All things about Cars, Trucks & SUVs

[Edward64]

I've never considered the Prius because of how weird it looks. I waited 2 years (?) for the normal looking Camry Hybrid (2007) to come out and bought that. The 2023 model looks good to me (rear is still a little weird though). The 2022 is 56mpg which is pretty darn good and plenty for me.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...prius-preview/



More pics here

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...prius-preview/

[stevew]

Has anyone road tripped a Tesla on the day before thanksgiving? Giving the temperature it’s probably a no just based on reduced range. I’d be going thru the middle of WVA thru to NE Tennessee. I hit a deer a few weeks ago in my Bolt EUV so I have a rental. If it’s viable I’d rather pile miles onto it vs my wife’s SUV. I can take an hour or so combined charging time, but I don’t wanna be waiting to sit and charge.

[sovereignstar v2]

Fantastic.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/11/23/...-feature-price

[GrantDawg]

I can see it now. You want your sound system to work? $800 a year. Want to use that trunk space? $900 a year. That is one way automakers can get getting paid for cars after they are sold.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Edward64]

Even if I could afford it and the maintenance, way too impractical for me. I'd go with the Iron Man Audi R8. But still think its cool looking.

Lamborghini officially revealed the slightly lifted, rally-inspired Huracán Sterrato this week. We’re not convinced anyone’s ever actually going to off road one, but it’s still kind of cool. After all, it still has a 610-hp V10 and can hit 60 mph in the low-three-second range.

[Edward64]

I do hope this is successful and encourages competitors to do the same.


Tesla delivers its first electric Semi trucks promising 500 miles of range | CNN Business

Tesla made the first deliveries of its Semi truck to customers Thursday evening, five years after the heavy-duty hauler was first unveiled. The event included two truck cabs decked out in the livery of Pepsi and Frito-Lay, PepsiCo’s snack foods subsidiary.

The fully electric semi truck features an unusual design in which the driver sits in the center of the cab rather than on one side. Tesla has boasted of the truck’s performance — saying it accelerates much more quickly, even with a full load, than traditional diesel-powered semi trucks. A video during the presentation showed, according to Tesla, a fully loaded Tesla Semi accelerating up a steep grade and passing other trucks.

Since it has no multi-geared transmission, as diesel trucks do, it’s also much easier to drive than other semi trucks, Musk said. The truck can drive 500 miles on a single charge, according to Tesla. It has three electric motors, one of which drives the truck most of the time while the other two are used mostly for acceleration and hard pulling. The truck can pull up to 82,000 pounds, Tesla claims.

I wasn't able to find out how much % of gas/diesel semis use as compared to total (e.g. how much will this save if we replace the old semis over 20-30 years). But I found this.

Why New Semi Trucks Are a Win for the Environment

Cutting that by 20 percent means a savings of 5.8 billion gallons of fuel (diesel, mainly), which, based on the EPA's estimate that the average passenger vehicle consumes nearly 500 gallons of fuel a year, is roughly the equivalent of 12 million cars off the road. Yes, it's fuzzy math, and passenger cars usually run on gas, not diesel, but that's still a massive savings. By 2050, the White House projects that current standards will save 10 billion gallons of fuel a year for trucks alone.

[GrantDawg]

How long does it take to charge?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

How long does it take to charge?

Longer than Trump.

[Edward64]

Good question

Supposedly 30 min with a mega charger for up to 80% which gives another 400 miles. If true, pretty damn good

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by stevew

Has anyone road tripped a Tesla on the day before thanksgiving? Giving the temperature it’s probably a no just based on reduced range. I’d be going thru the middle of WVA thru to NE Tennessee. I hit a deer a few weeks ago in my Bolt EUV so I have a rental. If it’s viable I’d rather pile miles onto it vs my wife’s SUV. I can take an hour or so combined charging time, but I don’t wanna be waiting to sit and charge.

So I guess the cold sapping batteries is a thing with all EVs? My neighbor across the street had an Audi Q4 this summer/fall and I talked to him about it around Halloween, and he said he loved it. He said it got about 240 miles per charge. Then, right after Christmas he's got a new SUV. I saw him this weekend out in his yard and asked where the Audi was, and he said the battery lost so much juice in the cold that he was barely getting 100 miles per charge, so he got rid of it.

If that's a thing, I won't be getting an EV any time soon. Hybrid, maybe, but not an EV.

