Mass shooting in Las Vegas

[digamma]

How about this for a narrative?

The difference between the US and other developed nations in terms of shooting deaths (mass shootings or otherwise) is the access to firearms (and high powered firearms) in the US, regardless of color, creed, political affiliation, gender, or otherwise.

We can choose to do something about that or not.

[ColtCrazy]

Watched the video of the concert where the shots started. Aldean leaves the stage. No one said a word to the crowd to run, anything. You have people mulling about in some areas that had no idea what happened.

[CraigSca]

In the state of Florida there is a 3-day wait for the purchase of a handgun, but there's no wait if you want to purchase an assault rifle, so that's cool.

[djsatu]

What a sad way to start a Monday. Terrible terrible news. More love not war please.

[Ben E Lou]

New update from the sheriff: 58 or 59 dead, 515 injured

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

In the state of Florida there is a 3-day wait for the purchase of a handgun, but there's no wait if you want to purchase an assault rifle, so that's cool.

That's not true.
To purchase an assault rifle you are required to have a class 3 tax stamp. Which takes months and months to acquire and requires FBI and ATF background checks.

Now if you just mean to purchase a long gun or rifle, then yes you can instant background check and purchase.

Not that it changes anything but I'd bet dollars to donuts that when its all out this guy illegally modified a semi auto platform into a full auto. You cant do that legally period.

[Ben E Lou]

At same news conference, a rep from the FBI reiterates that they have zero evidence of any foreign involvement.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Those last two statements show just how fucked up this country can be sometimes. People's first thought after this is that they need more guns because I can't believe it's a lot of first time buyers driving up stocks. After Sandy Hook with people claiming it was fake, I lost hope of change ever being made.

It's only made sadder by the fact that it is so true.

Originally Posted by digamma

How about this for a narrative?

The difference between the US and other developed nations in terms of shooting deaths (mass shootings or otherwise) is the access to firearms (and high powered firearms) in the US, regardless of color, creed, political affiliation, gender, or otherwise.

We can choose to do something about that or not.

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me the need to own a fully auto assault rifle that is logical. I am totally pro 2nd amendment, but any weapon capable of mass casualties at this level, whether by design or through modification, should not be available to the general public. Unfortunately, there are so many of these fucking weapons out there now I don't see how you ever totally get this under control. Any legislation introduced would be tied up in red tape for months, if not years, which would just produce a feeding frenzy on purchasing these weapons.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me the need to own a fully auto assault rifle that is logical. I am totally pro 2nd amendment, but any weapon capable of mass casualties at this level, whether by design or through modification, should not be available to the general public. Unfortunately, there are so many of these fucking weapons out there now I don't see how you ever totally get this under control. Any legislation introduced would be tied up in red tape for months, if not years, which would just produce a feeding frenzy on purchasing these weapons.

Agree 100%. You want a handgun, shotgun or hunting rifle - no problem. But, an assault rifle? What reason could a normal citizen have for needing a weapon with that kind of firepower? It's crazy to me that we can't just have a little common sense with semi automatic assault rifles.

[HerRealName]

Fully autos are extremely difficult to obtain. I don't understand why anyone needs a semi-auto though. I'm sure others here disagree.

Who is responsible for the technology to mod a semi into more of a fully automatic? Is it a gun manufacturer ot a 3rd party company? Or is it something any guy could do on their own?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

Who is responsible for the technology to mod a semi into more of a fully automatic? Is it a gun manufacturer ot a 3rd party company? Or is it something any guy could do on their own?

It is a fairly trivial thing to do to convert an AK or AR to full auto. Little easier to do with an AK. It could be done by anyone with a minimum of mechanical know-how.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Arles

Agree 100%. You want a handgun, shotgun or hunting rifle - no problem. But, an assault rifle? What reason could a normal citizen have for needing a weapon with that kind of firepower? It's crazy to me that we can't just have a little common sense with semi automatic assault rifles.

Because the liberal government is gonna take your home. You saw how Obama mobilized the troops in Texas for Jade Helm!

[murrayyyyy]

Welp, left our airport store at 10PM last night so I was in the middle of the first wave of cops. Knew something must have been bad as they were doing well above 100 onto the 15 ramp to jump off on Russell. All the way home (I live well north of the strip) you'd see cop rolling with no sirens on but lit and flying down the highway.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Watched the video of the concert where the shots started. Aldean leaves the stage. No one said a word to the crowd to run, anything. You have people mulling about in some areas that had no idea what happened.

