The Mental Health Thread

[NobodyHere]

Also this is a message that the Trumper just sent me

Originally Posted by Trumper

#1 women are crazy. #2 those women are spying on me and trying to control me. It all started with Chanay wanting me to give up my freedom of owning guns. I blocked Chanay on Facebook. Georgette wants to be able to control me. The other 2 women that I know of as of now are pawns in this game of chess I'm the king in chess game. Your a pawn Ted is the horsemen.

I have no idea who Chanay, Georgette or Ted is. But Ted is obviously a centaur.

ETA: I know who Ted is. He is someone who walked with us. Still can't figure out the other two.

[thesloppy]

Oh man, you hit the jackpot. Time to burn all your belongings, move to a new town, and assume someone else's identity.

[Solecismic]

For a while, I was in a Meetup group that had various social events in our area. I ended up helping to run it for a time, mostly organizing a bar trivia team (the core of that team outlasted the group itself, and we even ended up winning a good amount of money in trivia tournaments).

But they attract some characters. There were a couple of women like that who would show up at certain types of events. No graceful way to handle it - they don't understand "no" unless you're borderline rude. But it made me more appreciative of what women sometimes have to deal with, because they have the additional fear that the man who won't leave them alone unless they're borderline rude as well could be violent about it.

We had a rule in our Meetup (I think most of the ones that last more than a few outings have this kind of rule) that you can't make someone else feel uncomfortable. So there was discussion about removing these women. But since they never caused a scene or, as far as any of us knew, had any success in their pursuits, we just felt bad about what it must be like to have that kind of disability and not have a parent or a caretaker or group to help navigate the world.

We've come a long way since the days of asylums and forced confinement, but now we have the opposite problem of more and more mentally disabled people having almost no connection to anything.

As for the "Trumpian" man and his dog... I don't know. This is a new thing, this balkanization of social interaction over political views. My guess is that he recognizes that his attempts to poke the group to find like minds are not working and he'll stop. If he keeps poking and that makes anyone uncomfortable enough to stop going to events, that's certainly reason to remove him from the group.

As for the dog issue, I can't imagine confronting someone and implying he can't care for his pet. He's out walking his dog, which seems better than quite a large percentage of pet owners who think dogs are just fine out on their own in a yard, tied up and bored. Dogs are very social and walking them regularly is a sign that you care a lot about them. Every animal needs water, of course, but it seems odd that a group of people would talk about this guy behind his back like that. That doesn't seem fair, unless the dog is actually in distress (excessive panting, seeming reluctance to keep walking).

Of course, his message to you is probably the sign of some mental illness. Ted and Georgette could be some sort of reference to The Mary Tyler Moore Show (Ted was likely the inspiration for Ron Burgundy and Georgette was his ever-optimistic wife who saw him for what he was and loved him anyway).

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Also this is a message that the Trumper just sent me



I have no idea who Chanay, Georgette or Ted is. But Ted is obviously a centaur.

ETA: I know who Ted is. He is someone who walked with us. Still can't figure out the other two.

Good God

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Also this is a message that the Trumper just sent me



I have no idea who Chanay, Georgette or Ted is. But Ted is obviously a centaur.

ETA: I know who Ted is. He is someone who walked with us. Still can't figure out the other two.

ETA2: Georgette is a person who walked with us last week but he got the name wrong. We actually ran into her today by coincidence. And by coincidence I mean she was spying on the Trumper to help her side in the chess game for certain. I didn't get to talk to her much but I can tell you that she is a black woman who laments that she isn't as "woke" as her daughter is. I wish I talked to her more.

Trumper says Chanay started the chess game but I still don't know who he's referring too.


Stayed tuned for next week's episode.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Also this is a message that the Trumper just sent me



I have no idea who Chanay, Georgette or Ted is. But Ted is obviously a centaur.

ETA: I know who Ted is. He is someone who walked with us. Still can't figure out the other two.

Seriously, fuck this guy. Trumpers turn everything to shit.

[NobodyHere]

Well unless I receive a complaint or witness something openly hostile then I don't think I have the right to ban anyone.

[Edward64]

He does seem "off". Wouldn't be surprised if he conceal carries. Does he wear loose fitting, untucked polos?

[NobodyHere]

Well on a hot day he forgoes a shirt.

Which in a past walk he had attracted an older woman who wouldn't leave his side. He is taller and claims to work out.

