POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

like this life press conference today

I know you meant "live" but I thought the typo was hilarious given the situation.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Either I'm completely wrong, or those people making such bets are. I would put the chances of Biden resigning as Democratic nominee in the single digits.

On this we agree!

I see so many similarities between this situation and Trump/GOP. One, as I mentioned in a post in the last couple of days, I feel like the Dems are largely falling in lock-step behind the guy who asserts he is the party right now, just like the GOP and Trump. You see some party people dissenting and a couple of higher-ups throwing out quasi-critical statements as trial balloons, but nothing's happening without Biden taking that step. They are powerless to remove him.

And two, on that point, Biden has made so many statements that he's staying in and chiding "the elites" (sound familiar?) for trying to force him to step down that he's now doubling down on his position and acting defiant about it. He's made it such that it would be a total embarrassment to him to step aside, and people don't want to embarrass him as the final act of his political career.

The only way it happens is if he has a McConnell Moment on video to add to what we've already seen and is forced out by polling and/or a critical mass of party momentum - something where he can hide behind the excuse of a newly-discovered medical issue or whatever excuse they want to use.

[Jas_lov]

I actually think it's becoming more likely that he drops out. More Ds in congress will come out with calls to drop now that the NATO summit is over, especially if his press conference goes poorly tonight. Seems like he's losing big donors. Harris is being polled as a replacement. I've never thought Harris was a great national candidate but she can reconsolidate the Dem base and puts the age and fitness question back on Trump. The ABC poll out today had her up 49-46 vs Biden down 46-47.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And two, on that point, Biden has made so many statements that he's staying in and chiding "the elites" (sound familiar?) for trying to force him to step down that he's now doubling down on his position and acting defiant about it. He's made it such that it would be a total embarrassment to him to step aside, and people don't want to embarrass him as the final act of his political career.

You're certainly not wrong, but how trash is his legacy going to be if he's loudly defiant for 5 months and then loses? He has to thread the needle for those five months AND win the presidency (to say nothing about actually serving those 4 years as well) to come out of this with an untarnished legacy.

Of course, Biden's legacy shouldn't be anyone's primary concern in this case, but it is darkly fascinating to watch that window narrow in real time.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I see so many similarities between this situation and Trump/GOP. One, as I mentioned in a post in the last couple of days, I feel like the Dems are largely falling in lock-step behind the guy who asserts he is the party right now, just like the GOP and Trump. You see some party people dissenting and a couple of higher-ups throwing out quasi-critical statements as trial balloons, but nothing's happening without Biden taking that step. They are powerless to remove him.

And two, on that point, Biden has made so many statements that he's staying in and chiding "the elites" (sound familiar?) for trying to force him to step down that he's now doubling down on his position and acting defiant about it. He's made it such that it would be a total embarrassment to him to step aside, and people don't want to embarrass him as the final act of his political career.

The only way it happens is if he has a McConnell Moment on video to add to what we've already seen and is forced out by polling and/or a critical mass of party momentum - something where he can hide behind the excuse of a newly-discovered medical issue or whatever excuse they want to use.

It is striking to see the similarity between Biden and Trump in all this. Everything is fake news, including the polls. The elites (as if he isn't the most elite) are out to get him. Namecalling people who don't show him unconditional support. And an almost cult-like response from his most diehard supporters. Makes me wonder if this is just the new norm for politicians in trouble.

I don't think he'll drop out. He's way too big of a narcissist for that to happen. And his son likes the perks and his wife likes getting fancy magazine photoshoots. It would require a McConnell moment like you mentioned or worse.

[RainMaker]

AP got a hold of a memo and it sounds like the Biden campaign is going to concede Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia. Probably smart given the numbers for him, but means he has to win Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, and NE-2, to squeak out a win.

It also seems like Senators in tough races are desperately trying to distance themselves. Tester and Brown today more or less came out saying they want no part of Biden.

At this point it feels like the Presidency is lost and it's now just up to the Democrats whether they care about keeping the Senate or re-taking the House.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

You're certainly not wrong, but how trash is his legacy going to be if he's loudly defiant for 5 months and then loses? He has to thread the needle for those five months AND win the presidency (to say nothing about actually serving those 4 years as well) to come out of this with an untarnished legacy.

Of course, Biden's legacy shouldn't be anyone's primary concern in this case, but it is darkly fascinating to watch that window narrow in real time.

