The NBA 2014 Offseason Thread

[sterlingice]

Charlotte's new jerseys are pretty good retro jerseys

Charlotte Hornets unveil new*jerseys | The Point Forward - SI.com


SI

[Young Drachma]

Not retro, no pinstripes.

[korme]

Should have kept the pinstripes

[korme]

Another case where the throwbacks are better. Should have kept teal as primary

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by nol

If only he had been dribbling a basketball out of the womb like Hakeem Olajuwon and Tim Duncan were

And I like Wiggins enough that I'd have been fine with a team taking him first overall before Embiid's injury. Just saying that the age at which one starts playing basketball is not the end-all be-all predictor for how skills and basketball IQ develop, especially when we're talking about seven-footers. In fact, you could easily argue that playing in a year-round competitive setting from elementary school onwards hinders the long-term development of big men.

Olajuwon is the exception that proves the rule. I'm not ready to put Embiid in Hall of Famer Olajuwon's company just yet.

Also, Embiid was way behind in his skills learning even as a senior in high school. I remember the scouting reports on him because UCLA (the college I follow) was looking at him closely before he chose Kansas. He's just flat behind the curve, and that's on top of any issues with when he actually started playing the game.

I think it's just nutty to go with him over the other players available near the top of the board.

[stevew]

The pinstripe retro Hornets jerseys could not be duplicated due to some rule about jerseys entering the Hardwood Classics line.

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

The pinstripe retro Hornets jerseys could not be duplicated due to some rule about jerseys entering the Hardwood Classics line.

Really?

[stevew]

from some Rovell article
Before arriving at the designs, the team went through an exhaustive process, which included making sure the exact colors can be sourced and testing how the uniforms read on camera.

Per league rules, the Hornets had to change up designs and logos from their history, as those designs now fall under the league's retro Hardwood Classics program.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by korme

Really?

According to today's Charlotte Observer story

The Hornets did not have the option of going with the exact uniforms worn in 1988, under NBA rules. The league requires updates.

Read more here: Charlotte Hornets unveil new uniforms | CharlotteObserver.com

[stevew]

Charlotte Hornets unveil three primary new uniforms - ESPN

maybe actually watch the video

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

from some Rovell article
Before arriving at the designs, the team went through an exhaustive process, which included making sure the exact colors can be sourced and testing how the uniforms read on camera.

Per league rules, the Hornets had to change up designs and logos from their history, as those designs now fall under the league's retro Hardwood Classics program.

Ahh, so I can put to rest for good my hope against hope that the Atl Hawks ditch their awful currents for their 80's design

[stevew]

Now reading that this injury on Embiid is similar to You Ming and Z.

I now have 0 idea what to do. I really like Exum and I think he could work great with Dion.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Now reading that this injury on Embiid is similar to You Ming and Z.

I now have 0 idea what to do. I really like Exum and I think he could work great with Dion.

So do you just not like Parker or Wiggins?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by korme

Ahh, so I can put to rest for good my hope against hope that the Atl Hawks ditch their awful currents for their 80's design

I have that same dream for the Falcons.

[cartman]

I wonder how much Portland is going to have to give up in order to move up and draft Embiid.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Olajuwon is the exception that proves the rule. I'm not ready to put Embiid in Hall of Famer Olajuwon's company just yet.

Also, Embiid was way behind in his skills learning even as a senior in high school. I remember the scouting reports on him because UCLA (the college I follow) was looking at him closely before he chose Kansas. He's just flat behind the curve, and that's on top of any issues with when he actually started playing the game.

I think it's just nutty to go with him over the other players available near the top of the board.

Tim Duncan didn't play basketball until his freshman year of high school. Anthony Davis has been a post player/taller than 6'3" for like 4 years of his life to this point. I specifically stated that it didn't necessarily mean he was their equal (is a number one pick a bust if he falls short of being one of the top 10-15 players of all time?). In this particular case, the injury history looks serious enough - when combined with the fact that players like Wiggins and Parker are not slouches - to make that moot.

It's not at all uncommon for explosive and fluid 6'10+ players who are serious about working hard to improve exponentially - it's just hard to come across them in the first place. The curve Embiid was on took him from a high school junior who might have been one of the top 50 or so recruits to to a top 5-10 recruit by the end of his senior year to a potential first overall pick the next season; whatever curve that puts him ahead or behind, that's a hell of a curve to be on.

