2012-13 NBA Regular Season Thread, Feel the Heat

[stevew]

This also likely keeps OKC way out of the tax in 2013-14, i have them around 65m.

And not to start a conspiracy, but if they trade Ibaka and amnesty Perkins, they could add LeBron in 2014.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Holy hell, did not see that coming. Thunder might get a bit worse short term yeah, but their window is pretty large. Let Lakers and Heat battle it out for the next 2 years, by then you've got Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka all still in their prime and you are ready to be the big dogs.

Martin is no Harden, but you can bring him in at the 2 and 3 spots and give him the greenlight basically. They have the depth at PG in the underrated Maynor, and Aldritch is addition by subtraction. No team with Westbrook and Durant is ever going to be a push-over though, and Ibaka might be ready for a breakout year too given how good he has looked this offseason. Harden or not, these guys are still a contendor.

It will be interesting to see who is responsible for passing

[RainMaker]

I don't understand the move for the Thunder at all unless it's all about money.

[stevew]

It seems to be alot about money. It's also not an insignificant amount of money either, though. I know that owners love to sell poverty to the fans, but it was going to be like 20m or more a year once they started paying the double top secret penalty amounts.

[stevew]

saw this on deadspin. Obviously groundbreaking work by Broussard, once again.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

It seems to be alot about money. It's also not an insignificant amount of money either, though. I know that owners love to sell poverty to the fans, but it was going to be like 20m or more a year once they started paying the double top secret penalty amounts.

Yeah, the way I see it, the Thunder have decided they have two top-10 guys on max deals, a big contract on a young bigman in Ibaka, which means Harden at max is a luxury they can't afford to have. So now they have Martin coming on the court at the 2/3 spots for scoring, a promising young SG in Lamb, and some draft picks that may turn out to be decent players. Would you rather have Martin&Lamb than Harden in 2012-13? Of course not, but given the circumstances the Thunder have done pretty well IMO.

As for the Rockets, well, let's see what Harden can do as "the man". 25-5-3 is reachable IMO, though so is 18ppg on bad shooting numbers.

[Crapshoot]

Meh, I'm with Simmons. This is a team that is minting money and deciding to step back in a year when they have a legitimate title shot, because the owner is being cheap. The idiots (and I'm not saying here) blaming Harden for this are surreal.

[Groundhog]

Anyone who blames Harden is just angry... he's clearly a max player, and definitely a step ahead of, say, Eric Gordon. But I still say Thunder made the right move. If this was a video game, yeah, you give Harden the money and run off a bunch of championships, but in real life you have to be a bit more sensible for a bunch of reasons, not just the tax. I think with Durant and Westbrook, Serge is more important than Harden.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Anyone who blames Harden is just angry... he's clearly a max player, and definitely a step ahead of, say, Eric Gordon. But I still say Thunder made the right move. If this was a video game, yeah, you give Harden the money and run off a bunch of championships, but in real life you have to be a bit more sensible for a bunch of reasons, not just the tax. I think with Durant and Westbrook, Serge is more important than Harden.

Martin if he can stay healthy can probably stay close enough to Harden offensively but that guy is just brutal on defense. An opposing shooting guard constantly blows up on him. Im really not sure this was the right time to trade Harden.

[sterlingice]

I like Martin a lot on offense but after the rule changes last year and the "basketball reasons" trade, his offensive production went way down. He's a horrible sieve on defense. If he's offensively producing, he can more than make up for that but if he isn't, then he's a liability.

SI

[stevew]

If the Rockets could just add a good big guy like Luis Scola or someone, I'd say they could compete.

[duckman]

Harden wasn't exactly stellar on defense. He had problems going against the better guards. I don't think Martin starts, so he'll go against 2nd unit guards which should help minimize his impact on that end.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

If the Rockets could just add a good big guy like Luis Scola or someone, I'd say they could compete.

I think they're just going to super glue together the 6 or 7 PFs still on the roster to make one giant PF!

That and they needed the salary space for the potential other deals that fell through.

I really like Scola, miss him, and wish him well in Phoenix.

SI

[korme]

Very interesting to see how Harden will do as "the guy". I think this was a move OKC didn't want to make but ultimately had to. They'll be fine

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

- they took a team from the 14th largest tv market (and best sports town) to a city w/ the 45th largest tv market. if they stay in seattle the cost benefit of the luxury tax may be worth it (probably not with these owners. but it's a thought)

- presti is more lucky than good. before the wave of lottery picks he was considered the worst gm in the league. his refusal to amnesty perkins is failing to admit defeat. plus, if there's any truth that they were offered the 2nd pick straight up for harden then this deal looks really really bad. you have a highly coveted asset and you downgraded. and you didn't even test his market value you surrendered to morey in a pouty fit. just bad gm-ing

- this is your future thunder fans. even after making the finals your owners will never go all in

[sooner333]

Worst GM because he should have locked up Rashard Lewis long term?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

blew up a team that won the west (reg season)
ray allen and glen davis for wally sczerbiak/delonte west/jeff green
got only a 2nd and a trade exc. for rashard lewis (who was a top ten guy at the time) and it was otis smith ffs
hired pj carlesimo (brooks fell into the job)

unless you buy into the idea they tanked on purpose. he did fleece colangelo(or kerr, can't remember)

[stevew]

If you have elite players drop in your lap in 3 straight drafts, you look good.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

anyone that believes in karma has never followed sports. irsay turns the hijacked colts into 30 years of manning/luck. modell steals the browns and immediately wins a sb. and now the zombie sonics

seinfeld was right. you're just cheering for laundry.

