NFL 2022-23 Season Thread

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Weird officiating at the end of the game. Seemed a bit rocky tacky on the illegal formation and then swallowed the whistle on the probable PI.

I’ve no idea how they don’t throw the flag there for PI.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by stevew

Weird officiating at the end of the game. Seemed a bit rocky tacky on the illegal formation and then swallowed the whistle on the probable PI.

It was possibly worse than that. There's video that appears to show the WR checking the ref, getting the thumbs up (unclear, could also be pointing at the line) and then an immediate flag at the snap. WR also said after the game the ref told him he was good (which could be a lie to cover his ass).

[miami_fan]

What is the reasoning behind WRs asking the official if they are lined up correctly? I have never thought about it before but isn't weird that a player will ask if they are breaking a rule or not before every play and the official telling them yes or no so the player can correct the mistake before penalized?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What is the reasoning behind WRs asking the official if they are lined up correctly? I have never thought about it before but isn't weird that a player will ask if they are breaking a rule or not before every play and the official telling them yes or no so the player can correct the mistake before penalized?

But, as fans, none of us *like* Illegal formation penalties, right? Just a disruption in the action.

So if the league has a way to minimize them without letting people line up illegally, then I'm ok with that.

[miami_fan]

Sure but none of us like offsides either. Are the defenders also allowed to ask if they are lined in the neutral zone? I am not trying to be a jerk, I am just trying to understand how there is ever an illegal formation or a lining up in the neutral zone penalty if you can just ask the ref if you are good or not. Why wouldn't all positions do that?

[Ksyrup]

Yes, they can. But look where they are positioned on the field - who are they going to ask without risking the ball being snapped while they are turned or out of position? My guess is the WR thing evolved over time given the proximity of side judges (or whatever official name that particular ref has) to WRs.

[sterlingice]

This was a bit of a hot topic on KC sports talk in 2018 because if Dee Ford doesn't get a defensive offsides negating an interception, the Chiefs win the AFC title game. The thought is that refs will sometimes give a courtesy mention to players that they're getting too close if they're getting too close, almost like a warning, before calling it. But it's just a courtesy call and it's still on the player to make sure they're in the right place or ask if they're not sure.

SI

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

What is the reasoning behind WRs asking the official if they are lined up correctly? I have never thought about it before but isn't weird that a player will ask if they are breaking a rule or not before every play and the official telling them yes or no so the player can correct the mistake before penalized?

You see receivers do this all the time. You'll see them point forward to tell the ref they mean to be on the LOS or back to indicate they intend to be off LOS. The WRs are trying to line up according to the ref's interpretation of the LOS. Why not let them know they're OK?

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yes, they can. But look where they are positioned on the field - who are they going to ask without risking the ball being snapped while they are turned or out of position? My guess is the WR thing evolved over time given the proximity of side judges (or whatever official name that particular ref has) to WRs.

The same official the wide receivers do? Regardless if that is the reasoning, I accept it as a quirk of the game. However, if that is the case and the following actually happened, then the official is in the wrong IMO. I agree with McLaurin that he and other players probably shouldn't leave it up to the officials.

On the replay, the official on that side motioned to McLaurin that he should move up. McLaurin scooted up.

"When I moved up, I checked to see if I was good, and he said I was good," McLaurin said. "I'm not trying to get fined. We had other opportunities; for it to come down like that is tough."

McLaurin could be seen giving a thumbs-up sign to the official. He said he heard the official say he was OK. But he also said he can't leave it up to the officials.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And it's why Mariota was, and was still, the best chance to win at the position this season.

The move, right or wrong, was always a clear signal that the Falcons had no desire to make the playoffs for a first-round exit.

I think they needed to do it. You have to put him in live fire to evaluate him, and they have to make a decision about next year. The team is not going on a playoff run.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think they needed to do it. You have to put him in live fire to evaluate him, and they have to make a decision about next year. The team is not going on a playoff run.

