2016 College Football Offseason (Non-recruiting thread)

[muns]

Originally Posted by molson

Those officers, at least at Baylor, are the same as any other Texas police officers and are a part of the criminal justice system. I'm just talking about the difference between university (non-police) investigations and discipline v. the criminal justice system.



And I think that's a good thing, and that this growing opinion to the contrary is backwards-thinking. It brings us back to a time where victims are ignored and have to just deal with it and see their rapists every day or drop out of college. Because criminal charges aren't always possible, it's a high standard, and it's ultimately up to the non-challengeable opinion of one prosecutor, or one officer.

But, it's a whole thing right now, bolstered by some high-profile lawsuits. I hang out at /r/law a lot, and this is one of the more contentious issues there at the moment. This is the kind of stuff that's cited there. And this is the rallying cry from progressive commentators like at Slate. Which makes it kind of scary - if there's both liberal and conservative voices that want campuses to ignore and defer this stuff, then it has real traction.

College rape: Campus sexual assault is a serious problem. But the efforts to protect women are infringing on the civil rights of men.

The police, not universities, should be handling rape accusations | The John William Pope Center for Higher Education Policy

For Students Accused Of Campus Rape, Legal Victories Win Back Rights : NPR

Several students win recent lawsuits against colleges that punished them for sexual assault

Police, not colleges, should investigate sex assaults on campus (David M. Rubin) | syracuse.com

But maybe the Baylor thing transcends all this and they were actively thwarting police investigations. And ya, there's Title IX, but this is more policy-driven, emotion-based reactions, that I guess include calls for changing the law or interpreting it differently.

Even if there is a law enforcement investigation, and it makes it to trial, there still needs to be a University response. They are 2 separate process that can occur at the same time, even if the police force is from the college. If people at Baylor are getting axed, I am sure they were trying to cover something up or like you said were actively doing things they weren't supposed to be doing.

Colleges have been screwing this up for years, and continue to screw it up today. It swings one way, and we react, and it swings the other way and we react again. No matter what we do we are going to be wrong. It's a no win situation for everybody working at the college level. 1 phone call, no matter if the college did anything wrong, has OCR at your doorstep demanding to be let in

[murrayyyyy]

Alleged text that Briles sent to his players...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjZZVT1UkAAgZOD.jpg

[muns]

Originally Posted by cartman

Here's the 'Findings of Fact' document.

http://www.baylor.edu/rtsv/doc.php/266596.pdf

Good god is this just awful.

Honestly though this is how most institutions are. Slowly coming around to what they need to do. Most smaller institutions do not have the money to be doing what they are supposed to be doing as the guidance (cough, cough) er.... I mean mandates, don't come with additional funding by the government.

[Subby]

In the last 15 years, Baylor men's sports have covered up a murder, domestic violence, and rape allegations.
Close the program.

— profloumoore (@loumoore12) May 26, 2016

[Kodos]

It really is sickening. Give Baylor sports the death penalty.

[HomerSimpson98]

yep. Baylor will soon be back to its rightful place in the pecking order.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

yep. Baylor will soon be back to its rightful place in the pecking order.

So the Big 12 needs 3 teams in expansion now? (look, someone had to throw it out there)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

It really is sickening. Give Baylor sports the death penalty.

I'd say the only significant difference in them & virtually everybody else is that they've ended up getting caught on it here.

If you think this doesn't happen frequently -- in terms of discouragement -- I'd say you're being very naive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by muns

We can't stay out of it even if we want to. I would want nothing more than to hand over any type of sexual related stuff over to the police and say have at it, however, title IX/ the federal government forces us to do things or risk funding. So, here I am investigating sexual assaults, sexual harassments, rapes, stalkings, relationship violence and anything else that falls under the title IX umbrella.

Staying out of it isn't even an option anymore. Once it gets reported, we are on notice.