Per minute, his numbers are not at all dissimilar to what Olajuwon/Duncan/Davis put up their freshman seasons. If Duncan had entered the draft in 1994, anyone with a high lottery pick who passed on him citing that he looks behind in his development because he'd only been playing for five years would not be long for a job. It's entirely fair to shy away if you've seen the medical reports and you don't want to draft another Sam Bowie/Greg Oden, but guys that big and athletic who improved that much from age 16-19 have an outstanding track record of continuing to develop skill-wise.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Rumors circulating that the Warriors are now including Klay Thompson in Kevin Love trade talks. Word is Love + Kevin Martin for Lee and Klay.

Not sure that actually makes the Warriors better - you lose a ton of defense at the 2 spot there, and Steph is already a minus defender.

[Izulde]

Those Hornets jerseys look a little bland IMO.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Rumors circulating that the Warriors are now including Klay Thompson in Kevin Love trade talks. Word is Love + Kevin Martin for Lee and Klay.

Not sure that actually makes the Warriors better - you lose a ton of defense at the 2 spot there, and Steph is already a minus defender.

Love is a top 10 player and Martin was actually better than Klay last year. They also don't have to deal with overpaying Klay at the end of the season. It'd be a great trade for Golden State.

[stevew]

Cavs supposedly down to Lue vs Blatt.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

...Martin was actually better than Klay last year...

I am admittedly not the biggest basketball fan in the world, but this seems mind-boggling to me. Klay is top 20 in points scored, one of the best three point shooters in the game and plays exceptional defense. Kevin Martin...is someone I have hardly heard about. Martin had fewer blocks, steals and rebounds than Thompson, far fewer points, and shot at a lower percentage both from the field and from beyond the arc than Thompson.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by korme

Ahh, so I can put to rest for good my hope against hope that the Atl Hawks ditch their awful currents for their 80's design

The 80's design is not coming back but the 80's logo is coming back with a more modern looking bird in the circle logo.

Kings retro-crown is coming back. Celtics secondary logo is horrible (think NBA logo man with the pipe smoking celtic logo). Rockets have new "HR" logo. 76ers have a new "Ben Franklin" who looks like he is driving to the rim logo coming out next season. Warriors have 2 new logos coming out and they both look like crap but one is on a black basketball so maybe they have a new third jersey coming out with black in it. I don't remember seeing that color on any jersey in the book (maybe it was TBA).

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by stevew

Cavs supposedly down to Lue vs Blatt.

Blatt with the offer.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I am admittedly not the biggest basketball fan in the world, but this seems mind-boggling to me. Klay is top 20 in points scored, one of the best three point shooters in the game and plays exceptional defense. Kevin Martin...is someone I have hardly heard about. Martin had fewer blocks, steals and rebounds than Thompson, far fewer points, and shot at a lower percentage both from the field and from beyond the arc than Thompson.

Defensively Klay comes out ahead of Martin. But offensively Martin was a better player last year. He scored more efficiently.

Klay is a really good shooter but that's all he does. He doesn't get to the line at all. He doesn't pass the ball. He doesn't rebound either. He's a good player still and only 24, but he's going to be getting a 10-figure a year deal in another year which doesn't make him as valuable as he is now.

[nol]

That trade somehow manages to be terrible for both teams. The Warriors would become so bad at defense as to not be a serious contender and the Wolves wouldn't get any better even on the off chance Klay Thompson actually wanted to be there and played well.

If I were trading Love, it'd be for #1 or bust. There are some more interesting offers for that pick: Utah is desperate to move up for Parker and is allegedly offering the #5 and Derrick Favors.

[stevew]

I think I take Favors and #5 but only if I can use #5 and other stuff to get Kevin Love(probably can't)

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by nol

That trade somehow manages to be terrible for both teams. The Warriors would become so bad at defense as to not be a serious contender and the Wolves wouldn't get any better even on the off chance Klay Thompson actually wanted to be there and played well.

If I were trading Love, it'd be for #1 or bust. There are some more interesting offers for that pick: Utah is desperate to move up for Parker and is allegedly offering the #5 and Derrick Favors.

Why would the Warriors become worse on defense? They also still have two exceptional defenders in Bogut and Iguodala.

[nol]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why would the Warriors become worse on defense? They also still have two exceptional defenders in Bogut and Iguodala.

When you trade a good defender for a bad defender, you become worse at defense. Klay Thompson is a good defender. Kevin Martin is a bad defender.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by nol

When you trade a good defender for a bad defender, you become worse at defense. Klay Thompson is a good defender. Kevin Martin is a bad defender.

Lee is a worse defender than Love. Love helps you on the defensive glass. And him improving the effeciency of the offense improves the defense.

I just don't see how this move dramatically alters the Warriors defense. You are claiming that it will make the Warriors so bad on defense they can't compete. I see it as a wash, especially when Thompson doesn't guard top wings.

[korme]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

The 80's design is not coming back but the 80's logo is coming back with a more modern looking bird in the circle logo.

