2015 NFL Week 2

[Julio Riddols]

I'm thinking Manning really is shot. As the season wear on, unless his arm magically gains strength, teams are just going to load the box and make him try to beat them down the field. My guess as this point is that he will not be able to. The Broncos are going to have to make a decision who to start at about mid season if he keeps this up.

[BillJasper]

The calling card of an Andy Reid coached team: an inability to put people away.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

The calling card of an Andy Reid coached team: an inability to put people away.

He really hates running the football too.

[bhlloy]

I absolutely hate what the Chiefs have done on defense. There is no reason to have DBs running 20 yards downfield given what the Broncos have shown. Manning is still smart enough to pick you apart if you give him a target.

And yup, as bad as some of those throws were that was still coming the way they were playing him

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I'm thinking Manning really is shot. As the season wear on, unless his arm magically gains strength, teams are just going to load the box and make him try to beat them down the field. My guess as this point is that he will not be able to. The Broncos are going to have to make a decision who to start at about mid season if he keeps this up.

Why the hell haven't the Chiefs done this tonight? Do they realize you can adjust your gameplan once the game has started? They haven't been beaten over the top once and the corners are still dropping off and the safeties are playing deep

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I absolutely hate what the Chiefs have done on defense. There is no reason to have DBs running 20 yards downfield given what the Broncos have shown. Manning is still smart enough to pick you apart if you give him a target.

And yup, as bad as some of those throws were that was still coming the way they were playing him

I don't know if they gave him a target. The KC DbS have on the Bronco receivers like scotch tape.

[BillJasper]

L!O!L!

[kingfc22]

Oh my...

[Galaril]

Holy fuck.

[EagleFan]

Wow

[JonInMiddleGA]

OMG !!!

Bwahahahahaha

[EagleFan]

Was that knee down?

[EagleFan]

Guess not.

[bhlloy]

Totally deserved. Awful coaching on both sides of the ball.

[kingfc22]

14 points KC could have avoided by simply kneeling on the ball.

[BillJasper]

So the Chiefs turned the ball over five times?

[Julio Riddols]

Wow.

[RainMaker]

That was something else.

[BillJasper]

My hat off to Manning. His arm is obviously shot, but he is still the smartest QB in the NFL.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

14 points KC could have avoided by simply kneeling on the ball.

QFT

[JonInMiddleGA]

Never in doubt ... right?

[Glengoyne]

Oh and I do love Andy Reid.

[thesloppy]

The Broncos had zero business winning that game, but KC just couldn't keep from choking.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

14 points KC could have avoided by simply kneeling on the ball.

I'm definitely struggling to understand the clock management issues we saw Sunday night with the Giants and tonight with the Chiefs. These guys get paid millions to make these decisions and it seems fans have a better grasp on how these situations should be handled.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

The Broncos had zero business winning that game, but KC just couldn't keep from choking.

The defense forced five turnovers. Whether it was through KC incompetence or not, Denver made the plays they needed to make.

[Logan]

Yeesh.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I'm definitely struggling to understand the clock management issues we saw Sunday night with the Giants and tonight with the Chiefs. These guys get paid millions to make these decisions and it seems fans have a better grasp on how these situations should be handled.

I'll always love Andy for what he did for the Eagles, but time management and a lot of times game management, were not his strong suit.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

The Broncos had zero business winning that game, but KC just couldn't keep from choking.

Then who does deserve to win this game? Denver doesn't. KC turned the ball over 5 times, they sure as hell didn't. It's not like KC DOMINTATED this game without the turnovers. it was a game that was going to be within a score for most of the game. This game could have been a blowout both ways if a handful of plays turned out differently. At the end of the day, we can say KC choked, but the reality is Peyton Manning took Denver 80 yards in just over 2 minutes to tie that game.

Manning, flat out, needs to stay in the shotgun. The OLine is simply not good enough. There were plays where the play action had an open receiver down the field (even though we can't run the ball at all). Peyton didn't have time to see him. Anytime he was under center, he had pressure by the time he got a step back and it has nothing to do with him being slow.

I mean, I read here where he can only throw balls inside the hashes 8 to 12 yards and watched a TD 20 yards down the field. His arm is weak, but he is not done. The OLine is done. It's comical.

