12-08-2021, 02:11 PM | #1901 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: North Carolina
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Quote:
It was on first and was the first domino to fall. Almost all of the "Here's how [X] can make the playoffs" hypotheticals started with OSU losing as the first domino. |
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12-08-2021, 02:35 PM | #1902 |
Checkraising Tourists
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cocoa Beach, FL
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Interesting. I wasn't aware how much Lincoln Riley's offense had regressed over the past three seasons. It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers Jeff Lebby is able to put up there.
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12-08-2021, 03:20 PM | #1903 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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I really don't like it when politicians are petty, but I can get behind it when it is in the name of college sports: Oklahoma legislator proposes 'Lincoln Riley Highway'
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12-08-2021, 03:47 PM | #1904 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Does it matter? College football has never had a real championship. Teams have been claiming national championships based on obscure polls and computer rankings for the last 100 years. Some were crowned before bowl games. Some were split. Some schools decided they had won one 50+ years later. And we know voters of these likely never saw most of these teams play (just as I'm sure the committee doesn't watch all the games). Point is that it's just a beauty contest and exhibition to have fun with. Just enjoy it for what it is. |
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12-08-2021, 05:39 PM | #1905 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Given the distribution of NFL-caliber future talent, the SEC is going to field the best players. Add coaches who know what they're doing (and Saban certainly does - his "failure" in the NFL was more frustration in an ownership that refused to give him the players he wanted) and you have the top conference.
That's just the way it is. The ACC doesn't win as many recruiting battles these days, so the schools in the middle of top-recruiting country (Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech) aren't quite as good these days. Clemson has built a nice brand, and South Carolina has suffered in recent years. The ACC also hasn't done a good job getting the television deals done. That's certainly reflected in the ratings and payouts. They can fix this, even though they will continue to lose recruiting battles. These are large universities with the resources to compete. It's not like the MAC in Big Ten country. There are a few schools that can get into the recruiting conversation nationally (Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame among them) and California has its own talent pool, so the Pac-12 powers are sometimes good, though Oregon's top talent isn't exactly west coast in origin. There's enough talent around the country that good coaches at the other major schools can build something. The rankings are more a beauty pageant than anything else. The four teams invited to the playoffs earned the best scores for the pageant. We accept that because a scoring system was created that makes some sense. A true playoff system with a 12-game schedule that we accept as a fair playoff system would need to invite a lot more teams. We'd need a different criteria for "deserving," more like the NFL one. Though not quite as weird as the one that considers the 6-6 WFT a potential playoff powerhouse. |
12-08-2021, 06:14 PM | #1906 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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I'd disagree on Saban and the NFL. There's a massive gap in coaching competency and he just wasn't cut out for the big leagues. Talent levels between teams are much closer, so are resources put into the team, and your coaching counterparts are much more skilled. We recently saw Joe Brady carve up SEC defenses in college and fall flat on his face in the NFL.
The best way I've seen it described is college football is more like the Oscars or Grammys. Your body of work matters, but there is no set metric to decide who gets nominated. The people deciding haven't seen every single movie that came out that year just as the committee hasn't watched every single college game. Marketing, prestige, and other factors play a role. I think people get too worked up about both awards shows and the rankings/bowl system. It's just something fun to watch and debate. |
12-08-2021, 06:34 PM | #1907 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Nice to see Iowa win a national recruiting battle for an in-state five-star DB.
Saban went 15-17 with Gus Frerotte (at age 34), Sage Rosenfels, Joey Harrington (in perhaps his best season), Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon at quarterback. He wanted Drew Brees. Drew Brees wanted to be in Miami. The narrative that Saban felt he wasn't supported is understandable. They went 1-15 after Saban left and have had a winning record only three times since. I think the jury is out on whether Saban can coach at the NFL level. Not that the same skill set is necessary. Last edited by Solecismic : 12-08-2021 at 06:35 PM. |
12-08-2021, 06:46 PM | #1908 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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I am excited. #1 safety in the nation. What a get. What is even better he is an in-state 5* recruit that stayed home. Love it.
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12-08-2021, 08:28 PM | #1909 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Saban also had a really talented defense. And he did have control over personnel. He made the decision to take Ronnie Brown with the #2 pick instead of Aaron Rodgers (who he scouted heavily). He chose to trade a high 2nd round pick for Culpepper. Brees has always been an excuse in hindsight. At the time, he wasn't a star and there is no guarantee that he would have evolved into a Hall of Famer in Saban's offense. I'd say Sean Payton played a large role in transforming Brees and was light years ahead of anything the Dolphins were scheming up back in the day. He was outclassed at the NFL level and he left in part because the players on the team despised him. Numerous accounts of players who almost got into physical confrontations. Dealing with 19-year-olds who you can dangle a scholarship over their head is considerably easier than professionals. I'm sure if you gave him a Hall of Fame QB and the talent advantage he has in every game at Alabama, he would have been a success in the NFL. But so would a lot of coaches. As I said, great college coach, just not good enough to cut it in the big leagues. |
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12-08-2021, 10:30 PM | #1910 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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There are many coaches in the NFL who missed on Rodgers. That was some draft - had to feel bad for him, but he held up well. Would Rodgers have been as good if he didn't have that long apprenticeship under Favre? The Dolphins needed a quarterback, at that time, period.
