COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[flere-imsaho]

I mean, if that's the result, I'm going to take more shots, not less.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Thanks to Elon's "For Me" tab on Twitter, I'm seeing video after video of people claiming to have physical issues after getting the vaccine, most of them doing this shaking thing that looks really, really fake. Is this the latest attempt to con people into believing that vaccines are killing/debilitating thousands of people, or has this been a thing for some time? Or, against all evidence of what appears to be bad acting, is any of this actually real?

someone posted one of these as an earnest plea to convince people that the jab is poison... but it was so horribly done and likely faked that it has now become a meme with the same wording applied to scores of different dances, jumping motions, and whatnot (as a mockery of the initial anti-vax effort)

[molson]

I've lost track of how many shots I've had now. The booster timelines started to overlap at some point while people were timing things differently for travel etc. Are people just going to get them every 6 months or a year now?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by molson

Are people just going to get them every 6 months or a year now?

From the stats I've been seeing, most people seem to be giving up, and just skipped the last round.

[molson]

But what about those of us who love the shots and getting in a long guilt-free nap once in a while?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

someone posted one of these as an earnest plea to convince people that the jab is poison... but it was so horribly done and likely faked that it has now become a meme with the same wording applied to scores of different dances, jumping motions, and whatnot (as a mockery of the initial anti-vax effort)

There are a bunch of them and they are all so, so bad.

[JPhillips]

Apparently, you can make some videos open a GoFundMe and rake in some cash from the rubes.

[Ksyrup]

Well sure, they don't have a stolen election investigation to fund at the moment.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

From the stats I've been seeing, most people seem to be giving up, and just skipped the last round.

I've had my max dosages and feel GREAT!

Originally Posted by molson

But what about those of us who love the shots and getting in a long guilt-free nap once in a while?

Speaking of this. I got a HepA vacc today and did this very thing!

[Kodos]

I believe I've had 5 shots in all. Basically, every time I became eligible, I got the next one. Although I did delay a bit the last time to try to time it to be most effective when we went to Disney in October.

[RainMaker]

The people faking side effects reminds me of this classic.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Thanks to Elon's "For Me" tab on Twitter, I'm seeing video after video of people claiming to have physical issues after getting the vaccine, most of them doing this shaking thing that looks really, really fake. Is this the latest attempt to con people into believing that vaccines are killing/debilitating thousands of people, or has this been a thing for some time? Or, against all evidence of what appears to be bad acting, is any of this actually real?

One of the people that have been trying to push this is lady that claims she was vaccinated early on and has been doing this shaking shit for nearly 2 years.

I looked at her twitter account and a guy claiming to be her doctor backed her claims. I thought it was really strange a doctor would post on twitter about a patient's health so I decided to look into him.

Turns out it's this guy:

Pierre Kory - Wikipedia

He was one of the doctors that was really popular with the anti-vaxxers early on because he has claimed from the beginning that the vaccines are ineffective, has pushed ivermectin as a miracle cure, ect.

And this is what he's up to now:

In June 2022, Kory tweeted that the American Board of Internal Medicine had warned him that his board certification was in danger of being revoked for misinformation.[31] Effectively unable to practice within mainstream medicine, Kory launched his own COVID-19 "care center", charging US$1,650 for a personal meeting.

[Ksyrup]

Only the best people.

[Atocep]

We've reached rock bottom. The anti-vaxxers now believe Demar Hamlin died and it was an actor at the game this weekend.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Atocep

We've reached rock bottom. The anti-vaxxers now believe Demar Hamlin died and it was an actor at the game this weekend.

We need some kind of conspiracy theory Venn diagram for this. How big is the overlap with say the moon landing conspiracy theorists?

[Edward64]

One shot a year recommended except for those most vulnerable. We’re officially in the new normal, endemic, treat it like the flu phase.

Well just a FDA proposal right now and let’s give it another 4-6 weeks to make sure there’s no major mutation because of China opening up.

[Edward64]

In Australia now. In Thailand, it seemed like 100% locals wearing masks even when walking outside in fresh air. In Australia, almost complete opposite.

I met a white Australian that was a proud carrying (on phone apparently) of having a medical exception to vaccinations. He looked pretty healthy to me. Thinking he’s an Australian Trumper but we didn’t talk politics.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

We've reached rock bottom. The anti-vaxxers now believe Demar Hamlin died and it was an actor at the game this weekend.

