WW LXVII -- The Return of Divination Nation! (GAME OVER STUDENTS WIN!!!)

[st.cronin]

Even though Lathum turned up villager, that wasn't a bad lynch. We got lots of data to work with. If we lynch nfg today, we'll be a lot closer to knowing which scans to trust and which to disregard.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Heiney: I think BK coming out with that nreveal does nothing but draw unwanted attention to him if he IS a wolf. And while I can see your PoV, I just think it'd be a poor move on BK's part to come out so early with something like that. Its not a smart play. And if I know anything about BK's play its that he's a smart cookie.

So yes its something to consider, but the timing, the reveal itself etc etc makes me think he's on the up and up on this one.

Yeah I get that, but really, eventually, he was going to have to answer for the improbable string of student scans on him anyhow, wolf or student-wise. Ya know?

I agree with the overall point though, I'm not out "to get" BK at this point. I'm not looking to vote or dig into him at all today, or likely even tomorrow. Just making my point, for future reference.

[RendeR]

Ok, I gotta run, 2 munchkins to take care of and all that. Need to get the house straightened up too.

back in a few hours.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Even though Lathum turned up villager, that wasn't a bad lynch. We got lots of data to work with. If we lynch nfg today, we'll be a lot closer to knowing which scans to trust and which to disregard.

Personally, I think it will take a lot more than just that. I mean we basically have to throw away n0, in my mind. Right now we have 7 previous scans which we know the accuracy of. If nfg lynches today, we go to 13. Still not that much.

I think it's going to be Day 5 or 6, at the pace of adding ~5-6 useful scan-bits to the tally that we really start knowing who knows what.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Even though Lathum turned up villager, that wasn't a bad lynch. We got lots of data to work with. If we lynch nfg today, we'll be a lot closer to knowing which scans to trust and which to disregard.

But again this could be at the expense of another student. Which I guess is fine to someone who is a wolf...starting the game killing 6 straight students.

How many times do I have to say this...the data is not perfect. First you have the uncertainty of the scan...and then you have the uncertainty if the person is telling the truth or not. You are really starting to come off as shady to me, you are too trusting of everything which is starting to make me think you know who is one each side.

[oliegirl]

I scanned DC last night, and she came up a villager.

VOTE NFG

Gut instinct vote. Something isn't right with all his statements, he's talking out of both sides of his mouth...first says "I had a feeling this would happen" and then when asked how, he says "I never said I predicted anything..." Everything he's said just seems to skirt that line. Barring something crazy happening, I won't be moving my vote.

Again, I'm in training from 11 - 4:30, so I'll be online but in and out of the discussion as I can. Stupid rambling people asking inane questions that have been asked 15 times before does help and give me more time to "multi-task"

[nfg22]

Cronin, I know I wont change your mind because it seems little reason comes forth when you choose, but Cheif Rum has the most scans, and quite a few have also come up wolf. So if you are doing it on data, as you alluded to in your post, then he is the best option, he even admitted himself.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Frankly, I think you should have just told people not to scan you, if your statement is true. I mean you really have nothing to lose as a good guy, it's not like a scan would occur that would prove you as a liar and it's not like the wolves aren't full-well-clear that you're a student. Heck, the wolves would probably even keep someone around who always scans villager like that.

See here's what I thought would happen if I told people not to scan me:
1. A whole bunch of people would want to scan me even more
2. When they came back as a villager, they'd be more likely to jump to the conclusion that I was bad because they were already suspicious of me
3. I'd spend a lot of day 2 fending off votes, and possibly even getting lynched
4. If I did get lynched when my role was revealed people would have realized that it was basically a wasted day

I felt that I was just asking to get lynched if I told people not to scan me. But perhaps you're right...

[nfg22]

Im pretty much done, I wont be on too much today, maybe two more times. Yet I am choosing between Cronin and CR. For now I will choose cronin, he seems fishy, but if a run goes toward CR then I will jump on because it gives us alot more benefit then killing me.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

I scanned DC last night, and she came up a villager.

VOTE NFG

Gut instinct vote. Something isn't right with all his statements, he's talking out of both sides of his mouth...first says "I had a feeling this would happen" and then when asked how, he says "I never said I predicted anything..." Everything he's said just seems to skirt that line. Barring something crazy happening, I won't be moving my vote.

