Game of Thrones on HBO

[Logan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Neither the Red Wedding or the Purple Wedding was spoiled (you can see that in the results), but yet discussing a character and then putting some stuff in the spoiler tag (with complete assumption on what you are putting in the spoiler tag) is as if you told everyone that Robb was going to die back in the middle of Season 1.

Fuck that shit.

I'm not sure why DT can have a civil discussion about this but you can't. I know you're not actually a dick, but you sure as hell are coming across as one here.

Be honest, how close are you to just putting a massive spoiler in enormous text and really saying "fuck it!"? Reading your responses, it seems pretty close.

[flere-imsaho]

Before the current season started I had been using the other thread to discuss book stuff. But this one got more traffic and it did seem some spoilers were being discussed, so I assumed everyone was OK with it.

If people don't want to be spoiled and want to use this thread for the TV show only, I'm perfectly fine with that and will be happy to use the other thread. Anything else just seems kind of mean-spirited.

And I say this as someone who thinks non-book-reading GoT TV Show fans, in general (though not at FOFC) are bandwagon fucks who, if they caught someone reading the books 12 years ago, would have disparaged them as dorks or nerds.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm not sure why DT can have a civil discussion about this but you can't. I know you're not actually a dick, but you sure as hell are coming across as one here.

Be honest, how close are you to just putting a massive spoiler in enormous text and really saying "fuck it!"? Reading your responses, it seems pretty close.

Because at this point I'm done with being civil about this. Like I put in the post above this one, we've been meticulous about putting things in spoiler tags, but we STILL get called assholes for it because people assume what goes in those spoiler tags. I'm sick of it.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Or rather its that the book readers are happy and excited its on HBO and want to discuss the show and bend over backwards to put any speculation in spoiler tags (which is the reason they exist in the first place), but still get reamed out because non-book readers have assumed what's in the spoiler tags and the existence of them in the first place is treated as a spoiler. There is no acknowledgement of how meticulous book readers are of keeping unspoiled things unspoiled.

So you're looking for a cookie because you're putting spoilers in spoiler tags? You realize that if this thread really stuck to ONLY DISCUSSING THE SHOW, no spoiler tags would be necessary and you wouldn't need to bend over backwards because you wouldn't be talking about the books or any future events at all?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Logan

So you're looking for a cookie because you're putting spoilers in spoiler tags? You realize that if this thread really stuck to ONLY DISCUSSING THE SHOW, no spoiler tags would be necessary and you wouldn't need to bend over backwards because you wouldn't be talking about the books or any future events at all?

The show exists in the world of the books. This thread was NEVER about only discussing the show and pretending like the the books never existed. Read page 1 of this thread.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yeah - please don't lump me in with ISidiqqui on this.

Like you said Logan - I know he's not a dick, but he's clearly getting frustrated.

So would show-only watchers honestly prefer it if all the book readers just went away into the book thread and discussed the book and the show there and didn't come in here at all, unless summoned by a ping to answer a specific question?

Because if that's what you want...I don't imagine too many book-readers would have that much of an issue with it, but that wasn't like...stated at the outset. So let's set the expectation properly hmm?

[Kodos]

Maybe going forward we can treat this thread as TV only? And if people want to discuss events in the future of the show, use the other thread. Seems like the easiest solution. A very clear standard.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

that wasn't like...stated at the outset.

Indeed. The people who were the responders to the first episode (pg 2 of this thread) involved you and other book readers and consisted of a lot of "I expected this person to look like this".

The non-book readers came later into this thread.

Heck the top three posters on this thread (the only ones with over 100 posts are Daddy Torgo, Honolulu Blue, and myself).

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Maybe going forward we can treat this thread as TV only? And if people want to discuss events in the future of the show, use the other thread. Seems like the easiest solution. A very clear standard.

Well then in order to avoid spoilers I think we book readers should bow out now and take all our discussion to the other thread then. Because obviously spoiler-tagging stuff doesn't seem to be enough and some things may have inadvertently been disclosed (if any by myself then I apologize BTW).

Enjoy the show guys. Feel free to drop a ping if you have a question you want answered in a non-spoilery way.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Why don't you stay and just discuss the show?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Why don't you stay and just discuss the show?

