04-30-2009, 11:32 AM | #951 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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Gladhanding 8 - dubbx3, clapx3, jeheinzx3 (9/8)
Oratory 8 - Purduex3, daddyx3, Autumn (7/8) Treasury 8 - Barkeepx3, Eaglefan, USFL (5/8) Organization 8 - Ntdeaconx3, Poli (4/8) So, that's 11 out of 19? laborers right now. If all are 1 pointers we only just barely make it. I think we've got one more organization specialist though. |
04-30-2009, 11:34 AM | #952 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
This is pretty much the same conversation I had with RendeR. Here's what I said to him: Quote:
I guess I just have the same question for you -- are you saying that you would have changed your action, because of EagleFan's arrest, which happened after the mission you went on? |
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04-30-2009, 11:36 AM | #953 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
We do -- Schmidty. |
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04-30-2009, 11:38 AM | #954 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Catonsville, MD
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Quote:
XEENTHRAX HAS BEEN FOUND. XEENTHRAX, THE ENSORCELLED DEMON HAS ARRIVED! XEENTHRAX WILL FEAST ON THE BLOOD OF THE RIGHTEOUS. KWHIT WILL WIELD XEENTHRAX TO VANQUISH ALL FOES. Whoops, sorry, wrong game...
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Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent Last edited by Abe Sargent : 04-30-2009 at 11:38 AM. |
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04-30-2009, 11:41 AM | #955 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Abe -- is the amount of work we have to do to convert each camp a function of how many people are alive, or does it simply go down each day based on the assumption that there will be less people alive as the game goes on? Or does it have nothing to do with either?
Hmm. It went up from 29 to 32 today, right? Blah. |
04-30-2009, 11:41 AM | #956 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
Lets take your points one at a time: 1) I in no way encouraged, cajoled or suggested that anyone ELSE go. My only statement at any time (IIRC) was that the ONLY people that should go are the searcher skill people because we're BETTER at searching than anyone else. 2) How does my post relate in any way to a wolf? This is just gibberish, makes no sense at all. 3) Again this is you putting words in my mouth, I did not encourage any line of thinking, period. You're twisting my words to fit your suspicions, not basing it on any facts or reality here. 4) I assume you're talking about yourself here, you're making a number of misleading statements in this post. First the fact that it was already clear we would have trouble making the camp, it was NOT clear at the time I joined the mission, in fact based on our numbers it seemed very clear TO ME that we'd make it just fine. I couldn't know they could lock up one of our primary workers after the fact any more than you or anyone else. You keep repeating the "throw suspicion on a villager" line, which is a very easy way to build sympathy and push people away from considering you at all. As of right now you are no more cleared or trusted than anyone, myself included. The more you play this card the more I actually suspect you. I'm also bothered by your wording about "making it seem unpatriotic to not go on the mission" I never suggested any such thing. I stated, quite simply that IMO we should never ignore the missions completely. I stand by that, but given a real and certain knowledge that we will fail a camp unless we ignore the mission I would certainly pass up the mission to save the camp. Yesterday that was NOT the case, no matter how loudly you trumpet that you knew it would fail and push blame at the mission-goers. Add to this the fact that my mission was in fact successful and has brought us an item that will help us with a future camp and you really seem to be going out of your way to paint me as bad here. Right now besides PB, you're my #1 target for vote tonight. My reasons being noted above, you're using very flimsy reasoning and twisting the statements made to fit your suspicion. |
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04-30-2009, 11:46 AM | #957 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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Render, that was an analysis based on an assumption that you were a wolf. If you were a wolf, I think you can see how those points might follow. If you are not a wolf then they wouldn't apply. I'm hoping to spur some conversation and I guess I certainly got some out of you.