I'm sure the hindsight is going to be, Harris or anyone else you put up against Trump would have lost worst than me. Another one of those definitive statements that can't be proven (like Trump's, if I had been President, Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine comment)

[Lathum]

Biden is going to drag down the whole ticket. The GOP will have full control along with the courts and it will be game over.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

You're certainly not wrong, but how trash is his legacy going to be if he's loudly defiant for 5 months and then loses? He has to thread the needle for those five months AND win the presidency (to say nothing about actually serving those 4 years as well) to come out of this with an untarnished legacy.

Of course, Biden's legacy shouldn't be anyone's primary concern in this case, but it is darkly fascinating to watch that window narrow in real time.

How trash is it now? Spent 4 decades in the Senate and ended up being on the wrong side of almost every single major issue during that time. Has had a pretty crummy Presidency where it appears the last couple years were late Reagan where his dementia is hidden from the public.

Feels like if he continues down this path to hand Republicans and Trump full control over the government, he'll go down as one of the worst politicians in American history. Not Buchanan bad, but up there.

[Edward64]

Good luck, Joe.

Hoping for a first legit step in your comeback. Personally, I think the odds are against it but knock it out of the park.

Now, two weeks after Biden’s eye-opening debate performance, journalists from the nation’s biggest news outlets will finally get their chance to question the president directly when Biden takes questions Thursday evening during the NATO summit.

Expect fireworks.

Since the debate, the journalists tasked with covering the White House have been imploring the president’s communications team – who said the debate was just a “bad night” – to prove it, allowing him to take questions directly from the press.

[RainMaker]

A lot of people seem to think this means it's going to be JD Vance as the VP.


Just a moment...

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Good luck, Joe.

Hoping for a first legit step in your comeback. Personally, I think the odds are against it but knock it out of the park.

Here's the problem - if he knocks it out of the park, what does it matter if in a month or 7 weeks or 3 months he has a bad appearance or two? Then the same questions come back (assuming they ever go away), but we're that much closer to the election.

Biden staying in presumed he doesn't just knock his next appearance out of the park, but ALL of them until November. And that still leaves open the question, OK but what about 4 more frickin' years?!

[Edward64]

Assuming the 2 real choices are Trump and Joe … Joe can be managed (or at least better than Trump). I’ll take a senile Joe over a current Trump. Joe has better support team around him.

I’m hoping for another Democrat right now. I’ll even take Kamala as she has a better chance than Joe (unless Joe does well in all remaining public events, causing his Stockdale moment to fade away as one ‘bad night’).

[Edward64]

Nice Joe, very nice …

President Joe Biden in an embarrassing verbal stumble introduced Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy as “President Putin,” the leader of Russia.

Biden’s botched introduction of Zelenskyy came less than an hour before Biden was due to face reporters at his first news conference since his tongue-tied, sluggish debate against former President Donald Trump in late June.

[RainMaker]

Even though he's a horrible person, I still sort of feel bad for Biden. My Dad has dementia too and I can't imagine putting him in front of cameras like that and just being humiliated over and over. It tells you how rotten that whole family is for keeping him in the race. Just can't imagine doing that to a loved one.

[GrantDawg]

Nvm

[cartman]

To play the devil's advocate, that is the kind of verbal gaffe that he has always had issues with from stuttering, and he did correct it right after.

[HerRealName]

After watching the video, the mistake is less important than the realization that this reaction will follow every future mistake. The narrative is baked in. Trump can't be the focus of the election if Biden is still running.

[RainMaker]

He just called Kamala Vice President Trump. We're pretty close to him just calling himself President Trump.

[GrantDawg]

You know for a guy who has dementia, he has a better understanding of foreign policy than Trump has ever had.

[RainMaker]

He probably knows more with the dementia but his foreign policy has been worse. Like the one part of his brain that still works is the one that says kill as many brown folks as you can.

[Lathum]

I didn’t watch the press conference. I’m assuming Fox is saying he was worse than the debate and msnbc is saying he was sharp as a tack.

[Jas_lov]

It was somewhere in between. A couple gaffes but much better than the debate. Showed pretty good command of the foreign policy questions. He should have been doing more of these. If he's going to stay in then do townhalls where voters ask questions.

[Dutch]

Besides the creepy smiles, the random whispering, and the sudden outburst that seemingly came out of nowhere about guns, he was definitely better than the debate.

Calling Kamela “Vice President Trump” that went uncorrected was not a good look, naming off the countries in the South Pacific (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and Australia) was corrected when he stopped and said, “wait, I already said Australia”, although outside of Okinawa, I’m not sure 99% of Japan would be considered the South Pacific. But he did realize he said Australia twice, so that was good. Concluding the conference by telling Americans to listen to Donald Trump after the reporter asked if Biden was concerned that Trump had already called him on out on social media for calling the vice president, “Vice President Trump” was an odd retort.