The show doesn't exist in another universe from the books. We who have read the books are going to have our minds go in different directions, thinking about the future character arc and whether this show plot makes sense in that way. Or if a new character is introduced - whether they match what the book described (the first few pages of this thread is about whether Catelyn in the show matches her description in the books).

Apparently spoiler tags don't work for those sort of thoughts. So DT is saying it makes no sense to discuss those things here if one has to create such mental walls.

[Kodos]

Just to clarify, I'm not up in arms or pissed at anyone. Book readers don't need to feel like they've been banished. And actually, I'm fine with spoiler tags in this thread, as long as they are used whenever something is questionable. I can resist clicking on them. I didn't read SI's comments yesterday, for instance. Once or twice I wandered over into the other thread before realizing that was a bad idea.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Because at this point I'm done with being civil about this. Like I put in the post above this one, we've been meticulous about putting things in spoiler tags, but we STILL get called assholes for it because people assume what goes in those spoiler tags. I'm sick of it.

I don't think anybody stated (unless I missed it) that you or DT specifically divulged anything direct or indirect. I do think other comments made by others do divulge some (possibly minor, possibly major from my perspective) things, that those of us who only know the show, wouldn't otherwise know or assume.

I'll spoiler the parts I think are relevant so others don't have to read into my comments if they didn't draw the same conclusions as I did.

Spoiler

2 comments that I saw....and I'm purposely not quoting as I'm not trying to pick on anybody

1. Given some of Bran's later chapters, it's a shame Jaime didn't actually kill him.

Show watchers have no idea if Bran dies in the woods, becomes warden of the north, or shit...becomes king some weird way later on. But just having "later chapters" does indicate, or make one presume, that Bran lives for quite some time. But one also presumes that Bran does not become king or warden of the north given the latter portion of the comment that its a shame Jaime didn't kill him. In & of itself, the comment can be ambiguously interpreted to mean anything, with no context of time, to be sure. But it does paint a broader picture of Bran's journey that, while arguably interesting (or not), likely does not end with signficant impact to most other characters & therefor does not become king & destroy the Lannisters (for example).

2. His one unforgivable act is throwing Bran out of the tower, so that becomes the crux as to whether you feel like his later acts with Brienne, Tyrion and the Riverlands redeem that or not.

In reference to Jaime. We have no idea that Jaime does anything later with Tyrion, or that he goes back to the Riverlands at this point to do anything that would be "redeemable" (even if we disagree it is redeeming). We don't even know if Tyrion lives past next episode.

Again, not trying to call people out as much as just highlight what I think most show-watcher -only people would presume, conclude, etc. from the non-spoilered comments that have been made.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The show exists in the world of the books. This thread was NEVER about only discussing the show and pretending like the the books never existed. Read page 1 of this thread.

You're right and I'll apologize for that. I had that thought because I know we have a thread here that says "A Song of Ice and Fire (spoilers)" and another that specifically talks about the TV show. There are other places I read with similar threads broken down by books and the TV show, and they're kept separate.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Heck the top three posters on this thread (the only ones with over 100 posts are Daddy Torgo, Honolulu Blue, and myself).

Go even further...there are 16 people with even 20 posts in this thread (this will be my 20th and you can see what the last 5 or 6 have been based on). This is currently the most watched show on cable. You don't think it's a little interesting that there aren't even 20 people on here, in a thread dedicated to the most popular cable show on TV, who post more than once every other episode? If we could do a broad poll of the board, I'm guessing there are plenty others like me who watch every week but generally stay away because of how the discussion turns.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Why don't you stay and just discuss the show?

Because those comments are basically trivial - along the lines of "Oh - that was a cool scene. Loved how Person X said this."

They don't really add to the conversation, and if they create back-and-forth with a non-reader then you have to be hyper-hyper aware you don't inadvertently spoil something for that person or everyone else.

I may have 100+ posts in this thread, but I bet the vast majority of them were shallow, trivial comments like that.

How many of them were "DRAGONS - FUCK YEAH!!!" ??

