Hello again ol' friend: Simcity 5 introduced

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That article just made me sad

SI

+1

While I'm super disappointed with the no off-line (or single player, really) modes, I think the biggest doozy there is the predetermined transit hubs with freeway access. That seems completely and totally counter to the whole point of the game, which is to design YOUR city the way YOU want.

[Young Drachma]

Seems these guys listened to too much of what the CitiesXL folks did.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Firaxis and Civ5 seem to do quite well playing offline while including mods and very popular DLCs.

Not the same thing, though. Civilization is the kind of game you can mod out the ass to create new scenarios, new worlds, or add civilizations in that are 'minor' enough that Firaxis probably never gets to them.

Or create new units, wonders, whatever. The possibilities are nigh-endless.

SimCity, on the other hand, what kind of mods are you going to create? New disasters? New transportation methods? New tilesets so that you can create a moonbase, etc?

Those are all things you could legitimately see Maxis/EA selling as DLC.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Not the same thing, though. Civilization is the kind of game you can mod out the ass to create new scenarios, new worlds, or add civilizations in that are 'minor' enough that Firaxis probably never gets to them.

Or create new units, wonders, whatever. The possibilities are nigh-endless.

SimCity, on the other hand, what kind of mods are you going to create? New disasters? New transportation methods? New tilesets so that you can create a moonbase, etc?

Those are all things you could legitimately see Maxis/EA selling as DLC.

I was being somewhat faceteous even though I don't think it's out of the realm of possablility, but EA already seems to have an extensive DLC plan.

As well as all the great content in the Limited Edition, the Digital Deluxe includes three European City packs. Recreate European inspired neighborhoods in the center of your city! Place world renowned landmarks including the Eiffel Tower, Brandenburg Gate or Big Ben to help your tourism business in your city. Receive exclusive missions, complete unique achievements and earn big bucks as waves of Sims visit the landmarks. Watch as the businesses, homes and vehicles around your landmarks start to take on the flavor, style, and architecture of those countries.

SIGNATURE LANDMARKS
Be the envy of your region by placing exclusive landmarks to give your city district a fresh new look. Sims will visit your city to see the beautiful wonders.

CHANGE IN THE STREETS
Watch the streets, homes, businesses, and vehicles around your landmarks start to take on the flavor of those countries.

MORE PLOPPABLES
Move your Sims in style with new transportation ploppables. Double Decker buses from London, High-Speed Rail from Germany, and police services from Paris.

(And on a side note to the monetization plan, why oh why do they think SimCity needs missions? )

Expect this one to get a full The Sims treatment, and boy oh boy can I not wait for the Katy Perry version.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Firaxis and Civ5 seem to do quite well playing offline while including mods and very popular DLCs.

Sure it might not be the right or smart thing to do, but this is EA we're talking about.

[bhlloy]

It's really sad to see what they've done to this series and legacy. SC4 was so close to being a great game and they've just gone completely in the other direction when they could have made 5 a classic.

I guess they figure the dollars they can squeeze out of bored rich kids for all the Sims flavored add-ons and DLC is worth more than the money they would have got from all the people who loved the originals, or maybe they think gamers are too stupid to realize the difference. Fricking EA.

[Buccaneer]

It's probably a matter of perspective. I believe (assume) that one single Civ5 DLC probably outsells all of SimCity. I could be way off but perhaps Maxis/EA desires more control in their niche?

[Coffee Warlord]

Ya know, a friend of mine summed this up very nicely. EA is basically making a 60 dollar facebook game.

[Draft Dodger]

clearly, this is not the game I've been waiting all these years fo

[Karlifornia]

Ouch.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Ya know, a friend of mine summed this up very nicely. EA is basically making a 60 dollar facebook game.

Agreed. This seems a lot like SimCity Social.

[sterlingice]

No wonder the Zynga results are taking a beating on Wall Street! (ZING!)

SI

[spleen1015]

I can't believe they are really targeting the serious gamer with this version.

[Neon_Chaos]

I still can't believe the direction they're going with this.