Pandering to the Muslim NPR woman by saying Israel has been awful and it’s because they are most conservative war cabinet ever then back tracking and saying he supports Israel was confusing.

Saying he needs to get out more and be more active and then saying he needs to pace himself more and then blamed his staff for “adding stuff” to his calendar was also confusing.

So was his hardline of not speaking to Putin until Putin changed his ways (which I admired the strength in that statement) and then droning on for a bit and saying he would speak with anybody including Putin was also sending mixed signals.

And of course the numerous lost trains of thought that ended with “well anyways” was tough to watch.

But honestly, with the civilized conduct at the event, the comfort of answering questions from a preselected list of reporters, and not having an adversary like Donald Trump present made this a much better experience for him than the debate.

[Danny]

Biden is done, he will lose. Even if he does better the headlines are calling Kamala Trump etc... He will continue to have those sort of gaffes that continue to decline hos # of voters.

[RainMaker]

Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump ratify a historic peace accord pic.twitter.com/tTiVwi2WmI

— BuccoCapital Bloke (@buccocapital) July 12, 2024

[Danny]

Exactly. Thats what will trend. He is done done done

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Then we hardly have any common ground to base much conversation on I'm afraid.

It's always something we can dig deeper on; of course that requires both parties being willing to do that, but even people with wildly divergent views can have productive conversation if both are willing to engage with the facts.

In terms of enthusiastic Trump voters, one thing you hear a lot from them at least in terms of my interactions is wild exaggerations, both pro in favor of Trump and anti in criticism of Biden. Take inflation, where it'll be stated that the cost of living is twice what it was when Biden took office, or that the price of something specific has doubled, or whatever. They tend to kind of ... shut up when you demonstrate that no, that isn't actually the case. I'm not saying I expect them to be convinced to not vote Trump or anything, but you just have to start on engagement with the facts.

Another example in your case are things like - I don't know if this is still your stance, but you've posted in the past that you find the official numbers about how many people died from COVID to be absurd, even though they are demonstrably true. So at a certain level, when somebody makes claims about abuse/authoritarianism/whatever, they are either willing to back those up with facts, or they aren't. And if they're not, there's nothing to be done about the disconnect.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump ratify a historic peace accord pic.twitter.com/tTiVwi2WmI

— BuccoCapital Bloke (@buccocapital) July 12, 2024

Biden is on the record now as saying Trump is qualified to be president. So there is that. Common ground?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

It's always something we can dig deeper on; of course that requires both parties being willing to do that, but even people with wildly divergent views can have productive conversation if both are willing to engage with the facts.

In terms of enthusiastic Trump voters, one thing you hear a lot from them at least in terms of my interactions is wild exaggerations, both pro in favor of Trump and anti in criticism of Biden. Take inflation, where it'll be stated that the cost of living is twice what it was when Biden took office, or that the price of something specific has doubled, or whatever. They tend to kind of ... shut up when you demonstrate that no, that isn't actually the case. I'm not saying I expect them to be convinced to not vote Trump or anything, but you just have to start on engagement with the facts.

Another example in your case are things like - I don't know if this is still your stance, but you've posted in the past that you find the official numbers about how many people died from COVID to be absurd, even though they are demonstrably true. So at a certain level, when somebody makes claims about abuse/authoritarianism/whatever, they are either willing to back those up with facts, or they aren't. And if they're not, there's nothing to be done about the disconnect.

Its just impossible with some though. My wife has worked at a hospital for 10+ years, ive worked in the public school system for 15 years and a trump supporting family member with 0 experience in either somehow knows far more about both topics from watching fox news and reading the occasional conservative conspiracy theory article. Im sure this is not a unique case.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Another example in your case are things like - I don't know if this is still your stance, but you've posted in the past that you find the official numbers about how many people died from COVID to be absurd, even though they are demonstrably true.

Oh that's 100% absolutely still the case.

The amount of misreporting done to support the hysteria was absurd. Get your head cut off in a car crash, test positive later, you too can be a "covid death."

This was covered plenty of times in mainstream media, link just from the first example I came to

The most demonstrable thing coming from Covid was that trusting the health care profession to be factually or intellectually honest is a fool's errand. Is there such a thing as "accessory to crimes against humanity"? If so, there's an awful lot of them who should be charged for aiding & abetting that modern day Mengele known as Fauci.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's funny, I don't care who you like.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Besides the creepy smiles, the random whispering, and the sudden outburst that seemingly came out of nowhere about guns, he was definitely better than the debate.

