The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am flabbergasted that 41% of people think a wall is consistent with American values. Did they all drop out of school in the second grade?

Best I can say is The Times They Are A Changin'

I certainly don't dispute majority of Americans are against the wall however lets not so easily dismiss the 40-43% minority that do favor a wall of some sort. That's a pretty darn large minority.

Interestingly #28 shows support for wall increasing from 33 to 43 and oppose decrease from 64 to 55.

Interesting survey. Lots of data. Thanks for sharing.

[Mota]

Just for laughs I listened to SiriusXM Patriot channel which is the conservative politics channel. It was downright frightening, I had no idea that people like that existed in the real world.

People blaming the democrats for the shutdown, absolutely. Even though it is Trump's shutdown. I don't know how they could be passionate enough to call into a radio show, yet listen so little about the world around them.

Also every commercial during the show is debt relief.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am flabbergasted that 41% of people think a wall is consistent with American values. Did they all drop out of school in the second grade?

This country has always had a contingent that was against immigration, especially against illegal immigration. Irish, Asians, Mexicans, you name it.

What did you learn in American history after the 2nd grade that was so different?

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am flabbergasted that 41% of people think a wall is consistent with American values. Did they all drop out of school in the second grade?

We had two great big blue walls for the majority of our existence, called the Pacific and Atlantic Ocean. Most people that come into the country across these oceans are vetted at either the port or the airport.

If I take a major freeway and cross into Canada or Mexico, there is someone at that border crossing that asks for ID, and vets me. The same goes for crossing back into the country.

I am not going to put words in the mouth of everyone that supports a wall, my view is this:

1). A wall is not going to prevent entry to the country, it is a deterrent to those coming in illegally.

2). It should be designed to be backed up by other surveillane mechanisms, which will allow border patrols to react in a reasonable amount of time to those crossing illegally.

3). I believe it is important to protect your borders. It sets up what to expect in other areas of society. If your first experience with US law enforcement is flouting immigration laws, how many other laws are you willing to flout?

4). It allows us a means of documenting who is here. This is done for any number of reasons from taxes to safety.

That said, I do not believe the great menace is the Hispanic population in Central America. I think it is the ease in which terrorists and other foreign agents can enter the country. Regarding immigration, I want us to pick a set of laws and enforce them. We already do not enforce the laws on the books for immigration (otherwise we would have some sort of border security).

I could care less about what the actual numbers are. If we want to open the borders, and decide that as a nation. Let’s go ahead and do it. However, I am not in favor of offering any sort of safety net to immigrants. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, the government is here for US citizens, not for foreigners. If someone wants to join the club, you are not coming in to be a parasite. You will be symbionts and provide benefit to the citizens of the nation. Second, there are other avenues for assistance that do not require the federal government to be involved. Charities and church groups can provide for the less fortunate.

Now, if we choose to limit who comes in, then WE get to decide who we want to let in. Other nations have rules, we can too. Many times, nations prefer workers with certain skill sets and have incentives or allow higher numbers of these workers to come into the country. There is no reason why we cannot have these same rules in place. It also allows a manageable number of immigrants to come in and reasonably assimilate into the country.

In either case of opening up immigration or having it limited, neither alternative is in opposition to having secure borders.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Looks like even the Republicans are sick of Steve King of Iowa-he's not been appointed to any committees-unanimously. Wonder if Nancy Pelosi will Censure him now to drive the final nail in the coffin.

Edit: Got fooled by a tweet-oh they still removed him from committees-was just fooled by a joke about it.

[Thomkal]

Rand Paul, one of the biggest critics of socialized medicine, will travel to Canada, where they have socialized medicine to have hernia surgery. This is a follow up to the fight he had with his neighbor.



Rand Paul neighbor attack: Senator to have surgery in Canada


And no this is not a joke.

[NobodyHere]

He's going to a privately owned clinic that specializes in the surgery he needs done. Not sure what the big deal is.

[Edward64]

Heard this on NPR and it brought up something re: emergency power declaration and the precedence that I didn't think about.

Trump Still Considering National Emergency Declaration As Shutdown Negotiations Continue : NPR

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Do we know where he's landed on declaring a state of emergency? You're describing this sort of back and forth. But do we know where his head's at?