[Logan]

I've never wanted to know more about a post that I won't end up clicking, than what ISid just put in the Book thread.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I don't think anybody stated (unless I missed it) that you or DT specifically divulged anything direct or indirect. I do think other comments made by others do divulge some (possibly minor, possibly major from my perspective) things, that those of us who only know the show, wouldn't otherwise know or assume.

I'll spoiler the parts I think are relevant so others don't have to read into my comments if they didn't draw the same conclusions as I did.

Spoiler

2 comments that I saw....and I'm purposely not quoting as I'm not trying to pick on anybody

1. Given some of Bran's later chapters, it's a shame Jaime didn't actually kill him.

Show watchers have no idea if Bran dies in the woods, becomes warden of the north, or shit...becomes king some weird way later on. But just having "later chapters" does indicate, or make one presume, that Bran lives for quite some time. But one also presumes that Bran does not become king or warden of the north given the latter portion of the comment that its a shame Jaime didn't kill him. In & of itself, the comment can be ambiguously interpreted to mean anything, with no context of time, to be sure. But it does paint a broader picture of Bran's journey that, while arguably interesting (or not), likely does not end with signficant impact to most other characters & therefor does not become king & destroy the Lannisters (for example).

2. His one unforgivable act is throwing Bran out of the tower, so that becomes the crux as to whether you feel like his later acts with Brienne, Tyrion and the Riverlands redeem that or not.

In reference to Jaime. We have no idea that Jaime does anything later with Tyrion, or that he goes back to the Riverlands at this point to do anything that would be "redeemable" (even if we disagree it is redeeming). We don't even know if Tyrion lives past next episode.

Again, not trying to call people out as much as just highlight what I think most show-watcher -only people would presume, conclude, etc. from the non-spoilered comments that have been made.

Allow me to agree on those parts. I cringe when I see that sort of stuff, but I was specifically called out for spoiling something simply by where I put a spoiler tag, which just seem awfully uber-nitpicky to me.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I don't think anybody stated (unless I missed it) that you or DT specifically divulged anything direct or indirect. I do think other comments made by others do divulge some (possibly minor, possibly major from my perspective) things, that those of us who only know the show, wouldn't otherwise know or assume.

I'll spoiler the parts I think are relevant so others don't have to read into my comments if they didn't draw the same conclusions as I did.

Spoiler

2 comments that I saw....and I'm purposely not quoting as I'm not trying to pick on anybody

1. Given some of Bran's later chapters, it's a shame Jaime didn't actually kill him.

Show watchers have no idea if Bran dies in the woods, becomes warden of the north, or shit...becomes king some weird way later on. But just having "later chapters" does indicate, or make one presume, that Bran lives for quite some time. But one also presumes that Bran does not become king or warden of the north given the latter portion of the comment that its a shame Jaime didn't kill him. In & of itself, the comment can be ambiguously interpreted to mean anything, with no context of time, to be sure. But it does paint a broader picture of Bran's journey that, while arguably interesting (or not), likely does not end with signficant impact to most other characters & therefor does not become king & destroy the Lannisters (for example).

2. His one unforgivable act is throwing Bran out of the tower, so that becomes the crux as to whether you feel like his later acts with Brienne, Tyrion and the Riverlands redeem that or not.

In reference to Jaime. We have no idea that Jaime does anything later with Tyrion, or that he goes back to the Riverlands at this point to do anything that would be "redeemable" (even if we disagree it is redeeming). We don't even know if Tyrion lives past next episode.

Again, not trying to call people out as much as just highlight what I think most show-watcher -only people would presume, conclude, etc. from the non-spoilered comments that have been made.

Spoiler

Ok I can see why you mentioned my post (#1). My thinking at the time is that Bran's journey just kind of dragged and that if Jaime had killed Bran then we wouldn't have these slow, IMO boring Bran POV chapters.

I guess I'll put more thought into what I post in this thread in regards to the non-book readers

[Barkeep49]

As someone who had been a show first watcher until this season, I think it's entirely fair for this thread to be spoiler free and the book thread to not be. I think book readers will be able to have interesting things to add for discussions such as how much less rapey the Jamie/Cersi scene was in the book. This can be done without being future looking. And I do think in the past that this thread contains minor to major spoilers for nonbook readers. It meant I was like some and tended not to read the thread after Monday.

