Super Bowl Chatter Thread

[larrymcg421]

Congrats to Stafford who somehow learned "how to win" this season and now "has what it takes". We'll pretend surrounding team talent has nothing to do with it.

[RainMaker]

I didn't realize Kupp was a 3rd round pick. Had never heard of him in college. Great story though. He was the best offensive player all season.

[stevew]

Kupp’s awesome and all, but it’s a bit eye rolling when they talk about his journey from Eastern Washington to the NFL. I mean he’s a 3rd generation NFL player so that kinda helps a bit

[stevew]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

not following you

Sorry, Meadow Soprano won the evening for me.

[Swaggs]

Am I the only one that didn’t realize that Eminem kneeling during the performance was in solidarity with Colin Kapenicke? I saw him do it, but hadn’t heard anything about the kneeling this season (granted I wasn’t following all that closely).

[CrimsonFox]

i actually fell asleep during the halftime show...and through much of the game.

ps i hate covid

[AlexB]

Went to bed straight after the game (it was 3.30am here!) and was surprised to see Kupp got the MVP. Kupp was good, scored two TDs, but thought Aaron Donald dominated in the second half and deserved MVP personally

[AlexB]

Dola - although not my preferred music style, the half time show was amazing - I think if it had all be Dre/Snoop it wouldn’t have worked as well, but by having a greatest hits of an era vibe it was great.

Didn’t know Mary J Blige’s songs or Kendrick Lamarr’s: liked her songs, his not so much, but even the overall show in their sections was still spectacular

[miked]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Went to bed straight after the game (it was 3.30am here!) and was surprised to see Kupp got the MVP. Kupp was good, scored two TDs, but thought Aaron Donald dominated in the second half and deserved MVP personally

Kupp scored 2 TDs and on that last drive, caught 4 passes, ran for first down on 4th down, and drew like 5 penalties. With no other receiving threats. Hard to say no to that.

[albionmoonlight]

Congrats to the Rams.

[molson]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Dola - although not my preferred music style, the half time show was amazing - I think if it had all be Dre/Snoop it wouldn’t have worked as well, but by having a greatest hits of an era vibe it was great.

Didn’t know Mary J Blige’s songs or Kendrick Lamarr’s: liked her songs, his not so much, but even the overall show in their sections was still spectacular

I think that was the first full Super Bowl halftime show I've watched since U2 in 2001. I always just kind of wander away, but I couldn't stop watching this one, great stuff.

[miami_fan]

Is Cooper Kupp always that awkward in interviews? I don't want to jump to the conclusion that he had a concussion, but he seemed so out of it during the post game interviews and celebrations.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Is Cooper Kupp always that awkward in interviews? I don't want to jump to the conclusion that he had a concussion, but he seemed so out of it during the post game interviews and celebrations.

It’s cause he probably had a concussion and nobody cared.

[Ksyrup]

As it seemed last night, looks like an ACL for OBJ.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by stevew

It’s cause he probably had a concussion and nobody cared.

That hit on the play that never happened because of offsetting penalties looked like enough to send him to the tent. It wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Brutal sport. I wonder how much longer it will be around. In the meantime, at least he gets to experience the initial joy of winning the Super Bowl and realizing he's the MVP all over again.

There's a quote from the book I'm reading right now that I'd add to the Quoteland if I were still doing this.

"The physical costs are so extreme - the game has a 100 percent injury rate - that football players are men with an intimate understanding of pain."

That's from Collision Low Crossers, by Nicholas Dawidoff, and he's paraphrasing Rex Ryan in that quote.

Just thinking about what a collision low crosser is - a linebacker/safety move - purposely running into receivers inside the five-yard contact box to disrupt timing routes... that kind of thing alone would put most of us in bed for a week.

[albionmoonlight]

Yeah. He got hit helmet to helmet hard enough to draw a flag. But not even one play off for a concussion evaluation.

Maybe the answer is to just let guys play with concussions. But if the league is going to go through all the window dressing of having "Independent neurologists" or whatever on the sidelines, then they should probably go ahead and use them in situations like that?