LIASSON: It seems that he's saying, I will do it if I can't get a deal. But the waffling around this is happening because some of his advisers say it's not a good idea. It's going to be tied up in the courts. The Republicans in Congress are split on this. Some Republicans say it would usurp Congress's power of the purse. Others say it's a terrible precedent because a future Democratic president could declare a state of emergency around gun safety or health care or climate change.

But other Republicans on the Hill privately would be thankful for the president to take this whole issue off their laps because if he does declare a state of emergency, he would, presumably, have to open the government.

I can see a Democratic President taking "gun safety" baby steps like banning bump stocks (why in the world did it take so long?). Slippery slope for sure.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Heard this on NPR and it brought up something re: emergency power declaration and the precedence that I didn't think about.

Trump Still Considering National Emergency Declaration As Shutdown Negotiations Continue : NPR


I can see a Democratic President taking "gun safety" baby steps like banning bump stocks (why in the world did it take so long?). Slippery slope for sure.

That's why this emergency declaration thing needs to be shot down. If it's not then we've created a defacto monarchy and need to stop pretending we have a democracy.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

This country has always had a contingent that was against immigration, especially against illegal immigration. Irish, Asians, Mexicans, you name it.

What did you learn in American history after the 2nd grade that was so different?

True but not in those numbers. And that was a very different time.

I have a BA in history from university of Washington. One of the best schools in the country. Where is yours from?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have a BA in history from university of Washington. One of the best schools in the country. Where is yours from?

Sounds like you should ask for a refund.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

He's going to a privately owned clinic that specializes in the surgery he needs done. Not sure what the big deal is.

Private clinic that gets a majority of it's money from government of Ontario.


Really, if this was a D, Fox news would be all over them for either being too good for good ol' US of A medicine, or unpatriotic for not supporting the country. Either way it would be a load of crap, so there's part of that here too. It's a minor story that would have been blown out of proportion. It's an ironic story. Someone should probably say something like, maybe he can just stay there and enjoy his government sponsored medicine and stay the hell out of 'merica!

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have a BA in history from university of Washington. One of the best schools in the country. Where is yours from?

Oh, this is going to be good.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Sounds like you should ask for a refund.

Touche

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Oh, this is going to be good.

Not really. I have no interest in entertaining an internet tough guy. It is why I stopped posting here for 3 and a half years.

[PilotMan]

Really?

Clemson championship team, the national championship team, will be coming tonight and it’ll be exciting. Very great team, unbelievable team. They’ll be coming tonight. And I think we’re going to serve McDonald’s, Wendy’s, Burger Kings with some pizza. I really mean it. It will be interesting. And I would think that’s their favorite food. So we’ll see what happens. But they’re coming tonight, the national champions, subject to the weather.

Yes Really.

Trump was serious. A White House spokesperson confirmed to CNN that Trump is actually paying for the food for the 76 Clemson players (plus coaches and other administration) making the trip to Washington. Yes, Trump is so cheap he’s only buying these kids fast food.

[Edward64]

Nothing wrong with good old American food. I did catch a clip of it on TV tonight.

(And yes, American pizza has definitely exceeded its origins)


To be honest, I really don't think its because Trump is cheap.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Really?




Yes Really.

Just to play a little devil's advocate here, what should Trump have served to his guests here out of own pockets?

[Young Drachma]

on the whole out of pocket thing, the President always pays for food in the White House regardless. I suspect in this instance since it's a state event, we pay for it, but it's no grand gesture of charity that "he's paying" since all Presidents pay for their own food, that's literally how it works.

I suspect past events like this, they didn't host a dinner for them at all. IIRC past events have been during the day, they come in for the photo op and then they leave. Maybe there's snacks or whatever, so this might be a bit of freelance photo op-ing, but way to turn a pedestrian event into a story because of burgergate.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Not really. I have no interest in entertaining an internet tough guy. It is why I stopped posting here for 3 and a half years.

To be fair, I did take slight offense at your presumption my (and 40-43% others) support of the wall was not aligned with American values.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Just to play a little devil's advocate here, what should Trump have served to his guests here out of own pockets?