[thesloppy]

That's what a king does.

[NobodyHere]

So this was my reply to him

Originally Posted by Me the hero

And I'm sorry I don't get this chess analogy at all. As far as I can tell we are just people walking in the metro parks. What chess game is going on here?

Originally Posted by Trumper

It's all good. Don't worry about it. Those women are playing games It's complicated too explain as you only know parts of it.
Women are complicated. If you go to bars or night clubs I'm sure we'll find Women there. I would enjoy karaoke if you know about an karaoke bar.

How should I respond?

[NobodyHere]

I admit at a level I identify with him because we are two lonely souls trying to find connection with female human beings but we have no idea on how to do it.

[PilotMan]

Are we sure he's not a bot?

[flere-imsaho]

We dropped my younger son off at camp on Tuesday. It's a Jewish overnight camp. Like his older brother before him, I will spend the entire time (the next 3 weeks in this case) worried that someone is going to shoot the place up.

Case in point: I woke up at 3. It's now 4:30. What woke me up was a dream that he was dead. So now I can't go back to sleep.

[Edward64]

Hah, on overnight stuff I've always worried about kids getting lost or kidnapped.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This is shamelessly repurposed from my social media. There's some, but not a ton, of crossover between here and there so I think I'm okay to repost.

----

I've said something privately a few times recently, I think I want to say it publicly too. Maybe sharing it is just wishful thinking that it might help even one person at some point even a little bit someday.

In recent weeks I feel like I've learned something that I never knew, or at least never understood: grief is NOT linear.

You know, "the five stages of grief" and all that. I mean, if you came of age in the 1970s or beyond, that was a common thing to hear about. And I'd heard those notions long enough that they sort of became accepted in my head as "how it works".

Reality is that there may be stages (or "phases" as I've begun to call them) but they don't come in order, nor are they consistent.

I may have three days of one phase, a day of another, two days back to the previous one, then six days of two others mixed, and some days I couldn't tell you what stage I'm in because it's one I don't recognize yet. And then repeat.

It's like having all the possible stages put on "shuffle" and waking up each day to press Play and find out what it'll be that day.

Please understand, I know this is all just part of it. That grief is a process, that it takes time, that it's just something we all have to go through. That there's not a right or wrong, that it's personal. I get it, as far as all that goes.
I'm just talking here about how it actually works a lot different than maybe I was ... societally taught ... that it worked.

It took me quite a bit of time to start getting my head around what I'd misunderstood and that's why I thought saying it out loud -- just presenting the concept that it is NOT linear -- might be of some use for someone down the road somewhere.

Or not. But it felt like it was worth trying.

[GrantDawg]

You are absolutely right, Jon. It isn't linear at all, nor is it as clean as it is sometimes presented. You can have periods of angry-denial, followed by depressed-acceptance. I think the main thing is recognizing where the manifestation of the pain is coming from.

[flere-imsaho]

Hang in there, Jon.

[Edward64]

Thanks for sharing. I always thought it was pretty much linear.

[albionmoonlight]

As a culture, we want things to be clean and easy. Life is neither clean nor easy. Pain is neither clean nor easy.

My thoughts are with you, Jon.

[Breeze]

Still in my prayers bud. So sorry.

[Kodos]

You're right, Jon. And you and Will have my sympathy. It's been such a tough road for both of you. It must be so hard just to muddle through each day after going through losing your wife/mother like you guys did. I wish there was a way to make that healing process easier/faster for you.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

You're right, Jon. And you and Will have my sympathy. It's been such a tough road for both of you. It must be so hard just to muddle through each day after going through losing your wife/mother like you guys did. I wish there was a way to make that healing process easier/faster for you.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I wish there was something - anything - that would make this process easier but damned if I've found such a thing.

"Muddle through" is a pretty good description of what it's like. "Good" days are the ones we get to the end of without a feeling that I've started to describe as getting kicked in the balls. That's kind of the ceiling so far honestly.

I'll be honest about it: I'm on the backside (I hope) of probably the roughest couple weeks to date, doing anything just feels next to impossible, I struggle to even f'n mindlessly app game with any consistency (I can usually sink quite a few hours a day into that just for some frame of reference)

Everything brings a sense of loss, a sense of dread. A great example is how we're both dreading the impending start of football season. My wife was a classic Southern woman in many respects, not the least of which was that she was as avid a Saturday football watcher as any man. You ever wonder who would watch Kentucky vs Vandy in late October in the absence of any other football option, she was the answer to that question.