[flere-imsaho]

We've noticed maybe a 20 mile difference in range with our Volvo in the winter. Could be a thing with Audi's implementation, I guess.

[Edward64]

I can't decide if this is gimmicky or pretty cool. I think both and I kinda like it.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/08/chec...ision-dee.html

What if the color of your car could change based on your mood or the weather?

That’s the idea — or, at least, one of the ideas— behind BMW’s new “i Vision Dee” concept car, a midsize electric sports sedan covered in futuristic panels that can change color on demand.

BMW describes it as the world’s first “color-changing” car. The Dee, which stands for “Digital Emotional Experience,” can cycle between 32 different colors, the company said in a press release on Thursday, while unveiling the car at the 2023 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So I guess the cold sapping batteries is a thing with all EVs? My neighbor across the street had an Audi Q4 this summer/fall and I talked to him about it around Halloween, and he said he loved it. He said it got about 240 miles per charge. Then, right after Christmas he's got a new SUV. I saw him this weekend out in his yard and asked where the Audi was, and he said the battery lost so much juice in the cold that he was barely getting 100 miles per charge, so he got rid of it.

If that's a thing, I won't be getting an EV any time soon. Hybrid, maybe, but not an EV.

It’s trash like that from my experiences. Wanna go 70mph with the heat on? Getting fuckall for range.

[Ksyrup]

That's a pretty expensive mood ring.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That's a pretty expensive mood ring.

But a cool mood ring.

[Lathum]

I can change the color of the accent lights inside my BMW but this may be taking it a bit too far.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

We've noticed maybe a 20 mile difference in range with our Volvo in the winter. Could be a thing with Audi's implementation, I guess.

It’s a thing for all EVs. That’s a very typical drop in range for cold weather.

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, I know, I was just saying that we haven't seen a big drop, functionally, with our Volvo. I mean I guess 20 miles is just under 10% over the overall stated range, but the vehicle is 100% used for jaunts around Chicagoland, so we're never in any trouble.

Also, regarding winter, one nice benefit of it being EV is that it's a lot heavier so it does pretty reasonably in snow (combined with all the electronic aids for slippery weather). The low profile tires it needs have been slow to come in winter versions, but it does about as well in snow as our Chrysler minivan (FWD) does with its Bridgestone Blizzaks.

Neither do as well as my tiny Honda Fit with a manual transmission & Michelin X-Ice winter tires, which continues to be hilarious.

[stevew]

I put 14” snow tires and wheels on the Fit I had and it was an absolute tank in the snow. Like beastly.

[Flasch186]

So I am forced to buy a new car. I'd like a used one. What are the more legit websites to look at to get bearings on what's heads and what's tails?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

So I am forced to buy a new car. I'd like a used one. What are the more legit websites to look at to get bearings on what's heads and what's tails?

What exactly are you looking for? Carmax is a good basis of market prices, Edmund's and Kelly's Blue Book can give reliability ratings and such.

[HomerSimpson98]

My advice is to bring your own lube

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

What exactly are you looking for? Carmax is a good basis of market prices, Edmund's and Kelly's Blue Book can give reliability ratings and such.

I'm thinking <$40K, sedan/midsize SUV. I like value meaning pack in as much value into the $40K as possible be it mileage or luxe etc.

[Edward64]

This is great news about a possible Tesla 2 @$22K

Still not sure I'd buy an affordable Tesla (quality ranks low) but have to believe a bunch of other auto companies will meet the challenge for <$25K prices. But considering how Tesla prices bounces up and down at the whim of Musk, wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be a <$35K car.

Model 2 priced at US$22,000 may look like smaller Model Y as Tesla plans for 2 million production rate at Giga Mexico - NotebookCheck.net News

Model 2 priced at US$22,000 may look like smaller Model Y as Tesla plans for 2 million production rate at Giga Mexico

Production of Tesla's cheapest Model 2 electric vehicle will reportedly be split between North America, Shanghai, and Giga Berlin, with initial preparation for 4 million units. The Model 2 may be similar to Model Y in design, claim insiders, just much smaller, and could cost 150,000 RMB (US$21,800).

Tesla is gunning for a 50% reduction of the Model 3's US$33,600 production cost estimate. With the recent drop in lithium carbonate prices and the fact that the Model 2 will be assembled in Tesla's most efficient Gigafactories, a sub-$17,000 production cost won't be hard to achieve. If Tesla indeed sells it for a US$22,000 or so starting price, that will keep its gross margin and the economies of scale can only widen it further as production ramps up.

