WW LXXXVII Terror at the University :Game over, Wolves win!

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

oh yeah, we dont need new cadidites....
unvote rpi
vote grammaticus

Better, at least there are only 6 candidates instead of 7 now

[Hannibal Lecter]

And I would like to say, 'ITS GREAT TO BE PLAYING AGAIN!"

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

And I would like to say, 'ITS GREAT TO BE PLAYING AGAIN!"

Amen to that.

Thinking about this some more, I'm going to move my vote off Hannibal. I want to keep the roommate situation around at least for one night, so I'm going to switch my attention to the room with three people. And since neither RPI nor Heinz have any votes, that leaves the Jackal.

UNVOTE HANNIBAL LECTER
VOTE THE JACKAL

[Hannibal Lecter]

did we discuss weekend play?

[Telle]

Vote count as of post #104:

Danny - 1 - Cheif Rum (46)
The Jackel - 2 - Barkeep (49), Jonathan Ezarik (103)
Grammaticus - 2 - RPI-Fan (51), Hannibal (98)
Chief Rum - 1 - EagleFan (76)
EagleFan - 2 - jeheinz (79), Abe Sargent (86)

[Danny]

I believe deadline today, tomorrow and and then next deadline on Monday

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

I believe deadline today, tomorrow and and then next deadline on Monday

thats correct

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Lathum

thats correct

The t is not red, is that some sort of hint about Telle? Hmmm

[jeff061]

Vote Eaglefan

At risk of piling on, I was planning on voting for him anyways for reasons already stated.

Obviously I have no clue of his guilt, doesn't take much to sway towards a vote this early.

[Lathum]

OK gang, I'll be out a good portion of the day. I am gonna try and check in at some point during the day, today is just really busy for me between running errands and classes.

If someone could keep up with a vote count that would be very helpfull.

[hoopsguy]

Telle, I'm fine with leaving the vote counting to you if you are going to be around.

[hoopsguy]

OK, next thought on the in-game mechanics and how they play out:

What would you do if you were a wolf and your villager roommate had a vote? Would you try to bury him, protect him, or ignore it?

My initial thought on this is that it is better to see your roommate voted off than you doing the dirty work, at least early in the game. Sure you have the 100% chance of getting your roommate with the night kill, but if he is voted off it was the "will of the people", not you.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, next thought on the in-game mechanics and how they play out:

What would you do if you were a wolf and your villager roommate had a vote? Would you try to bury him, protect him, or ignore it?

My initial thought on this is that it is better to see your roommate voted off than you doing the dirty work, at least early in the game. Sure you have the 100% chance of getting your roommate with the night kill, but if he is voted off it was the "will of the people", not you.

I'd probably ignore it, less chance of slipping up in PM's and like you said, kills them off without having to do it via night kill. That said, gaining the trust of your roommate is not a bad idea either.

[Danny]

FWIW, it's not a large sample size, but I did not get a wolfy vibe from EF based on our PM's so far. Considering day 1 is also pretty random, I'd rather not lose my roommate this early, so when I do vote it won't be for EF.

[jeff061]

If you could protect without drawing suspicion I could see that, otherwise ignore it. Seems to me you'd want him to be alive just for a few days to see if you could get the PM ability to work in your favor.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Danny

FWIW, it's not a large sample size, but I did not get a wolfy vibe from EF based on our PM's so far. Considering day 1 is also pretty random, I'd rather not lose my roommate this early, so when I do vote it won't be for EF.

Anyone get a wolfy vibe for anyone really? I'm not really going to argue for voting for EF beyond the piddly reason already stated. Certainly not going to feel like a mistake was made if anyone else is voted of instead.

Though I do enjoy reading Hoopsguys posts(i forgot about that ). Please don't read into that statement.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Telle, I'm fine with leaving the vote counting to you if you are going to be around.

I can do it through most of the day, but I'll be taking off around 4:30 and won't be back until after deadline. So if you want to take what I have at that point and then continue on that'll be fine.

[hoopsguy]

Heh, thanks Jeff. The first couple of days I like trying to think a little outside the box. Particularly on D1, when none of us know anything anyway.

And, to answer your question, I do not get any big-time wolfy vibes on anyone yet. But I rarely trust my gut anyway ... it is wrong much more often than my logic when it comes to this group.