[RainMaker]

The issue is there is no consistency with rules in the NFL. If that was a regular season game, Kupp would have been pulled.

They let players on both sides of the ball hold as much as they wanted. Basically played with penalties off. Then just did a 180 in the final 2 minutes. You called taunting all season and then ignored Stafford running 20 yards to scream in a defender's face after he thought he threw a touchdown.

It's the only sport I know of that completely changes its rules at various times without telling anyone.

[stevew]

I love Andrew Whitworth as much as the next guy and he's obviously a class act. But literally every highlight of his in the last 7-10 years has been him holding a pass rusher.

[CrimsonFox]

it's a pity the bengals didn't win. They really deserved it.
On the other hand...if they had won there would be a lot of flipped cars and property damage. Instead there will just be a lot of people in bad moods

[Kodos]

They really need an independent person in the replay booth who can send anybody to the tent without input from the teams.

[CrimsonFox]

The wise words of kodos. What would we do without them...

[Kodos]

Thrive?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Kodos

They really need an independent person in the replay booth who can send anybody to the tent without input from the teams.

I thought they already had this? Slider was probably set to low for this game.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Kodos

They really need an independent person in the replay booth who can send anybody to the tent without input from the teams.

I recall a play where they did stop for an injury and Collinsworth at least mentioned that it was possible that it was because of the person in the booth.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by stevew

It’s cause he probably had a concussion and nobody cared.

If I am being honest, I was probably one of those who did not care in the moment. I never considered that anyone would take him off the field. I do remember having the thought that he has to get up fast before the trainers come out. It was not until I was watching some of the highlights today that I had the thought. I have not really seen or heard him in interviews so I did not know if the interview after they announced that he had won the MVP was normal. The footage of him right after the game where he was just sort of wandering around amongst the other players on the field like he was lost was just weird.

[stevew]

I actually called it in post 59 of this thread but butchered the spelling of his last name.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by stevew

I thought they already had this? Slider was probably set to low for this game.

I think it's someone who can help with obvious calls on things like incompletions. I don't think they can call down to wipe out or call a penalty.

[Ksyrup]

So the news item about Snoop Dogg smoking weed before halftime - is the "news" here that he didn't smoke during or immediately after?

[Ksyrup]

Awesome angle.

This angle makes Stafford's no-look even more impressive. �� (via @RamsNFL)pic.twitter.com/5eaiwZPBxv

— NFL (@NFL) February 14, 2022

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

I love Andrew Whitworth as much as the next guy and he's obviously a class act. But literally every highlight of his in the last 7-10 years has been him holding a pass rusher.

There were 2 plays where he literally tackled the end after getting beat.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Awesome angle.

That's incredible!

[stevew]

The Eyes in the Sky


Medical Timeouts
The booth ATC spotters have the authority to halt play with a medical timeout if they observe a player who may have suffered a concussion or head injury.This timeout does not count against either team. Game officials also have the authority to send a player off the field for medical evaluation.
The adoption of the medical timeout marks the first time ever in a major sport that a non-participant can freeze the game clock for player safety.
“The game moves extremely fast,” said Surprenant. “But we have the capability to stop a game and do a medical timeout, so a player can receive medical care,” he said.


So they’re there but don’t give a F I guess?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There were 2 plays where he literally tackled the end after getting beat.

Yeah, glad I’m not the only one who notices how the rules don’t apply to this guy. Nate Solder was another guy who just bear hugged all game and nobody cares.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yeah, glad I’m not the only one who notices how the rules don’t apply to this guy. Nate Solder was another guy who just bear hugged all game and nobody cares.

He also committed a false start on the big 3rd down at the end of the game (so did the other tackle but it wasn't as obvious). He's a vet and had to know they weren't calling penalties and every little bit helps when you're 40.

Actually that's not Whitworth, my bad. He's on the left side (and did get an early jump too!).

