WW CXXVI: Wolves in Asgard - Game Over (Result in Post 2538)

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

No time to analyse now.

Thor's Hammer turning out to be an illusion makes me suspicious of Hoops or Telle I must say. I'm sure it makes them suspicious of me as well. Presuming no-one else comes out and says that they have had Thor's Hammer (which is absolutely in the game, according to the rules) then it seems the wolves have taken it and created an illusion of it to create the chain. From what I can tell:
Telle -> Narcizo -> Hoops -> Chubby

I received it last night and then passed it to Chubby. So I was the one who passed what turned out to be a fake hammer to Chubby.

[jeheinz72]

Wait, so hoops and Racer both passed what they thought was Thor's hammer, to Chubby, and Chubby got the fake one?

[Racer]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Wait, so hoops and Racer both passed what they thought was Thor's hammer, to Chubby, and Chubby got the fake one?

I got mine at the end of the day. Then passed it a bit later. Then a couple minutes later Chubby came out and said he had the hammer and it turned to dust. I assume he got mine.

[jeheinz72]

Can you be more specific as to "end of the day" and "a bit later"

I'm also then curious on the timing of hoops passing his hammer

[Narcizo]

I believe item moving occurs after the lynch but before the night kill - and if two items and handed over to one person that person receives one of them at random and the other is dished out at random. Which means that someone should have the hammer.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Racer

I received it last night and then passed it to Chubby. So I was the one who passed what turned out to be a fake hammer to Chubby.

THis is confusing? Did you pass it a second time in one night?

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Can you be more specific as to "end of the day" and "a bit later"

Yeah - my understanding is that you get the item at the start of the day.

[Narcizo]

It's not certain that yours was the fake but this makes me feel a bit better about Telle.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

often I'll be around so I'm just throwing out a vote. I have no idea who's going to be garnering votes today, and i don't have time to look up vote histories, so I'm just going back to Barkeep who I still have a strong feeling is a wolf. With any luck I'll have a chance to move my vote around before deadline.

vote barkeep49

I just find it hard to believe that you would think voting Barkeep makes sense at this stage. Are you Chubby? This just seems like you're keeping your options open to move your vote to potentially save a wolf buddy later in the day. But I can't imagine you thinking that voting Barkeep makes sense if you're a wolf either. I just can't make head or tails of this.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Telle - a few questions if you don't mind. Were you informed that you had the Hammer in your initial PM? And why did you vote Danny on day one?

Yes, I was informed that I had the Hammer in my initial PM. As for Danny.. it was time to consolidate. As I recall the votes were REALLY spread out. Out of the available people who already had at least one vote, he was the most appealing since he ticked me off going on and on about how horrible my Autumn vote was.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by JAG

You congratulate each other on your successful killing of another one of Loki's agents. However, in all the excitement, you have lost track of J23. You find him 30 minutes later, slain with a dagger protruding from his shoulder blades. You note that he is a young man and a powerful looking warrior.

J23 was Magni

Day 4 now begins

Originally Posted by Racer

Chubby, would you like an item? Otherwise, I'll have to think more on who to pass it to.

Originally Posted by Chubby

perhaps, is it listed in the rules?

Originally Posted by Racer

Yes.

Originally Posted by Chubby

with J23's death I'll state the obvious.

I am Thor.

Originally Posted by Chubby

yes I got my Hammer, or what appeared to be my Hammer. It turned to dust as soon as I got it which makes me think it was an illusion of Loki's.

Hence why I am very interested in the "non-listed" item that hoops now has.

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Can you be more specific as to "end of the day" and "a bit later"

I'm also then curious on the timing of hoops passing his hammer

I received a pm at 10:29 pm last night that I had received Thor's hammer. Hence why I then I asked if he wanted my item (knowing he was either Thor or Modi). I was debating it until Chubby came out at 10:58 pm proclaiming to be Thor. Looking back at my sent PMs, I sent an action to JAG at 11:01 pm to send Thor's Hammer to Chubby. At 11:02 pm, Chubby said he had Thor's hammer. Until this morning, I didn't realize he had said it turned to dust. I still thought it was the hammer that I sent him. However, now that I've written this, it seems unlikely given the time frame. JAG would have had to PM Chubby and Chubby would have had to come out and say he had the hammer in a time frame of 1 to 2 minutes.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I understand that. My point was about why Telle might have revealed having the hammer, or a fake hammer, on day one, when no one knew who Thor was.