Five Guys, Red Robin, Taco Mac - they all have better burgers. For Pizza, for sure Mellow Mushroom.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

He's going to a privately owned clinic that specializes in the surgery he needs done. Not sure what the big deal is.

Edit: What Pilot Man said

[PilotMan]

I thought it was more heinous that his impression of what college athletes like to eat was totally fast food, burgers and pizzas. I'd have to say, going to the WH to eat fast food would probably diminish the trip for me. I'd rather not have had anthing at all. I mean, I can eat that whenever I want, why make something like going to the WH that pedestrian?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Some Canadians posted in the tweet I read about this-the clinic is not private owned

Here's the wiki. Not sure if it absolutely answers the question but it does read like its a private hospital.

If I could afford it, I would go to the best also. However, I do think there is a little bit of hypocrisy here but not as much as the press would make it out to be.

Shouldice Hernia Centre - Wikipedia

History
Shouldice was founded in 1945 by Dr. Earle Shouldice.[1][2] While private hospitals are not allowed under Ontario's Private Hospitals Act,[2] Shouldice is one of seven private hospitals in the province grandfathered under the Act.[2] The hospital has been continuously family run from its inception.

Work
Shouldice works solely on hernia repair.[1] It uses a natural tissue, tension free, technique developed during World War II by Dr. Shouldice. Ten full-time surgeons perform over 7500 hemiorrhapies each year.[citation needed]

Everything in the hospital is designed toward hernia repair.[1] Shouldice's rooms do not have telephones or televisions, which it says is to encourage patients to walk around while recovering.[1] The hospital is laid out like a "country club."[3] According to the hospital, it has the lowest rate of complications and recurrences of hernias in the world.[2] The success of its method has been cited to the fact that Shouldice surgeons solely do hernia operations.[4]

[thesloppy]

The only thing worse than McDonald's and Wendy's is McDonald's and Wendy's that has been sitting out for hours. I'm guessing these guys have trainers that have literally spent years telling these kids not to eat these exact foods.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Just to play a little devil's advocate here, what should Trump have served to his guests here out of own pockets?

You give the WH staff a budget and they work with the chefs to create a menu.

Like every other dinner at the WH.

[Fidatelo]

Burgergate is why Trump is a madman genius. You guys are discussing the menu he should serve some kids instead of, I don't know, whether he's a traitorous dictator. Plus he probably got sponsored by McDonald's and Wendy's to mention they were providing the food. He's probably getting paid to host that shindig.

Camacho 2020

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

You guys are discussing the menu he should serve some kids instead of, I don't know, whether he's a traitorous dictator.

Hmm, pretty sure something like this has been covered at least once in the last 723 days. Once or maybe 723 times, give or take a few.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I agree. There will be some hardcore Hillary supporters that would stick with her and come up with excuses/rationalizations but it wouldn't be as much as Trump, many would see the light and drop her IMO.

If Hillary did all that Trump did, said all that Trump said, was accused of what Trump has been accused off, there is no doubt both the Dem and GOP House and Senate would impeach her.

My explanation is because those hardcore Democrats can find other viable alternatives whereas Trump supporters really don't have an alternative.

With that said -

• I'm not convinced that Trump himself "colluded" with Russia to steal the election. Sure there are stuff that can be interpreted that way but no smoking gun with him holding it
• I'm more interesting in his financial dealings that may be illegal. Juicy as those details may be, doubt that will get him impeached

Bottom line -

Like it or not, we're stuck with Trump for the next 2 years at least (and I am glad the Dems own the House to bring more balance).

His abuse of the Emoluments Clause in the Constitution should have led to his impeachment after he refused to properly divest of his businesses. That would have had President Pence by mid summer 2017.

[stevew]

Eh if he wants to postmates in a bunch of food, more power to him.

[Izulde]

I read somewhere ( can't remember where) that the food was actually cold by the time the players got to eat. Cold fast food is gross.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

To be fair, I did take slight offense at your presumption my (and 40-43% others) support of the wall was not aligned with American values.

Statue of Liberty, land of the free, Ellis island, land of opportunity.....