[RainMaker]

Donald was also lined up offside on the big 4th down which sort of feels unfair with how good he is.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

That Kia robot dog commercial was great. Now that's what I'm talking about

FWIW, ranked #4

Super Bowl commercial rankings: The top 10 ads according to Ad Meter

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He also committed a false start on the big 3rd down at the end of the game (so did the other tackle but it wasn't as obvious). He's a vet and had to know they weren't calling penalties and every little bit helps when you're 40.

Actually that's not Whitworth, my bad. He's on the left side (and did get an early jump too!).

These are the game changers? There were no false starts or holds that weren't called on the Cincinnati? Really?

I'd take time to post the facemask pull but I think everyone is aware.

One thing about that call that came to my mind was the Rams overcame it. They didn't sulk and lose a game they could still win like some teams (Saints) they played on and made it right on their own.

But yeah, lets go with "he had his head in the neutral zone.. he had his head in the neutral zone!!!!!" In the voice of Barny Fife.. "False start.. false start..false start" lol..

There are literally no things that could be listed from the Rams side that would parallel what is being offered up from the Bengals side? Right? Well other than a 75yd td that was allowed despite a facemask. That call had no bearing at all.

Bengals lost. Ask their coach or any of their players and they will tell you the same.

[JPhillips]

But it was a disaster for the officials. So many completely missed calls. Not judgment calls, just obvious, objective penalties missed. I'm not sure how to fix it, but the NFL clearly has a problem with poor officiating, not just in this game, but in multiple playoff games, too.

[albionmoonlight]

I don't know if full time officials will change anything. But it does seem like it might be time to try it. Also, maybe add another person to the crew? More eyes means more of a chance to see things.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But it was a disaster for the officials. So many completely missed calls. Not judgment calls, just obvious, objective penalties missed. I'm not sure how to fix it, but the NFL clearly has a problem with poor officiating, not just in this game, but in multiple playoff games, too.

Yes, it was a normal officiated NFL game.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I don't know if full time officials will change anything. But it does seem like it might be time to try it. Also, maybe add another person to the crew? More eyes means more of a chance to see things.

It is inexcusable, with the money the NFL generates, that the league does not have fulltime officials. It will help but it will not fix all of the things that happen. I'm not even sure people would want a game that was officiated to a degree where everything was being called?

I think all acknowledge there is holding on every play. What is the result if all of those are called? Less holding? Maybe. Less offense and more injuries (QBs look out)? Probably.

I think, like basketball, there is only so much you can do. Players in the league will know and understand what they can "normally" do and what they can't. They go into games knowing that those "normal" standards will have to adjust to how the game is being called that day. Where I think fulltime officials would help would be to make it a more consistent "normal" and that is probably as good as it will ever get.

I think the Bengals players and coaches accept that they lost because they understand how it all works. You play out the game as it is dealt to you. Sometimes you get a break sometimes you don't. In most games you will have "look at this" that can be countered by the other side with "but what about that". There will be outliers that may be terrible but the players and coaches will understand that they still had 60+ plays to make those incidents not be consequential.

Go back to that Rams Saints game and the PI not called. It was the game!! according to many. They all forget the facemask on Goff that would have given the Rams a 1st and G on the 1(?) or inside the 5, that wasn't called minutes before. Some justify that with "well the Rams had time to make up for that" lol.
So did the Saints. One of my first thoughts was if the Rams lose due to the facemask\offensive PI not being called people will be out shouting "serves them right, karma is a bitch". Again the Goff facemask never occurred.

If the holding had not been called and the Rams don't score on 4th down from the 8 their coaches and players would be saying "we lost". Unless they held Cin to a punt, got another shot, and won. Back to play through\overcome If they don't do that and do end up losing well...

Rams fans, like Bengals fans now, would be saying "what about...." .

Another normally officiated game

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He also committed a false start on the big 3rd down at the end of the game (so did the other tackle but it wasn't as obvious). He's a vet and had to know they weren't calling penalties and every little bit helps when you're 40.

Actually that's not Whitworth, my bad. He's on the left side (and did get an early jump too!).