Nobody knew where the shots were coming from at that point. That's why so many people started yelling get down. In a large crowd with the shooter on street level that makes sense, but obviously, that won't work with an elevated shooter.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Welp, left our airport store at 10PM last night so I was in the middle of the first wave of cops. Knew something must have been bad as they were doing well above 100 onto the 15 ramp to jump off on Russell. All the way home (I live well north of the strip) you'd see cop rolling with no sirens on but lit and flying down the highway.

Was just checking this thread to make sure you weren't caught up in this.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me the need to own a fully auto assault rifle that is logical. I am totally pro 2nd amendment, but any weapon capable of mass casualties at this level, whether by design or through modification, should not be available to the general public. Unfortunately, there are so many of these fucking weapons out there now I don't see how you ever totally get this under control. Any legislation introduced would be tied up in red tape for months, if not years, which would just produce a feeding frenzy on purchasing these weapons.

This x a bazillion

[Edward64]

I can't imagine what his brother and mother is going through.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/10...trip-shooting/

[RainMaker]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens - The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[CrimsonFox]

Reports from his brother say "he liked burritos, hung out and stuff"

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Arles

Agree 100%. You want a handgun, shotgun or hunting rifle - no problem. But, an assault rifle? What reason could a normal citizen have for needing a weapon with that kind of firepower? It's crazy to me that we can't just have a little common sense with semi automatic assault rifles.

Historically the difficulty with specific gun bans has been defining them in legislation. Gun makers have found ways through technology or otherwise to modify designs to fit within the laws. It doesn't seem that difficult a concept but it has been, and as a result the specific weapons bans have not been very effective. Most effective in reducing gun deaths have been full background check laws (both sales from a licensed dealer and for private sales), but despite public popularity, those don't have much legislative traction. Instead this week, congress was scheduled to vote on legislation to curb restrictions on gun silencers and the other top legislative agenda was for concealed carry reciprocity between states (so a state like Massachusetts would have to honor a concealed carry permit issued in Texas under different regulations).

[RainMaker]

Will be interesting to see how much thought went into this. Obviously he planned to do something but I wonder if the concert was something he knew about well in advance or if it was an unfortunate coincidence.

The guy seems to have no social media presence and no criminal history. Unless he left a note there might not be a motive at all.

What a bizarre, terrible incident.

[RainMaker]

Democrats want tougher gun control laws but they also don't want people punished for breaking them. They also don't want a secure border to impede the flow of illegal weapons.

Republicans have gotten so caught up in being pro-gun that they have to support for increasingly ridiculous legislation (like legalizing silencers) to show allegiance to the NRA.

Nothing will change. Thought and prayers galore on social media though.

[NobodyHere]

I wonder if the shooter had a brain tumor, kind of like the Texas Bell Tower shooter

[larrymcg421]

Even Scalia explained (in DC vs Heller) why banning guns like the ones used in this attack wouldn't violate the 2nd Amendment:

Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Will be interesting to see how much thought went into this. Obviously he planned to do something but I wonder if the concert was something he knew about well in advance or if it was an unfortunate coincidence.

The guy seems to have no social media presence and no criminal history. Unless he left a note there might not be a motive at all.

What a bizarre, terrible incident.

This appears to have been planned. This is the 4th year this show has been held in Vegas. He got a room in the corner of Mandalay Bay where he could have access to the crowd. Early reports are his girlfriend, who is currently out of the country, works or worked at MB and he had her ID. Putting 2+2 together, I'm guessing he used her ID to access non-public areas which might have made it easier for him to get the weapons to the room.

She obviously wasn't there when it happened, but it will be interesting to see if further information suggests she might have known about something that was going to happen, or if he used her trip as part of his planning of a "lone wolf" attack.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Thought and prayers galore on social media though.

That ought to bring some of the victims back and prevent further episodes like this.

[NobodyHere]

Kudos to the cops who responded to the shooting.

[STK]

Wondering if this terrible event might be a catalyst for increased security presence in hotels.

I recall hotels in other parts of the world (ie India) having security setups similar to what you would find in an airport. Individuals and bags go through metal detector screening before they enter the hotel.

[cartman]

I'm also wondering how this is going to affect the Amazon Web Services conference in Vegas at the beginning of December. Supposed to be 30,000 people in attendance, and one of the conference events is an EDM concert outside at the Linq hotel.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by STK

Wondering if this terrible event might be a catalyst for increased security presence in hotels.

