New York City's Proposed Ban On Big Soda

[molson]

Originally Posted by flounder

What amazes me about these debates is that everyone always assumes that their side is going to be the only one using these powers.

For example, our health care system spends billions of dollars dealing with the effects of HIV infection. One of the greatest risk factors for HIV infection is male homosexual sex. Clearly, we have no choice but to ban male homosexual sex. Nothing against you gay people. It's just the health care costs. Honest.

Society and the law feel more strongly about some activities than others though, it's just a matter of where it falls on the scale. We could probably benefit society by strictly regulating who can reproduce and how many kids they can have, but we wouldn't accept that. On the other hand, most people find seatbelt laws to be a pretty limited intrusion for the benefits it provides society as a whole. Male homosexual sex is moving further up the scale of culturally protected activities all the time. I'm not sure exactly where soda falls, but it's definitely higher up than seatbells and lower than homosexual sex. Almost everything impacts society in some way, and direct v. indirect impact isn't a foolproof way of evaluating government interference either. There's all kinds of say, finance regulations, or environmental regulations that don't really impact you directly, you'll just deal with the indirect impacts of the regulation or lack of regulation.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i try not to look at it politically and imagine i was playing sim city

health advisor: 'mayor, your sims are too fat!'

( ) mandatory cpr training for all sims
( ) increase youth sports funding
(x) ban large soft drinks

[flounder]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm not sure exactly where soda falls, but it's definitely higher up than seatbells and lower than homosexual sex.

Are you sure about that? I'll bet there are many areas where a proposition to ban homosexual sex would receive a lot more votes than a proposition to ban soda. There are probably at least a few areas where bans on things like mixed-race marriage and integrated schools would poll higher than a ban on soda.

[Logan]

In that hypothetical world I think those bans would be much easier to enforce versus something done in private.

[molson]

Originally Posted by flounder

Are you sure about that? I'll bet there are many areas where a proposition to ban homosexual sex would receive a lot more votes than a proposition to ban soda. There are probably at least a few areas where bans on things like mixed-race marriage and integrated schools would poll higher than a ban on soda.

True, I guess here's cultural feelings AND legal protections. No state or city can legally ban homosexual sex, though they can ban or heavily regulate soda.

[spleen1015]

They'll be able to ban homosexual sex if it is proven to cause diabetes.

[Logan]

Unlikely...gay guys are usually in pretty good shape.

[panerd]

Health panel talks about wider food ban - New York News | New York Breaking News | NYC Headlines

MYFOXNY.COM - The board hand-picked by Mayor Michael Bloomberg that must approve his ban of selling large sugar-filled drinks at restaurants might be looking at other targets.

The New York City Board of Health showed support for limiting sizes of sugary drinks at a Tuesday meeting in Queens. They agreed to start the process to formalize the large-drink ban by agreeing to start a six-week public comment period.

At the meeting, some of the members of board said they should be considering other limits on high-calorie foods.

One member, Bruce Vladeck, thinks limiting the sizes for movie theater popcorn should be considered.

"The popcorn isn't a whole lot better than the soda," Vladeck said.

Another board member thinks milk drinks should fall under the size limits.

"There are certainly milkshakes and milk-coffee beverages that have monstrous amounts of calories," said board member Dr. Joel Forman.

[flounder]

This might be what finally puts an end to this. When they were just going to keep the poors from drinking soda it was fine, but banning Frappuccinos? This aggression will not stand, man!

[Coffee Warlord]

Ah, smoking is not good for you, and it's been deemed that anything not good for you is bad; hence, illegal. Alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, meat...

Are you shitting me?

John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.

What the hell is that?

John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.

...Bad language, chocolate, gasoline, uneducational toys and anything spicy. Abortion is also illegal, but then again so is pregnancy if you don't have a licence.

[JediKooter]

They can have my buttered popcorn when they pry it out of my cold dead hands...