It's so easy to believe too. All that snow and he's cloaked in darkness, can't see any distinguishing features.

[molson]

My state legislature wants to ban food with vaccines in it. Wait until they figure out how many vaccines livestock get.

There's a handful of stuff like that proposed every year, but every year I get less confident it will be fall away to the background when sanity is restored.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by molson

My state legislature wants to ban food with vaccines in it. Wait until they figure out how many vaccines livestock get.

The thing is, an honest attempt at food safety/livestock treatment bill would be great.

But that is, of course, not what this is about at all.

[sterlingice]

Yeah, like wiping out abuse of antibiotics in livestock would actually be healthier for all of us

But, again, not what this performative bs is about

SI

[Atocep]

In today's news, the covid vaccine apparently causes AIDS.

[Edward64]

Can’t say I disagree with the timing, just part of returning to (new) normal. I assume this means we’ve not detected any worrying outbreaks from China.

President Joe Biden plans to end two national emergency declarations over the COVID-19 pandemic on May 11, which will trigger a restructuring of the federal response to the deadly coronavirus and will end most federal support for COVID-19 vaccinations, testing, and hospital care.

Get your vaccines now …

Planning for the transition of COVID-19 vaccines from federal supplies to the commercial market is already underway. Both Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna have announced plans to dramatically hike the price of their COVID-19 vaccine doses by 400 percent for the commercial market—from roughly $26–$30 to $110–$130. Private insurance will cover the extra costs, while the uninsured may have to pay out of pocket. Additionally, with the federal emergencies ending, administration of the vaccines may also incur out-of-pocket costs, such as if insured people go out of network.

[Edward64]

Good news.

Study: No new COVID variants from China since zero-COVID policy lifted – POLITICO

Fears that China’s lifting of its zero-COVID policy could result in fresh coronavirus variants seem to have not (yet) materialized.

A study published in The Lancet on Wednesday found there had been no new COVID-19 variants in the country since it lifted its draconian policy last year, a move which triggered a surge in cases and deaths.

The analysis by researchers in China of more than 400 new cases in Beijing between November 14 and December 20 shows that more than 90 percent were of the Omicron subvariants BA.5.2 and BF.7.

Don’t trust what China reports but can’t fake airplane pee & poop

EU’s disease agency, the ECDC, confirmed that its own analysis — which included sequencing cases detected through airport arrivals in several European countries and wastewater analysis of airplanes arriving in Europe from China — found that BA.5.2 and BF.7 were dominant, although they cautioned that this wastewater data is “quite limited and are still being verified.”

While the authors of the Lancet study conducted their analysis in Beijing, they write that the results “could be considered a snapshot of China

[sterlingice]

Our current wave is starting to subside and it was the weakest since the start of the pandemic. Well, it was weakest with regards to case positivity rate (again, case numbers have always been hot garbage since we can't test everyone) and hospitalizations. The wastewater levels in December were really high but I wonder if it was fewer people with higher levels of virus

Covid-19 Positivity Rate Across TMC Hospital Systems - Texas Medical Center

SI

[QuikSand]

Yup. Seems like consensus that COVID is over. After all, we are down to a death rate of (quick math)... as many Americans dying every 7 or 8 days as the number who died on 9/11, the greatest national tragedy of our memory.

I know, most of the perished were over 50, clinically overweight, or had rare, dreadful diseases like high blood pressure... so they mostly don't count as actual deaths. None of them could have lived a life worth anything to us anyhow.

Fun times.

[QuikSand]

I realize that's over the top, I'm just... so torn about this. Knowing some people with serious long covid symptoms has just made me permanently pissed off about it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Yup. Seems like consensus that COVID is over. After all, we are down to a death rate of (quick math)... as many Americans dying every 7 or 8 days as the number who died on 9/11, the greatest national tragedy of our memory.

I know, most of the perished were over 50, clinically overweight, or had rare, dreadful diseases like high blood pressure... so they mostly don't count as actual deaths. None of them could have lived a life worth anything to us anyhow.

Fun times.

It's crazy to back to the beginning of pandemic and think "this is where we ended up".

The politicians on the right that turned this into something political, quite literally, have hundreds of thousands of deaths on their hands.

We're still wearing masks at the hospital I work at although it sounds like that will be lifted in the early spring except in patient areas. I'm guessing masks in patient areas will be a permanent change from this.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I realize that's over the top, I'm just... so torn about this. Knowing some people with serious long covid symptoms has just made me permanently pissed off about it.