As for the Chiefs? I feel horrible for Charles. A really good player and I hate that this happened to him. On the other side, the coaching was horrific. The other thing is they CANNOT go down the field. If Manning is done because he can't throw it 30 yards, what exactly is the excuse of Alex Smith? The Chiefs were 0-7 on third downs and I was sitting on my couch calling their third down plays.

"Watch out Dad, they are throwing a swing pass to Charles here. They have Thomas in the backfield, they are motioning him, he'll get the ball. Watch out for the TE here." It's so painfully predictable. The Chiefs D is great, but their corners didn't impress me at all. Slow the pass rush and what do you have exactly? The Broncos have two pro bowl CB's. The Chiefs have a couple of young guys who might be great one day, but are only so so for now.

Overall, happy to get a win. The Ravens and Chiefs are probably the two best defensive fronts we'll see all year. With the poor line, I'll be happy to face poorer defenses and worry about how the offensive line is coming along when we face KC again in mid-November.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Then who does deserve to win this game? Denver doesn't. KC turned the ball over 5 times, they sure as hell didn't. It's not like KC DOMINTATED this game without the turnovers. it was a game that was going to be within a score for most of the game. This game could have been a blowout both ways if a handful of plays turned out differently. At the end of the day, we can say KC choked, but the reality is Peyton Manning took Denver 80 yards in just over 2 minutes to tie that game.

For sure. I would vote for "nobody" as for who actually 'deserved' the win tonight. Kansas City felt like they were somehow playing better football, except not during any plays that mattered...but like on 1st and 2nd down, between the 30s, and not during the end of either half, they were totally killing it. Likewise, on defense they seemingly just looked better to the eye, but couldn't convert critical interceptions, and let Denver score/convert at all the worst times...the old "break but don't bend" defense.

I'd also agree with your assessment of Denver's offensive problems. Manning's ball flutters more these days, especially under pressure, and he obviously doesn't have as much zip as he used to...but he looked competent & strong enough when he was given adequate protection & able to step into his throws, which got a little better as the night went on. In the beginning the Oline was atrocious, letting guys through free on literally every play...nobody's going to look good under those conditions (especially if you can't muster even the tiniest threat of a running game). The question is of course whether he's going to be playing under those conditions all year long. Making him take snaps under center and take drops, and not letting him adjust plays/protections at the line seems ludicrous. It does seem relevant that his couple long ball attempts were actually overthrown by a yard or two, and relatively good looking passes, rather than wobbly under-thrown ducks, so I agree that the worries about his arm being completely cooked may be a bit premature.

[Kodos]

Crazy ending last night. Maybe Kubiak learned a bit last night that if you let Manning work out of the shotgun, things go better. What's the deal with Anderson. Was he just good at the end of last season because he was fresh and everyone else was worn out?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Crazy ending last night. Maybe Kubiak learned a bit last night that if you let Manning work out of the shotgun, things go better. What's the deal with Anderson. Was he just good at the end of last season because he was fresh and everyone else was worn out?

Maybe he's just better out of the gun? With Manning being a stationary target there, he can concentrate looking at the defense?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Crazy ending last night. Maybe Kubiak learned a bit last night that if you let Manning work out of the shotgun, things go better. What's the deal with Anderson. Was he just good at the end of last season because he was fresh and everyone else was worn out?

I do not think anyone realizes just how bad this line is right now. Last year, CJ was eunning behind some guys who could grate. Watch a replay of the Broncos first two games and tell me exactly where the running lanes were. It is the same thing for Manning. Take ANY QB and put him under. The conditions Manning was in the last two games and tell me how it is going to work.

Joe Flacco and Alex Smith have went a combined 34/57 for 308 yards and 4 int's against Denver and their arms are just fine. Manning is 50/85 for 431 yards and 3 TD/2 INT in his first two games. (Yards per pass attempt nearly identical to the other two guys, which is horrible)

Thankfully the line now has some time to get better. They dont need to be the best in the NFL, but they do need to be better. Barring a ridiculous rash. Of injuries, the Denver D will be dominant all year long. They can carry the O fow awhile. If the OLine stays this bad? Manning will not finish the year (and really no QB would)

CJ will need to rely on that line to get better.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Crazy ending last night. Maybe Kubiak learned a bit last night that if you let Manning work out of the shotgun, things go better. What's the deal with Anderson. Was he just good at the end of last season because he was fresh and everyone else was worn out?