The routine around here was long established, it wasn't unusual for as many as three games to be going simultaneously. One down here in the batcave, another in the den, and Will sometimes watching a third while floating between the two rooms and watching with both of us.

And whatever football season feels like this year, it won't feel anywhere near the same. Or right. And that hurts, and it sucks beyond all the words that I know.

I'm fucking sitting here in tears just trying to describe it, THAT is how much we dread it. But you know where I live. Ignoring this time of year simply isn't a remotely realistic option.

So we'll face it. And try to figure it out.

That's kinda what this experience and process is like. Virtually everything, every day, feels like what I just described to some degree or another.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I wish there was something - anything - that would make this process easier but damned if I've found such a thing.

"Muddle through" is a pretty good description of what it's like. "Good" days are the ones we get to the end of without a feeling that I've started to describe as getting kicked in the balls. That's kind of the ceiling so far honestly.

I'll be honest about it: I'm on the backside (I hope) of probably the roughest couple weeks to date, doing anything just feels next to impossible, I struggle to even f'n mindlessly app game with any consistency (I can usually sink quite a few hours a day into that just for some frame of reference)

Everything brings a sense of loss, a sense of dread. A great example is how we're both dreading the impending start of football season. My wife was a classic Southern woman in many respects, not the least of which was that she was as avid a Saturday football watcher as any man. You ever wonder who would watch Kentucky vs Vandy in late October in the absence of any other football option, she was the answer to that question.

The routine around here was long established, it wasn't unusual for as many as three games to be going simultaneously. One down here in the batcave, another in the den, and Will sometimes watching a third while floating between the two rooms and watching with both of us.

And whatever football season feels like this year, it won't feel anywhere near the same. Or right. And that hurts, and it sucks beyond all the words that I know.

I'm fucking sitting here in tears just trying to describe it, THAT is how much we dread it. But you know where I live. Ignoring this time of year simply isn't a remotely realistic option.

So we'll face it. And try to figure it out.

That's kinda what this experience and process is like. Virtually everything, every day, feels like what I just described to some degree or another.

Damn Jon. I am sorry you and Will dealing with this sort of pain. That story about the football season sounds eerily similar to the struggle my nephew had after my wife's brother in law passed in 2021.

[Solecismic]

I can only imagine. It's what all of us who are married fear, but nothing can prepare you for the experience.

Can you reach out (through your doctor or through your church) and find a grief support group? Not to make it feel worse, but this is process that takes a long time, maybe years, and a regular group with people who share this grief might do wonders.

My wife's father experienced a similar timeline - his wife passed away about two years ago after a long battle that sounded very similar to yours. He has found a lot of comfort in his church. One thing he did last summer is bring as much family as possible to his wife's favorite vacation spot for a ceremony, then picnic. I know it brought him some closure, but nothing is magic. He just tries to stay as active as possible.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I can only imagine. It's what all of us who are married fear, but nothing can prepare you for the experience.

Can you reach out (through your doctor or through your church) and find a grief support group? Not to make it feel worse, but this is process that takes a long time, maybe years, and a regular group with people who share this grief might do wonders.

My wife's father experienced a similar timeline - his wife passed away about two years ago after a long battle that sounded very similar to yours. He has found a lot of comfort in his church. One thing he did last summer is bring as much family as possible to his wife's favorite vacation spot for a ceremony, then picnic. I know it brought him some closure, but nothing is magic. He just tries to stay as active as possible.

I actually looked into that, the whole grief support group/therapy/etc stuff.

I'll just share my results, with the big caveat to anyone in the situation that YMMV depending on location.

Around here, those primarily exist through churches but they skew about three decades older than me. While I've come to realize that I have ample things in common with those in the same situation who may have been together 60 years instead of 30 years, it just wasn't a situation I was comfortable getting into (nor did I feel like it'd be comfortable for the homogeneous makeup of the groups I could find)

I also looked into individual counseling/therapy for both me and Will (with his blessing and interest of course). As luck would have it, we have personal connections through his school with all three of the recommended-by-professionals grief counselors in the area. And that was something that neither of us was comfortable with at ALL. Nothing against those folks really, it's just that it really felt unwise to go through counseling with someone who knew us as well as my wife previously, because they seem likely to ... how to say this? ... come into it with preconceived notions.