[claphamsa]

just my 2C but if I actually cared I would be pissed about all the spoilers, but I dont care and actively seek them out, as I hate surprises. It however is disheartening to me to see a number of people complaining about spoilers, and the response isnt oops sorry, its suck it and dont read. bad for a community.

[Pyser]

so why isnt there a show thread for people who never read the book? this one can be for people who did and want to compare.

i dont know what goes on in the book thread, i only read book 1, so i cant go in there.

[jeff061]

This is that thread.

[Lathum]

I am currently on book 5 and rarely post in this thread.

First off, if I have ever given anything away my apologies, my wife hasn't read the books and we watch together, so I see both sides.

That being said, I think it is really hard for any book reader to post in the TV thread and not somehow give something away, no matter how subtle. It certainly isn't intentional, hence their reaction, and I think some peoples reactions on both sides were a bit extreme. I think it is likely best for people who have read the books to not post here since they may unintentionally give something away.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Spoiler

Ok I can see why you mentioned my post (#1). My thinking at the time is that Bran's journey just kind of dragged and that if Jaime had killed Bran then we wouldn't have these slow, IMO boring Bran POV chapters.

I guess I'll put more thought into what I post in this thread in regards to the non-book readers

Spoiler

I think your comment was ambiguous and could mean anything, honestly. "Later" could mean what we've already seen for that matter. But I was trying to point out that the conclusion I took away was that Bran sticks around further into the series and this thing drags along seemingly forever. Small spoiler as I don't think there is any grand builduip of his character to be anything overly special or important...but still, something I didn't know.

Its such a small spoiler (for me anyway) and am not trying to single your comment out in any way, but just using as an example of something that might lead a non-bookreader to conclude things they wouldn't otherwise conclude.

I know some people like spoilers, some don't mind small spoilers, and some people don't want any spoilers. I'm probably in the "don't mind small spoiler" camp generally when it comes to a series like this that is enormously long & complex. But I'm more of a "don't tell me anything" person when it comes to a shorter series or movies (I want to see anyway) so I can relate to that type of thinking as well.

[Logan]

Last night's was my favorite of the season. Holy shit...a lot going on. Had a good feeling when I saw Michele MacLaren's name pop up as the director.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Logan

Last night's was my favorite of the season. Holy shit...a lot going on. Had a good feeling when I saw Michele MacLaren's name pop up as the director.

It was great. This is the only show I watch in real time. I kept thinking, everything seems to be going too well for everyone, what's going on here.

[NobodyHere]

I squealed with delight when they mentioned "Ser Pounce"

[DanGarion]

I enjoy the input from those that have read or are reading the books.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

I haven't watched yet, but it is my understanding that last nights' episode featured some items (the ending) that have yet to (or won't) appear in the books. So everyone's on the same page!

[Grover]

Game of Thrones Characters Disney | The Mary Sue

I just made your day better.

[stevew]

Hodor is a great titan.

[Coffee Warlord]

Weak episode in all.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I thought the episode was fine. There were quite a few scenes I really enjoyed:

Everything with Cersei - she was in top form all episode.

The Hound/Arya - The Hound mocking Meryn Trant and Syrio Florel was excellent

Pod/Brienne - I love the take on both characters.

Lysa Arryn - I think the actress does a great job with the role. She's totally crazy. I loved her scene with Sansa and I thought the reveal about Jon Arryn was fine.

Most people seem to take issue with the whole Craster's Keep story, since it wasn't in the books. I didn't really mind it all that much. Bran and his group's running into Craster's group allowed the audience to be re-introduced to those characters in a way that created some tension and drama. We saw more of Bran's Hodor-controlling powers and more of Jojen's sight. Those scenes also allowed the writers to show the White Walkers again. They need to be present more on the show then in the books. It also showed Jon's leadership abilities and reunited him with Ghost.

The episode accomplished quite a bit, really:

- Resolved the Craster's Keep saga

- Littlefinger married Lysa

- The reveal about Jon Arryn

- Tommen became king

[flere-imsaho]

Yeah, there's a lot of plot movement in the episode.

[sabotai]

The issue I have is that for the parts where they deviate from the books a lot, they fall back on annoying cliches to resolve them.