The current supply chain rumor sources here note that the Model 2 production start is "at least a year away," so the announcement could happen as soon as 2023.

[Edward64]

I knew Tesla was #1 in the US, it didn't quite register how much ahead it was

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/04/gm-o...ils-tesla.html

Sales of passenger electric vehicles in the U.S.
In the first quarter of 2023

Tesla 161,630
GM 20,670
Hyundai/Kia 14,703
Volkswagen 14,196
Ford 10,866

I was wondering globally also and Tesla is #1 in BEV (fully electric) by far but comes in #2 behind a Chinese company that is BEV + PHEV (plug-in hybrid).

EV-Volumes - The Electric Vehicle World Sales Database

So the existential battle for Tesla is whether BEV or PHEV will win out in the next 5-10 years.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I knew Tesla was #1 in the US, it didn't quite register how much ahead it was

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/04/gm-o...ils-tesla.html


I was wondering globally also and Tesla is #1 in BEV (fully electric) by far but comes in #2 behind a Chinese company that is BEV + PHEV (plug-in hybrid).

EV-Volumes - The Electric Vehicle World Sales Database

So the existential battle for Tesla is whether BEV or PHEV will win out in the next 5-10 years.

I am pretty sure it's going to be BEV.

I understand the allure of PHEV (hybrid) vehicles, because it helps alleviate range anxiety and gives the consumer the security blanket/training wheels of a ICE engine that can kick in and give you more range, re-charge the battery some, and you know you can always fill it up just like you're used to doing.

The problem with hybrids is that they are expensive and complex to design and build. You're essentially creating two separate powertrains and all of the engineering, design and parts costs that come with it. The two powertrains, also, make the vehicle heavier, which reduces the range of the battery.

As a result, most OEMs have abandoned the hybrids (or will be) and are only going to be making pure BEVs.

Tesla has a huge lead and lots of advantages over traditional OEMs when it comes to BEVs. In addition to the brand recognition and consumer acceptance, they don't carry all of the legacy costs that the traditional OEMs carry. Tesla has only ever built electric vehicles and has designed its company - from its white collar employees down to its factory employees - to do that and that alone. They don't need to shift over from one style of vehicle (ICE) to a completely new one (EVs). They, also, don't have legacy dealerships to contend with. As a result, they have the combined advantages of: 1) being the first big mover; 2) strong brand recognition; 3) significantly lower costs.

As a result, despite the fact that there will be significant new entry and competition in the EV space in the next few years, Tesla still has a pretty strong advantage, particularly with respect to costs and price. They can reduce price to fight off new entrants and still maintain decent margins that their competitors won't be able to match.

It will be really interesting to see how it all plays out. Hopefully, poorly for Tesla!

[GrantDawg]

Those numbers will radically change in the next few years as the big manufacturers ramp up their EV production.

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[RainMaker]

I just bought a new car and found out the "remote starter" requires a one-time $330 fee through the app. Incredible.

[albionmoonlight]

We have a plug-in hybrid (Chevy Volt) which we really love. But I agree that pure EVs and pure ICE cars are the future for the reasons H_B explained.

Once chargers become more common and ranges become longer, range anxiety won't be enough of a problem to get people to go with the more complicated PHEVs.

Still glad that we have ours, though.

[Ksyrup]

And they deal with battery performance in cold weather, which I think I mentioned in a different thread a few months ago. The guy across the street got rid of his Audi EV because the range decreased so badly in the cold.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I just bought a new car and found out the "remote starter" requires a one-time $330 fee through the app. Incredible.

yeah it be like that sometimes.

it's ludicrous

[Flasch186]

I ended up buying a Toyota Avalon limited Hybrid and I like seeing the 41.5mpg and no need to charge anything. I guess it's my middle step before eventually buying the next fully electric/hydrogen car in the future. THB I don't love the car but I drove my last Honda Accord since 2012 so there's that.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And they deal with battery performance in cold weather, which I think I mentioned in a different thread a few months ago. The guy across the street got rid of his Audi EV because the range decreased so badly in the cold.