I don't know if there's a reliable way to determine the "second hand smoke" equivalent here, but I'm pretty well satisfied that the vast majority of these people have no one to blame but themselves at this point. It's pretty clear we don't want to live in a nation where we're "forced" by the government to do things that are good for us. So this is what you get.

[thealmighty]

Went to see Springsteen in Dallas last night and Little Steven and Soozie Tyrell were missing due to covid.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't know if there's a reliable way to determine the "second hand smoke" equivalent here, but I'm pretty well satisfied that the vast majority of these people have no one to blame but themselves at this point. It's pretty clear we don't want to live in a nation where we're "forced" by the government to do things that are good for us. So this is what you get.

I wouldn’t go that far. I think many that got long covid got them prior to vaccinations, or got them because of delta-to-omnicron-to-whatever mutations that rendered the then vaccine not as effective (e.g. don’t think efficacy is now that orig 90%). To your point, don’t know the % but I’d assume not a small minority.

But yeah, if someone got long covid because they did not get vaccinated because they willfully ignored it, I’m not losing any sleep over it.

[Edward64]

Moderna is keeping shots free in the US after the bad publicity.

I’m actually more concerned about treatment costs if you end up in ER or hospital stay. No one I know went to the hospital. I know treatment was free or heavily subsidized by insurance back when. It would be good for that to continue.

[flere-imsaho]

Shush you, that way lies Universal Health Care.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Moderna is keeping shots free in the US after the bad publicity.

I’m actually more concerned about treatment costs if you end up in ER or hospital stay. No one I know went to the hospital. I know treatment was free or heavily subsidized by insurance back when. It would be good for that to continue.

what bad publicity

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

what bad publicity

You can always count on Bernie.

I agree with Bernie on this one. I don’t know how much the US really subsidized all expenses (100% or 60% or ?) and they may have been able to profit more using those resources selling other stuff (e.g. the opportunity cost).

But Moderna is probably much ahead on the overall ‘balance sheet’ with all the good publicity, stock appreciation, acceptance of mRNA, leveraging lessons learn from their development of the vaccine etc.

Go sic ‘em Bernie.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/15/mode...rice-hike.html

Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel will testify before the Senate health committee in March over the company’s price for its Covid-19 vaccine when the shots are sold on the private market.

Sen. Bernie Sanders, chairman of the health panel, confirmed in a statement on Wednesday that Bancel would appear at a hearing titled: “Taxpayers Paid Billions For It: So Why Would Moderna Consider Quadrupling the Price of the COVID Vaccine?”

Bancel will testify at 10 a.m. ET on March 22.

The Moderna CEO stirred controversy last month when he said the company could increase the price of the shots to $110 to $130 a dose, significantly higher than the $26 the U.S. government pays for the omicron boosters. Sanders sent a letter to the CEO calling the proposed price hike “outrageous.”

Moderna, in a statement Wednesday, said it will provide the vaccines to the uninsured at no cost through a patient assistance program.

“For uninsured or underinsured people, Moderna’s patient assistance program will provide COVID-19 vaccines at no cost,” the company said.

Sanders, in a letter to Bancel last month, slammed the proposed price hike as “outrageous” because the vaccine was developed in cooperation with the National Institutes of Health using taxpayer money.

[albionmoonlight]

New Idaho Bill Would Criminalize Anyone Administering Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines

One of the most exhausting things about modern conservatism is that it cannot accept winning.

MAGA won the COVID wars. The state of emergency is ending. Vaccines aren't required. Masks aren't required. Everything is open.

If people don't want to mask and vax, then they don't have to. They won.

But MAGA is fueled by perceived grievance. So it isn't enough that everyone is getting to do what they want. They have to try to make it a crime for people who don't agree with them to have the freedom to make a personal choice with which they disagree.

I. Am. So. Tired.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

It's crazy to back to the beginning of pandemic and think "this is where we ended up".

The politicians on the right that turned this into something political, quite literally, have hundreds of thousands of deaths on their hands.

Is it that crazy though? American society values convenience over indirect or diffuse health threats.

Originally Posted by https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=3268502&postcount=940

I'm good with a short term ban if I had any confidence there was a long term solution, but I don't even think there is a good plan in place let alone a solution.