[DaddyTorgo]

some of the developers did a AMAA on Reddit, which was entirely swamped by people complaining about the social aspect and the need to be online to play.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Originally Posted by Tim Tellean

Doesn't bother me I use Steam all the time. Others may be upset.

Good news: If you want to download SimCity somewhere other than Origin, you'll have the option to do so. An EA representative confirmed with Joystiq that the title would be available for purchase on other digital distribution platforms, though a list of stores has yet to be finalized. SimCity is arriving sometime in 2013.

Lead designer Stone Librande confirmed that SimCity would be an internet-dependent experience. Players will need to be online on Origin while playing, even if that wasn't the point of purchase. The always-on connection becomes necessary with the game's emphasis on multiplayer and regional impact, and the use of a global economy that all players can influence.

SimCity requires internet connection to play, will be sold outside of Origin | Joystiq

Went from day one puchase to a No Go.. Fuck EA and make SIMCITY a single player experience with MP ability. Again Fuck EA..

[Qrusher14242]

Yeah, wish they just called it Simcity Online...then i wouldn't care if they did it this way. But this will bomb like Simcity Societies did

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Ya know, a friend of mine summed this up very nicely. EA is basically making a 60 dollar facebook game.

I've heard talk - specifically in reaction to the closing of City of Heroes - that this is where companies might be headed for a while.

NCsoft closed the game soon after selling a large chunk of stock to Nexon (perhaps coincidentally, perhaps not).

Nexon, the provider of good and quality free-to-play games (which is a rare thing in the industry) and NCsoft of pay-to-play games -turn free-to-play. Nexon, for casual games while NCsoft for serious games. Not to mention, these two are powerhouses.

The thinking is that Nexon's influence was going to move NCsoft away from these more serious games to more zynga-like games which conceivably could reach a much larger audience. Like Marvel: Avengers Alliance vs City of Heroes. For old-school gamers, that's not a good thing, unfortunately.

[Buccaneer]

My long time gamer friend is interested in this but like me, has no interest in any social aspects to any games. He has read through all of maxis info and believes that you can play without involving any others in the traditional solitaire mode. Guess we'll see.

[finketr]

must find sc4..
must find sc4...
must find sc4....

[Mota]

You still need constant internet connection in order to play. That's a big concern to me considering that EA is shuttering games released in 2011. In the licensing agreement there should be a clause for a final patch to enable any game to be offline before they discontinue the service.

[Ryan S]

I got a beta invite, but the servers have been too busy to allow me to log in. Not a good start.

[Bonegavel]

I"m in the beta too and I'm skeptical of the direction the game is going but I'm glad I'm in beta so I can at least give my 2 cents (not that it will matter). I'm not holding my breath but I hope they are open to suggestions. It seems that it would be impossible for them to reverse the direction they are headed but there is always hope.

[Blackadar]

I got into the beta for the latest SimCity. Considering that I had to wait 30 minutes to log in, then the game couldn't/wouldn't even load a region for me to play in, I'd have to suggest to everyone to stay far, far away. It's obvious that the "always online" component is going to cause some serious issues.

EDIT: 4:30 PM EST

Fast forward a few hours hours...

First time I try, the server is unavailable. So I try immediately afterward and the server is available, but "play is blocked". A few minutes later I got in, but I got what I got early this morning - can't load a region. I'm one of the biggest fans of the SimCity series. I think SimCity IV is one of the most underrated games of all time. I play Cities XL to get my Sim fix. But this? This is even worse than I imagined. I thought it would be hard to live up to my most pessimistic opinion of the online portion of the game, but give EA credit...they hit rock bottom on this one.

I'm quite curious as to how bad it will get, so I'll continue to try. I'm a glutton for punishment.

[Karlifornia]

So, you haven't actually played yet?

[chinaski]

Being its in early beta, this really means nothing.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

So, you haven't actually played yet?

Can't get in.

Originally Posted by chinaski

Being its in early beta, this really means nothing.

Sorry, I disagree. Every time I've beta'd a MMO with these types of issues, the launch has been disastrous. A few issues are to be expected. Not being able to get in at all (and there are many who can't) isn't expected and points to bigger issues. Finally, considering this releases in less than 2 months, it's most definitely not an "early" beta.