I didn't reveal that on Day 1. I revealed on Day 2 that I had had the hammer on Day 1, and that I let it go random. Other people were revealing items they had and what they did with them, so I thought it was prudent to be open about my dealings with an item.

[Narcizo]

Racer I think you probably still have the Hammer. I think it was handed to you at the start of today and you've asked for it to be handed to Chubby tonight. Ask JAG if you still have the Hammer in your possession.

Which means that "our" Hammer is the fake.

I think. Although it's making my head hurt.

[Narcizo]

Anyway, this makes me think that the game probably started with the fake hammer. To add confusion.

[Narcizo]

Oh I forgot

Vote Monday, Day Five

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Wait, so hoops and Racer both passed what they thought was Thor's hammer, to Chubby, and Chubby got the fake one?

Originally Posted by Racer

I got mine at the end of the day. Then passed it a bit later. Then a couple minutes later Chubby came out and said he had the hammer and it turned to dust. I assume he got mine.

Catching up, but I got my notification on the hammer within 30 minutes of the deadline, just as I did for all of the other items I have received so far this game.

[Barkeep49]

As long as we're in a day cycle over the weekend as I hate being in a night cycle where there can be basically no weekend activity

Vote Monday

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Racer I think you probably still have the Hammer. I think it was handed to you at the start of today and you've asked for it to be handed to Chubby tonight. Ask JAG if you still have the Hammer in your possession.

Which means that "our" Hammer is the fake.

I think. Although it's making my head hurt.

Agree with this, after tracking down the posts Racer referenced.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Catching up, but I got my notification on the hammer within 30 minutes of the deadline, just as I did for all of the other items I have received so far this game.

You mean 30 minutes after deadline right?

So you got yours Wednesday night, and passed it to Chubby, passing which happened last night?

[jeheinz72]

Which would then mean Racer has the real hammer, now, and can pass to Chubster tonight.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

You mean 30 minutes after deadline right?

So you got yours Wednesday night, and passed it to Chubby, passing which happened last night?

Yeah, here is my items timeline:
Start of D2 (Wednesday): got mistletoe, passed to J23, who confirmed receiving it
Start of D3 (yesterday): got hammer, passed to Chubby, who had hammer turn to dust
Start of D4 (today): got dancing sword, have not yet decided where to pass it

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

As long as we're in a day cycle over the weekend as I hate being in a night cycle where there can be basically no weekend activity

Vote Monday

Day 4 will fully process and Day 5 will begin sometime post-deadline tonight. (another way of saying, I agree with you)

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

The chart is supposed to show each person's vote in terms of the voting record at the time of their vote.

Based on my incomprehensible chart I feel good about Heinz. While Telle's vote got Danny past the joke-vote stage I think she could reasonably expect Lathum, Eagle and Chubby to garner the most votes for the rest of the day. Heinz, on the other hand, put Danny on a level footing with the rest of the day one candidates.

I think Thomkal and Bug are the best candidates in terms of pure voting history. Both of their second day votes were so late that they didn't matter. I didn't like the way Bug was voting Lathum because he trusted Chubby - perfect excuse if Lathum turns up villager. Thomkal was pushing at Lathum. While I recognise that he had a decent case he has to accept that his reasoning left him pushing an unknown over a wolf.

Autumn getting blinkers on Barkeep and those blinkers apparently leading him to vote Lathum over Darth Vilus looks really bad. Seems like he was using any excuse to defend DV - despite claiming to be after him for two days. I give him a smidgeon of trust over the way he corralled voters onto Danny day two - but I think he would recognise that Danny was a lost cause and understood Chubby's reveal. He did vote DV in the stage between reveals on day two but moved to Heinz. Which seems odd as that was Danny's candidate.

If you recognise that Chubby was revealing as Thor then mau putting the fifth vote on Danny is pretty irrelevant. Other than that he put Chubby in the lead when 4-4-4-4 on day one and chased after Barkeep day three.

I think there are a number of good candidates. Not sure who's the best one though.

Just a quick jump in here to comment on this and to let you know I'm mostly going to be away from my computer for a good chunk of the afternoon.

I have no real defense against what Narcizo said about me here. I moved late on Danny and I can understand why people would think its a wolf move. My hesitation on voting for Danny stemmed more from the Day 1 debacle in the Dark Knight game where Danny pulled something similar, I helped support him wanting to be lynched, he turned out to be the Joker, and it was basically game over for the village (so like Chubby I was happy to choose the right way this time over the guy who got me in that game).