You could call several of these a game and right are wrong, officials at all levels are more lenient with what they call "simultaneous snap/movement" I have just come to accept that if the movement precedes the snap by fraction of a second it usually won't get called as the tackles anticipate an audible count, which the Rams were able to use more than the Bengals. What makes this look bad is is the receivers were slow off the LOS.

At the end of the day, there were 6 penalties called, so they did not make a difference in the game, making plays did and you have to overcome calls that are borderline that don't go your way. I have always hated that narrative as a coach, officials will rarely ever cost a team a game, coaching, skill and execution cost you games.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

At the end of the day, there were 6 penalties called, so they did not make a difference in the game, making plays did and you have to overcome calls that are borderline that don't go your way.

Not buying that the overall tally tells the entire story.

If CIN wins that game in a close score with both offenses deadlocked, fully a third of the football universe is still on fire today based on the massive missed call on the facemask-tackle that turned into a long TD out of thin air. Virtually nobody is still talking about the fraction-of-a-second false start here or there.

Some plays and calls/missed calls clearly have a much higher magnitude of effect on the outcome. If they are obvious bad/missed calls, amplify that even further. This is maybe the most egregious case ever, other than it not happening at the very end of the game.

[Solecismic]

When you have 22 people moving at the same time and contact is a major part of the game, real-time officiating isn't going to be close to perfect.

That's why you annually hear talk about "points of emphasis" and trends develop that take advantage of what traditionally isn't called (let's set up quick, short passes to the outside while messing with the defenders out there in pass coverage so we can yac away to our hearts' content).

Part of the appeal of baseball is that we can conceive of a sport where the umps don't make mistakes. We can have robot strike zones, instant replay to correct the occasional Denkinger (and, really, will there ever be a bigger official's mistake causing more championship-level hi-jinks in any sport than that one?).

It almost makes up for the drudgery of a baseball telecast (most of the "action" between chewing and spitting and waiting for pitches amounts to one guy throwing the ball sixty feet and six inches to another guy, and nothing else). Not really. I can't even remember the last baseball telecast I stuck with for more than a minute or two. It has been close to two decades.

I think we just have to accept that officials aren't going to get it right on every play - in fact if there were replay to the extent that it's possible if we could have infinite time delays watching all 22 players on every play, we'd probably find that there are multiple maybe-penalties every second.

It's unfortunate when something happens like the seemingly-obvious face-pulling on a 75-yard catch that changed the game (that was about a third of Burrow's passing yardage on a day that was notable for just how good the Rams are against the pass). I don't like that, but it's not something we can necessarily correct or prevent the way Denkinger's gaffe can be handled today.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I think we just have to accept that officials aren't going to get it right on every play - in fact if there were replay to the extent that it's possible if we could have infinite time delays watching all 22 players on every play, we'd probably find that there are multiple maybe-penalties every second.

No, I don't want a system paralyzed by reviews, nobody does. I just want one sober guy, watching each game closely, with the advantage of camera technology, to be able to hit a button. Like one time every ten games. But yes, like that exact time in this exact game.

I know it's an oversimplification, but that's where nearly every right-thinking person was when we saw the blatant facemask-interference foul literally center stage two seconds after the play, and we were effectively shushed "of course, we all see it was a clear foul, but there's nothing anyone can do."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

No, I don't want a system paralyzed by reviews, nobody does. I just want one sober guy, watching each game closely, with the advantage of camera technology, to be able to hit a button. Like one time every ten games. But yes, like that exact time in this exact game.

Reality is that it'd be more like ten times every game.

[QuikSand]

I'm open to the argument that what I wans is practically infeasible, due to human nature.

"Upstairs" already controls challenges at certain points of each game today. Has that become unworkable? Is that too distant an analogy to hold weight in saying we'd want this override authority to be used sparingly?

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

No, I don't want a system paralyzed by reviews, nobody does. I just want one sober guy, watching each game closely, with the advantage of camera technology, to be able to hit a button. Like one time every ten games. But yes, like that exact time in this exact game.