[flounder]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

...Bad language, chocolate, gasoline, uneducational toys and anything spicy. Abortion is also illegal, but then again so is pregnancy if you don't have a licence.

Anything that is not forbidden will be mandatory.

[Noop]

I knew this would happen. You got to fight them for the first minor offense it is usually a pretext for them to go after something else.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Ah, smoking is not good for you, and it's been deemed that anything not good for you is bad; hence, illegal. Alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, meat...

Are you shitting me?

John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.

What the hell is that?

John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.

...Bad language, chocolate, gasoline, uneducational toys and anything spicy. Abortion is also illegal, but then again so is pregnancy if you don't have a licence.

Fantastic movie reference that my kids would not have gotten. Good work.

[JediKooter]

You mean they don't know the 3 Sea Shells?

[Drake]

Two things:

1. Wesley Snipes
2. Sylvester Stallone

There's no plausible scenario I can come up with that would convince kids between the ages of 14 and 21 that I wasn't full of shit when I said, "No, it's awesome! It's a riff on Aldous Huxley! Only with guns! And Denis Leary!"

They'd go live with their mother, and I wouldn't blame them.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

more good news

Well, Chicago isn’t alone anymore. Hizzoner Michael Bloomberg in New York has decided to do his own version of the Chicago infrastructure bake sale; the city announced that it is putting up nearly 90,000 parking meters for lease. They’re expecting to get over $11 billion in upfront money from the deal, which is great news if you’re Mike Bloomberg, who gets to use that money to patch current budget holes instead of making tough cuts or raising taxes. The news is less awesome for the next half-dozen New York City mayors, or for the citizens of New York, who now will get to spend most of the 21st century grappling with its increasingly monstrous deficits with a major tributary from the city’s revenue stream shut off.

A New York parking meter deal, like the Chicago deal, would be a perfect example of the deeply cynical short-term thinking of many American politicians these days. These deals involve a sitting executive selling off a valuable piece of city property at a steep discount to private financial interests (often, to friends or campaign contributors), in order to solve a current cash flow problem that, surprise, surprise, will still be there the year after you finish spending the proceeds of your sale.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

more good news

These shady fucking deals shouldn't be allowed. Should never have been allowed in the first place, and I wonder if there's some way they could be legally overturned?

[JediKooter]

Chicago! No wonder Al Capone loved that place.

[Fidatelo]

I've noticed my city doing stuff like this under the current mayor. My favorite was the downtown parkade they sold because it needed a few million in repairs and "we are not in the business of running parking lots". So what if the thing just rakes in cash with (repairs not withstanding) very little overhead? So they sold it off for some quick cash and one less immediate expense. Idiots.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

strange days. i fully expect our children to murder us.

[SteveMax58]

You all need to be kept alive for as many seconds as possible so that we can keep feeding the matrix. Not to mention...sugars cause power spikes on the matrix.

[molson]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

strange days. i fully expect our children to murder us.

All we have to do is come up with some catchy nickname for our generation that ignores all the damage we caused. Then everyone will honor us and Tom Brokaw will sell lots of books.

[Kodos]

The Samaritans!

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

the sweatpants generation. no belt tightening required.

[JediKooter]

Who are the dumb ones though? The voters or the politicians?

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i'd call it a feedback loop of corruption and retardation

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Who are the dumb ones though? The voters or the politicians?

Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?

The politicians are easily scared, but, they'll be back...and in greater numbers.

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by molson

I agree with you in theory, and in this case, but what about the fact that the health of people in our society impacts everyone through insurance costs and care availability.? And what if we go to the next level, let's say New York or even NYC decides to provide universal health care that everyone's paying for. If I'm a voter or a legislator or a mayor at that local level, I can see trying to either force people to be more healthy, or maybe excluding people from the pool if they they live in such a way where they're a drain on the system. Now, banning certain sizes of soda in certain situations may not be an effective way to do that, but just talking the future, I can see more of these types of laws coming.