[PilotMan]

Totally off track and mildly amusing and a little bit of levity.....the same thing happened when my wife saw her gynecologist at the church we were going to. Since we stayed at that church for about a year she wasn't comfortable anymore. It was the last time she went to him as her coochie doctor. She left the practice altogether and then we left that church eventually. It was still rather funny and totally awkward.

Just wanted a little giggle here, not to take anything away from your experiences Jon.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Totally off track and mildly amusing and a little bit of levity.....the same thing happened when my wife saw her gynecologist at the church we were going to. Since we stayed at that church for about a year she wasn't comfortable anymore. It was the last time she went to him as her coochie doctor. She left the practice altogether and then we left that church eventually. It was still rather funny and totally awkward.

Just wanted a little giggle here, not to take anything away from your experiences Jon.

1000% fine, I see the humor.

Hell, you should have heard my reaction when I saw the list of recommended grief counselors I got from the local cancer support center. It was comically profane.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Below (spoiler tagged only due to length) is a repost from my social media earlier this afternoon. Some of it you have heard before I believe, some of it is more recent stuff I've only referenced (if that) here. But it definitely fits under the mental health category, just to have moved past a particular situation a bit and to finally be able to stop not mentioning some things in hopes of not upsetting an apple cart.

Spoiler

This is going to be long, fair warning.

Yesterday I said I'd probably share more about a situation but as I sit here and try to figure out how to explain it, I'm not sure I can do it all justice. It may be one of those things that you had to experience in real time to fully appreciate the frustration, aggravation, disappointment and madness of. But I'll try, mostly because I've been holding back saying anything in public for so long. The telling of yesterday's key point will require some backstory.

Some of you may recall that when my wife passed, we held two memorial services. One in Georgia, one in Tennessee. Let me be crystal clear before saying another word: I could not possibly be happier with every dealing we had with the funeral home here in Georgia. Everyone at Lord & Stephens Funeral Home were truly Godsends to us, professional in every respect AND a genuine blessing emotionally and spiritually. Role models for the entire industry as far as we're concerned.

And then there was our experience in Tennessee.

It's hard for me to imagine a more stressful phone call while en route to the service for a loved one than the one I received about when I was about an hour away: that's when the gravedigger called me to ask where he was supposed to dig. See, in all the time leading up to service - more than a week - no one at the funeral home bothered to tell the fellow where the gravesite was. Three hours before a graveside service is NOT the time for that conversation but that's what happened.

As I continued driving, the conversation continued but so did the confusion. Ultimately, Will had to leave the funeral home with family visitation underway and go point at the spot in the cemetery.

It probably won't be a surprise that the ten cent brain who'd been our point of contact -- the one that completely failed to communicate with a rather important person in the process -- spent the day trying to stay out of my sight. Her & her questionable hot pink hair scrunchie.

I'll skip ahead past numerous other details from that day -- like the employee carrying my wife's remains from the viewing room to the chapel under his arm like a football -- because I think you get the general idea. Though Lord KNOWS I could mention a number of other things.

And in spite of all of that, we still went back through these clowns when it was time to get the grave marker arranged and placed. A high priority for us was that her marker match her father's, as they are resting beside one another. And since the funeral home facilitated his marker, it seemed like the obvious route to a successful match.

Or so we foolishly thought.

I placed my first phone call to them to start the process on June 27th. Yesterday was September 13th. And in the 82 days between, I talked to three different people who were supposedly "handling it". My favorite had to be the worse-than-useless one who sighed so heavily before saying "well ... SIGH ... I guess I'll just have to go to the cemetery myself" Golly, I just hated for her to make that whole 15 minute drive in order to DO HER JOB.
3 weeks later, she no longer worked there either (the third person to actually depart their employment during this process)

In 82 days, the number of calls I made to them approached two dozen.
In 82 days the number of call backs I received totaled : 2
And in 82 days, the number of apologies I got for their previous failures probably topped a dozen ... yet after 82 days I still NEVER GOT A QUOTE.

And after 82 days of dealing with these mouthbreating inept incompetent clueless slackjawed lazy goodforlessthannothing morons , yesterday I'd finally had enough.

Whaddya know, my message that they latest in a string of salespeople needn't bother to respond to my latest inquiry DID generate a callback. Let's just say that my response to the attempts to explain/make excuses was ... terse.