Which is part of what makes Title IX one of the absolute worst, most irresponsible, most absurd pieces of legislation in U.S. history.

It's a fucking abomination given how it's tentacles ultimately spread.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'd say the only significant difference in them & virtually everybody else is that they've ended up getting caught on it here.

If you think this doesn't happen frequently -- in terms of discouragement -- I'd say you're being very naive.

I'm sure Baylor isn't the only place this goes on. But I'm fine with making an example of them.

[muns]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which is part of what makes Title IX one of the absolute worst, most irresponsible, most absurd pieces of legislation in U.S. history.

It's a fucking abomination given how it's tentacles ultimately spread.

While I wont disagree with some of what you say Jon, I will say that if colleges were doing what they were supposed to with sexual assault victims, there wouldn't be any need for OCR/ the feds to be ramming it down our throats.

This Baylor thing is another prime example of what we shouldn't be doing, and it just paints ALL colleges/universities with a broad brush and empowers the feds to say "See, told you so. Without us having to hold your hands you would still be pushing it all under the rug".

It's sad, and on a humanistic level, gut wrenching.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'm sure Baylor isn't the only place this goes on. But I'm fine with making an example of them.

Not sure that I am, and here's a very simplified explanation of why:
Duke lacrosse.

After that debacle, what program in their right mind wouldn't turn insular? Hell, given the Duke travesty, those that were already quite insular before it certainly seemed to have had good reason to be.

--------------

A separate, mostly, thought that I'm going to throw here rather than dola.

It's rather obvious that there's an awful lot of athletes on a LOT of college campuses that wouldn't be within 50 miles of a university otherwise. And there's not a shortage of sketchy characters (putting it mildly) among them. If that's what you're recruiting, what the hell do people expect to happen?

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

So the Big 12 needs 3 teams in expansion now? (look, someone had to throw it out there)

LOL. UT to the rescue!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

A separate, mostly, thought that I'm going to throw here rather than dola.

It's rather obvious that there's an awful lot of athletes on a LOT of college campuses that wouldn't be within 50 miles of a university otherwise. And there's not a shortage of sketchy characters (putting it mildly) among them. If that's what you're recruiting, what the hell do people expect to happen?

Bad things are going to happen. While that's not comforting, and that's not something anyone should be happy about, it's also not the real issue here with what's happened at Baylor. The issue is how they reacted to it, from Briles and his staff through the athletic department and up through the University administration.

[molson]

Originally Posted by muns

It swings one way, and we react, and it swings the other way and we react again. No matter what we do we are going to be wrong. It's a no win situation for everybody working at the college level. 1 phone call, no matter if the college did anything wrong, has OCR at your doorstep demanding to be let in

Yup, that was my main point, that this stuff seems like a nightmare to deal with from the outside. But, it looks like Baylor was so far outside what could even arguably be considered appropriate, so no controversy there.

[muns]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Bad things are going to happen. While that's not comforting, and that's not something anyone should be happy about, it's also not the real issue here with what's happened at Baylor. The issue is how they reacted to it, from Briles and his staff through the athletic department and up through the University administration.

I think there the other issue they are gonna get called on the carpet/ dinged for is recruiting transfers with shady pasts. They are supposed to be reviewing transfer students both in admissions and in athletics. Reading that document it basically says athletics was driving the ship which is a "no-no".

While OCR wont come right out and say it, the hint that everybody is supposed to be taking is you don't accept people who have either been thrown out of another school for sexual misconduct, or have transferred before a hearing has taken place. Most institutions require what's called a deans report for the admissions process which gives that institution access to an applicants previous conduct records along with other stuff. Baylor either failed to do it, or ignored what they found. Because of that decision people got hurt.

*This is where Jon's point of over reach takes place, because if the other college has a kangaroo court/ student conduct/ judicial system, an innocent student's educational rights get violated because they don't/ can't get into another school.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by muns

I think there the other issue they are gonna get called on the carpet/ dinged for is recruiting transfers with shady pasts. They are supposed to be reviewing transfer students both in admissions and in athletics. Reading that document it basically says athletics was driving the ship which is a "no-no".