The moment we start charging big polluters for the costs they impose on others (wiki externality), or go after those who wantonly waste a public resource, well that is about when I think we should start thinking about those insidious soda drinkers.

Not to mention I think the 'whole insurance means the government has the right to run roughshod over your civil liberties' argument is weak. This is very indirect to be described as a some sacred public resource, especially when you have to make voluntary contributions of serious money to make use of it in most cases (the only thing arguably public is emergency room, and I'd be cool with attaching a debt system to the use of the emergency room where your life is filled with bills if you abuse it too much).

Get your noses out of everyone's elses business and focus on how to build your own and maybe we will get more jobs in this shit hole and people will stop wasting dollars as they argue over splitting pennies.

[flounder]

I thought this article about the NYC gay pride parade was amusing.

Among those participating were Mayor Bloomberg and City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who was accompanied by her wife. Quinn and her longtime partner were married last month.

Bloomberg had a message to the rest of America: "The government should get out of your personal life."

"New York is a place where you can do whatever you want to do," he said, before stepping off onto the parade route.

[JediKooter]

Pot calling kettle...pot calling kettle...come in kettle...

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

i try not to look at it politically and imagine i was playing sim city

health advisor: 'mayor, your sims are too fat!'

( ) mandatory cpr training for all sims
( ) increase youth sports funding
(x) ban large soft drinks

What I don't understand is 'why ban them'? ....

In the current economic climate banning costs money in enforcement etc. .... as such why not instead just put a tax on fattening products as a percentage of their overall cost.

This would dissuade people from consuming such large quantities of them and at the same time (at least) be revenue neutral, possibly revenue positive if punitive enough.

[sterlingice]

There is so much win in this thread and I'm only talking about the Demolition Man quotes on this page. But this is definitely my favorite as it had me trying to hide my laughter at work:

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

i try not to look at it politically and imagine i was playing sim city

health advisor: 'mayor, your sims are too fat!'

( ) mandatory cpr training for all sims
( ) increase youth sports funding
(x) ban large soft drinks

Also, don't get me started on the quickly increasing pace of privatizing important future revenue streams for quick bucks now.

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

What I don't understand is 'why ban them'? ....

In the current economic climate banning costs money in enforcement etc. .... as such why not instead just put a tax on fattening products as a percentage of their overall cost.

This would dissuade people from consuming such large quantities of them and at the same time (at least) be revenue neutral, possibly revenue positive if punitive enough.

A tax on sugar required approval from the NY State government. They refused to do so. So this is a creative way around that.

[RendeR]

One member, Bruce Vladeck, thinks limiting the sizes for movie theater popcorn should be considered.

"The popcorn isn't a whole lot better than the soda," Vladeck said.

This guy has no credibility what so ever.

I am a diabetic, my DOCTOR specifically told me to eat and I quote "All the popcorn you want as often as you want. its basically empty micro calorie snack food. put as much butter or seasoning you want on it. You won't get enough butter to hurt anything from even a large at the movie theater. if you want to avoid the butter put Parmesan cheese over it. All you like."

Direct orders from a physician to a diabetic patient.

These board members are clueless about the real issues facing people when it comes to weight and consumption.

If you're going to limit/ban sugary drinks you can't just hit soft drinks and milkshakes. you must also take in the quart sized lattes and other coffee offerings.

The whole thing in NYC is utterly ridiculous posturing and ignorance run amok among the mayoral lap lickers.

it will not help change anything with the possible exception of getting rid of the mayor come election time.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This guy has no credibility what so ever.

I am a diabetic, my DOCTOR specifically told me to eat and I quote "All the popcorn you want as often as you want. its basically empty micro calorie snack food. put as much butter or seasoning you want on it. You won't get enough butter to hurt anything from even a large at the movie theater. if you want to avoid the butter put Parmesan cheese over it. All you like."

Direct orders from a physician to a diabetic patient.

These board members are clueless about the real issues facing people when it comes to weight and consumption.