I recall hotels in other parts of the world (ie India) having security setups similar to what you would find in an airport. Individuals and bags go through metal detector screening before they enter the hotel.

interesting idea. Although I bring so much crap to gencon that would take me hours. :/


Also it would kill business at Motel 6.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Kodos

That ought to bring some of the victims back and prevent further episodes like this.

How about this: When you wake up and look at the
ceiling, maybe just say Thanks.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'm also wondering how this is going to affect the Amazon Web Services conference in Vegas at the beginning of December. Supposed to be 30,000 people in attendance, and one of the conference events is an EDM concert outside at the Linq hotel.

Just having booked this morning, I expect everything will go ahead with much tighter security. I do agree we are probably pretty close to bag searches and metal detectors for people checking in to hotels.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

How about this: When you wake up and look at the
ceiling, maybe just say Thanks.

Because I haven't been shot?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Because I haven't been shot?

I’m not god or whatever thing you believe, just be thankful. No offense. I’m really not all that smart. I just know that I wasn’t killed.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'm also wondering how this is going to affect the Amazon Web Services conference in Vegas at the beginning of December. Supposed to be 30,000 people in attendance, and one of the conference events is an EDM concert outside at the Linq hotel.

Or the Consumer Electronics Show in January.

[Kodos]

I have a higher standard that I'd like to see in place. It's great that I haven't been shot, and nobody in my family has been. I'm glad to be alive. But there are a ton of people out there who can no longer make that claim, so it is hard to be very thankful. Especially when Washington is owned by the NRA and nothing will be done to try to stop this madness. I'm tired of money and special interests winning out over common sense, whether it is pertaining to gun control, global warming, health care, or any number of other topics. Congress needs to get their collective heads out of their asses and address these problems. People are dying every day while they count their money and look the other way and offer thoughts and prayers to the latest victims.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I have a higher standard that I'd like to see in place. It's great that I haven't been shot, and nobody in my family has been. I'm glad to be alive. But there are a ton of people out there who can no longer make that claim, so it is hard to be very thankful. Especially when Washington is owned by the NRA and nothing will be done to try to stop this madness. I'm tired of money and special interests winning out over common sense, whether it is pertaining to gun control, global warming, health care, or any number of other topics. Congress needs to get their collective heads out of their asses and address these problems. People are dying every day while they count their money and look the other way and offer thoughts and prayers to the latest victims.

I love you.

[bob]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Or the Consumer Electronics Show in January.

Or Money 20/20 (FiTech trade show - think point of sales and other payment / money management technologies) that I will be attending in a few weeks.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I love you.

Thanks, Schmidty. But you can't have my Bud Light.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Especially when Washington is owned by the NRA and nothing will be done to try to stop this madness. I'm tired of money and special interests winning out over common sense, whether it is pertaining to gun control, global warming, health care, or any number of other topics.

We disagree, vehemently, over which ones of those issues common sense has even stood a chance about for the past decade or two.

And that is why this incident really ends up taking a back seat to the war for ideas, and fairly quickly.

And it's why,among other things, people defend the 2nd amendment so vociferously.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

It is a fairly trivial thing to do to convert an AK or AR to full auto. Little easier to do with an AK. It could be done by anyone with a minimum of mechanical know-how.

And, just for those unfamiliar, it's not anything particularly new. The ability has been around for at least several decades, and I'd guess longer than that (I only learned about it being a thing in maybe the early/mid 80s)

So afaik it isn't anything like new tech or new gun design or anything. (I'm sure the process has evolved, right along with design tweaks, but the basics aren't new)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This appears to have been planned. This is the 4th year this show has been held in Vegas. He got a room in the corner of Mandalay Bay where he could have access to the crowd. Early reports are his girlfriend, who is currently out of the country, works or worked at MB and he had her ID. Putting 2+2 together, I'm guessing he used her ID to access non-public areas which might have made it easier for him to get the weapons to the room.

She obviously wasn't there when it happened, but it will be interesting to see if further information suggests she might have known about something that was going to happen, or if he used her trip as part of his planning of a "lone wolf" attack.

Not a gun expert but I believe most of these rifles can be taken apart and fit into a suitcase. Don't think he needs special access at all. Just walk in with a few suitcases and setup shop. Maybe he made a few trips.