Also not a good look that the scrubbing would prevent other schools from noticing the shady pasts of kids who were transferring out.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by muns

I think there the other issue they are gonna get called on the carpet/ dinged for is recruiting transfers with shady pasts. They are supposed to be reviewing transfer students both in admissions and in athletics. Reading that document it basically says athletics was driving the ship which is a "no-no".

They certainly were, and the whole tiff between Briles and Chris Petersen should be revisited with the release of this investigation:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foot...s-sam-ukwuachu

Is there anyone that doesn't think Briles was lying out of his ass regarding Ukwuachu and what Petersen told him?

[muns]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

They certainly were, and the whole tiff between Briles and Chris Petersen should be revisited with the release of this investigation:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foot...s-sam-ukwuachu

Is there anyone that doesn't think Briles was lying out of his ass regarding Ukwuachu and what Petersen told him?

Thanks for bringing that back up, as I had totally forgotten about that. I need to read more on that now to see how that is going to fit in here. Seems like stuff is going to just keep piling on.

[murrayyyyy]

Somehow I think there may be a change here...

https://twitter.com/McMurphyESPN/sta...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

[molson]

Speaking of Petersen, Boise St. is also becoming a hotbed (maybe that's the wrong term in this instance) of sexual misconduct. Three players were recently suspended or expelled following "Title IX inquiries" of sexual assaults. (They weren't recruited by Petersen, but Boise St. is apparently continuing his tradition of going after questionable character guys because hey, how the hell else do you recruit to Idaho). The big news angle is that the school did not notify the police of any of the incidents - and they weren't required to under state law. So there's a big debate on that, with one side worrying about these things being swept under the rug, and the other worrying that victims will be less likely to seek help if a police referral is a mandatory result. This is already kind of a touchy situation in Idaho where a few years ago, a college professor murdered a student he was having a sexual relationship with. The school was aware that the relationship was spiraling out of control and that state criminal stalking laws were being violated, but the police weren't contacted. A big lawsuit settlement followed.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Logan

Baylor admits to "directly discouraging some complainants from reporting (incidents) & retaliated against one for reporting sexual assault"

— Brett McMurphy (@McMurphyESPN) May 26, 2016

According to someone on the Texas board Briles was sending assistant coaches to talk to girls directly in order to pressure them into not reporting incidents.

[bronconick]

Baylor Bears hire Jim Grobe as interim coach

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Baylor Bears hire Jim Grobe as interim coach

Yeah, that definitely feels like one where the "interim" tag won't be removed at season's end.

[cartman]

Baylor's AD is out now as well.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, that definitely feels like one where the "interim" tag won't be removed at season's end.

Grobe will be AD at seasons end.

But make no mistake Jim Grove is a GREAT college football coach, super high integrity, good Christian man, a great fit at Baylor.

He had offers to be the HC at Nebraska but turned it down because he gave his word...then wake Forestate disn't hold up their end of the bargain.

There are 100 programs in the county who would improve by hiring Jim Grobe as their Head Coach

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

There are 100 programs in the county who would improve by hiring Jim Grobe as their Head Coach

Nice enough fellow most likely, I don't see him being able to even keep Baylor competitive for very long.

edit: As a coach I mean. I have no real thoughts on his AD skills.

[CU Tiger]

I guess time will tell who is right.

The fact that he won an ACC Championship at Wake Forest is one of the more impressive feats in my lifetime as college coach, imho.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Grobe will be AD at seasons end.

But make no mistake Jim Grove is a GREAT college football coach, super high integrity, good Christian man, a great fit at Baylor.

He had offers to be the HC at Nebraska but turned it down because he gave his word...then wake Forestate disn't hold up their end of the bargain.