If you're going to limit/ban sugary drinks you can't just hit soft drinks and milkshakes. you must also take in the quart sized lattes and other coffee offerings.

The whole thing in NYC is utterly ridiculous posturing and ignorance run amok among the mayoral lap lickers.

it will not help change anything with the possible exception of getting rid of the mayor come election time.

Sounds like the dude is just parroting crap he's heard from people that think if you eat anything that is not 'natural', will kill you.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This guy has no credibility what so ever.

I am a diabetic, my DOCTOR specifically told me to eat and I quote "All the popcorn you want as often as you want. its basically empty micro calorie snack food. put as much butter or seasoning you want on it. You won't get enough butter to hurt anything from even a large at the movie theater. if you want to avoid the butter put Parmesan cheese over it. All you like."

Direct orders from a physician to a diabetic patient.

These board members are clueless about the real issues facing people when it comes to weight and consumption.

If you're going to limit/ban sugary drinks you can't just hit soft drinks and milkshakes. you must also take in the quart sized lattes and other coffee offerings.

The whole thing in NYC is utterly ridiculous posturing and ignorance run amok among the mayoral lap lickers.

it will not help change anything with the possible exception of getting rid of the mayor come election time.

Maybe it'll be like medical marijuana, you can get a card and get all of the popcorn you want

[RendeR]

Lulz, thanks abe, I needed that


Jedi: I think you may well be correct on that.

[Autumn]

I have to question not being able to get much butter on popcorn. I've watched people melt down a half a stick, a whole stick of butter to put on a batch or two of popcorn. I don't think doctors, or anyone, should underestimate how far we will go to make our food taste "good".

[Aylmar]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I have to question not being able to get much butter on popcorn. I've watched people melt down a half a stick, a whole stick of butter to put on a batch or two of popcorn. I don't think doctors, or anyone, should underestimate how far we will go to make our food taste "good".

Even if you melt down two sticks, only so much of it can cling to the popcorn when you're pouring it over. Now, if you drink the excess run-off (if it doesn't soak through the bag and onto your lap during the movie), that's another problem entirely. If you're going to do that, though, I recommend salting the hell out of it so the flavor in the butter really stands out...

[Autumn]

I'm talking about home popcorn, not movie popcorn. I've never seen any significant amount of excess butter at the bottom of the bowl afterward, so I don't think you're getting much runoff.

[MacroGuru]

This was officially passed the the NYC BOH today and if it succeeds will more than likely be adopted by the state and at that point of time...I might seriously consider where I live.

[JediKooter]

I heard it's going on the ballot in NYC for people to vote on. Maybe I read wrong though.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Drake

Fantastic movie reference that my kids would not have gotten. Good work.

Makes note to force errr persuade his sons to watch Demolition Man this weekend ....

(we're finishing watching the end of the Lord of the Rings trilogy tonight )

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

strange days. i fully expect our children to murder us.

I missed this quote the first time around in this thread

Now it gets a

SI

[Ksyrup]

Not Bill Walton‏@NotBillWalton
NY has banned over sized highly caffeinated concoctions full of food coloring and gas. So why is @realDonaldTrump still walking around?

[JonInMiddleGA]

My Way News - Judge strikes down NYC sugary-drinks size rule

[bhlloy]

So big companies like 7-Eleven would be immune from the ban? I'm shocked I tell you.

Good for the judge. Even if I didn't disagree with the law vehemently, not allowing mom and pop corner store to sell something that the multi-national corporation next door can sell is blatantly ridiculous and discriminatory

[Logan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

So big companies like 7-Eleven would be immune from the ban? I'm shocked I tell you.

Good for the judge. Even if I didn't disagree with the law vehemently, not allowing mom and pop corner store to sell something that the multi-national corporation next door can sell is blatantly ridiculous and discriminatory

The mom and pop shop would only not be able to sell it if it were a restaurant. A mom and pop convenience store, or bodega which is so popular in NYC, would still be able to.