[jeff061]

I completely agree. The last time I played this I used well defined logic to pick out 4 wolves as a villager, three of which turned out correct. Everyone thought I was playing them and almost voted me out.

That was my last game .

[Danny]

3 out 4, slacker

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Would you rather I random dot com it? It's day one, I need something to use to determine the vote so that makes as much sense as any.

Interesting, last game you tried using twisted logic to get the vote going towards me and I remember how that one ended.

In a way, I would. Since if you randomed it (assuming no lying on your part) then at least I could take solace in that.

But there are a couple things I didn't like about your post, truth be told.

Voting for the last poster seems counter-beneficial to the village under the assumption that posters -> discussion -> discussion is a village benefit.

Then you didn't vote that way, why, because it was hoops or Telle?

And then to vote for someone lynching your roomate, seems equally suspicious. I mean if we presume you're good here, then shouldn't your roomate have just as much of a chance of being a wolf as anyone else out there, including the person voting for them?


It just read Grade-A strange to me.

I don't know if you're a wolf or not, and my one holds the same Day-One-Lack-Of-Information weight it always does, but short of random.org'ing myself, you've given me the best line of thought as of where to go.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

What would you do if you were a wolf and your villager roommate had a vote? Would you try to bury him, protect him, or ignore it?

If I were a wolf, which I'm not, I'd rank my likely course of action as

#1 - Ignore. If I'm a wolf, I bloody don't care who gets lynched, so long as it's not me or a fellow wolf

#2 - Protect. Just to keep the slim chance that the PM's could work in my favor.

#3 - Bury. That would just be a seemingly bad idea. I don't tend to try and bury any one person in particular if I'm a wolf really ever and this case wouldn't really change that any.

Of course, with that said, I'm a villager here, and if someone votes for one of my roomates (I think someone just did actually), I'm equally likely to Ignore it. PM'ing is nice, but it can get a villager just as twisted up as ever (See Narcizo:Chess Game)

[jeff061]

I think I would be less likely to protect a roommate as a villager than as a wolf. Unless something in the PMs convinced me otherwise.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, really, if I'm a villager, I'd need a DANG good reason to protect anyone.

[hoopsguy]

Heinz, I think I would go in the reverse order:
1. Bury - getting rid of a villager, without having to really get your hands dirty (lynch, not night kill), is a big win for the wolves
2. Protect - could potentially turn your roommate into a strong supporter later in the game as they recall the support you offered. And on the off chance that the roommate is the seer, bodyguard, or duke? High value there to be had
3. Ignore - passive action, generally not how I play. I understand the thought process that others have laid out, but think it represents an opportunity lost.


Looking at the votes so far, here is what I've seen along these lines:
1.) Eagle - supported Danny (this was what prompted me to ask the question)
2.) Heinz + RPI - ignored, no votes or comments on BKs vote for their roommate
3.) Danny - so far, leaning towards supporting his roommate Eaglesfan

Are there any that I've missed?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I think I would be less likely to protect a roommate as a villager than as a wolf. Unless something in the PMs convinced me otherwise.

The only counter that I have on this is the ego saying, "I'm smart, I'll be able to figure out my roommate by virtue of our PMs. And if he is a villager, which is likely based on percentages, then I would prefer he is not wasted on a D1 lynch".

I definitely felt like that in the first game where I was allowed to swap PMs as a villager. Now? Hmm, maybe not as much but still a little bit.

[jeff061]

Really I think in a 1 to 1 conversation like PMs, which is not the best environment to read into because of the lack of information and variables, the only thing really I could be convinced of is if someone was saying they had a specific role. They'd of course have to back that up with in game actions.

Even then you'd have to watch yourself, as a wolf of course is going to have plenty of information to play with.

[EagleFan]

Here's my line of thinking, but if I am voted out for it than so be it. It's better to lose a vanilla villager than a roled one, though I would rather see us nab a wolf.

My past day one votes have been either:

- PB, used to be my constant day one vote (started for the heck of it and continued when I noticed that I was on the opposite side as him every game), obviously can't got this route and noticed others piling onto that in recent games so I am shying away from that one a bit as I don't want to be part of someone not wanting to play because they go out day one more often than they should
- random, though that gets people targetted day one
- self defense, unfortunately I have needed to use the self defense ploy way too much on day one lately

I was going to use the last poster idea, which I admitted in my post where I voted. Then I saw that someone had voted for my roommate and I figured in the spirit of the game I would vote for the person that voted for him. I don't know if you call it defending him as it only added another person into the party without putting someone in the lead.