I know it's an oversimplification, but that's where nearly every right-thinking person was when we saw the blatant facemask-interference foul literally center stage two seconds after the play, and we were effectively shushed "of course, we all see it was a clear foul, but there's nothing anyone can do."

Three years ago, right-thinking people (my internal skeptic voices this term with a healthy dose of Elmer Gantry's ironic fervor) said the exact same thing about what Nickell Robey-Coleman did to TommyLee Lewis (which, as I type this, seems more like the refrain of a folksy '60s activism tune).

Beneficiary, Rams, of course.

In 2019, with exactly the rule change you advocate put in place, coaches spent 81 of their challenges on pass interference reviews. Thirteen of those challenges were successful. That's a far lower rate of success than for other uses of the challenge.

As a result, in 2020, the rule change, which was temporary, wasn't even voted on for permanent use.

Unfortunately, the answer is more that officials need to do better. The replay shows that while the official following Higgins was doing a good job staying in position, he was still partially screened from the facemask. It's unfortunate that the league statement is that the contact was seen and viewed as a rake rather than a pull. I think the truth was it was missed, and for understandable reasons.

Sure, I'd like that eye in the sky to correct the worst of the worst. But what is the standard? If that's the worst of the worst, what's bad enough also to warrant intervention?

In short, I don't know how to fix this without waving a magic wand. Maybe you alter the challenge rule to allow one special pass-interference challenge? I don't know. It's worth discussing. But like with most issues, the worst time to discuss it is at the height of outrage.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Sure, I'd like that eye in the sky to correct the worst of the worst. But what is the standard? If that's the worst of the worst, what's bad enough also to warrant intervention?

In short, I don't know how to fix this without waving a magic wand. Maybe you alter the challenge rule to allow one special pass-interference challenge? I don't know. It's worth discussing. But like with most issues, the worst time to discuss it is at the height of outrage.

I think all that is fair.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Reality is that it'd be more like ten times every game.

Really rough math here... about 140 plays, 22 players, spitball an average of two interactions per play per player... about 3,000 interactions during a game that could be reviewed.

Most have little to do with the outcome of the play, but going back to what I wrote about the "collision low crossers" of Rex Ryan's world, who knows?

You say ten. I say more like 500, if you want to examine each questionable interaction in depth. Which we don't. Sometimes, when watching what is currently reviewable during a college game (particularly with dangerous hits), it seems like the only beneficiaries of these rules are the networks cramming in even more advertisements.

But there is an art to the "butterfly effect" potential in Ryan's defensive scheming. Good coaches take the existing rules and bend them to the point of breaking.

[AlexB]

Just look at how VAR has fared in football - that is all eye in the sky stuff, no coaches challenges

They used to say that refs got 98% of the big calls right, but the indignation of the losing managers/fans on the 2% outweighed the 98% success rate. So they brought in VAR.

There’s exactly the same indignation and possibly even more complaints, as offside is now down to millimetres (expanded to maybe a centimetre or two this year as so many goals were disallowed that would have stood beforehand due to a toenail being offside), and instead of arguing about refs on the field getting it wrong, people argue that the VAR official gets it wrong.

Ultimately the eye in the sky is still a human being watching the game, and humans are not perfect. When many rules are subjective, I believe leaving it to the refs on the field is the best way overall. It’s never going to be perfect, but understanding the flow and feel of a game helps decisions on minor fouls that either need to be clamped down on if the game is getting out of hand, or can be let go if the game is flowing in a good spirit

Perfect officiating in most sports is not exciting, and the more games are stopped to try and get to 98.5% accurate instead of 98%, the more it detracts from the atmosphere, the higher the risk of TV viewer numbers dropping and ultimately the sport will suffer

Having the odd bad call is part of the spectacle, and sport is overall all the better with them versus continual stoppages and a bland product.

Personally I think the NFL has it about right - two challenges to give the opportunity to catch the most egregious mistakes (although personally I would change it to unlimited challenges as long as you are vindicated with each one - i.e. as soon as your challenge is rejected, even if it is the first one, you don’t get any more)