Again, I'm in training from 11 - 4:30, so I'll be online but in and out of the discussion as I can. Stupid rambling people asking inane questions that have been asked 15 times before does help and give me more time to "multi-task"

Hey Olie, I think that was Mau who said those two statements, not nfg, though I'm in agreeance on nfg for the most part

[Barkeep49]

I also think JH is right that solely based on my reveal I shouldn't be in any sort of COT.

[nfg22]

Vote St.Cronin

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by bsak16

But again this could be at the expense of another student. Which I guess is fine to someone who is a wolf...starting the game killing 6 straight students.

How many times do I have to say this...the data is not perfect. First you have the uncertainty of the scan...and then you have the uncertainty if the person is telling the truth or not. You are really starting to come off as shady to me, you are too trusting of everything which is starting to make me think you know who is one each side.

Do you want to disregard scans entirely?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Cronin, I know I wont change your mind because it seems little reason comes forth when you choose, but Cheif Rum has the most scans, and quite a few have also come up wolf. So if you are doing it on data, as you alluded to in your post, then he is the best option, he even admitted himself.

?

You've been scanned 6 times (with 3 wolf hits) to CR's 4 (with 1 wolf hit).


Wow.
WOW.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

See here's what I thought would happen if I told people not to scan me:
1. A whole bunch of people would want to scan me even more
2. When they came back as a villager, they'd be more likely to jump to the conclusion that I was bad because they were already suspicious of me
3. I'd spend a lot of day 2 fending off votes, and possibly even getting lynched
4. If I did get lynched when my role was revealed people would have realized that it was basically a wasted day

I felt that I was just asking to get lynched if I told people not to scan me. But perhaps you're right...

No, I get what you're saying. It's really easy for me, as someone not in your shoes to say shoulda-woulda-coulda with your role. I get why you didn't, totally.

Saw your other post on the COT thing, cool.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Cronin, I know I wont change your mind because it seems little reason comes forth when you choose, but Cheif Rum has the most scans, and quite a few have also come up wolf. So if you are doing it on data, as you alluded to in your post, then he is the best option, he even admitted himself.

I don't think this is true - I think you and Barkeep have the most scans.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Do you want to disregard scans entirely?

Right now I think they are pretty worthless. I don't trust anyone's...including my own. The only ones I put semi-credence in are the one of the people who I know were good and got killed.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by nfg22

For now I will choose cronin, he seems fishy, but if a run goes toward CR then I will jump on because it gives us alot more benefit then killing me.

This is the last straw for me, time to s**t or get off the pot on this guy

Vote nfg22

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Hey Olie, I think that was Mau who said those two statements, not nfg, though I'm in agreeance on nfg for the most part

Was it? My bad...caffeine hasn't sunk in this morning. My reasoning still stands though...I can find another example of it that actually pertains to nfg if anyone wants me too...

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I don't think this is true - I think you and Barkeep have the most scans.

Yes, nfg has been factually inaccurate again. I just voted for him and frankly I have no plan of moving my vote.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Was it? My bad...caffeine hasn't sunk in this morning. My reasoning still stands though...I can find another example of it that actually pertains to nfg if anyone wants me too...

Yeah it was Re: His scan of Pass that gave us no info.

And no worries, there is literally a littany of things that are inconsistent that nfg has said, heck, I've found like 3 on this page of posts and voted for him. No worries on back-tracking Olie.

[nfg22]

See yall later...Im a villager. Thx.

[MikeVic]

I stuck with NFG yesterday so I'll do it again today.

VOTE NFG

[jeheinz72]

Looks like we just need scans from NTN and SnDvls for n2. I really can't see their scans making a huge difference for me today though. Even two wolf scans of CR would make CR and NFG have the same data.

[Pumpy Tudors]

VOTE NFG22

[Dr. Sak]

If NFG comes up a villager...just remember that Cronin was a key cog in condemning him...as he was with being already with lynching Lathum's. He was the one pushing to vote these two off because they had the most scans. He has faith in all of these scans which we know potentially have accuracy and truth issues. It is not big deal to Cronin if we lose another student because we have these "data" points.

This entire argument becomes moot if nfg comes up a wolf, but I think we should seriously consider anyone who is pushing for the lynching of people just for data points, when they in fact come up students. It is easy for the wolves to push this agenda because they keep pointing back to the information we will gain and the knowledge we will have because of these lynching. Meanwhile the students blindly agree with them without considering that we just lost another person on our team.