I'll take one for the team if needed but would much rather live another day.

[Danny]

I don't think from a WW perspective he was defendng me. It would have made more sense to vote someone else who had a vote on them instead of a new person.

[jeheinz72]

I guess my overall thing is, if I'm a villager, I don't see all that much benefit to protecting my roomate. Maybe I'm looking at it a touch differently since i have two roomates here. But I think my tact would be the same.

I'm a villager. All I know for sure of is my villager-ness. Any other un-forced leaps of faith enter the possibility of a poor-decision into the mix.

Spirit of play I understand. But it's also easy to take an ill-willed intention and fit it into the spirit or story of the game at hand. That's old hat.

My vote stands, if others follow or leave, that's cool. But it's Day One, I've cast my lot and barring some huge revelation in another direction I'm not inclined to change it.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heinz, I think I would go in the reverse order:
1. Bury - getting rid of a villager, without having to really get your hands dirty (lynch, not night kill), is a big win for the wolves
2. Protect - could potentially turn your roommate into a strong supporter later in the game as they recall the support you offered. And on the off chance that the roommate is the seer, bodyguard, or duke? High value there to be had
3. Ignore - passive action, generally not how I play. I understand the thought process that others have laid out, but think it represents an opportunity lost.


Looking at the votes so far, here is what I've seen along these lines:
1.) Eagle - supported Danny (this was what prompted me to ask the question)
2.) Heinz + RPI - ignored, no votes or comments on BKs vote for their roommate
3.) Danny - so far, leaning towards supporting his roommate Eaglesfan

Are there any that I've missed?

For me its:

1). Protect: making allies is my #1 strategy to success as a wolf. I don;t think path will ever forget when he was my brother and we pm'd each other back and forth, and although I was Lucifer, I still got him on my side against Gabriel. There is nothing better as a wolf then to have non-wolves aligned with you in the game.
2). Ignore: If I can get the villagers to do my work for me, taking someone down while I stand on the sidelines, then I will usually take that route. Not always, because I want to keep people guessing, and if a chance to make an ally presents itself, then so much the better, but I'm happy to let others do my work for me.
3). Bury: Sometimes I need to take someone down. I've pushed for Chief Rum once or twice as a wolf in the thread because he was getting too close to home, once I helped to get him lynched and once I failed. Otherwise, I stay clear of the heavy hand.


One of the things I like to do is do something irrational, and then say, "Well, if I were a wolf, instead I would have done X or Y" where those make a lot more sense than the random kill I just did, and then everyone nods their head in agreement and moves to someone else. In fact, I find that strategy best used live in mafia games, and less useful in online threads.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I guess my overall thing is, if I'm a villager, I don't see all that much benefit to protecting my roomate. Maybe I'm looking at it a touch differently since i have two roomates here. But I think my tact would be the same.

I'm a villager. All I know for sure of is my villager-ness. Any other un-forced leaps of faith enter the possibility of a poor-decision into the mix.

Spirit of play I understand. But it's also easy to take an ill-willed intention and fit it into the spirit or story of the game at hand. That's old hat.

My vote stands, if others follow or leave, that's cool. But it's Day One, I've cast my lot and barring some huge revelation in another direction I'm not inclined to change it.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but since it's day one and pretty much throwing a dart at the board, I'd rather keep my roommate around if I have no more suspicion of him than anyone else. If this was after day one and I felt there was some logical basis to go on, having someone be my roommate wouldn't matter at all.

[EagleFan]

I would think the best wolf move would be to either say nothing with their vote on day one OR attack someone who did offer an explanation. Now if there were only someone among us using one of these approaches...

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Here's my line of thinking, but if I am voted out for it than so be it. It's better to lose a vanilla villager than a roled one, though I would rather see us nab a wolf.

My past day one votes have been either:

- PB, used to be my constant day one vote (started for the heck of it and continued when I noticed that I was on the opposite side as him every game), obviously can't got this route and noticed others piling onto that in recent games so I am shying away from that one a bit as I don't want to be part of someone not wanting to play because they go out day one more often than they should
- random, though that gets people targetted day one
- self defense, unfortunately I have needed to use the self defense ploy way too much on day one lately

I was going to use the last poster idea, which I admitted in my post where I voted. Then I saw that someone had voted for my roommate and I figured in the spirit of the game I would vote for the person that voted for him. I don't know if you call it defending him as it only added another person into the party without putting someone in the lead.