20-40% is pretty significant.

https://www.cars.com/articles/how-we...eather-459914/

Estimates vary, but according to a study from AAA, EVs can lose about 40% of their range when the temperature drops from 75 degrees to 20 degrees Fahrenheit. The range dip is attributed to a couple of things, such as natural battery capacity loss in colder temperatures as well as the increased energy needed for heating the cabin. Using other climate features, such as the heated seats and heated steering wheel, also requires energy and cuts into a car’s range.

And also have to deal with normal battery degradation. Below said 2.3% per year but I read another article that said 1% per year. My iPhone 12 is around 85% health and I'm stressing about it.

For example, an EV with a rated range of 250 miles would have only 150 miles of range when it’s 20 degrees outside. And that’s for a new EV — used models will see less range since all rechargeable batteries naturally lose capacity with use and time. According to Geotab, a Las Vegas-based company that tracks battery health in many EVs, average battery degradation is around 2.3% per year.

And the price ain't cheap to replace a battery.

Anywhere around $13,000-$20,000 for Models S
At least $14,000 for a Model X premium SUV
At least $13,000 for a Model 3 entry-level sedan

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I ended up buying a Toyota Avalon limited Hybrid and I like seeing the 41.5mpg and no need to charge anything. I guess it's my middle step before eventually buying the next fully electric/hydrogen car in the future. THB I don't love the car but I drove my last Honda Accord since 2012 so there's that.

We just bought a Toyota Sienna Hybrid. Out 2011 Sienna was a horrible gas guzzler, especially the last couple of years.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I ended up buying a Toyota Avalon limited Hybrid and I like seeing the 41.5mpg and no need to charge anything. I guess it's my middle step before eventually buying the next fully electric/hydrogen car in the future. THB I don't love the car but I drove my last Honda Accord since 2012 so there's that.

Same with us as we got a Toyota RAV limited Hybrid and love it. My wife has it now and I am trading in my Mazda CX-30 for either another RAV Hybrid or a Hyundai Tucson Hybrid that is turbocharged. I would love to go all EV but range and the cost for a SUV stops that for now. The cost for BEV is double the cost it seems for a hybrid. Once the cost comes down I plan to move to BEV.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Same with us as we got a Toyota RAV limited Hybrid and love it. My wife has it now and I am trading in my Mazda CX-30 for either another RAV Hybrid or a Hyundai Tucson Hybrid that is turbocharged. I would love to go all EV but range and the cost for a SUV stops that for now. The cost for BEV is double the cost it seems for a hybrid. Once the cost comes down I plan to move to BEV.

Our van is old, and I am just hoping it lasts another few years before we have to replace it. I think that the prices and quality of BEVs will be getting a lot better year after year for the foreseeable future.

[Honolulu_Blue]

So many foreign cars...

If you fellas are ever interested in a quality GM vehicle, let me know. I can likely get a discount. I know a guy!



(That guy is me. #IWorkForGM)

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

So many foreign cars...

If you fellas are ever interested in a quality GM vehicle, let me know. I can likely get a discount. I know a guy!



(That guy is me. #IWorkForGM)

I'm happy not having a car payment now and, frankly, keeping my car in the garage much of the time as we both work from home right now. But our Ford Fusion will eventually die (probably sooner rather than later). However, the number of available compact and mid-size cars available from American manufacturers is pretty low, sadly. IIRC, Ford isn't even making cars anymore (at least non-sports cars).

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm happy not having a car payment now and, frankly, keeping my car in the garage much of the time as we both work from home right now. But our Ford Fusion will eventually die (probably sooner rather than later). However, the number of available compact and mid-size cars available from American manufacturers is pretty low, sadly. IIRC, Ford isn't even making cars anymore (at least non-sports cars).

SI

Yeah. U.S. OEMs are pretty much out of the traditional ICE car business - mid-size, compact, etc. It's unfortunate. I loved the few Impalas I drove.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Yeah. U.S. OEMs are pretty much out of the traditional ICE car business - mid-size, compact, etc. It's unfortunate. I loved the few Impalas I drove.

That is such a weird decision. My wife and I both dislike SUV's, and she is definitely not ever buying a truck or sports car for herself.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

So many foreign cars...

If you fellas are ever interested in a quality GM vehicle, let me know. I can likely get a discount. I know a guy!



(That guy is me. #IWorkForGM)

Were you the one that gave me the friends and family number that we bought a Ford Fusion with 10 years ago?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Were you the one that gave me the friends and family number that we bought a Ford Fusion with 10 years ago?