[sooner333]

The Sonics won the Northwest Division in 04-05 and didn't make the playoffs after that. They won 35 games in 05-06 and 31 games in 06-07. Presti was hired after the latter campaign. Sure, he blew up a team, but it was not one that was on an upward trend.

[Leroy Veritas]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

anyone that believes in karma has never followed sports. irsay turns the hijacked colts into 30 years of manning/luck. modell steals the browns and immediately wins a sb. and now the zombie sonics

seinfeld was right. you're just cheering for laundry.

The Colts had 5 winning seasons in their first 15 in Indianapolis, none above 9 wins. They sucked for quite a while after leaving Baltimore.

The Browns left Cleveland because the city wouldn't help replace the dump the Browns were playing in. That wasn't a team being stolen, it was a city letting them leave. It took them 5 years to have a winning season, where they won a SB, and they haven't made one in 10 years since then.

Just like Cleveland, Seattle refused to replace the dump of an arena and the owners didn't wait around. A bad team left a city that prioritized other things. That's the reality of sports in a franchise system.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i got nothing against okc fans. but your owner deserves the bobcats

the real asshole in all this is the portand doctor who green lit a gimp legged center with progeria

[albionmoonlight]

If you want to maximize your return on investment, put your money in the stock market.

I don't understand the logic of owning a major-league pro sports team and then trying to run it on the cheap. Yeah, it would be hella-expensive to pay Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. But so what? Things that are awesome are sometimes expensive. And if being awesome isn't the point, then why are you owning a sports team? There's better ways to make money.

[Chief Rum]

My playoff predictions:

West

1. Lakers
2. Spurs
3. Thunder
4. Clippers
5. Jazz
6. Grizzlies
7. Nuggets
8. Mavs

East

1. Miami
2. New Jersey
3. Boston (better record than Central Division champ)
4. Indiana
5. Philadelphia
6. Atlanta
7. New York
8. Chicago

Lakers over Thunder in WCF
Heat over Celtics in ECF

Heat over Lakers in Finals

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If you want to maximize your return on investment, put your money in the stock market.

I don't understand the logic of owning a major-league pro sports team and then trying to run it on the cheap. Yeah, it would be hella-expensive to pay Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. But so what? Things that are awesome are sometimes expensive. And if being awesome isn't the point, then why are you owning a sports team? There's better ways to make money.

used to be. times have changed. most leagues are set up now to prevent owners from losing money. and tv contracts are $$$

even the teams that claim poverty are lying out their ass. they won't open their books because they're shuttling money out the backdoor through proxy company contracts

[Chief Rum]

NTO, you seem riled up. You need a movie draft.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If you want to maximize your return on investment, put your money in the stock market.

I don't understand the logic of owning a major-league pro sports team and then trying to run it on the cheap. Yeah, it would be hella-expensive to pay Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. But so what? Things that are awesome are sometimes expensive. And if being awesome isn't the point, then why are you owning a sports team? There's better ways to make money.

If you're that rich, playing the stock market is a sucker's bet. You want to be up against Goldman Sachs and their dirty pool or quant traders who are sucking the fractions of pennies out of your stock value every millisecond? You buy whole companies or franchises- something you can mostly control.

The Stock Market is still for Suckers and why you should put your money in the bank « blog maverick

SI

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

love sports. hate everything to do with sports. frustrated roto geek. sorry for threadjacking. way way too much coffee

edit: re chief- soon. though frankly every time i have an idea for a remake i find out they're already remaking it. in the future hollywood will make the same 20 movies every 60 days

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

If you have elite players drop in your lap in 3 straight drafts, you look good.

Durant fell into their lap, but you have to give him some credit for picking Westbrook and Harden. Neither one was a consensus sure thing coming into the draft.

[Groundhog]

From memory Harden was picked around where he was expected, but Westbrook was certainly not a sure thing. Westbrook and Holiday are good examples as to why elite PGs should seemingly not attend UCLA...

[stevew]

Chad Ford had Westbrook going #4 and Harden or Rubio were the logical #3 picks that year.

At least nobody drafted Joe Alexander...wow.

[stevew]

I know Delonte West is a head case, but he should be on a team. Pretty sad when the mavs dump you for friggin Eddy Curry.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

Chad Ford had Westbrook going #4 and Harden or Rubio were the logical #3 picks that year.

At least nobody drafted Joe Alexander...wow.