I really thought I was on the right track with Lathum and I still may be despite last night's results. I would find it surprising that wolves would push DV over a fellow wolf in Lathum, as there was still going to be suspicion on him. And frankly if I changed late to Darth, it would have made me look even more like a wolf. After feeling so strongly about Lathum being a wolf, I just couldn't see backing off him even at the end.

So vote me if you feel you must, but I really am just a villager with a bad voting record.

[EagleFan]

vote hoops

Not a fan of his voting record. Will jump on later to try to explain more. Heading to yet another meeting so no time at the moment.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

vote hoops

Not a fan of his voting record. Will jump on later to try to explain more. Heading to yet another meeting so no time at the moment.

I certainly have a raised eyebrow myself. I can't quite decide what to make of his voting history which I think is very strong, but not quite as bulletproof as he does.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

vote hoops

Not a fan of his voting record. Will jump on later to try to explain more. Heading to yet another meeting so no time at the moment.

I find that very odd. You think his voting record is worse than Thomkal, Bug or Autumn's?

[Narcizo]

I had my worries about Hoops with this business with the Hammer being a fake but with a decent explanation for that I can't see any way he deserves a vote over the likes of, well, a lot of people out there. There's also the fact that he's been perfectly transparent in his dealings with items when there's a chance he might have been able to grab the mistletoe.

[hoopsguy]

Look, you guys can vote for me if you want - I'm a vanilla villager and no great loss to the group. But I think you are certifiably insane if you think that I'm the best choice for a vote based on a number of items.

1.) I had the mistletoe and passed it to J23, who confirmed receiving it. I was public with this knowledge and made sure to coordinate with EagleFan on how this should be distributed.
2.) I put down what I consider key votes on both Danny and Darth the last two days. No moving around (didn't have time to do so, based on availability) and both were wolves in tight races at the time I cast the votes.

You can argue that the wolves will always have the opportunity to have great voting records, and that is true. But from time to time villagers get stuff right as well and I've been fortunate with that this game. Danny I was pretty darn sure was a wolf, but I was mildly surprised DV was one. That was a case of good fortune on the vote rather than any kind of penetrating insight.

[Narcizo]

On the other hand Hoops

How come you're still alive on day four?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I really thought I was on the right track with Lathum and I still may be despite last night's results. I would find it surprising that wolves would push DV over a fellow wolf in Lathum, as there was still going to be suspicion on him. And frankly if I changed late to Darth, it would have made me look even more like a wolf. After feeling so strongly about Lathum being a wolf, I just couldn't see backing off him even at the end.
.

If DV and I are both wolves why would we vote for each other? It would have been perfectly logical for us both to vote BK and play it off that we made self defense votes.

[Narcizo]

I'm thinking about hopping my vote over to Autumn because I find it strange that he's still willing to chase Barkeep (well, that and other stuff). But Eagle's vote has left me wondering if it's me who's gone mad.

[hoopsguy]

Heh - just lucky, I guess?

Seriously, I would like to better understand what happened the night we have no kill. We've assumed that Chubby/Thor (or maybe EF/Balder, but more doubtful) has the bodyguard role, but I don't think there has been any explanation at all offered up in the thread as to what happened. The wolves will know, so right now the villagers are operating at a disadvantage in terms of interpreting that (non)result.

The reasons I could see for keeping it quiet is that roles aren't spelled out, so maybe our identified role players are more comfortable with keeping their abilities to themselves. But I'll admit I'm starting to ask the question of why they haven't been touched. Killing J23 makes sense for last night, but those two players would be the most likely conversion targets.

It isn't a path I want to pursue too much, but it is something that I thought about in the "why still alive" school of thought.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

If DV and I are both wolves why would we vote for each other? It would have been perfectly logical for us both to vote BK and play it off that we made self defense votes.

Except that both you DID have your votes on me until the vote on me fizzled.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Except that both you DID have your votes on me until the vote on me fizzled.

I don't think that's really true Barkeep. I think Lathum spent most of the day with his vote on Darth. It was only when Darth seemed to be losing momentum that he shifted to you. And the votes on you only really started to fizzle out when he moved his vote back to Darth.

God, if Lathum turns out to be a wolf I'm going to be so pissed off.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heh - just lucky, I guess?