That's perfectly valid ... but it also says to me "yeah, really don't care about making the playoffs this year ..." so why play any of the starters who might have people you should also get a longer look at behind them?

[Solecismic]

Having a guy in practice for months gives you a good idea of what you have. Getting him in games is the next step, but sometimes you already know and are just hoping for lightning to strike.

It takes a couple of years to know with quarterbacks, but most don't pan out after the first handful of picks. In a league where quarterback play defines your team and the number of capable quarterbacks is out of balance with the number of capable players at every other position, scouts and coaches spend a lot of time evaluating quarterbacks.

Going into the 2022 draft, the word was that it was a historic bad draft for quarterbacks. They went #20, #74, #86, #94, #137, #144, #241, #247 and #255.

Of those #20 was pressed into starting service and has struggled, but rookie quarterbacks usually struggle - not sure if he's going to stick. #86 has been a disaster in limited service, best to take the off-season to work with him, he's young and has potential. #137 showed signs of life, but was a turnover machine - again, take the off-season to work with him. #247 isn't close to ready and #255 is winning - they might have won the lottery there, but it's a good situation and a loaded team.

About once every 5-6 years, someone drafted on what's now the third day or is undrafted winds up being more than a career backup. That's for the entire league.

It is a good opportunity to evaluate #74 (Ridder). Might as well. Important to remember that rookies struggle and the hit rate on #74 - finding a guy who can start in the NFL - is far below 50%. If it were much higher, he would have gone earlier than Pickett.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's perfectly valid ... but it also says to me "yeah, really don't care about making the playoffs this year ..." so why play any of the starters who might have people you should also get a longer look at behind them?

There isn't a lot of depth they need to look at to be honest. They are already starting guys that will likely be back-ups next year (if in the league). They are evaluating some of the guys starting now on whether they will keep them, and some maybe even trade bait. They are going to have a rather large cap number available next year. There is going to be a pretty big influx of new players. They have the most dead cap money in the league this year ($77 million!). That drops to $12 million next year. The fact they have looked as good as they have is a miracle. If they lose out, they possibly could be looking at the 4 pick as well. They are at the 7th pick right now.

Best thing for them is to see what Ridder has when there is live ammunition flying, and determine the level of competition they are going to bring in against him next year. If they think he could develop, maybe a serviceable vet. If not, who knows. A guy like Stroud in the first? Make a play for Lamar Jackson? IDK. I would rather them play it safe.

[GrantDawg]

And just after my post, I see they announced Troy Andersen as starter as MLB. He is one of the biggest project guys they have, and they paid a second rounder for him. He is very athletic, it is just a matter of getting him to NFL game ready.

[Ksyrup]

Assuming this is true, this is something...

Lions coaches vs teams 5+ games over .500

Jim Schwartz: 0-10
Jim Caldwell: 0-8
Matt Patricia: 0-2
Darrell Bevell: 0-2
Dan Campbell: 4-0

— Colin 〽️ (Legal Advisor) (@ColinTrolledYou) December 11, 2022

[albionmoonlight]

Rams/Packers on MNF has to have one of the highest ratios of excitedly-circle-it-on-the-calendar-when-the-schedule-comes-out to actual-excitement-about-the-game-at-the-time ever

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And just after my post, I see they announced Troy Andersen as starter as MLB. He is one of the biggest project guys they have, and they paid a second rounder for him. He is very athletic, it is just a matter of getting him to NFL game ready.

Eh, he's already started two games this season (including last week), not sure why they felt like an announcement now was even necessary really.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c.../gamelog/2022/

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Rams/Packers on MNF has to have one of the highest ratios of excitedly-circle-it-on-the-calendar-when-the-schedule-comes-out to actual-excitement-about-the-game-at-the-time ever

I want to know the last time prior to this game that Lions fans had legit reasons to root for Rodgers and the Pack.