Life is hard. Deaths are unspeakably hard. But I'll be damned and dipped in dogshit if anyone deserves to have incredibly difficult situations made even harder by the astounding collection of bumbling buffoons that have been assembled by Ralph Buckner in Cleveland, Tennessee at his namesake establishment and those associated with his enterprise.

Enjoy your fancy car and your funereal fiefdom Ralphie, as far as I'm concerned after my experiences those are the only values you have.

[Kodos]

Good god. I'm so sorry they made this so needlessly frustrating and hard. You'd think people in that business would be extra careful to run a tight ship.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Good god. I'm so sorry they made this so needlessly frustrating and hard. You'd think people in that business would be extra careful to run a tight ship.

It's been the opposite, if anything.

There's a good bit to unpack with that area's funeral home situation (which I sorta reference in my post but it's a sorta "if you know you know" kinda thing)

My very personal snark at the end wasn't an accident. That clown graduated high school with my wife, family has used that funeral home/group for decades.

But he took over from his father, then steadily bought out all but one funeral home in about a 30 miles radius. It's all but a monopoly at this point.

The bill from TN was roughly double the bill in GA, despite the fact that GA handled all the retrieval and movement of remains, the cremation, etc.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know if there is anything they did that violated any state laws/regs, but funeral homes are regulated. I'd file a complaint, if for no other reason than to hope someone would do better for the next family.

[thesloppy]

I am certain I would have blown my top in that situation. I am relatively good at letting that kind of shit slide under normal circumstances, but in an emotional situation like that I woulda lost it & I would probably end up buried in the graveyard at the end of the day.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I am certain I would have blown my top in that situation. I am relatively good at letting that kind of shit slide under normal circumstances, but in an emotional situation like that I woulda lost it.

It has taken every ounce of restraint I possess ... which ain't exactly notorious for being a lot.

But it was very important to Will that the stone match her father's as closely as possible. This seemed like the best odds of that.

But by the time I finally had enough yesterday, he & I were in complete agreement that enough was indeed ENOUGH.

The amount of emotional energy expended on this mess for the past 2.5 months is staggering.

[thesloppy]

I hope you can get some relief out of the fact that its behind you now, if nothing else.

[GrantDawg]

Sorry to see all of that, Jon. I have worked with numerous funeral homes in several states and have rarely found them less than professional. Sadly, many have become more corporate. With that comes a more drive to sale to pad the bill. But even dealing with corporate funeral services they have been generally well run and took their job very seriously. I can see how if the head of the company is incompetent, that would trickle down through all the employees. In general, most homes I have dealt with had employees that have been there for years. The fact you pointed out high turnover suggests a poorly run home.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[miami_fan]

I am so sorry you had to deal with that BS Jon. The number of times I said JFC as I read that post, I can only imagine the anger that you had boiling inside of you as this all played out.

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I am certain I would have blown my top in that situation. I am relatively good at letting that kind of shit slide under normal circumstances, but in an emotional situation like that I woulda lost it & I would probably end up buried in the graveyard at the end of the day.

We made it a point that we had at least two "outsiders" around whenever my sister in law had to do anything associated with her husband's death. We didn't want her or her son especially to deal with any of this sort of BS. There were 8 people around the table when we met with the funeral home. Fortunately we were blessed with a good one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

In general, most homes I have dealt with had employees that have been there for years. The fact you pointed out high turnover suggests a poorly run home.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

The owner / head of the fiefdom made a brief appearance on the day of my wife's service.

in his golf attire. In his Jaguar.

It eventually took two weeks to get the final bill ... because he hadn't been around to finalize it.

By the time we got the bill, it was marked past due ... because it was dated from the day someone started the invoice rather than the day we were given the invoice.

Get the picture?

[JonInMiddleGA]

The shitshow of things at that service (forgive me if I've mentioned this before, I don't remember and I'm honestly too lazy to scroll back & look) ...

Mine & Will's most abiding memory - aside from the gravedigging clusterfuckery -- will likely be the comically bad musical performance.

The vocalist (i refuse to dignify her by saying "singer") was so off key that he & I actually looked at each other quizzically during and had to consciously try to NOT laugh (and I don't mean in a good way)

A dear lifelong friend of mine was at the service, she's a second generation piano instructor.

