NFL 2020 Season Thread

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Perhaps Gregg Williams is trying to get the bounty-gate stain off of him by being the defensive coordinator on two 0-16 teams?

Well it looks like he won't be able to finish the task

Gregg Williams: New York Jets fire coordinator after collapse

[albionmoonlight]

Gregg Williams' career died doing what it loved: playing needlessly reckless football in a meaningless game of a lost season while almost certainly working some sort of behind-the-scenes power play on a doomed staff.

— Kevin Clark (@bykevinclark) December 7, 2020

If sending a zero blitz into a Hail Mary situation is the last defensive call that Gregg Williams ever makes, I think it's the way he would've wanted to go out.

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) December 7, 2020

Nobody:

Gregg Williams: pic.twitter.com/xYQxShpf1T

— Geoff Schwartz (@geoffschwartz) December 7, 2020

All Gregg Williams needed to do to save his job was 'Ask Madden' pic.twitter.com/JfYi2PqGOm

— NFL Memes (@NFL_Memes) December 7, 2020

Rex Ryan on the Gregg Williams call (via @GetUpESPN): “Dumbest call I’ve ever seen. Been around the thing for 58 years, 30 years as a coach. That’s the dumbest call ever. There’s a time and place for Cover-0. That sure ain’t it. It’s just stupid.” #Jets pic.twitter.com/pvFtL1XgBh

— Rich Cimini (@RichCimini) December 7, 2020

[Kodos]

Wow. That's amazing.

[sterlingice]

These are the little things in life that make me laugh for at least 2 minutes until I have tears in my eyes

SI

[Lathum]

How is Anthony Lynn still employed?

[NobodyHere]

So who had the WTF beating the Steelers?

[Ksyrup]

Boo Pro Football Talk for not using this:

PFT: WTF WFT?

Washington hands Pittsburgh its first loss https://t.co/KQ70p6nPkJ

— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) December 8, 2020

[Lathum]

Just heard an interesting theory. Jax holds the tiebreaker over the Jets, so if they are both 1-15 the Jags get the pick. The Pats play the Jets week 17. Would it be inconceivable that Hoodie throws the game so the Jets win and he doesn't have to face Trevor Lawrence twice a year for the next 13 seasons.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just heard an interesting theory. Jax holds the tiebreaker over the Jets, so if they are both 1-15 the Jags get the pick. The Pats play the Jets week 17. Would it be inconceivable that Hoodie throws the game so the Jets win and he doesn't have to face Trevor Lawrence twice a year for the next 13 seasons.

New England would probably have to be out of playoff contention, where they're .5 and 1 behind Baltimore at 6-5 and Vegas 7-5 in 8th/7th and they have wins over both.

[Ksyrup]

Also, what if Lawrence either goes back for another year or pulls an Elway/Manning and strong-arms his way to another team?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by bronconick

New England would probably have to be out of playoff contention, where they're .5 and 1 behind Baltimore at 6-5 and Vegas 7-5 in 8th/7th and they have wins over both.

Well, yeah, thats a given.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Also, what if Lawrence either goes back for another year or pulls an Elway/Manning and strong-arms his way to another team?

Then so be it. Why would BB win a meaningless game and let a division rival get a generational talent?

[bronconick]

It's the Jets, though. Odds are they'll ruin Lawrence anyway.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, perhaps letting the Jets have him is better than letting him to go one of the other 30 teams to develop.

[albionmoonlight]

I don't know Lawrence's personality or motivations.

But most young superstars try to fight to get into the NYC market.

Yeah, he's Southern fried. Yeah, the Jets are a dumpster fire.

But NYC is NYC, you know? Once his agent starts showing him some hard numbers regarding his potential marketing contracts, I could see him saying JETS JETS JETS

I wish CUTiger hadn't left the board. I'm sure he knows some folks with inside perspective on how Lawrence might act in that situation.

[Ksyrup]

Don't you need success to really capitalize though?

Darnold was #3 overall and is considered damaged goods, possibly redeemable only outside of NY. I assume he got some decent marketing coin upfront, but I can't believe it was anything crazy.

Mark Sanchez was probably "it" for about 2 years in NY? I wonder how much he was able to capitalize. Obviously, he's now only known for the butt fumble.

[albionmoonlight]

Hmmmm.

You make good points.

Football is such a weird sport.

If this were the NBA, getting to NYC would pretty much be the endgame, even if the player didn't succeed.

But maybe the NFL is so national that it does not matter . . .

[Ksyrup]

Shoe contracts for basketball are enormous. How much do players capitalize on equipment sales otherwise? What piece of jersey sales do they get - is that part of NFL/NFLPA stuff? You don't see many guys from other sports coming out with their own line of "X" like basketball players do. In most sports, the jersey is the most recognizable thing there is to sell.