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Guess that doesn't mean what it used to. Yet the people for the wall claim to be the true patriots.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Statue of Liberty, land of the free, Ellis island, land of opportunity.....

Guess that doesn't mean what it used to. Yet the people for the wall claim to be the true patriots.

A little truth to what you say but I think the US is still doing pretty well.

Key findings about U.S. immigrants | Pew Research Center

The United States has more immigrants than any other country in the world. Today, more than 40 million people living in the U.S. were born in another country, accounting for about one-fifth of the world’s migrants in 2016. The population of immigrants is also very diverse, with just about every country in the world represented among U.S. immigrants.

Before we begin debate on this, I assume this is the summation of your core POV re: American values?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Five Guys, Red Robin, Taco Mac - they all have better burgers. For Pizza, for sure Mellow Mushroom.

You serious, Clark?

[Ben E Lou]

The best words.

[Kodos]

Mmmmm. Hamberders.

[JPhillips]

Everything's a con.

Trump to media yesterday: "We have 300 hamburgers"
Trump to Clemson yesterday: "I go out and send for about 1,000 hamburgers"
Trump this morning: "I served them massive amounts of Fast Food (I paid), over 1000 hamberders"

[QuikSand]

It's hamberders all the way down

[PilotMan]

One of my biggest issues with him is his need run his mouth. Like in this situation, why does he need to tell everyone that he's paying for all the food?

Furthermore, if I'm a billionaire, and I'm the president, and I'm paying? I'm hiring a crew and we're doing this the right way. Fast food makes him look cheap, no question.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

This country has always had a contingent that was against immigration, especially against illegal immigration. Irish, Asians, Mexicans, you name it.

What did you learn in American history after the 2nd grade that was so different?

No "especially" about it. "Illegal" immigration became a cause celèbre among the American right in the 1990s.

The rest of that statement is true, for values of true, though. Immigration, for the entire history of this country, has been a case of "I got mine, you can fuck off" on the far right. In some cases, it was explicitly about whiteness (the entire debate over whether Asians were capable of citizenry, or just pawns of the Chinese and Japanese emperors at the turn of the 20th century, the equivocation of Irish with blacks, as examples).

In other cases, it was about barring the "wrong" kind of Europeans (the quota shenanigans putting a national thumb on the scale to favor English and German immigration over, say, Italian).

But in all of those cases, there was very little concern over whether immigrants were coming here legally, and greater concern over whether they should be allowed to come at all.

Not so different, actually, from how Trump and his advisors began squalling about "illegal immigration" and then floating plans for locking down "legal" immigration, also. Because "illegal" is largely a word used to rile conservatives and right-leaning independents against the community of immigrants as a whole. Once you prime the pump to get people thinking that immigrant = bad, it becomes easier, politically, to propose things comparable to the Immigration Acts of 1917 and 1924, updated for the good ol' 21st century.

[molson]

Do we know what kind of toiler paper the players had access to? Was it at least double ply?

Did they get regular folding chairs, those folding chairs with the padding on them, or was it more like when of those wooden fold-up chairs you can rent at festivals and outdoor plays sometimes?

[CU Tiger]

Got a text last night from a friend that said

"From Filet Mignon in the field house to Mickey D's in the White House"...

[albionmoonlight]

Should have been Popeyes

[stevew]

I dont think this President could serve fried chicken to minorities without Twitter melting down.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by stevew

I dont think this President could serve fried chicken to minorities without Twitter melting down.

Wonder if he thought of that or just lucked out.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Wonder if he thought of that or just lucked out.

I hope to god someone threw their body in front of the Popeye's van pulling up

[stevew]

McDonald's talked about rolling out the Hamberderer cause a petty Hamburgler is not edgy enough

[JPhillips]

Testimony in the El Chapo trial today revealed that El Chapo had paid past Mexican President Nieto a 100 million dollar bribe.

I think we know the starting point to get Trump to reopen the government.

[kingfc22]

My gut says Pelosi's move re: State of the Union address will backfire and will be the beginning of a switch in public opinion leading to the Dems caving on the wall to re-open the government.

[digamma]

I'm not sure. That would require people to care about the State of the Union Address.