Calling Kamela “Vice President Trump” that went uncorrected was not a good look, naming off the countries in the South Pacific (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and Australia) was corrected when he stopped and said, “wait, I already said Australia”, although outside of Okinawa, I’m not sure 99% of Japan would be considered the South Pacific. But he did realize he said Australia twice, so that was good. Concluding the conference by telling Americans to listen to Donald Trump after the reporter asked if Biden was concerned that Trump had already called him on out on social media for calling the vice president, “Vice President Trump” was an odd retort.

Pandering to the Muslim NPR woman by saying Israel has been awful and it’s because they are most conservative war cabinet ever then back tracking and saying he supports Israel was confusing.

Saying he needs to get out more and be more active and then saying he needs to pace himself more and then blamed his staff for “adding stuff” to his calendar was also confusing.

So was his hardline of not speaking to Putin until Putin changed his ways (which I admired the strength in that statement) and then droning on for a bit and saying he would speak with anybody including Putin was also sending mixed signals.

And of course the numerous lost trains of thought that ended with “well anyways” was tough to watch.

But honestly, with the civilized conduct at the event, the comfort of answering questions from a preselected list of reporters, and not having an adversary like Donald Trump present made this a much better experience for him than the debate.

That is a pretty solid summary. I do think the "well, anyways" thing was my biggest concern. Not only did it get a little annoying, it was obviously a tick to cover for times he either got off track or lost the train of thought and had to refocus.

[Ksyrup]

Yes, this board is truly on the Trump Train, how observant of you.

Anyone got the authority to remove this, uh, character?

[Ksyrup]

Rammstein fan?

[GrantDawg]

Cool. It has been a long time since we had someone go full on nuts on the board.

[Lathum]

This is sad and pathetic behavior. especially from someone who has been supported by a lot of board members for 2 decades.

Be better.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Anyone got the authority to remove this, uh, character?

[Lathum]

Thanks Ben. What a child.

[Kodos]

They're gonna take away your Heisman, Matt.

[Passacaglia]

Unfair to those of us who missed the drama by mere minutes.

[GrantDawg]

Didn't miss much, Pass. He just kept telling people they were banned and claimed the whole board was Trump supporters.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Kodos

They're gonna take away your Heisman, Matt.

So....I also banned that account from 2008ish that showed up at started trolling. Was that also MJ4H? I'm saying it's possible that it was other guy who went nuts this morning, though of course it's possible that they're the same guy.

[Kodos]

Just a guess on my part.

[Kodos]

Is it safe to say that you won't accept a banning?

[Kodos]

Great. Now I'll have more time to travel the country attending Trump rallies.

[Racer]

So I rarely post here and mainly just lurk but I just want to say I enjoy the funny comments people come up with for this guy. I am not so quick witted.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Cantstopmatt

I'll make a deal with you, after I take over you can be my jester. You are pre banned if you decline.

Oh no.--You're not going to take away my banning!

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh that's 100% absolutely still the case.

The amount of misreporting done to support the hysteria was absurd. Get your head cut off in a car crash, test positive later, you too can be a "covid death."

This was covered plenty of times in mainstream media, link just from the first example I came to

Actually there have been a number of studies concluding that overall the numbers were undercounted. Such as here: New Analysis Reveals Many Excess Deaths Attributed to Natural Causes Are Actually Uncounted COVID-19 Deaths | SPH.

The number of official COVID deaths is substantially lower than the excess deaths (number of deaths above the typical amount before and after the pandemic), and some of that amount is traceable directly to COVID. So no, this absolutely is not a case of over-reporting hysteria.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The most demonstrable thing coming from Covid was that trusting the health care profession to be factually or intellectually honest is a fool's errand. Is there such a thing as "accessory to crimes against humanity"? If so, there's an awful lot of them who should be charged for aiding & abetting that modern day Mengele known as Fauci.

See, this is a case of just taking a reasonable objection and running absolutely out of bounds with it. Fauci wasn't perfect at all, but calling him Mengele or saying health officials were in general dishonest is just ludicrous. There's just no justification for making such comments about an entire profession; people are individuals and stereotyping an entire group like that is neither accurate or helpful.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Assuming the 2 real choices are Trump and Joe … Joe can be managed (or at least better than Trump). I’ll take a senile Joe over a current Trump. Joe has better support team around him.

Okay, hard to believe but if true, crisis averted. Let a going senile Joe run (with a good supporting cast

The race for the presidency remains statistically tied despite President Biden’s dismal debate performance two weeks ago, a new national NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll finds.

Biden actually gained a point since last month’s survey, which was taken before the debate. In this poll, he leads Trump 50% to 48% in a head-to-head matchup. But Biden slips when third-party options are introduced, with Trump holding the slightest advantage with 43% to 42%.