It seems like we're going to voluntarily go into a recession, shut down schools for 14-30 days etc, and my question is what happens when that initial period is over & Coronavirus is clearly still not contained, but also a very low mortality threat to anyone under 50? (Especially if our President & leadership is still focused on hiding cases instead of fixing it.)

I've got plenty of bad takes and Trump/Republicans made it worse than I figured but that much always seemed obvious to me. The loud voices who refused to put a mask on for 15 minutes in the grocery store or on public transportation were always assholes and we never wanted to have the societal conversation about what we considered acceptable deaths but the silent majority also voted with their actions and showed they had a higher risk tolerance for themselves, their social circles, and especially society as a whole than people want to admit. If this thread has just become a place to vent that's cool, sometimes we all need that, but if the goal is to do better now and long term it seems the most pertinent thing is figuring out how to convince people it's a serious enough threat they should individually choose more risk-averse behaviors. And unfortunately any top down solution will only be perceived paternalistically so organically just keeping the information about long covid out there in front of people seems to be the best solution. It's a bad one, but like my grandma always said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him wear a condom to reduce the risk of disease transmission if he tries to fuck it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Is it that crazy though? American society values convenience over indirect or diffuse health threats.
I've got plenty of bad takes and Trump/Republicans made it worse than I figured but that much always seemed obvious to me. The loud voices who refused to put a mask on for 15 minutes in the grocery store or on public transportation were always assholes and we never wanted to have the societal conversation about what we considered acceptable deaths but the silent majority also voted with their actions and showed they had a higher risk tolerance for themselves, their social circles, and especially society as a whole than people want to admit. If this thread has just become a place to vent that's cool, sometimes we all need that, but if the goal is to do better now and long term it seems the most pertinent thing is figuring out how to convince people it's a serious enough threat they should individually choose more risk-averse behaviors. And unfortunately any top down solution will only be perceived paternalistically so organically just keeping the information about long covid out there in front of people seems to be the best solution. It's a bad one, but like my grandma always said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him wear a condom to reduce the risk of disease transmission if he tries to fuck it.

Based on where we were when the pandemic started? Yes, it's a surprise. When we didn't have a ton of information on COVID and it hadn't been politicized yet there wasn't a great deal of divide yet on how to handle or approach it. It didn't become political until a couple of months in when right wing media and politicians found a culture war to fight with the left.

Early on the lockdowns were popular enough that there wasn't a lot of pushback. It wasn't until the 2nd half of 2020 that clear lines were being drawn politically on how we should handle COVID. The right (such as Desantis) is trying to rewrite history and claim they were always against lockdowns, vaccines, ect but the facts say otherwise.

I guess my summary would be: based on March/April 2020 to now? Yes, surprise. From the 2nd half of 2020 to now? Not much of a surprise.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

New Idaho Bill Would Criminalize Anyone Administering Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines

One of the most exhausting things about modern conservatism is that it cannot accept winning.

MAGA won the COVID wars. The state of emergency is ending. Vaccines aren't required. Masks aren't required. Everything is open.

If people don't want to mask and vax, then they don't have to. They won.

But MAGA is fueled by perceived grievance. So it isn't enough that everyone is getting to do what they want. They have to try to make it a crime for people who don't agree with them to have the freedom to make a personal choice with which they disagree.

I. Am. So. Tired.

Idaho is kind of an under the radar crazy state.

Greater Idaho movement: Idaho House of Representatives passes bill to discuss border relocation

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

New Idaho Bill Would Criminalize Anyone Administering Covid-19 mRNA Vaccines

One of the most exhausting things about modern conservatism is that it cannot accept winning.

MAGA won the COVID wars. The state of emergency is ending. Vaccines aren't required. Masks aren't required. Everything is open.

If people don't want to mask and vax, then they don't have to. They won.

But MAGA is fueled by perceived grievance. So it isn't enough that everyone is getting to do what they want. They have to try to make it a crime for people who don't agree with them to have the freedom to make a personal choice with which they disagree.

I. Am. So. Tired.

They are setting the ground rules for the next time. Next time, there won't even be the 2-3 month grace period where most everyone accepted a shutdown, schools closing, masks, etc. They've rewritten all of the Covid timeline as if they were right from March 10, 2020 until now. And that's where we will start if we ever go through something like this again.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Based on where we were when the pandemic started? Yes, it's a surprise. When we didn't have a ton of information on COVID and it hadn't been politicized yet there wasn't a great deal of divide yet on how to handle or approach it. It didn't become political until a couple of months in when right wing media and politicians found a culture war to fight with the left.