Sounds like his wife's card was used in the casino to play slots from the reports. I don't think she was an employee at the hotel.

Originally Posted by STK

Wondering if this terrible event might be a catalyst for increased security presence in hotels.

I recall hotels in other parts of the world (ie India) having security setups similar to what you would find in an airport. Individuals and bags go through metal detector screening before they enter the hotel.

I doubt it. These shootings are so commonplace that we forget about them in a matter of weeks. No one really talks about the Pulse nightclub shooting that happened just over a year ago. That was the deadliest shooting at the time. No one will talk about this one a year from now.

Maybe some hotels will add a few extra security guards for awhile to make the public feel safer but it's still Vegas. Kills the vibe to have metal detectors everywhere and armed guards checking your bags.

It's sad to say but these shootings don't change anything. It's just a tool used for people to argue politics and virtue signal for a few hours before we clean up the bodies and get back to talking about kneeling during anthems.

[CrimsonFox]

Lots of weird stories and incidents and conspiracy theories being spread already.

Like this one about a woman telling people they were going to die before the show started.

Las Vegas shooting: Woman told crowd 'you're all going to f***ing die' before attack started | The Independent

[Arles]

I would even be ok with like a 6-month waiting period and extra background checks for assault rifles. Most of the people who want them to break the law aren't going to have the patience to wait 6 months and/or pass the background. Atleast it would be a start. Right now, I can lose $5K at blackjack, get pissed, go get an assault rifle and light up the casino in the same weekend. I just don't get why we don't have long waiting periods for weapons capable of mass casualties.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Thanks, Schmidty. But you can't have my Bud Light.

I don’t drink anymore, but if I could give you a hug, I would.

[Izulde]

Just dropping in to let those of you who don't have me in the FB network that I'm okay (thankfully I had a design meeting this morning for my company's forthcoming website to prepare for, so stayed in).

Not partaking in the political discussion, though I'm mad right now at UNLV and CCSD for holding classes - particularly UNLV since the Thomas & Mack is being used as a staging area.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

That's not true.
To purchase an assault rifle you are required to have a class 3 tax stamp. Which takes months and months to acquire and requires FBI and ATF background checks.

Now if you just mean to purchase a long gun or rifle, then yes you can instant background check and purchase.

Not that it changes anything but I'd bet dollars to donuts that when its all out this guy illegally modified a semi auto platform into a full auto. You cant do that legally period.

Interesting. Not a gun guy, but I was shown a wall of guns and was told I could take one of these (to me they looked like assault rifles) home today, but would require a 3-day wait for the handgun.

[Galaril]

Good grief 58 dead and 515 injured! (SMH)

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Arles

Right now, I can lose $5K at blackjack, get pissed, go get an assault rifle and light up the casino in the same weekend.

No you can't

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Interesting. Not a gun guy, but I was shown a wall of guns and was told I could take one of these (to me they looked like assault rifles) home today, but would require a 3-day wait for the handgun.

I'm not sure what "looked like an assault rifle" means.
But there is a legal definition here. An assault rifle is capable of firing either fully automatic or semi-automatic with only the flip of a switch. If it isnt fully auto capable it isnt an assault rifle. Period.

I've went through this on this forum at least 2 other times. This is why the conversation breaks down. To a gun enthusiast this is akin to you saying "They need to ban people using PCs while driving. Just today I saw 15 people checking their text messages and instagram on a PC" when you really mean a tablet or a smart phone.

For there to be meaningful dialogue the opposition has to know what they are talking about.

Assault Rifles require a Class 3 tax stamp. (Just as an FYI - I am a class 3 holder. I dotn own any full auto but I do own multiple silencers. Same tax stamp required for a silencer as a full auto) You require 1 stamp for each piece of hardware you buy. Each stamp requires an FBI and ATF back ground check and once it is approved you get a form that requires personal review by the Local Sheriff and Chief of Police of the town in which you live or any you ahve lived in 5 years. I live in a small town. It took me 9 months to get my Class 3 stamp. In Charlotte, NC the wait for the Sheriff review is currently about 18 months AFTER you pass the FBI/ATF checks.

So anyone buying an assault rifle already has to wait a long time and have a spotless history (seriously excessive speeding tickets will disqualify you).

[tarcone]

Isnt the 2nd amendment set up to protect the people from government. So government making guns illegal is kind of why the 2nd amendment is there.

Prayers to all affected.