So now we have the wolves out there pushing their agenda, seers who have no idea of their skills, no bodyguard to protect any of us, and a joker left out there that could be possibly missing the entire day of action and reading everything wrong. So tell me how we are suppose to believe these scans again?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by bsak16

If NFG comes up a villager...just remember that Cronin was a key cog in condemning him...as he was with being already with lynching Lathum's. He was the one pushing to vote these two off because they had the most scans. He has faith in all of these scans which we know potentially have accuracy and truth issues. It is not big deal to Cronin if we lose another student because we have these "data" points.

This entire argument becomes moot if nfg comes up a wolf, but I think we should seriously consider anyone who is pushing for the lynching of people just for data points, when they in fact come up students. It is easy for the wolves to push this agenda because they keep pointing back to the information we will gain and the knowledge we will have because of these lynching. Meanwhile the students blindly agree with them without considering that we just lost another person on our team.

So now we have the wolves out there pushing their agenda, seers who have no idea of their skills, no bodyguard to protect any of us, and a joker left out there that could be possibly missing the entire day of action and reading everything wrong. So tell me how we are suppose to believe these scans again?

Given all of that bsak, given that I'm of the same thought-line of cronin on the scans, what do you suggest?

Who should my vote go to instead?

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Given all of that bsak, given that I'm of the same thought-line of cronin on the scans, what do you suggest?

Who should my vote go to instead?

I don't know who my vote will or who you should vote for...I am just throwing ideas out in case nfg does come back good. I believe we should start looking at voting patterns and possibly putting more faith in those than these crap shoot scans.

[SnDvls]

I scanned Chief and he came up student to me

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

To the point that I'm now so pissed off since I put in a scan for him.

I was predicting something like this would happen with one of the groups that I decided to switch it up last minute and it happened to me anyways. Sorry again, guys. Two nights in a row with no scan. ****!

Read my statement Ollie girl, I was predicting something would happen with one of the players in the groups that were scanning certain individuals, so I thought I'd stray away from that notion and go on my own. I don't know if it paid off or not considering my scan apparently went through and I scanned him as a villager, so that could be a good thing.

[st.cronin]

If nfg comes back good, then we recalculate accuracy rates, we look at tomorrow's scans, and we make our best guess. Same as if he comes back a wolf. Not sure what's unsound or unclear about this. Of course its better to lynch a wolf then a villager, so if you know who's a wolf, please point one out.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by bsak16

I don't know who my vote will or who you should vote for...I am just throwing ideas out in case nfg does come back good. I believe we should start looking at voting patterns and possibly putting more faith in those than these crap shoot scans.

Then what exactly are you saying? That it's cronin's fault if a bunch of us vote NFG and he's a student? Can't say that's very fair.

I mean we don't *know* anything. We take what we have and do the best we can.

If NFG is a student, then while I'll be upset we didn't get a wolf, I'm going to at least take some solice in the information we get. Plus, even discounting the scans on him, something is definitely trout-y about his tactics this game. It's past the point of it being worth finding out.

[SnDvls]

so 5 votes in a hour to NFG

[Barkeep49]

I just don't get the votes by first JH and now nfg for cronin. It just astounds me. I had been leaning towards CR because of the oddity of his play yesterday but that vote pushed me over the edge as it seems to have for others.

Vote nfg

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I just don't get the votes by first JH and now nfg for cronin. It just astounds me. I had been leaning towards CR because of the oddity of his play yesterday but that vote pushed me over the edge as it seems to have for others.

Vote nfg

You mean clap and not me, right? I voted for NFG.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Read my statement Ollie girl, I was predicting something would happen with one of the players in the groups that were scanning certain individuals, so I thought I'd stray away from that notion and go on my own. I don't know if it paid off or not considering my scan apparently went through and I scanned him as a villager, so that could be a good thing.

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you put in a conditional scan? I always give a second option just in case something funky goes down at the last minute. You not getting a good scan in 2 nights in a row doesn't look good - it's definitely pinging my radar, I just think we need to finish what we started yesterday and resolve the nfg question before we move forward.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

You mean clap and not me, right? I voted for NFG.

Yes I meant clap, not you.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you put in a conditional scan? I always give a second option just in case something funky goes down at the last minute. You not getting a good scan in 2 nights in a row doesn't look good - it's definitely pinging my radar, I just think we need to finish what we started yesterday and resolve the nfg question before we move forward.