Of course, I could be wrong. I'm not exactly the market for these companies so maybe I don't see it.

[sterlingice]

The NFL matters a lot less for where you are. Think of the major stars from the last 10 years: they play in Boston, yes, but also New Orleans, Indianapolis, Green Bay, and Kansas City. There are a couple of markets where you get a little bit of outsized coverage like NYC, Boston, and Dallas but it's nothing compared to, say, MLB.

SI

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just heard an interesting theory. Jax holds the tiebreaker over the Jets, so if they are both 1-15 the Jags get the pick. The Pats play the Jets week 17. Would it be inconceivable that Hoodie throws the game so the Jets win and he doesn't have to face Trevor Lawrence twice a year for the next 13 seasons.

That reminds me, on our coverage we get interviews in game breaks with the Around the NFL podcast guys.

Not sure if it was intentional, but centre of the bottom row on the bookshelf behind them, Marc Sessler had positioned Ian O’Connor’s ‘Belichick’ right to a book prominently titled ‘Major Crimes’

[Ksyrup]

Wentz finally benched for a start.

[thesloppy]

A Tuesdaay night party?

[sabotai]

I'm not sure I feel about the Wentz benching. I'm trying to look at it objectively, and as a die-hard Giants fan, that's tough.

Carson Wentz's stats for the last 3 seasons
40 Games, 10,409 yards (260.2 yards per game), 81 TDs, 21 INTs, 96 sacks, 6.2 Sack%

(For reference, NFL average is 5.8% for sacks)

He's having a bad year. He has fixable issues. His mechanics have gotten sloppy and he's prone to 'hero ball'. He's been sacked a lot this year (50), and quite a lot of them were his fault for holding onto the ball during his 'hero ball' moments (and quite a lot are because his offensive line is playing like hot garbage)

If you believe that your franchise QB is having a bad year, but he has fixable issues and can continue being our franchise QB for the next decade, do you ever bench him for any reason? I'd say no. I'd say you let him play through his issues and work on them. Benching your franchise QB undermines his ability to be a leader of the team (IMO anyway).

Wentz is far from the perfect QB. He's always had and will probably always have issues around his mechanics. He'll always have his hero ball moments. This year both (and other issues) have gotten a lot worse. But there's very few reasons to believe that Wentz can't work on them and at least get back in the '17-'19 range of performance again.

One of those few reasons, though, would be that Wentz is uncoachable. At least, that's the rumor I see and hear once in awhile concerning him. It is odd to see a QB's mechanics get worse as the years go on. Tells me that Wentz is either not working on it, or his coaches are too incompetent to spot an issue that everyone else has (or are too incompetent to know how to fix it).

If I were really cynical, I might say this was a move of desperation from a head coach terrified of losing his job. He knows he needs to do "something", or it's likely he'll lose his job. Or, maybe, Peterson really does believe that Wentz is uncoachable, has reached the end of his rope with him, and is moving on to someone he believes is coachable.

[Ksyrup]

I tend to think this is just a move to salvage the season. Two weeks ago when they were in 1st place he didn't think "giving up" on the season was fair. Now that they need to make up ground, he made the move. If this is temporary and he expects Wentz to regain form and his job next year, the major risk is Hurts rallies the team to a playoff spot. But then that's not exactly a terrible thing, because maybe he'll play well and give you options.

[Ksyrup]

Dez Bryant tests positive. If anyone is deemed a close contact, they won't be playing. Perhaps Lamar will be able to show us what he can do 1 on 11.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sabotai

If you believe that your franchise QB is having a bad year, but he has fixable issues and can continue being our franchise QB for the next decade, do you ever bench him for any reason?

If you're a half-game away from being in last place in a historically bad division, how franchise-y can he be? More likely, they've realized that he's "a guy". He may turn out to be the guy you're stuck with again next year, but still, a guy.

And if anybody ought to be coaching for their jobs, it's whomever finishes at the bottom of the Shitshow Division.

[Carman Bulldog]

I'm curious if the Colts would have interest in Wentz. How much would they realistically have to give up for him? A 5th?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I'm curious if the Colts would have interest in Wentz. How much would they realistically have to give up for him? A 5th?

Doesn't seem like it makes any sense for Philly to give up on him for at least one more season. Carson Wentz Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Doesn't seem like it makes any sense for Philly to give up on him for at least one more season. Carson Wentz Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

• 2021 Roster Bonus: $10M (guaranteed, paid the 3rd league day of 2021)

• $15M of 2022 salary fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2021

If you keep him, not only do you have the $10 million roster bonus payable, but $15 million of his 2022 salary also becomes guaranteed.

If you trade him, I don't think the cap hit is unmanageable and if you are going to move on, you might as well do it right away.