There are 100 programs in the county who would improve by hiring Jim Grobe as their Head Coach

I love Grobe as well, but I disagree with all of this. Grobe had a couple of very good seasons at Wake when the ACC was dogshit. I figured he'd move on to a bigger program or continue to build the program - he did neither. But the time, he left, Wake was back to being Wake. 100 programs? No.

I also dont know why he'd link his name to Baylor right now. Its toxic. Maybe he's desperate to back into coaching - I dont know. And if he's never been an AD, I see no way Baylor will give a rookie AD one of, if not the most difficult, current jobs in the country.

Like many have said before, its going to get alot worse in Waco before it gets better.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

I love Grobe as well, but I disagree with all of this. Grobe had a couple of very good seasons at Wake when the ACC was dogshit. I figured he'd move on to a bigger program or continue to build the program - he did neither. But the time, he left, Wake was back to being Wake. 100 programs? No.

His last few years in Winston he was very frustrated and not very committed. He was also forced to not back fill several support positions when people left for greener pastures. Never mind that he spend an entire football season without an office and routinely had coach meetings at his house because of unwillingness to fix issues as basic as water leaks.

It is entirely possible I am a touch blinded by affinity but I also know there were a lot of things that were never public there. When he turned down Nebraska it was with the understanding he would be given funding to offer significant raises to his staff, equal to what they would have made had they gone with him, and that never came to fruition beyond a token bump.


I will readily agree that the ACC was down when he won it, and I have publicly called it an embarrassment for WF to ever win a football conference championship. But make no mistake, he did win it.

The bigger question to me is can BAYLOR attract Tier 1 athletes without major flaws and without violating the NCAA rules to do so. I am not sure Briles has proven the can.

The fact that both are historically Baptist Institutes shouldn't be overlooked when asking 'Why Baylor?' either.

[murrayyyyy]

Reports: Baylor brass considering one-year suspension for Art Briles - CBSSports.com

Well just when you think the Baylor situation can't get any more amazing... So they'll just suspend Briles for a season and bring him back. Me thinks someone spiked the Dr. Pepper.

[Atocep]

I don't see the other schools in the Big 12 allowing that to happen. I'm not surprised at all that they'd try it.

If something happens to the Big 12 Baylor is doing a great job of making sure no conference will want anything to do with them.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

His last few years in Winston he was very frustrated and not very committed. He was also forced to not back fill several support positions when people left for greener pastures. Never mind that he spend an entire football season without an office and routinely had coach meetings at his house because of unwillingness to fix issues as basic as water leaks.

It is entirely possible I am a touch blinded by affinity but I also know there were a lot of things that were never public there. When he turned down Nebraska it was with the understanding he would be given funding to offer significant raises to his staff, equal to what they would have made had they gone with him, and that never came to fruition beyond a token bump.


I will readily agree that the ACC was down when he won it, and I have publicly called it an embarrassment for WF to ever win a football conference championship. But make no mistake, he did win it.

The bigger question to me is can BAYLOR attract Tier 1 athletes without major flaws and without violating the NCAA rules to do so. I am not sure Briles has proven the can.

The fact that both are historically Baptist Institutes shouldn't be overlooked when asking 'Why Baylor?' either.

Just saw this. And as always, a comprehensive and thoughtful reply. Thanks sir.

To answer your Baylor recruiting question, I think the answer is yes (at least at the offensive skill positions), they can, or at least could in the current environment. Going forward and without Briles, the answer is no. I think kids have proven over and over, they want to go to a winner. No matter how the green slime did it, they were definitely winning. Now that the hammer is on its way down, I dont see any way Baylor can continue to recruit like it has been the past couple of years, which again, makes me wonder why Grobe took the job in the first place. The defense is below average (and has been) and I just dont see the offense clicking without Daddy Briles there. I see 6-6 or 7-5 this year and then a bunch of sub .500 years after that.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

which again, makes me wonder why Grobe took the job in the first place.