Early on the lockdowns were popular enough that there wasn't a lot of pushback. It wasn't until the 2nd half of 2020 that clear lines were being drawn politically on how we should handle COVID. The right (such as Desantis) is trying to rewrite history and claim they were always against lockdowns, vaccines, ect but the facts say otherwise.

I guess my summary would be: based on March/April 2020 to now? Yes, surprise. From the 2nd half of 2020 to now? Not much of a surprise.

People as a general whole were never going to accept long term lockdowns absent a clear and immediate threat once the economic costs and (probably more importantly) inconvenience of them became apparent.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Idaho is kind of an under the radar crazy state.

Greater Idaho movement: Idaho House of Representatives passes bill to discuss border relocation

When I sit in traffic I draft an essay about being a liberal knee-deep in Idaho state government. The wackiness, the horrors, how both sides kind of hate you, but also how public service really really feels like service.

Mostly, I know that the very most important thing is to recruit the next generation of young, diverse, liberal, educated, intelligent public servants all over, and, how neither side wants that. The right wants to stay in power, the left is discouraging young liberals from joining these systems. Or even moving to or staying in red states. I don't argue about politics much in real life but there has been tension in my friend group about (those of us that work there) staying in Idaho government. But to me its more important than ever to do both of those things.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

It's a bad one, but like my grandma always said you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him wear a condom to reduce the risk of disease transmission if he tries to fuck it.

Your grandma sounds like an interesting lady

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But MAGA is fueled by perceived grievance. So it isn't enough that everyone is getting to do what they want.

I'd like to see every person responsible for the lockdown era convicted of crimes against humanity and summarily executed. (and yes, I'm aware of the vacuum that'd create in both political parties) AFAIC there is really no vengeance adequate for the devastation & misery they wrought.

The war was won, but at tremendous and unforgivable cost. And the heaviest price possible should be exacted so that it can never happen again.

Fauci & his eager minions are no less deserving of the closest thing to appropriate punishment -- using Nuremberg as a starting model -- that can be devised.

[Edward64]

Interesting read on how Covid impacted kids, not only in loss of learning opportunities (which impacted those already struggling disproportionately more) but also mental health.

How has COVID-19 affected children’s education and mental health? - Vox

My kids were already in college but article didn't talk about impact to college level. Beats me on what the right solution(s) are and the weighing of cost-benefit.

It seems kids of every decade (except 90s?) have some sort of albatross hanging over them that they need to overcome.

[Atocep]

After 2 years our hospital is closing its drive though testing tent next month.

[flere-imsaho]

Running under an assumption that the pre-vaccine mortality rate for COVID peaked at 14% and maybe averaged 5% (stats), that's anywhere from a 1 in 7 to 1 in 20 chance of dying from this epidemic.

Apparently it was not enough to get society to broadly stick with mitigation measures.

Anticipating that there will be another pandemic in the future, what mortality rate do you think we'd need to see before people would fall in line, based on this experience?

[QuikSand]

That study on mortality rates is so deeply caveated and wordsmithed, it's bordering on outright disinformation, as a non-expert.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the chance of dying, for a given person getting covid, is 5-14%. There's a massive under-reporting of cases that is buoying that number into hysterical-sounding territory, which the authors fully acceded right away.

I don't know what the accurate answer is to that far more intuitive question is... but it's definitely not 5% or more, even among the USA unvaccinated... right?

[flere-imsaho]

Well, throw out that assumption, then, as it's rather tangential. I guess where my head was at is that COVID convinced me that it would take a truly existential threat for society, as currently constructed, to actually respond meaningfully and correctly en masse, and I wonder exactly what the nature of that threat would need to be (e.g. a pandemic with a 50% mortality rate?).

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Well, throw out that assumption, then, as it's rather tangential. I guess where my head was at is that COVID convinced me that it would take a truly existential threat for society, as currently constructed, to actually respond meaningfully and correctly en masse, and I wonder exactly what the nature of that threat would need to be (e.g. a pandemic with a 50% mortality rate?).

I think 25-50% (after what I saw with people's reaction to covid) AND it'll be dependent on the media coverage of it to some extent. If it looks like Black summer than it'll move people ( people attacking people for their brains)... otherwise it might not be enough to move the zombies (and I don't mean the zombies).