[sabotai]

Wentz is sure going to be pissed, though, about missing out on that sweet $1,000 roster bonus in 2022.

[JPhillips]

How much is Darnold worth and would you trade for him even if Wentz was available?

[sabotai]

The four scenarios with regards to the Eagles cap hit are shown if you click the "dead cap" link on that site. The Eagles will actually save on the cap (barely - at least according to that site) if they trade Wentz before June 1st. I think the reason is because the team trading for Wentz would then take on the salary guarantees, but if you cut him you have to eat them (but that's a guess)

Year: 2021

Pre 6/1 Release
2021 Dead Cap: $59,220,614
2021 Cap Savings: $-24,547,078

Pre 6/1 Trade
2021 Dead Cap: $33,820,614
2021 Cap Savings: $852,922

Post 6/1 Release
2021 Dead Cap: $49,673,538
2022 Dead Cap: $24,547,076
2021 Cap Savings: $-15,000,002

Post 6/1 Trade
2021 Dead Cap: $9,273,538
2022 Dead Cap: $24,547,076
2021 Cap Savings: $25,399,998

[bhlloy]

Wentz career arc so far is totally bizarre - from the guy who had a ton of potential but almost certainly wouldn't be NFL ready right away due to playing at a very low level in college, to being pretty damn good right away after all, now to being well below replacement level?

I don't know how you don't look at that and think coaching or the offense doesn't have a ton to do with it, but then you watch him and he's not good and can't make the simplest of reads or make throws under pressure and it makes you wonder what has really changed.

I'd definitely trade for him if I needed a QB...I'm pretty confident he can be the next Tannehill or a poor mans Josh Allen in the right offense with a good coach. I wonder if the 49ers take a punt.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

How much is Darnold worth and would you trade for him even if Wentz was available?

With everyone knowing the Jets have to move on, I think they'd be doing very well to get the same package as Rosen (2nd and 5th) - think it's probably more likely they might have to take a 3rd.

I'm a huge Darnold apologist and I'd still take Wentz over him. Wentz at least has done it at this level and hasn't been a turnover machine at the college and NFL level. I honestly don't think the light is going to go on with Darnold, although somebody is going to convince themselves it's just poor coaching he got with the Jets and USC and they wouldn't be wrong.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Wentz career arc so far is totally bizarre - from the guy who had a ton of potential but almost certainly wouldn't be NFL ready right away due to playing at a very low level in college, to being pretty damn good right away after all, now to being well below replacement level?

I don't know how you don't look at that and think coaching or the offense doesn't have a ton to do with it, but then you watch him and he's not good and can't make the simplest of reads or make throws under pressure and it makes you wonder what has really changed.

I'd definitely trade for him if I needed a QB...I'm pretty confident he can be the next Tannehill or a poor mans Josh Allen in the right offense with a good coach. I wonder if the 49ers take a punt.

I have been side-eyeing the situation as a 49ers fan for a bit. There don't seem to be many good options for them outside of Jimmy Garoppolo figuring out his injury trouble and being his best self, but a free Carson Wentz would be very interesting with Kyle Shanahan.

[sabotai]

20 minute long video from Brett Kollmann breaking down what's wrong with Wentz from a little over a week ago.

If you don't want to watch it all, he's the TLDR rundown.

1) Mechanics
a) Over-striding - he's stepping too far into his throws sometimes, causing the ball to come out flat
b) Pigeon-Toeing - When he steps into his throws, his foot is pointing inside. You want to point your foot towards where you're throwing. Pointing your foot inside will cause your passes to drift that way. Brett credits 4 INTs to this one issue alone.

He makes the point that there are a lot of coaches that believe you should not try to fix mechanical issues in the middle of the season for fear of making things worse.

2) Hero Ball - he says this is probably his biggest issue

3) Doug Peterson - Peterson's play calling isn't helping. He highlights a baffling play call from Peterson. It's 2nd and 19, and Peterson calls a play action shot play (only 2 players running deep routes, everyone else pass protecting). This play call makes zero sense. No one is biting on a play fake on 2nd and 19, so of course his 2 route runners are blanketed. Wentz ends up doing his hero-ball act, gets sacked and fumbles.


And when I watched this the first time over a week ago, I thought he was being a bit sensationalist at the end of the video. Turns out he was spot on.

[bhlloy]

A thought experiment popped into my head watching the game tonight... say you can pick any lineup of 11 offensive players from NFL history, but you have to pick a non-QB and run the wildcat or basically just hand off the ball full time, how many wins do you think you'd get in the NFL in 2020?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

A thought experiment popped into my head watching the game tonight... say you can pick any lineup of 11 offensive players from NFL history, but you have to pick a non-QB and run the wildcat or basically just hand off the ball full time, how many wins do you think you'd get in the NFL in 2020?