Hodor sneaking up on someone who's supposed to be a skilled fighter seemed absurd to me. Not only that, but why the fuck was he carrying Bran anyway? If his mission was to kill the Stark boys, why not slit his throat right then and there and go find a way to deal with Jon? And why would he leave the three "nobodies" alive?

And Jon's fight scene. Some chick just comes out of nowhere and stabs the bad guy in the back (again, skilled fighter unaware of his surroundings), who then for some reason completely forgets that Jon Snow is even there and he slowly moves towards the girl, giving Snow enough time to recover and kill him. Lame. The whole sequence of scenes at Craster's Keep was cliched filled crap.

Other than that, I liked the episode.

[Coffee Warlord]

I just found it rather stupid they decided to open up a possibility for a big deviation from the books, and immediately decided..."nah, nevermind." Why even bother to dedicate that much screen time to simply maintain the status quo?

Then again, that's like how most of Martin's side plots end anyway.

[NobodyHere]

Hodor!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I just found it rather stupid they decided to open up a possibility for a big deviation from the books, and immediately decided..."nah, nevermind." Why even bother to dedicate that much screen time to simply maintain the status quo?

- It allowed the audience to be re-introduced to Bran/Meera/Jojen/Hodor characters in a way that created some tension and drama. We saw more of Bran's Hodor-controlling powers and more of Jojen's sight.

- Those scenes also allowed the writers to show the White Walkers again. They need to be present more on the show then in the books.

- It also showed Jon's leadership abilities and reunited him with Ghost

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Weak episode in all.

Weakest of the season definitely. It lacked the tension of previous episodes. Too much time on Bran and the weird looking kid.

[stevew]

Pretty sure Daenarys believes her own hype enough to do a verse on Sucka MCs. The tower of power, man of the hour, sucka MCs my dragons will devour.

[Chief Rum]

That episode kinda bored me... until Tyrion's speech. Then it became much more awesome (even knowing it was coming).

[Neon_Chaos]

The last five minutes of that episode was the best five minutes of this season so far.

[General Mike]

Too much Stannis

[Kodos]

Halfway through, my wife and I both agreed that this was the most boring episode ever. But the end redeemed it. Tyrion rocks.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I thought the episode was great. Fantastic ending.

I loved Davos' speech to the Bank of Bravos. Great to see Salador Saan again.

I really enjoyed Yarra's attempted rescue of Theon and the subsequent scene with Theon and Ramsey.

The shot of the dragon was fantastic.

Great stuff.

[Vince, Pt. II]

One of the best episodes of the season last night.

I never had a problem with any of Davos Seaworth's scenes until last night. Now I have a problem with all of the previous ones. That scene so perfectly captured his character, it was awesome. Like I said, not to take away anything from what he's done before, because I've enjoyed it - but last night was just perfect Onion Knight.

I'm enjoying the Theon plotline far more this season, and more even than the books.

The trial was pretty much spot on. Loved every minute of it. Tyrion was brilliant, as were Oberyn and Varys.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Too much Stannis

Originally Posted by Kodos

Halfway through, my wife and I both agreed that this was the most boring episode ever. But the end redeemed it. Tyrion rocks.

Agreed on both. If any episode focuses a ton on the odd Theon subplot or Stannis, it's going to be dragging a bit. Great recovery with Tyrion though.

[kingfc22]

Fantastic ending to the episode.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

One of the best episodes of the season last night.

I never had a problem with any of Davos Seaworth's scenes until last night. Now I have a problem with all of the previous ones. That scene so perfectly captured his character, it was awesome. Like I said, not to take away anything from what he's done before, because I've enjoyed it - but last night was just perfect Onion Knight.

I'm enjoying the Theon plotline far more this season, and more even than the books.

The trial was pretty much spot on. Loved every minute of it. Tyrion was brilliant, as were Oberyn and Varys.

I'm with you. Not a ton of action, but a lot of great dialogue. Really enjoyed it. (Last week's was pretty boring.)

[Neon_Chaos]

Tywin overplayed his hand. He had everything lined up, but he didn't anticipate that Tyrion had feelings for Shae and that her betrayal would blow up his plans. The staredown between himself and Tyrion at the end was great.