I thought mau had put in a scan for Pass. I agree it looks bad his not having any scan two nights in a row, but there wouldn't have been anything conditional he could have done about scanning pass...

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you put in a conditional scan? I always give a second option just in case something funky goes down at the last minute. You not getting a good scan in 2 nights in a row doesn't look good - it's definitely pinging my radar, I just think we need to finish what we started yesterday and resolve the nfg question before we move forward.

I did not realize that you could have conditional scans. I'm still learning this game.

Regardless, you're attacking me for no reason except by twisting my own words into something you want to hear.

[MikeVic]

Maybe the wolves will be going after villagers that have little scans on them, so that we can't gain information when they die and are revealed to be villagers?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Maybe the wolves will be going after villagers that have little scans on them, so that we can't gain information when they die and are revealed to be villagers?

I think they have a larger plan at hand. Pass's death actually got us decent info, IMO.

[RendeR]

While I can't argue with the fact that nfg has painted himself into a bit of a corner here, I really dislike runaway votes.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I thought mau had put in a scan for Pass. I agree it looks bad his not having any scan two nights in a row, but there wouldn't have been anything conditional he could have done about scanning pass...

Which happens first? Wolf night actions or scans? I always submit a conditional order..."scan player x, if something happens to him - scan player y". I do that to avoid this kind of situation that Mauboy is in. Like I said, I'm not jumping on him today, but this has definitely put him on my list of people to watch carefully.

[st.cronin]

I am not sure why they went after Pass, either. I think he would have been a candidate for lynch today.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I did not realize that you could have conditional scans. I'm still learning this game.

Regardless, you're attacking me for no reason except by twisting my own words into something you want to hear.

Post #2 contains the following:

I'm planning on using a modified 24 hour clock for this game, with day deadlines at 9PM Eastern, and night actions due by 1Conditional night actions will be accepted at anytime.AM Eastern (four hours after deadline).

The bolding is mine, but it was made very clear in the ruleset that conditonal night actions were ok.

I don't think I'm twisting your words at all. You missed the scan night 1 and no one really questioned you on it. You missed it last night b/c you submitted a name that ended up getting lynched. I'm just asking why you didn't submit a conditional order.

If the scan happens first, you would have gotten a PM with your scan result, but you said:

Sorry again, guys. Two nights in a row with no scan. ****!

If the wolf night actions happen first, you would have gotten a scan result on your second candidate. Either way, you would have gotten a scan on a conditional order.

[Barkeep49]

I believe the scan happens before the kill. Didn't some people checkout GRF night 1? Or was that my imagination?

[nfg22]

Hmm..Well I can certainly say that I was wrong. I thought CR had more scans on him than I had on me. If I am the one with the most scans then I guess i am the best target. Seriously, my lying isnt really lying, it is my unwilingness to check what I say before I say it. I didnt feel like looking back to see who had more scans but I thought I had like six, and CR had a quite a few today and yesterday so I thought he would be ahead. If I am truly the scan leader then go ahead and lynch me. I still think Cronin is a wolf.

[nfg22]

The scan happens after the kill....

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by nfg22

The scan happens after the kill....

and you know this how?

Or are we just making things up again?

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Post #2 contains the following:



The bolding is mine, but it was made very clear in the ruleset that conditonal night actions were ok.

I don't think I'm twisting your words at all. You missed the scan night 1 and no one really questioned you on it. You missed it last night b/c you submitted a name that ended up getting lynched. I'm just asking why you didn't submit a conditional order.

If the scan happens first, you would have gotten a PM with your scan result, but you said:



If the wolf night actions happen first, you would have gotten a scan result on your second candidate. Either way, you would have gotten a scan on a conditional order.

I obviously missed out on my conditional vote, I'm sorry..

I was waiting until midnight for the results last night and as soon as I saw the results, I made my post knowing that I had scanned Pass and saw that he died, I was pissed I posted my post with the blanked out swear word and went to bed. I read my pm this morning from the GM and it said my scan for pass said he was a villager but he's now dead... like I've said, take it how you will but I don't know if it actually scanned for real though or if he just said that.

Anyhow, you're twisting my words, slightly with the whole "I predicted it would happen" when my prediction actually failed.