After the service she wandered back into the chapel and played a few bars, just to check the tuning & such. She leaned over and whispered that to me later that said "now we know: it wasn't the piano's fault"

[flere-imsaho]

I have no words.

[Edward64]

Jon, very sorry you have to deal with all this BS.

[sterlingice]

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. We've been dealing with a.lot. this year - I haven't shared with this board yet, mainly because the time required to do it justice. Aside: it's a strange thing, along with each interaction of telling someone about a death making it more real and reliving some of the grief each time, there's also the desire to really do justice to the people who you want to tell this news to and that becomes a pressure in and of itself. Anyhoo...

I really mean it with the laughing and crying - like sometimes you think about how this sort of dumbfuckery can trivialize those people and things most important to you. But other times, it makes you go, you know I needed a good laugh and imbeciles like this can inadvertently deliver.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

I hate to so frequently be the one who bumps this thread but, well, y'all have been on this ride a long time so it feels like you're just part of it, you belong.

Repurposing from my social media cause, well, easier.

Need to say something, not really sure what nor how. That usually leads to me rambling a bit so there's your warning I guess.

Today would have been our 29th wedding anniversary. Or should I still say "is", even if we don't get to celebrate it together? I don't really know how that works exactly.

And that phrase sums up the great bulk of the last six months or so: I don't know how any of this works.

I won't lie, I've been dreading today for weeks now. More than anything perhaps, from simply not knowing how it would hit.

Mostly, I've done what I do quite a bit lately: try to find ways to avoid thought as much as possible. Stay up too late with one gaming-related distraction or another, sleep well into the day, suddenly you've avoided half the day. It's imperfect perhaps but it feels better than a lot of the alternatives.

But I've noted in recent weeks that I seem to have like "delayed reaction" to some triggers, like the weight of something lands not at the time but a couple days later. And so now I'll wait on that shoe to drop too.

I've thought quite a bit in the past few days about how many people I know who've been where I am. Some as new to it as I am, others who've had decades of experience with it. What I suspect is that every one of them would have a different insight into how you handle these this stuff. All the stuff.

I don't think there IS a "right way" or a "wrong way", there's just the "do the best you can way". Imperfect, with all the bruises and scuff marks that come with imperfection.

Sometimes you just stub your toe, other times you fall down a long flight of stairs and bounce off the wall and hit every bannister on the way down ... and while you're tumbling, you're just hoping there's not a pile of barbed wire & broken glass waiting on you at the bottom.

Right way, wrong way, best you can way. As I get the tears back in check over here, I'm thinking about how many variations of those phrases were used in describing over 28 years of marriage.

That ain't how most people talk about anniversaries I guess, but it worked for us. How else could you explain anybody putting up with me for so long?
I went that route in observing our anniversary most years, she most often reminded me that she "promised it'd never be dull".

Oh what I wouldn't give for some dull, some routine, some normal-for-us.

I love you honey, and I miss you.

[NobodyHere]

Sometimes we all just need to let it out.

For some strange reason I find it helpful to broadcast my lovelife.

I think a good think about this site is that you can generally receive some helpful criticism.

[Izulde]

When I was researching grief processes after Mom died, what I found is that you're right - there's literally no right, wrong, or best way - it's all an individual process that has no timelines and even no real end points - it just becomes a less than

[miami_fan]

Jon,

As I read through the last half of your post, I just kept saying you are right. There is no right way or wrong way to grief. All you can do is the best you can. The guy that wrote that post seems to be figuring out his way of moving forward one step at a time, one day at a time. And he is doing so with much more clarity than you are giving him credit for.

Also, there really really is no need for you for you to not bump this thread if doing so helps you through this process. That is why it is here.

[Kodos]

If bumping this thread helps even one percent, do it as often as you need. You’ve been through a terrible trauma. If talking it out helps you heal, there are all sorts of guys here who care about you and who will have words of support for you.

[PilotMan]

Ok guys....I'm bumping this because I need to vent, and I need some cooler, objective heads.

Many of you know, through my posts, or life, that I have an ever deteriorating relationship with my Dad. He hasn't set foot in my house in maybe 15 years. We've not gone to visit and stay with him in well over 10. My boys have been down there maybe 7 years ago, and for a while they were pretty regular. I actually flew to see him personally, and tell him that I wanted them to be more involved in our lives, and see them more. I was told that after his wife's parents pass away, they will have more time to focus on us. That was the point I stopped asking. After they passed, I didn't say anything, but lo and behold, nothing changed. Three years ago they were in Louisville, and said they would have a free day and asked if we could bring the kids down. I said, why didn't you plan to drive up here and have a couple days with us? He replied, It never crossed my mind. He's a very, very self absorbed man, who on observation of his actions, never really wanted kids.