Kings retro-crown is coming back. Celtics secondary logo is horrible (think NBA logo man with the pipe smoking celtic logo). Rockets have new "HR" logo. 76ers have a new "Ben Franklin" who looks like he is driving to the rim logo coming out next season. Warriors have 2 new logos coming out and they both look like crap but one is on a black basketball so maybe they have a new third jersey coming out with black in it. I don't remember seeing that color on any jersey in the book (maybe it was TBA).

I want your insider knowledge.

Are these all being prepared for '14-15?

[nol]

Thompson guards top point guards instead of Curry, and there are plenty more of those to defend than there are wings. Think that might be a problem in a conference that accounted for all six of the All-NBA guards? Lee was actually decent this year - he and Love are both just kind of average.

The best offensive players in the league are good enough to get the better of the best individual defenders. Chris Paul was 1st team all-defense and still had trouble slowing Russell Westbrook down in the playoffs (before he had to move over and try to guard Durant). Nobody's good enough to lock down the best scorers one-on-one and also cover a bunch of their teammmates' mistakes. Even someone like Roy Hibbert playing his best basketball is able to do what he does because Indiana's perimeter defenders are good enough that even when they get beat, they don't often allow someone to have a full head of steam when driving to the rim.

In the playoffs, you don't get to say "We have two plus defenders, two minus defenders, and one neutral defender, so it all evens out," when your top defender is going to have enough problems guarding Blake Griffin or Kevin Durant or whomever.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Defensively Klay comes out ahead of Martin. But offensively Martin was a better player last year. He scored more efficiently.

Klay is a really good shooter but that's all he does. He doesn't get to the line at all. He doesn't pass the ball. He doesn't rebound either. He's a good player still and only 24, but he's going to be getting a 10-figure a year deal in another year which doesn't make him as valuable as he is now.

I've been meaning to bone up on advanced NBA stats for a while now, it seems like they've got some really great metrics and things developing. Maybe this will be the impetus for that.

I agree with you that Klay doesn't do much to create his own shot - I know at one point last year he was the most assisted player in the entire NBA, with something like 90+% of his shots coming from an assist of another player. That being said, Klay is light years ahead of Martin on defense, and unless Martin is considerably better on offense (I doubt that seriously), there's no way he's even a comparable player, let alone a better player. Especially on a team that has a serious problem with back court defense if he's gone.

[Groundhog]

Really like those Hornets unis.

Sucks for Embiid, but to be honest I was nervous before the injury, so at least this (hopefully) completely puts him out of the picture there. Parker or Wiggins now with Exum a darkhorse. Would love to cheer for another Aussie PG on the Cavs, but I think the smart pick is Parker, as far as 'best available' goes.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Defensively Klay comes out ahead of Martin. But offensively Martin was a better player last year. He scored more efficiently.

Klay is a really good shooter but that's all he does. He doesn't get to the line at all. He doesn't pass the ball. He doesn't rebound either. He's a good player still and only 24, but he's going to be getting a 10-figure a year deal in another year which doesn't make him as valuable as he is now.

Klay was guarding the best opponent scoring guard (usually PG) so Curry could rest. Iggy got their best left SG/SF and Bogut the C. Iggy can't really guard quick PGs now, and Curry is useless as well. Martin had Brewer to guard the best scorer and got hidden like Curry. I think this is a solid trade overall (I think Love is light years ahead of Lee), but you will now need Iggy to stay healthy and potentially make up for two "hide defenders" in Martin and Curry.

Still, the main reason I like this trade is Klay is going to get massively overpaid in the next year. I'd rather pay Love the Max plus a $5-7 mil SG than have that same money in Klay and Lee.

[stevew]

Blatt to the Cavs, official.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I've been meaning to bone up on advanced NBA stats for a while now, it seems like they've got some really great metrics and things developing. Maybe this will be the impetus for that.

I agree with you that Klay doesn't do much to create his own shot - I know at one point last year he was the most assisted player in the entire NBA, with something like 90+% of his shots coming from an assist of another player. That being said, Klay is light years ahead of Martin on defense, and unless Martin is considerably better on offense (I doubt that seriously), there's no way he's even a comparable player, let alone a better player. Especially on a team that has a serious problem with back court defense if he's gone.

I just see the move as a huge positive. Klay is better than Martin defensively. But Martin was better than Klay offensively. Love is better than Lee defensively and offensively.

I don't see the Warriors defense collapsing after this trade. They'll score more efficiently and rebound better defensively which will help their defense a lot. I guess I'd view it as a wash defensively and a huge upgrade offensively.