New offensive line with four new starters and a new offense is part of the running backs struggles. CJ early in the Ravens game hurt his toe pretty badly and also reinjured a high ankle sprain he got in preseason. He should be fine after the 10 day rest.

[Logan]

Yikes.

New: 87 Deceased NFL Players Test Positive for Brain Disease | Concussion Watch | FRONTLINE | PBS

[Kodos]

I thought the other RB (whose name escapes me at the moment) looked better than Anderson. But, yeah, their o-line looks terrible right now. Can't pick up blitzes, can't create running lanes.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yikes.

New: 87 Deceased NFL Players Test Positive for Brain Disease | Concussion Watch | FRONTLINE | PBS

Yep. Over time, it is becoming harder to remain a football fan. Which sucks, because it is by far my favorite sport.

[molson]

We've known for almost 100 years that boxers and others that get hit in the head a lot are at a dramatically increased risk for being "punch-drunk" as they get older. It's interesting psychologically how identifying this buzz-term diagnosis of "CTE" has totally changed the game even though CTE can't be diagnosed until after you're dead, and there's no clear agreement on what the symptoms or impacts of it even are, or how prevalent it is in the general population. That Boston University group definitely wins the award for increasing awareness of this, but I'm not really sure what it all means. It's not surprising that football players' brains end up looking different than other brains. I guess the question just where the line of "acceptability" is to where we're OK with the risk. And that question can't really be answered by CTE diagnosis alone, because that doesn't tell us anything about real impact or real consequences. The BU group has successfully sold that term as something really scary and terrible on its own, even though it's something you'll never even know you have. But yet we didn't seem to be phased at all by pre-CTE data about how football players have 3-4 times the risk of developing Alzheimers, a much lower life expectancy generally, etc, and other actual practical diagnosable consequences.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Yep. Over time, it is becoming harder to remain a football fan. Which sucks, because it is by far my favorite sport.

Doctors, dentists, veterinarians, finance workers and chiropractors all have suicide rates that are 1.5x or more higher than the norm. Do you feel bad patronizing their line of work? What about white women in sales professions, with a suicide rate nearly 2.5x the norm? Do you avoid them in favor of white male or Asian sales people? Or black women in protective service occupations, where the rate is closer to 3x the norm?

I'm not picking on you, I just never have quite understood the angst over this particular statistic.

[Kodos]

I have trouble mentally justifying things that I know have real downsides for others or myself. I guess I'm prone to feeling guilt. In some circumstances it pays off: I'll never cheat on my wife at least in part because I couldn't handle the lifelong guilt I would feel afterward. I don't think I could carry on if I killed someone in a DUI accident or if my negligence caused somebody else's death. It acts to keep me from drinking when I know I'll be driving later. It helps me to do the right thing in a lot of situations.

With football, I feel like players are taking tremendous risks for my entertainment. Yes, they do it voluntarily, and at least now they do it with full knowledge of possible downsides. But somewhere in my mind, that doesn't absolve me of being part of the problem as a fan who supports football with his wallet. Obviously, it hasn't stopped me from watching yet, but it does lower my enthusiasm.

I think some people are just better at ignoring downsides. I'm terrified of dying of cancer, so I avoid activities that increase the chance that I might get it. For lots of people (yourself included), the established fact that smoking increases your chances of dying from cancer is not a deterrent. Same thing with motorcycle riders, skydivers, and other thrill seekers. I don't do a lot of risky things, because I like to help shift the odds in my favor.

[Arles]

To go along with what Jon said, a lot of people enjoy watching "The Deadliest Catch". This even though, through the early 2000s, the Alaskan crab fisherman fatality rate was significantly higher than most professions. There's always been an element of danger involved with certain entertainment professions - and this data doesn't really change that.