Worked out well for us

[HomerSimpson98]

good ol Johnelle LOL

[CU Tiger]

Ok So Robinson and Jones from Alabama have had charges dropped and both will be eligible to return to the football team without punishment since no charges were filed.

Not surprising I suppose.

However what IS shocking to me is this quote from the D.A.

DA Jerry Jones told KNOE-TV the thinking behind the decision.

"I want to emphasize once again that the main reason I'm doing this is that I refuse to ruin the lives of two young men who have spent their adolescence and teenage years, working and sweating, while we were all in the air conditioning," Jones told KNOE.

I'm no lawyer but dont we have a DA here publicly admitting to refusing to prosecute simply because these kids play football?

I mean this isnt a grey area case. The kids were charged with illegal possession of a firearm. The gun was in the lap of Robinson when they were stopped. He told the police he didnt know where he got it. The gun was confiscated along with another stolen gun in the car.

They were in possession of stolen handguns.

Its getting harder for me to remain a college football fan when I see young men's lives ruined by the system.

DA won't prosecute Alabama's Cam Robinson, Hootie Jones on weapons, drug charges | AL.com

[Logan]

Brutal quote. Yet not surprising.

[JonInMiddleGA]

There's a D.A. that ought to have been out of office before the sun set.

But apparently he's really popular in his Louisiana district, the longest to ever hold the job there.

From an 2014 article (when he ran unopposed) "has a reputation for a light touch with nonviolent criminals and an iron first with violent ones"

I do think it's probably worth noting here that this isn't a case of "a Bama guy covering for his team" or something. This is a DA in another state, a state that's home to one of Bama's would-be rivals even.

[tarcone]

B1G signs with ESPN. Half their tier 1 rights go for $190 million.

[dawgfan]

Shady behavior by Pat Haden while chairman of the George Henry Mayr Foundation

[Logan]

Bill Hancock told reporters here that the CFP is beginning to explore "alternatives" to Dec. 31 semifinals starting with 2018 season

— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) July 13, 2016

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Logan

Bill Hancock told reporters here that the CFP is beginning to explore "alternatives" to Dec. 31 semifinals starting with 2018 season

— Stewart Mandel (@slmandel) July 13, 2016

Thanks goodness. I'd love to talk to whomever thought that was a good idea in the first place to understand their thought process. Why take one of the few nights of the year when people have plans to go out with friends and put the games on then?

[Logan]

Mack Rhoades sprints away from the Mizzou AD job, seeking comfort in leading the athletic department of Baylor.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

Mack Rhoades sprints away from the Mizzou AD job, seeking comfort in leading the athletic department of Baylor.

I saw that, made me wonder if the guy is some sort of masochist. (given the timing of his two arrivals)

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

Mack Rhoades sprints away from the Mizzou AD job, seeking comfort in leading the athletic department of Baylor.

I'll try not to put the MBBF spin on this too bad but Missouri football players hold ridiculous protest and within a year both its greatest football coach of all time and it's freshly hired AD gone. Not a coincidence.

[tarcone]

Miaaou is a train wreck. Their enrollment is down. Things are going to be tough there for awhile.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jake Trotter
ESPN Staff Writer


Big 12 media days not off to a great start. Bob Bowlsby refers to new Baylor coach Jim Grobe as "Al Groh."

[tarcone]

The AP listed their all time top 25 recently. Very interesting. It actually lists more of than the top 25.

Ohio State Buckeyes, Oklahoma Sooners, Notre Dame Fighting Irish top AP's all-time Top 25

[Logan]

Baylor offensive lineman Rami Hammad accused last fall of sexually assaulting student, violating a university-issued no contact order

[digamma]

Reports have Georgia Tech AD Mike Bobinski taking the Purdue AD job. Guy was never a fit at GT and you know the old door not hitting you on the way out...that's what's happening here.