[Arles]

The best way to defend it is Martin+Love@Max > Lee+Klay@big contract

[RainMaker]

Even if you don't put in contracts, Love+Martin is better than Lee+Klay.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Even if you don't put in contracts, Love+Martin is better than Lee+Klay.

Exactly. Which is why Minnesota wants--and should get--more.

[nol]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Even if you don't put in contracts, Love+Martin is better than Lee+Klay.

Yes, in fantasy basketball those two would definitely get you more points. But having a backcourt of two players you have to hide on the other team's worst perimeter player is tough to pull off when your potential playoff matchups include Paul, Harden, Westbrook, Lillard, Parker, etc. Not to mention that Kevin Martin wouldn't be doing that much more on offense than Klay Thompson would as the third option on a team with Curry and Love.

Of course the trade is "better" for Golden State - it's their own crappy offer they made in the first place! Minnesota's not sitting around saying "I hope we can get a worse version of the star we're trading and a SG who will play for one year before signing elsewhere. Please say yes!"

[Arles]

If I were Golden State, I would try to work a third team to send Kevin Martin and Harrison Barnes for a better defending 2-guard who can hit 3s. Ie, see if you can move Martin and Barnes to Orlando for Afflalo.

[nol]

That wouldn't be good for Orlando because they already have their own young wing players in Harris and Harkless, so getting another one wouldn't be worth the downgrade from Martin to Afflalo.

Joel Embiid is looking at 4-6 months of recovery after surgery. This really sucks for somebody whose limited experience was supposed to be a plus when it comes to avoiding chronic injuries.

[korme]

I wonder if Embiid will take a Nerlens Noel esque drop

[whomario]

Isaiah Austin of Baylor (who declared for this draft) has to immediately stop playing basketball, apparently his eye condition (he was legally blind on one eye) was not enough bad luck, now diagnosed with sth called "Marfan-Syndrome". So he went from likely first rounder to no nba career in a year, gotta feel bad for him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Marfan-syndrome is the whole "long limbs and really tall" thing right?

Yup.

Edit: was thinking it was the thing that Andre the Giant had, but that was something else.

[nol]

Yes, it's primarily a disorder associated with connective tissue. Abe Lincoln might have possibly had it.

It's actually kind of surprising more NBA players haven't been diagnosed with it because one of the primary diagnostics for Marfan is a wingspan-to-height ratio above a certain value, and that value is less than the ratio for the average NBA player.

edit: the scary thing is this must have been something that was only caught in pre-draft physicals. If he hadn't left early, would he have just played for an extra year or two with his condition?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by nol

Yes, it's primarily a disorder associated with connective tissue. Abe Lincoln might have possibly had it.

It's actually kind of surprising more NBA players haven't been diagnosed with it because one of the primary diagnostics for Marfan is a wingspan-to-height ratio above a certain value, and that value is less than the ratio for the average NBA player.

wikipedia article i saw said that lincoln is now believed to have had something else.

[nol]

Originally Posted by korme

I wonder if Embiid will take a Nerlens Noel esque drop

I don't think he'd drop any more than wherever Noel was picked last year (was it sixth?). All the quotes like "I wouldn't even think about taking him if I had a top ten pick" are obviously from teams drafting just outside the top ten. I wouldn't be that surprised if he still went in the top three just because everything is so innundated with BS at this point.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by korme

I want your insider knowledge.

Are these all being prepared for '14-15?

All these will be used in 14-15 as "Secondary logos". The Warriors seem to have a new one every season that goes over horribly just like these two will. I'm horribly confused by the black basketball since it has SF as the initials in the logo. I haven't seen anything that suggest they will have a black jersey next season.

If I had to rank the new ones coming out it would easily be the Hawks @ #1. They are the only ones I've seen made public so far even though everyone was suppose to release them already. I could see them changing to this as primary in the near future.

http://content.sportslogos.net/news/...go-Compare.png

76ers logo is just an update of the logo on the left when you really look at it.

http://www.hatland.com/closeup.cfm/hats,0,5420.html

Kings is a cleaned up version of this old one.

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/240/full/833.gif

I can't find any other examples that are close for the other teams so you have to wait until they release it or Nov 1st when it's supposedly in use.

If you only knew the amount of images that hit my in box. Makes me wish I had kept track of all of them.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Arles

If I were Golden State, I would try to work a third team to send Kevin Martin and Harrison Barnes for a better defending 2-guard who can hit 3s. Ie, see if you can move Martin and Barnes to Orlando for Afflalo.

Rumor has it the Lakers want Klay for the #7 pick. Lots of rumors out there lately.

Kerr has come out and said that he's not in favor of getting rid of Klay, which is a nice diplomatic move that should help keep him a little happier if he stays.