[Ksyrup]

Just saw a tweet out of the blue that Ronnie Hillman is in hospice. Dude was a RB for the Broncos and I believe had his best year when they won the SB in 2015/16. I have no idea what the issue is, but that's incredibly sad. Looks like he was last signed by the Cowboys in 2017 for training camp and was released before the season.

[Ksyrup]

Hillman passed away this morning. 31 years old. His family said he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer in August. Shit like this is incredibly depressing to see...

[Kodos]

Dang. That's rough. R.I.P., Ronnie.

[miami_fan]

31? Damn. RIP Ronnie Hillman.

[miami_fan]

I know it is propaganda. I know it is made for me to forget it is a cold-hearted business. I get that it is just the Pro Bowl. But this is what team sports is all about for me.

Jeremy Reaves played at South Alabama.

He went undrafted in 2018, and eventually signed with the Eagles.

He has been a final roster cut each of the last four season, but finally made Washington’s 53-man roster this year.

And now he’s in the Pro Bowl 🙏pic.twitter.com/C1Z5xnyQQg

— Joe Pompliano (@JoePompliano) December 22, 2022

[albionmoonlight]

Ron Rivera is a good human being.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Ron Rivera is a good human being.

Yeah, while I take great enjoyment in WAS schadenfreude, it's admittedly a bit harder with Rivera as coach. (My wife has shared this sentiment as well.)

[miami_fan]

There has to be some rule that says you can't play for the rest of the season if you get benched for Mike White, Joe Flacco and Chris Streveler all in one season.

[stevew]

It was predictable that Wilson would be this awful, right? Or is just a byproduct of the jersey ruining everyone? I think the Jets run with Rodgers/Brady/Garroppolo or some wild outlier like Zombie Tony Romo next year.


Also pretty damning and funny, but it’s way more believable that someone like Eli Manning or Romo would come out of retirement than it is that anyone would kick the tires on Big Ben. Like that dude never gets brought up as an out of retirement guy lol.

[albionmoonlight]

All the ex-players on the postgame were saying the same thing about Wilson. The locker room will tolerate it if a young QB isn’t good. But they won’t tolerate it if he does not care. And they all agreed that Wilson was at that point. And if he’s going to ever be a starter again, it won’t be with the Jets.

[miami_fan]

I can see it. Last night really was bad. Streveler came in and looked like the QB1 for that team instead of Wilson. He looked like he got all the reps in practice. Even worse for Wilson, Streveler looked like a guy who was 100% certain he was going to play against the Jags because Wilson was going to be horrible.

[BYU 14]

Zach Wilson is an enigma - He has the physical skills of Mahomes, the processing ability of Jamarcus Russell and the mental toughness of Ryan Leaf.

He has the slowest release time of any QB in the NFL this season, that is not on the O-Line, that is on him not progressing through his reads quick enough and not being decisive. At this stage of the game, he has worked with multiple QB coaches, including a very good personal QB mentor in John Beck.

I get New York is a tough place to play and it has obviously gotten to him, to the point he has become the Football version of Ed Whitson. From head to toe, he is a mess and that is all because of where he is from the neck up. I have seen this from time to time in QBs I have coached over the years, and quite honestly there is likely no coming back from this.

It's really quite simple as to why he is not processing quickly enough. He takes his eyes off the downfield reads, looks at the rush, then has to try and pick up the coverage and receiver spacing in time to throw and it is just not a recipe for success at the highest level. It is also why so many of his throws go behind receivers. This in part is also why you see him make those splash throws outside the pocket, because he maintains downfield vision better instinctively moving away from the rush.

Unfortunately, you can not build an offense outside the pocket in the NFL and when you combine that with his demeanor, which comes off as indifferent, shows he is as good as done in New York, and possibly in the league. Not everyone can make the jump.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have seen this from time to time in QBs I have coached over the years, and quite honestly there is likely no coming back from this.

It seems like the best hope for him would to go quietly work as a QB3/practice squad guy somewhere like Kansas City or somewhere else with an entrenched starter and a great offensive infrastructure. Just put in years of quiet hard work to try and get the mental part of it down.