[INDalltheway]

I think it's a huge issue as well. A perk of the preorder is supposed to be the ability to play the game before release and possibly influence the game with feedback. That is being completely taken away = disaster.

[Blackadar]

I have good news and bad news.

Good news: 24 hours after the beta opened, I was finally able to get in.
Good news: I played a zone for a whole hour without getting bumped out.
Good news: There's a little charm & personality in the game.
Good news: The music is nice, graphics are ok.

Bad news: The zoning sucks. Because of the way things get plopped and the extremely small zones, you're pretty well forced to plop stuff down in the tightest grid you can make. So cities end up looking generic, bland and downright ugly as compared to something like Cities XL 2012.
Bad news: The zones are really that tiny.
Bad news: There doesn't seem to be that much depth to the game. A lot of features were locked, but it's not difficult or even challenging. Buildings seem to be pretty limited as well.

[frnk55]

Well it looks like I'll be sticking with SC4.

[Coffee Warlord]

Pretty much what I was expecting. Sad.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by frnk55

Well it looks like I'll be sticking with SC4.

...where you can build even more formulaic, repetitive, generic, bland and downright ugly cities except without an internet connection.

[frnk55]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

...where you can build even more formulaic, repetitive, generic, bland and downright ugly cities except without an internet connection.

Hey I like it.

[Coffee Warlord]

From Slashdot:

"EA's latest Simcity game requires users to log on online even for single player. After being unable to log on for three hours, one of its users chimed in with his very polite $0.02 opinion, only to get himself banned by EA admins. Another great victory for DRM."

http://i.imgur.com/l4o5nFH.png
http://i.imgur.com/TPKHcqz.png
http://i.imgur.com/4u2q56q.png

[mckerney]

Given it's EA he should consider himself lucky if he was just banned from the forum and not from all games he has on Origin.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

From Slashdot:

"EA's latest Simcity game requires users to log on online even for single player. After being unable to log on for three hours, one of its users chimed in with his very polite $0.02 opinion, only to get himself banned by EA admins. Another great victory for DRM."

http://i.imgur.com/l4o5nFH.png
http://i.imgur.com/TPKHcqz.png
http://i.imgur.com/4u2q56q.png

His comments echo my feelings almost exactly. If it works and doesn't interfere with the game, fine, I can deal with it. Once it starts slowing things down or not allowing me to play a game that is installed on my hard drive, game over.

That being said I'm actually excited about the 'simplified' version of sim city. It sounds like there is less micromanaging required this time around and if true, I would find that more enjoyable.

[JediKooter]

From reading this, it's almost as if the people that make the decisions to make it only online, don't ever play games that are only online.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

From reading this, it's almost as if the people that make the decisions to make it only online, don't ever play games that are only online.

I'd argue most of the people who make those kind of decisions don't play games, period.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I'd argue most of the people who make those kind of decisions don't play games, period.

You know, I think you may be right. It would explain quite a few things.

[mckerney]

Hmm: EA’s Holding Back A Lot For SimCity Deluxe | Rock, Paper, Shotgun

This is probably one of the reasons for the game being always online and having some things handled server side. Can't sell overpriced DLC if the new SimCity has the modding community SimCity 4 has. And I wonder if features from previous games like subways will ever show up as DLC as well.

Plus the mention of additional missions and the Heroes and Villians set really makes it seem like it isn't the type of game I'd want from a SimCity game.

[Coffee Warlord]

Oh I guarantee you they're gonna go DLC / Expansion nuts with it. Subways will prolly be one of the first things available.

[Bonegavel]

Hypothetically speaking, the game is very lackluster to me. In fact, it makes me question what I ever saw in the series. And I have played my share of sim city over the years.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

goddammit

[nilodor]

Part of the Limited Edition package announced:
Blog Article

I feel as excited for this as the slingshot dlc for xcom, which is to say not very. I get trying to open up sim city and make it more "fun", I guess I'm becoming more skeptical if I'll like it when their done.

[Mota]

I got the limited edition and I think the hero thing is kinda cool. Looking forward to playing the game!