For some reason I though Westbrook was projected lower. And Joe Alexander... lol... Forgot all about that guy. Now plying his trade in Russia apparently.

[BishopMVP]

Neither was a huge reach either, but both had question marks coming out of college. With Harden it was whether he had the mindset to be a great NBA player (other options were Tyreke Evans or Steph Curry - they wouldn't have gone Rubio with Westbrook already there), and with Westbrook it was whether the production would ever match the talent. It's easy with hindsight to say that any GM would have picked them, but really Durant was the only one that "fell into their lap". You have to give some credit to Presti on the other two - just remember, 60% of GM's with picks before them thought Hasheem Thabeet, OJ Mayo and Michael Beasley were better players.

[Warhammer]

Thabeet was never expected to be good here. Most Grizz fans were ticked to have that pick as we knew he was never going to pan out. The problem was if you have a guy with his size you almost have to take him because if he pans out he's going to be a beast. That said, Thabeet had so many red flags coming out we should have stayed far away from him.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

From memory Harden was picked around where he was expected, but Westbrook was certainly not a sure thing. Westbrook and Holiday are good examples as to why elite PGs should seemingly not attend UCLA...

Okay, if you're talking about not getting to be in a system where their offensive skills stand iut, I hear ya, but otherwise, you're nuts. UCLA is what made Westbrook Westbrook, and also the system that developed Collison, Farmar and Afflalo. Holiday was only there a year, so he probably took a little less out of the experience, but seriously, elite PGs should be running to UCLA with what they have been doing for the position of late.

[Groundhog]

Kyrie Irving and Varejao were amazing - Varejao with 9 pts 23 rebounds and 9 amazing assists, and Dion Waiters pretty impressive tonight as the Cavs took down the Wizards. Byron Scott nearly lost them this game by playing that 2nd unit altogether for large stretches, especially the first 4 minutes of the 4th Q. They just aren't good enough for that, need to be sprinkled in with the starters.

[stevew]

We still have like 3 mainstream rotation players plus Irving and Verejao. If Andy is still healthy in 35 games he needs to be split into young players. Andy to the Rockets for 2 PF and Royce White.

[MrBug708]

So nice to have a terrible FT shooting center again. 3-14?

[korme]

Yeah, the Cavs not dealing Andy for something is mind boggling. He sure could help a contender.

And, what in the fuck were the Lakers doing on offense? Motion offense, great, take the ball out of the best playmaking PG in decades' hands. Mike Brown, everybody!

Thanks to that, and the Heat absolutely being on fire I started my gambling season off 0-2 missing the Celtics +7 and Lakers -9

[Logan]

The Knicks - Nets game scheduled for tomorrow night has finally been cancelled.

[heybrad]

The excuse for Mike Brown last year was that he didn't have an entire training camp to implement his offense. I wonder what the excuse will be this year. I was baffled as I watched Nash bring the ball up court, pass it off to Artest and then go stand on the wing. Artest would stand there or dribble for 15 seconds and then hand it off to somebody for a last minute heave. If that's the plan why did they bother to get Nash?

I figured it would take some time for the new players to mesh and it's only been the preseason and 1 regular season game, but the Lakers look horrid so far.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Minnesota is too white......

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/20...o-racial-bias/

[Logan]

According to Woj, Harden has signed the 5 year, $80 million deal with Houston.

[Desnudo]

He's assuming Kahn has a strategy

[sterlingice]

I would like to help the civil rights struggles of those poor Minnesotians by offering the opportunity to trade Kevin Love to Houston.

I'm sure other teams would similarly like to help them out with their Ricky Rubio problem


SI

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I would like to help the civil rights struggles of those poor Minnesotians by offering the opportunity to trade Kevin Love to Houston.

SI

I like how you think!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by heybrad

The excuse for Mike Brown last year was that he didn't have an entire training camp to implement his offense. I wonder what the excuse will be this year. I was baffled as I watched Nash bring the ball up court, pass it off to Artest and then go stand on the wing. Artest would stand there or dribble for 15 seconds and then hand it off to somebody for a last minute heave. If that's the plan why did they bother to get Nash?

I figured it would take some time for the new players to mesh and it's only been the preseason and 1 regular season game, but the Lakers look horrid so far.

Mike Brown doesn't have an offense. It's people standing around and shooting near the clock. And transition.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I like how you think!

I'm just trying to be civic minded! (and finish the Rockets rebuild in just under a week's time)

SI

[stevew]

Originally Posted by korme

Yeah, the Cavs not dealing Andy for something is mind boggling. He sure could help a contender.

And, what in the fuck were the Lakers doing on offense? Motion offense, great, take the ball out of the best playmaking PG in decades' hands. Mike Brown, everybody!

Thanks to that, and the Heat absolutely being on fire I started my gambling season off 0-2 missing the Celtics +7 and Lakers -9

I think the thing is that everyone recognizes that he will get hurt and miss large chunks of the season. The Cavs probably also recognize that they are a much better team when he is on the floor and they are attempting to put forth a decent product for the fans.