I think the NFL has done a pretty good job lately at managing the concussion issue - but there was a period from 1970 through 2000 where they did a piss poor job (mostly because people really didn't understand). I fully expect to see more and more instances of brain injuries for people who played in the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, but I'm not so sure the same level of risk exists in today's NFL given the equipment and rule changes. The problem is that by the time we would see data on today's players (2030+), the PR damage may already have been done on the sport for past sins. The next 10-15 years will be interesting as more of the 80s/90s "headhunting" era cases come to light.

[Kodos]

FWIW, I would never watch a show like "Deadliest Catch."

[lungs]

Better throw away your cell phone with how many tower climbers get killed

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Kodos

With football, I feel like players are taking tremendous risks for my entertainment. Yes, they do it voluntarily, and at least now they do it with full knowledge of possible downsides. But somewhere in my mind, that doesn't absolve me of being part of the problem as a fan who supports football with his wallet. Obviously, it hasn't stopped me from watching yet, but it does lower my enthusiasm.

This.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Doctors, dentists, veterinarians, finance workers and chiropractors all have suicide rates that are 1.5x or more higher than the norm. Do you feel bad patronizing their line of work? What about white women in sales professions, with a suicide rate nearly 2.5x the norm? Do you avoid them in favor of white male or Asian sales people? Or black women in protective service occupations, where the rate is closer to 3x the norm?

I'm not picking on you, I just never have quite understood the angst over this particular statistic.

But if I was watching a reality show that included their bouts with clinical depression and their eventual deaths, I'd probably question my choice of entertainment.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But if I was watching a reality show that included their bouts with clinical depression and their eventual deaths, I'd probably question my choice of entertainment.

They're just as dead (harmed, etc).

Like I said, I ain't picking on nobody at all. I simply don't really get the angst.
Life is fatal, at least these guys are getting paid in the interim.

[molson]

Originally Posted by lungs

Better throw away your cell phone with how many tower climbers get killed

Also clean through our closets and shelves for products made by exploited workers, including exploited child workers. Maybe if they thought of a catchy abbreviation for all the horrors involved with that we'd suddenly feel more guilty about things we already know about.

[stevew]

I guess starting next year it will be mandatory for both Thursday night times to wear their colored jerseys.

[miami_fan]

Don't tell the Texans not to overreact to Week 1. First they change their starting QB, now they are changing the field surface.

Houston Texans switch to artificial surface rest of 2015

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I do not think anyone realizes just how bad this line is right now. Last year, CJ was eunning behind some guys who could grate. Watch a replay of the Broncos first two games and tell me exactly where the running lanes were. It is the same thing for Manning. Take ANY QB and put him under. The conditions Manning was in the last two games and tell me how it is going to work.

Joe Flacco and Alex Smith have went a combined 34/57 for 308 yards and 4 int's against Denver and their arms are just fine.

Well, I'm not sure I'd be using Alex Smith as my primary arm-strength example, but I agree that Peyton is just as done as Tom Brady was after the first 4 games last season. Unfortunately, Gronk (or Julius Thomas) isn't walking through that door to make his life easier, but he'll do just fine with that defense in what's shaping up as a down year at the top of the AFC (regardless how ugly it was, Denver's 2-0 with W's over playoff contenders Baltimore and KC). And anyone who thinks that it's time to start Brock Osweiler over Manning can be summarily ignored going forward.

Interesting note re: the O-Line though - "During his first three seasons in Denver, Manning was pressured on 14.3 percent of his passes, the lowest rate in the league by a comfortable margin. Andy Dalton is in second at 19.6 percent. In two games this season, that figure is up to 22.8 percent, which is roughly league-average. Manning has already been sacked seven times in two games. Last year, he didn’t take his seventh sack until Denver’s sixth game." Part of that was Manning's reads and the offense's design, but that also suggests that this O-Line isn't aberrationally bad, just league average, and Denver fans have been a little spoiled as to what usual O-Lines look like.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Don't tell the Texans not to overreact to Week 1. First they change their starting QB, now they are changing the field surface.

Houston Texans switch to artificial surface rest of 2015

I thought it took 3(or is it 5?) seasons to fix poor quality turf. Hope they paid extra for a quality construction firm.