Interesting question. My guess would be 5 or less. Teams seem to be very good at stopping the run these days especially in situations it is expected. Even with how bad the Jets are this year they do a decent job of containing the run. With the playmakers you will end up with at running back, wild cat QB, and the best offensive line in NFL history however I think you could manage a few wins.

My guess was on the assumption that this team would have an average 2020 NFL defense.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by sabotai

20 minute long video from Brett Kollmann breaking down what's wrong with Wentz from a little over a week ago.

If you don't want to watch it all, he's the TLDR rundown.

1) Mechanics
a) Over-striding - he's stepping too far into his throws sometimes, causing the ball to come out flat
b) Pigeon-Toeing - When he steps into his throws, his foot is pointing inside. You want to point your foot towards where you're throwing. Pointing your foot inside will cause your passes to drift that way. Brett credits 4 INTs to this one issue alone.

He makes the point that there are a lot of coaches that believe you should not try to fix mechanical issues in the middle of the season for fear of making things worse.

2) Hero Ball - he says this is probably his biggest issue

3) Doug Peterson - Peterson's play calling isn't helping. He highlights a baffling play call from Peterson. It's 2nd and 19, and Peterson calls a play action shot play (only 2 players running deep routes, everyone else pass protecting). This play call makes zero sense. No one is biting on a play fake on 2nd and 19, so of course his 2 route runners are blanketed. Wentz ends up doing his hero-ball act, gets sacked and fumbles.


And when I watched this the first time over a week ago, I thought he was being a bit sensationalist at the end of the video. Turns out he was spot on.

I think he lost his confidence when his TEs/WRs have been getting injured at an unusually high rate over the past two years. Plus his offensive line was in rough shape earlier in the year. I dont think he was ever the MVP caliber QB that was being mentioned a few years back but I think he will be a solid 12-18th range QB if he can get his confidence back.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by sabotai

The four scenarios with regards to the Eagles cap hit are shown if you click the "dead cap" link on that site. The Eagles will actually save on the cap (barely - at least according to that site) if they trade Wentz before June 1st. I think the reason is because the team trading for Wentz would then take on the salary guarantees, but if you cut him you have to eat them (but that's a guess)

Year: 2021

Pre 6/1 Release
2021 Dead Cap: $59,220,614
2021 Cap Savings: $-24,547,078

Pre 6/1 Trade
2021 Dead Cap: $33,820,614
2021 Cap Savings: $852,922

Post 6/1 Release
2021 Dead Cap: $49,673,538
2022 Dead Cap: $24,547,076
2021 Cap Savings: $-15,000,002

Post 6/1 Trade
2021 Dead Cap: $9,273,538
2022 Dead Cap: $24,547,076
2021 Cap Savings: $25,399,998

It would be like all those NBA trades in the 90s that were just about dumping salary.

Philadelphia could trade Wentz and a 2nd for a 7th or something like that.

[RendeR]

Wentz will be fine on a team with a solid O-line and a coach who doesn't expect his QB to dance like a parade monkey and still make plays.

Colts are a good fit. Smarter coach by far than Peder-dumbass. one of the best O-lines in the game currently, and a solid young-ish WR group. Oh and a defense that is ridiculous good.

[PilotMan]

Bengals running back just ran into the back of his LT and fumbled and Aldon Smith took it to the house. That's almost butt fumble level of bad there.

[bhlloy]

So... how sure are we that Colt McCoy isn’t the best QB on the Giants roster? Jones looks lost again.

[damnMikeBrown]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Bengals running back just ran into the back of his LT and fumbled and Aldon Smith took it to the house. That's almost butt fumble level of bad there.

Bad on the rb, but fairly certain that the tackles blocking assignment didn’t include “push to the gap, then stop dead still and look around “. Or maybe it was...I mean, Bengals and all

[MizzouRah]

Derrick Henry is unreal.. too bad I have a bye week in fantasy football because he's once again killing it for my team.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Derrick Henry is unreal.. too bad I have a bye week in fantasy football because he's once again killing it for my team.

I bet him to have more than 110.5 rushing yards. It was like stealing money

[albionmoonlight]

No one in the NFL looks or plays more like a Madden Create-A-Player than Derrick Henry.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I bet him to have more than 110.5 rushing yards. It was like stealing money

Haha.. for real.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

No one in the NFL looks or plays more like a Madden Create-A-Player than Derrick Henry.

Game is unrealistic cpu Henry rushing for 215 yards against me.

[cuervo72]

“Other things they do in the parking lot.”

[PilotMan]

Pittsburgh is getting exposed tonight. Started good, but it's looking clinical right now.