[CleBrownsfan]

Anyone getting this tomorrow?? I'm suckered in by the name alone... Amazon still has their $20 promotion up for the "pre-order" of SimCity.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Anyone getting this tomorrow?? I'm suckered in by the name alone... Amazon still has their $20 promotion up for the "pre-order" of SimCity.

So far I'm resisting the urge. I'm a huge Simcity fan, but there are 3 things holding me back:

1. The city sizes. I've played the beta and let me tell you that these "cities" are SMALL. This isn't Simcity. This is Simvillage. Or Simdistrict. But you can't build a city in one of these micro-lots. The screenshots and TV ads are at best misleading and occasionally downright fake - these cities aren't that big. EA claims that they're on par with a medium sized city in SC4, but that's an outright falsehood. After playing the beta and years of SC4, these cities are about the size of a small SC4 city. Want an airport? That's the ENTIRE CITY, folks. Move on to another spot in that region, because that city is pretty much done.

2. The always-on DRM combined with EA's reputation for closing servers. I only finally stopped playing SC4 last year. I have no faith that EA will keep the servers active that long - at least without charging some sort of fee to do so. I have heartburn supporting that kind of DRM scheme with a company that has been proven on multiple occasions to be anti-consumer. I'm not an EA hater, but I'm not a fan either. If they decide to come out with SimCity 15 next year and shut down these servers, you're SOL. The chances of that are admittedly small, but EA has pulled the plug quickly before on other games.

3. The monetization of SC and the eventual total cost. I bet bigger cities are going to happen - but they'll cost you $20. Want a subway? $15. Just look at the tile sets of the deluxe version - they value the French, German and English tile sets at $7 each.

No, you won't "need" any of this, but they'll make the game much better/deeper and more fun with these microtransactions. Except in EA's case they won't be microtransactions. My son was playing the Sims 3 the other day and remarked that he wanted a new "world". Ok, how much? 3,900 points. That's FOURTY DOLLARS! I see the same kind of thing happening with SC and my limited beta testing suggests that the game is a bit "bare bones" as-is. It's going to need a Rush Hour-type expansion to flesh out the game, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that to get that kind of content you're going to end up dropping another $50 to $100 on the game. And given my history with Simtropolis and the mods for SC4, I would be sorely tempted to buy that new bridge package for $15.

So for right now, I can't reconcile buying this knowing that it's at some point a temporary investment, my total cost for the game could approach $150-$200 and being stuck to play in such a limited sandbox. There's a chance I could weaken, but at this stage I'm sitting this one out.

[CleBrownsfan]

Damn - when you put it that way...

I never thought the DRM scheme as a deal breaker but I can see once EA is "done" with the game - well, so are you.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

Damn - when you put it that way...

I never thought the DRM scheme as a deal breaker but I can see once EA is "done" with the game - well, so are you.

Arstechnica impressions: SimCity impressions: We waited ten years for this? | Ars Technica

Some comments from that article that echo what I wrote above or experienced in my game-play:

"You know, it's dumb. I have wanted curved roads for so long, but I’m only building grids, because space is so tight."

"Also, would it kill them to have subways?" My note: I'm sure they will...for $10-$20.

"Not enough transport options."

"I'm being destroyed by traffic even with street cars and buses, and there's nowhere to go from the streetcar avenue. I want to build a tunneled highway or something, but there are no real transport options."

"And because there's no save games, I can't go back in time to try a different route. There's no freedom to experiment."

"There are parts I like. I love the ability to bolt things on to buildings. I've been wanting that for years. But it feels like they've spent all their time figuring out ways of modelling Sims, when I want to model cities."

That last one drives home my own feelings. I want to build a city, the sims are incidental to that. They spent so much time and bandwidth modeling each sim that the city as a whole suffers. I'm not claiming that SC is a bad game - it's not. But I just can't justify forking over the cash for something that feels small, incomplete and when I know I'm going to get gouged in the future for needed gameplay mechanics.

[Blackadar]

Another relaible source, Penny Arcade, has some mixed impressions:

The PA Report - The city that never sleeps, but always poops, needs water, and more electricity: PAR plays SimCity