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04-30-2009, 11:47 AM | #958 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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Quote:
Specifically, this is the point of the post. I looked at each person on the mission and examined why they might be a wolf. So, twisting your statements to my suspicion was exactly what I was trying to do. Clearly there's no proof you're a Sympathizer, or anyone else. It's just analysis. |
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04-30-2009, 11:49 AM | #959 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
Did I ever answer this? I can't remember. Obviously enough since the arrest was later in teh day (someone posted 24 minutes after the mission deadline) that I couldn't have based my decision on that. At the time I posted to go on Mission I believed we were fine on teh camp (which we were without sympathizer interference). If something had changed so that I knew we needed more on the camps I would certainly have worked on the camps. We didn't need overkill the first day, I didn't believe we needed it yesterday, I was wrong and the sympathizers made a perfect play. Thats just how it played out. Sorry if I already said this once. yesterday/last night are mostly a blur. |
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04-30-2009, 11:51 AM | #960 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
But its bad analysis, thats MY point. You're creating confusion instead of helping clarify anything. Thats a wolf play, not a union play. Try not to intentionally muck up the waters in the future please. |
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04-30-2009, 11:51 AM | #961 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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Quote:
This is not pointed just at you Render, but at anyone who claims we didn't know we would fail before EagleFan's arrest. Before his arrest we had one extra man-hour beyond the requirements on all the jobs total. One extra man-hour on all three jobs. How is it not clear that this is not enough in a game with Sympathizers who can fake work? Even if Eagle Fan had not been arrested all it took was 1 wolf to fake and we lose. Those who went on the mission suggesting that they thought we were all set because we had one extra man hour make me wonder what they're thinking. We needed at least three extra man hours to at least make the wolves work at defeating us. That was fairly clear when you joined the mission, I thought. |
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04-30-2009, 11:51 AM | #962 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
RendeR, it looks like Poli made the same claim you did -- that he would have switched off the mission if he had been around. So far, he hasn't given any reasoning other than "hours were needed," which sounds like his reasoning was the same as yours -- the EF's arrest would have made him switch off, but that happened after the mission, so he really could not have. And he's taken off, I want to chat, and you're around and can relate -- any thoughts on it? |
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04-30-2009, 11:52 AM | #963 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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Quote:
So, you'd suggest instead of trying to find a Sympathizer I do what? Isn't this the point of the game, to attempt to guess who is a Sympathizer? Give me a break. |
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04-30-2009, 11:53 AM | #964 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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More specifically, even if I were a sympathizer, you're analysis is random and has no real substance to really verify that, so people might as well randomly throw darts and see who they hit as go by what you posted.
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04-30-2009, 11:54 AM | #965 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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Quote:
I think you pretty much answered it last night, that when you made the claim, you were confused about how EF's arrest went down. I just don't get how both you and Poli thought we were 'fine' so early in the morning, though. |
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04-30-2009, 11:56 AM | #966 |
Head Coach
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Render, would you like to offer some analysis yourself then? I posted things about Poli, Jackal, Purdue, TheNorm and you. You seem to think I'm picking on you, so why don't you tell us who else we should be voting for?
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04-30-2009, 11:56 AM | #967 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
And all I'm saying is that AT THAT TIME, it was not that clear. IMO. Obviously after the fact I was wrong, but remember also that on day 1 the MISSION guaranteed victory in the camp, part of my belief in the missions is the fact that this can happen again. If one of us had recovered an item that guaranteed victory in the camps AGAIN, we wouldn't be being bitched about, no? Just because it rolled out one way and not the other does not put any more suspicion on those who went on the mission than it does on anyone else. |
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04-30-2009, 11:58 AM | #968 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
I don't get this either. I'm not sure who simply didn't understand the numbers or the game, and who is making a wolf play. Let's ask a general question. Who here thought it was safe to go with one extra man-hour on our jobs yesterday? Is that a generally held conclusion? |
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04-30-2009, 12:01 PM | #969 | |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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Quote:
Had I been online and read the conversation that there was concern we wouldn't get the camp converted, I would have moved my work/hours to one of the areas of concern. If I'm not mistaken, there was some concern before Eaglefan's arrest that we wouldn't convert the camp.
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04-30-2009, 12:03 PM | #970 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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Quote:
I don't think you're picking on me, I think you're analysis is very weak and poorly formed, thats all. Just because you talk the most doesn't mean what you say is valid, it just means you know how to glad-handle (grin) really well. I no longer get to sit at a desk all day with the time to delve through all the pages. if I did I would go through and look at your analysis of everyone else and offer some myself. As it is I can only critique your analysis of myself. |
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04-30-2009, 12:05 PM | #971 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
I typed out my answer to this, but I'm copying it in notepad and saving it for later. I feel like I've been dominating conversation a little, and would like to hear some other thoughts first. |
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04-30-2009, 12:05 PM | #972 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Fresno, CA
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Some people seem a tad hyper-agressive in either their defense or their "attack" of other folks.
I'll likely be voting for one of them. |
04-30-2009, 12:05 PM | #973 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Well-timed Pass
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04-30-2009, 12:05 PM | #974 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY
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And on the point of having only 1 work unit more than we needed in ALL areas, what difference would the three of us on the mission have made Autumn? at most we cover ONE project with enough to protect it, the sympathizers would simply have changed who they arrested to screw us either way and then we wouldn't have any items AND we'd have lost the camp, lose lose or lose-win, I'll take what we got at this point.
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04-30-2009, 12:06 PM | #975 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
But you felt that there was no concern in the morning when you checked in? |
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04-30-2009, 12:06 PM | #976 |
Coordinator
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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bbiab, lunchtime for renderlings.
