportive, but also firm in that they also never want to go through this again.

[Dutch]

Remind me not to be a criminal in Arizona.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

We do have kids, but they are all older (26,23,20,20 and 17) so it has been easy for the most part to involve them. They are concerned for her and have been supportive, but also firm in that they also never want to go through this again.

That's a way to take one for the team, eh? I hope you wife can stop drinking and driving. I know that quitting smoking was the hardest thing I ever did, and all I had to do was nothing. Weird how that works. But other people have stopped, so she can too. Good luck and be patient and be there for her.

[tarcone]

Wow. thats a rough judgment. Thanks for posting all of this. It is a harsh reminder to all not to drink and drive.

For her community service, could she go to your 17 yr olds high school and give a pre-prom speech on the devastating effects of drinking and driving?

[RainMaker]

Glad things worked out for you in the end and that you are happy with the result. As an average citizen, the sentence seems harsh but fair. I'm glad our court system is punishing DUIs like this.

Did they happen to say what would happen to her if she is caught again?

[MizzouRah]

What she did was very wrong.. but damn who was your attorney?

[Oilers9911]

Holy shit. That's tough sentencing. Canada is far too lenient on this sort of thing.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What she did was very wrong.. but damn who was your attorney?

That's what I was thinking, too.

Not that the crime wasn't very, very serious, but I've known a few people w/ DUIs that paid $1k-$2K and gotten charges dropped altogether or lessened. Maybe Arizona has really strict enforcement on DUIs.

Anyway, sorry this happened, BYU. It sounds like you could not have handled things any better, between balancing not going overboard while making it clear that this was a critical mistake that she made. Hopefully, she will come out of this well.

[sterlingice]

IIRC, isn't this the second DUI which is why the penalties are so harsh?

Frankly, I'd almost be ok with those being penalties for first timers. Again, we tend to severely undervalue how bad DUIs are in this country but I don't want to badly threadjack this here and we've done this in other threads. Jailtime is harsh so maybe I'd make some change to that and perhaps some way to mitigate the costs of the house arrest and breathalizer device as dropping a $12K bill on some single 22 year old who is still in college is even more crippling than $12K on the average person. But, the point remains- the penalties should be extremely harsh for DUIs as you can *kill* people easily.

SI

[Chief Rum]

Gawd, that guy Arpaio's an asshole. How Draconian. Surprised he gets away with all that. Is he also the guy that has inmates wear pink uniforms (although I thought that was at an indoor prison).

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Gawd, that guy Arpaio's an asshole. How Draconian. Surprised he gets away with all that. Is he also the guy that has inmates wear pink uniforms (although I thought that was at an indoor prison).

The article says he makes them wear pink underwear.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

The article says he makes them wear pink underwear.

Yeah, I noted that. I know it's whole pink convict unis now, though, at least somewhere in Phoenix (if not in "Tent City"), and not just underwear. Barkley had to wear one for his jail time.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

That's what I was thinking, too.

Not that the crime wasn't very, very serious, but I've known a few people w/ DUIs that paid $1k-$2K and gotten charges dropped altogether or lessened. Maybe Arizona has really strict enforcement on DUIs.

Anyway, sorry this happened, BYU. It sounds like you could not have handled things any better, between balancing not going overboard while making it clear that this was a critical mistake that she made. Hopefully, she will come out of this well.

I have a DWI and I paid $500 plus had to go to weekend classes.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I have a DWI and I paid $500 plus had to go to weekend classes.

I know a guy that I worked with in North Carolina got one and paid a lawyer $1,000 and he had no fine, took a similar class, and just lost his license for a month (which was held from him pending the outcome).

[Lathum]

I think the fact that it is DUI #2 makes a big difference