He is a former prisoner of war in Vietnam. He was shot down, survived the ejection and was prisoner for 6 months. He was 24 when it happened, and was 25 when he came home. At that age, he became somewhat of a celebrity because of all of it. He's given speeches about it, been in books, been a guest at the White House, ridden in the pace car at the Indy 500, been in parades, you name it. So much of his entire life, in spite of the rest of his Air Force career, and subsequent career in aviation, has revolved around this incident. He's had a child, been married 3 times, but in terms of defining who he is, it's all about this.

So fast forward to two days ago.

He sends a group text to my 3 boys, and his niece (who is maybe 36 or 37?, and not in their peer group) but not his nephew, or myself. It says:

"I don't know if any of y'all know or care but fifty years ago today I was shot down and became a POW."

I found out because my cousin messaged me and she actually apologized for his behavior. She said she answered him because it seemed like something was off. So that was the first I saw it. The part that got me was the passive aggressive tone of "know or care". Trust me, they know he was a POW.

Now, the first response was from my oldest who asked if Grandpa was ok. Because even he picked up the undertone of the message. He asked what he should say, and I said, "I think you respond, if you want, the way that feels right to you."

Now, that's not earth shattering, but it's leaving the door open for them to make adult decisions about the relationship that they are having with him. They are well aware of the issues between he and I, and the reasons why he's a big topic of my therapy for years (absent father stuff), so they might have some loyalty to me in that regard.

I called him for the first time since April to chat. Because I felt like my calling would head off any issues. He mentioned that they didn't message him back, and I honestly said, I don't think they know what to say. He asked if they even knew about it. Which again, sounds insane to me, because two of them have scholarships from the Vietnam fighter organization he has belonged to. It really felt like he just wanted someone to say, "good job". Really, I still don't know what he thought they should say.

Side bar.....I talked with my mom in the morning and she told me it was the 50th anniversary as well. She said, I'll never forget anything from that day, the day before, or after. She was staying with his parents and they were all together when they got the military visit. So she went through all that, for the entire time, she went to the White House, and other stuff, but once she was divorced, she was totally abandon and cut from any other recognition. My step mom, my Dad's third wife, now gets, and has always gotten all those accolades for 'what she went through'. She said that she cried in the morning thinking about all those memories.

During our conversation, I told him about that, and initially he said, "well tell her thank you", but then he realized I was talking about her, not him and her being sad. And he quickly changed it to, 'well I had a bad day that day too," Which just came across as whining, especially after I pointed out the shit she went through with his parents. They have been divorced 45 years. He's 74 now.

So that brings me to today. I get a message from a different son that asked if everyone got that text. What text? Sent again to the same group chat.

"We'll (my niece) responded to me. No one else. Are you boys so fucking self absorbed that you can't even bother to acknowledge your grandfather's text?"

Holy Shit.

My kids are 27,20 and 19. They are grown ups, but fuck me. I saw RED. It was like a slow build. I'm a patient guy. I'm also quite non-confrontational. I do hit a point where I totally lose my shit and go in to 'fight now' mode, and buddy, I was there. Luckily, my wife was available to listen and help. She made me some lunch and my shaking slowly ebbed.

Ultimately, I told the boys I was going to handle it. I wouldn't message him anymore if that was how he was going to be, if I were them. Instead of going fucking bonkers via text or a call, I simply texted him that I'll be addressing it, but not today, because I needed time to calm down, and come up with a response, but that he was out of line and I wouldn't talk with him today.

Of course, he responded with "Think what you want. Can't the boys speak for themselves?" and "This is between me and them. You're not a part of it." I will not respond. For a couple weeks at least.

So gentlemen.....fuck...I am still pissed. Thank you for listening, and if you have some kind words or commiserations I'd love to hear them.

[flere-imsaho]

Wow, what a dick. Sorry you've had to go through that, PM.

[Kodos]

Man, I have little patience for stuff like that. What a dick. I would probably decide to just cut someone like that totally out of my life. You have my sympathy.