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04-30-2009, 12:07 PM | #977 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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04-30-2009, 12:10 PM | #978 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
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I guess the reason I'm harping on this is that I had pretty high concern all morning about getting the camps converted -- I think my posts from that time bear that out. I also felt like we were really up against it, with two people going on the mission that I thought had a good chance of not returning, and not knowing if we had a second organizer for a while. And for people to come in later and say, "oh if I had been around, sure, I wouldn't have gone on the mission, meanwhile I'll just enjoy the item I got" really rubs me the wrong way, since I feel like I had to clean up their mess.
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04-30-2009, 12:10 PM | #979 | |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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Quote:
Shrug.
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04-30-2009, 12:11 PM | #980 | |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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Quote:
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04-30-2009, 12:12 PM | #981 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
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Quote:
My worry wasn't an arrest, which we knew nothing about. It was faking work. And of course you're right, they still could have screwed us. But we could have made it so that they had to have several people fake, which would have made it more obvious at least. As I suggested at the time, if we had overloaded food, which had a lot of people on it, we would have forced them to either fake one of the jobs with just a few specialists on it, and make an easy target for us, or to have a bunch of wolves on food faking their work. That seems a better outcome than what we got. And frankly, if the three people on the mission couldn't make any difference than we just can't win the game. We need everybody who's a villager to at least try to win the camp. |
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04-30-2009, 12:12 PM | #982 |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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I hope it rubs you the wrong way. It doesn't really bother me in the slightest. I didn't sense any urgency for us 'not' to go on the mission when I checked in and saw what I saw.
You'll clearly see it a different way.
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04-30-2009, 12:15 PM | #983 | |
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Quote:
For those interested, the number of Pass posts between Abe's and mine: 0. So I didn't see a darn thing you typed before I left for the day, Pass.
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04-30-2009, 12:15 PM | #984 |
FOFC Survivor
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Err, wait. That was for the mission. I thought that was the whole day. Let me go back again.
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04-30-2009, 12:15 PM | #985 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
It's a secret
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04-30-2009, 12:16 PM | #986 |
Coordinator
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04-30-2009, 12:16 PM | #987 |
FOFC Survivor
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Nevermind, Abe posted the camp stuff right before the mission post.
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04-30-2009, 12:16 PM | #988 |
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04-30-2009, 12:17 PM | #989 | |||||||||||||
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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I'll take that apology, Pass.
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04-30-2009, 12:18 PM | #990 |
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I think I've made myself clear enough and I'm going to back off for a while. I don't have any chief suspect, but I am looking at everybody who went to the mission, backed off or not.
Poli, who went on early and seemingly never came back to check in. Purdue who went early and then backed off, conceivably as the wolves got the right numbers Render who went on the mission when it was seeming clear (to me) that the numbers weren't going to work and didn't come back to back off. Jackal who went on the mission late and though saying he was willing to back off, and clearly aware of the problem, stayed on. TheNorm who joined the mission very late, really resisted coming off then backed off from the pressure. Claimed he was hoping to find a gun. I'm eager to hear other suspects but right now that's all I've got. |
04-30-2009, 12:20 PM | #991 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Quote:
You were definitely online after my posts. Not only that, one of the posts you just quoted has Danny suggesting that we not even bother with the camps, so that we all go on the mission. And you tell me you thought we had the camps covered? I'm sorry....that you're a liar! VOTE POLI |
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04-30-2009, 12:23 PM | #992 |
Hall Of Famer
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I will not be available this afternoon or early evening. Just letting you know now so if you were all "WHERE IS THE SEXY ABE?" you'll know.
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04-30-2009, 12:24 PM | #993 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
I pretty much agree with Autumn, as I did yesterday. |
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04-30-2009, 12:24 PM | #994 |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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Pass, you're really going to...nevermind. I'm done here.
YOU CLEARLY DID NOT POST AFTER THE CAMP/MISSION STUFF WENT UP.
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04-30-2009, 12:24 PM | #995 |
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Well, point well taken, barkeep. But one of our goals today is to find a Sympathizer.
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04-30-2009, 12:24 PM | #996 |
Coordinator
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Gosh a lot of posts went inbetween when I started reading this page and made this post. When I said I agree with Autumn I was talking about post 961.
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04-30-2009, 12:26 PM | #997 |
Head Coach
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Besides finding someone to oust, I'd like to see us get these jobs covered. We need one more person on Oratory, three on Treasury and 2 on organization, I believe (assuming Schmidty signs up there).
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04-30-2009, 12:26 PM | #998 |
FOFC Survivor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Wentzville, MO
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VOTE PASS
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04-30-2009, 12:27 PM | #999 |
FOFC Survivor
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Location: Wentzville, MO
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DON'T ORGANIZE
DO NOTHING
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04-30-2009, 12:28 PM | #1000 |
FOFC Survivor
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I guess I also didn't pass of the shotgun, and that I'm not the bodyguard, either.
I'm not white, and I guess I can't be bribed, either. Knock yourself out.
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