Seriously, I would like to better understand what happened the night we have no kill. We've assumed that Chubby/Thor (or maybe EF/Balder, but more doubtful) has the bodyguard role, but I don't think there has been any explanation at all offered up in the thread as to what happened. The wolves will know, so right now the villagers are operating at a disadvantage in terms of interpreting that (non)result.

The reasons I could see for keeping it quiet is that roles aren't spelled out, so maybe our identified role players are more comfortable with keeping their abilities to themselves. But I'll admit I'm starting to ask the question of why they haven't been touched. Killing J23 makes sense for last night, but those two players would be the most likely conversion targets.

It isn't a path I want to pursue too much, but it is something that I thought about in the "why still alive" school of thought.

Vote hoops

My case against him is thus:

His voting record while solid is frequently solid only once the decision is clear
He passed a fake object to Thor. This fake object passing could explain why the wolves killed J23 rather than Chubby (perhaps hoping the fake hammer would do damage/fool Chubby).
He is trying to undermine our circle of trust after two consecutive days of wolves. Way to early to start asking the "why aren't they dead" question.

There are people with worse voting records than hoops, but his posting record pushes me over the edge.

[hoopsguy]

BK, can you please go and find what the vote tally was for Danny on D2 and DV on D3 when I cast the votes? I'll look them up as well, but I'm quite sure I was not remotely piling on in either case.

I'm not trying to undermine any circle of trust. But if people don't wonder what happened on the night with no kill, they aren't paying attention. I haven't commented on it until now and it was only in the context of Narcizo's (I assume) joking post.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I don't think that's really true Barkeep. I think Lathum spent most of the day with his vote on Darth. It was only when Darth seemed to be losing momentum that he shifted to you. And the votes on you only really started to fizzle out when he moved his vote back to Darth.

God, if Lathum turns out to be a wolf I'm going to be so pissed off.

I've long thought Lathum is a villager. His threats to take his ball and go home and then coming back gives me some pause (would feel more of an obligation to not screw over a team of wolves through unavailability), but I'm not suggesting he's a wolf.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

I don't think that's really true Barkeep. I think Lathum spent most of the day with his vote on Darth. It was only when Darth seemed to be losing momentum that he shifted to you. And the votes on you only really started to fizzle out when he moved his vote back to Darth.

If DV and Lathum both kept their vote on you I think it's very likely that you would have been lynched.

[hoopsguy]

From post #1323 by Narcizo:
"#743 18:05 Hoops votes Danny (6)"

This made the vote 6-5 Danny over Chubby

From post #1324 by Narcizo:
"#1200 21:42 Hoops votes Darth Vilus (7)"

This made the vote 7-5-4 CV over Lathum over Barkeep

[hoopsguy]

Dola, CV clearly stands for Darth Vilus.

No editing, no by this Norseman.

[Narcizo]

Now I know the world's gone mad. WTF BK?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Except that both you DID have your votes on me until the vote on me fizzled.

not true, when I switched back to him the vote was very close still

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

If DV and Lathum both kept their vote on you I think it's very likely that you would have been lynched.

I don't think this is true. But I will grant you that Lathum was pretty intent on voting DV and went back to DV at the first opportunity.

[Narcizo]

So halfway through day four and three of the four votes out there are on people who voted to lynch Darth? Way to keep things simple.

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to go with one of the guys that I've been the most suspicious of so far this game. Could probably flip a coin between him and Thomkal, with Telle in the team photo but I'll go with the guy who I think I learn the most from based on volume of posts.

VOTE AUTUMN

[Lathum]

dola- it was 5-5-4 when I switch to BK, once NTN comes in and votes DV, I switch back to DV. Things were very much in question still at that point

[Lathum]

Vote Autumn

His vote last night seels it for me, I would also be open to voting Telle

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- it was 5-5-4 when I switch to BK, once NTN comes in and votes DV, I switch back to DV. Things were very much in question still at that point

Right. That was my point why I don't think I was at risk if you two had stayed. But I do 100% agree that you were eager to vote for DV. That confirms my general good impression of you rather than taking away from it.

[Barkeep49]

Since he's pinging other people with his crusade, and Narc who has been on a very similar wave length to me thinks I'm crazy voting for hoops, I'm going to go ahead switch to Autumn.

Unvote Hoops
Vote Autumn

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Vote Autumn

His vote last night seels it for me, I would also be open to voting Telle

You have to bold it n00b!