I'll take one for the team if needed but would much rather live another day.

Hey I'm not married to you or anything. If anyone jumps off you, I'm not bothered.

[The Jackal]

I think the roomate thing just throws a fun twist on the game, obviously the wolves have some interesting decisions to make on whom they target at night, because as soon as someone's roomate dies they're going to be looked at thoroughly.

Danny's reported vibes off EF make me a little more comfortable with what is in truth a self-preservation vote. Certainly willing to change as the day progresses.

VOTE EF

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Hey I'm not married to you or anything. If anyone jumps off you, I'm not bothered.

At least I won't have to worry about nagging...

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I would think the best wolf move would be to either say nothing with their vote on day one OR attack someone who did offer an explanation. Now if there were only someone among us using one of these approaches...

No offense, but that is a 100% self-serving theory you've got there.

But that's fine, whatever man. People want to lynch me, that's ok. They're wrong and surely not going to gain from it, but thems the breaks I call 'em like I see 'em.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I think the roomate thing just throws a fun twist on the game, obviously the wolves have some interesting decisions to make on whom they target at night, because as soon as someone's roomate dies they're going to be looked at thoroughly.

Taking that a step further, isn't it then in the wolves best interest to keep their roomie alive, for the sake of not garnering that attention?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Taking that a step further, isn't it then in the wolves best interest to keep their roomie alive, for the sake of not garnering that attention?

That will end up being an argument for anyone who's roomate dies, I'm sure. Question is how well we track wolf strategy for this one. The roomate (or roomates, for us) who's left alive after the night kills will either be drilled with questioning or passed over as "too obvious a candidate". Voting records should be huge a few days down the road.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Taking that a step further, isn't it then in the wolves best interest to keep their roomie alive, for the sake of not garnering that attention?

I actually agree with this and as a wolf it probably would be best to protect your roommate assuming the other candidate(s) are not wolves.

[Hannibal Lecter]

I hate my job!

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

No offense, but that is a 100% self-serving theory you've got there.

But that's fine, whatever man. People want to lynch me, that's ok. They're wrong and surely not going to gain from it, but thems the breaks I call 'em like I see 'em.

Funny, I was going to say the same to you.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

That will end up being an argument for anyone who's roomate dies, I'm sure. Question is how well we track wolf strategy for this one. The roomate (or roomates, for us) who's left alive after the night kills will either be drilled with questioning or passed over as "too obvious a candidate". Voting records should be huge a few days down the road.

I agree, and I think we should be careful about putting too much weight into whether someone's roommate was killed, both in for vilifying and protecting someone.

At this point, it's most likely my roommate will be the one killed, so of course I would say that though

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Funny, I was going to say the same to you.

Oh definitely, on my latest comment taking Jackal's post a step further. Just trying to make a point.

Really though, whether you're good or bad, you need to learn how to take a vote better. I'd actually maybe waver if you didn't keep going back and forth with me. But now I'm sticking for sticking sake.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter

I hate my job!

Ditto, gotta go have fun explaining to the client that if they have out-dated data in their test environment that was never upgraded they cannot expect good results with the test. Not sure if I will be on later but I'll take this one for the team if needed.

Vanilla student, no role.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Oh definitely, on my latest comment taking Jackal's post a step further. Just trying to make a point.

Really though, whether you're good or bad, you need to learn how to take a vote better. I'd actually maybe waver if you didn't keep going back and forth with me. But now I'm sticking for sticking sake.

All I did was explain my vote. Not sure what else you want me to do. Oh well, gotta bolt for a while.

[Telle]

VOTE THE JACKAL

He's one of two people with two votes, and the first to throw a fourth vote on somebody.

[The Jackal]

What is the vote count, out of curiosity?

[Danny]

I think 4 for EF, 3 for you and 2 for Gramm

[Telle]

Votes as of post 147:

4 - EagleFan - jeheinz (79), Abe Sargent (86), jeff061 (109), The Jackal (135)
3 - The Jackel - Barkeep (49), Jonathan Ezarik (103), Telle (147)
2 - Grammaticus - RPI-Fan (51), Hannibal (98)
1 - Danny - Cheif Rum (46)
1 - Chief Rum - EagleFan (76)