Probably not, since I’ve never worked for Ford. They are my cross town rivals! I’d happily get you a friend and family discount on some sweet ass Chevy, GMC, Buick or Cadillac!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That is such a weird decision. My wife and I both dislike SUV's, and she is definitely not ever buying a truck or sports car for herself.

I agree. You are definitely losing a number of customers who either don’t want a SUV or truck or those who can’t quite afford them and are ceding those customers to other OEMs. I think it’s particularly an issue when it comes to first time buyers. In some cases they either can’t afford or don’t want a SUV, so they go sedan or compact. If they’re happy with that first car that can create brand loyalty that can last a long, long time.

The reason for dropping those vehicles is that the margins on them stunk and they just weren’t that popular. So, you had an entire line of vehicles with small sales and small margins that carried with them all the development, design, engineering, supply and manufacturing costs of better selling, higher margin vehicles. So, when it was clear that the transformation from ICE to EVs was on the horizon, the call was made to cut those vehicles out to save costs needed to start the investments for EVs and to focus on trucks and SUVs, the vehicles the majority of folks want and have better margins.

[stevew]

It’s finally warm enough that I have been seeing 50+mpg out of my Camry Hybrid. The LE trim is pretty basic but it has smaller cheaper tires and gets 4-7mpg more than the nicer ones. Given all the potholes I don’t want a car that has very expensive tires.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

So many foreign cars...

If you fellas are ever interested in a quality GM vehicle, let me know. I can likely get a discount. I know a guy!



(That guy is me. #IWorkForGM)

Frankly I have not had good luck with American makers. Have had Mazdas for years and we loved them but their lack of electrified options moved us recently to Toyota hybrids. I also have had great results with Hyundais. On the other hand, I had a Jeep Cherokee that was a complete piece of junk and dumped it after a year due to tons of mechanical problems.

[Edward64]

Great news if doable.

I do sympathize with auto manufacturers that need to redo their car designs & offerings, and re-work new assembly lines. Ten years isn't far away. But they've been moving towards this direction for a while now, so good to have an official target. Not too long ago they were complaining about increased gas mileage targets.

Article didn't mention the gas import reduction/savings. I'd like to know the projections.

Uber CEO Became Undercover Boss in Used Tesla, Surprised by Rude Riders

The Environmental Protection Agency is preparing to announce significant limits on tailpipe emissions this week that would require as much as 67% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. by 2032 to be all-electric cars, according to a report by The New York Times Saturday.

EPA Administrator Michael Regan is expected to make the announcement in Detroit on Wednesday. The proposed limits would be the U.S.′ most aggressive climate regulations to date, and they would create a host of challenges for automakers.

Under the proposed limits, electric cars will represent between 54% and 60% of new cars sold in the U.S. by 2030, and between 64% to 67% of new cars by 2032, the Times report said. These figures are ambitious, as just 5.8% of cars sold in 2022 were electric, up from 3.2% in 2021, according to a report by Cox Automotive.

[stevew]

Ran into an idiot ranting about Tesla not putting “alternators in the wheels” today. Like you can’t just create energy out of nothing, morons. Claimed it was a conspiracy to get you to buy more energy from turbo charging stations.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Galaril

On the other hand, I had a Jeep Cherokee that was a complete piece of junk and dumped it after a year due to tons of mechanical problems.

In fairness, Jeeps are pieces of shit for the most part. I'm a former jeep owner, I work on a military base with a ton of jeep owners, and most will admit they're shit. They just tend to be fun to drive if you're looking for a very specific type of vehicle.

I got the extended warranty on my last jeep and it more than paid for itself many times over. Even though it didn't cost me much out of pocket, it had so many problems that my wife banned me from getting another.

[Ksyrup]

We rode in a Lyft with a guy who had a Grand Cherokee. I asked him what he thought of it and he spent the entire 30 minutes talking about what a piece of shit it was. But he had a brother who worked at a dealership and got him him a deal on another SUV to drive while that one was in the shop 75% of the time he owned it. I was thankful it didn't break down on our ride.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by stevew

Ran into an idiot ranting about Tesla not putting “alternators in the wheels” today. Like you can’t just create energy out of nothing, morons. Claimed it was a conspiracy to get you to buy more energy from turbo charging stations.

Ok, you are going to have to explain it to me like I am five. Prius and other hybrids have alternators on their wheels. They regenerate the battery through braking (at least that was my understanding). Why can't you do that with EV's? It is just recapturing some of the energy created by moving.