[BYU 14]

Agree, because throwing him out there for any team right now, would just be a death blow to his career.

[Lathum]

I wonder how many fantasy titles will be lost today because people don't realize there is a full slate of games today and not tomorrow.

[JPhillips]

The Patriots look completely demoralized.

[thesloppy]

Lions look ready to give this game away early.

[JPhillips]

The Pats look like the late 90s Bengals.

[JPhillips]

dola

The Pats are done this season.

1st half stats:

Yards: 303 - 60
First downs: 22 -2
Passing yards: 278 - 18

[Thomkal]

Panthers only managed 20 yards rushing against the Steelers last week. At half against the Lions, over 200 yards rushing, with 2 100+ yard carriers. Crazy how that happens.

[Solecismic]

Stuff like that happens when you play a hot quarterback. The Pats have had great defense this season. Burrow has shredded it. I wouldn't write them off for a playoff berth, but they are not in the same tier as Cincinnati, Kansas City and Buffalo right now.

Weather conditions today:

Carolina: 20 degrees, 10-mph winds
Tennessee: 20 degrees, 10-mph winds
New England: 17 degress, 12-mph winds
Baltimore: 17 degrees, 16-mph winds
Kansas City: 12 degrees, 15-mph winds
Chicago: 9 degrees, 26-mph winds
Cleveland: 6 degrees, 26-mph winds
Minnesota: well, it's 3 degrees and windy outside, but we're not...

Overall, scoring seems to be about average. My research suggests that the NFL is only really affected by wind as weather (cold makes contact hurt a lot more, but doesn't change the fundamentals), and that when it's over 15mph, it starts hurting the passing game.

[NobodyHere]

I had hopes the Lions would make the playoffs.

It's just more proof that the Lions have mastered the art of letting fans down.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Panthers only managed 20 yards rushing against the Steelers last week. At half against the Lions, over 200 yards rushing, with 2 100+ yard carriers. Crazy how that happens.

The NFL does a good job with schedule parity, but this has been a very unusual season with the distribution of good teams and bad teams. So the Panthers are 0-4 against teams with a winning record, and finish in-division with two games that if they win, they almost certainly win the division.

Then you get the irony of the Jets failing no matter what they do at quarterback while Sam Darnold gets reinvented as the game manager lower-risk guy he always should have been, saving the Panthers' season.

I feel bad for Jets fans. Joe Namath predates most of their lives and there really hasn't been that much excitement since.

[Solecismic]

I don't feel bad for Lions fans. They should know better.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I don't feel bad for Lions fans. They should know better.

That is Truth

[miami_fan]

There is another one of THOSE Saturday NFL games going on in Foxboro.

[Solecismic]

Perhaps they should consider sending Stevenson to the locker room at the two-minute warning of each game.

[stevew]

So I was looking at Running back fumbles with Franco’s death. He is tied with Tony Dorsett with the most career fumbles(90). Since 1995 the top 3 are Tiki(53), Ricky Williams(52) and Petersen with 49. There’s a bunch of guys with over 10K rushing yards and 33 or less fumbles.

Why did they fumble so much back in the day? Also these guys would have been benched and cut with so many fumbles now, right? Is coaching better or do modern guys work on ball control a lot more and have bigger/stronger handles?

[BishopMVP]

I'd guess focusing on ball control is a small part of it but mostly rule changes. They probably stop forward progress a lot sooner, and idk when "the ground can't cause a fumble" became the standard as you were getting tackled but that would make a huge difference.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Don't overlook the difference in total carries for those older backs.

Of those you mentioned as more modern fumblers, Williams barely had half Harris career carries (1509 vs 2949) and there wasn't that much difference in the fumbles per carry rate of Tiiki. (AP held up his end, actually more carries than Franco)

[JPhillips]

Weird how things work. The Bengals have been great for two halves and terrible for two halves the last two weeks, but they end up 2-0

[stevew]

Wtf were the Raiders doing on that Pickens TD?