If one is to blame Saban for the offensive issues, he should get credit for the defense, which was better under his leadership. A lot gets written about NFL players chafing under coaches who have rules better suited to college. But NFL players have to digest very complex game plans and have little time to chafe during the season. Basically, if you're winning, you're happy and if you're losing, you gripe about dumb rules. Tom Coughlin comes to mind - a genius when winning two Super Bowls, but the subject of countless stories about overly-pedantic rules his last two seasons when the Giants were bad. Bill Belichick's "Patriot Way" would quickly lose its charm if he didn't win like no one has ever won before. Obviously, Saban has his narrative and others have theirs. I can't say I believe either one in full, but given his success in Alabama, I don't see his rationale for lying about his reasons for leaving. Even before his book came out, others wrote about the Brees issue in the same way. |
12-08-2021, 10:58 PM | #1911 |
Checkraising Tourists
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cocoa Beach, FL
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I couldn't help but notice that Jim's last 13 posts on FOFC have been in the college football thread. He sold the FOF code, but as far as I know, he did not sell the TCY code. That can only mean one thing. TCY 2 will be coming out sometime in the future! I, for one, would shell out some big bucks if that comes to fruition!
Last edited by Vegas Vic : 12-08-2021 at 10:59 PM. |
12-08-2021, 11:19 PM | #1912 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Thank you for your enthusiasm. I'm sorry, but there won't be a TCY2. I am old and not the healthiest person in the world (too many years of sitting on my ass in front of a computer). I am working as hard as I can, though, and I hope what I'm working on will be of interest when the time comes that I can talk about it (which is a long time from now). I know it won't appeal to everyone here, however.
My sudden interest in college football comes from something really exciting that happened a week ago last Saturday. I worry that it will decline again in 22 days. Thinking about TCY... is there anything I could salvage from that code? Modern recruiting and NIL, player portals, coach portals, the dependence on mobile quarterbacks and options. I think colleges have invented 93 new academic majors as well, plus grade inflation - I'd have to completely redo the academic model. Many people think FOF8 is dated (and ugly), take a look at TCY. |
12-09-2021, 01:06 AM | #1913 | |
High School JV
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Quote:
to me the distribution of talent within the nfl seems to be so narrow (with a few outliers forming a long tail) that i always wonder if we observe mostly random outcomes for most teams in a 16-17 game season and try to make sense of them. and then there's the added effect of path dependence, which has to play a major role on an individual level (meaning that player evolution would not be memoryless). Last edited by tzach : 12-09-2021 at 01:08 AM. |
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12-09-2021, 01:15 AM | #1914 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Well ... NIL is probably already covered by things like Prestige and Playing Time factors so that IMO it probably abstracts well enough to not have to be separated at least. Ya got 99 Problems but that bitch ain't one (sorry, just thinking aloud here)
__________________
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12-09-2021, 01:16 AM | #1915 |
High School JV
Join Date: Mar 2015
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in college football, the distribution of talent seems to be much broader, concentrated in a dozen teams or so, and this is relatively stable over time (meaning that e.g. alabama will almost certainly not suck next season). so my point is that it would be a lot easier for a top coach to do pretty well in college, specially if you benefit from top talent. i don't think one can get a similar talent differential in the nfl.
i still think that saban is pretty good though hehe |
12-09-2021, 09:30 AM | #1916 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cowtown, TX
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So the Quinn Ewers to Texas thing is going to make us purists all hate the NIL stuff if true and when it comes out. Just ridiculous the rumors going around.
Last edited by HomerSimpson98 : 12-09-2021 at 09:30 AM. |
12-09-2021, 11:02 AM | #1917 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
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Quote:
I am not sure which qualities you think he is missing in order to be a good pro coach. Most of the college coaches that come and fail are used car salesmen that either can't adjust their strategies or fail to adjust to the talent. I dont think work ethic, strategy, or personality would really be an issue with Saban. I think his NFL career would have mirrored his good friend Belichick to a lesser degree. |
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12-09-2021, 02:44 PM | #1918 | |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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12-09-2021, 03:10 PM | #1919 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
We saw him as an NFL head coach. We don't have to guess how he would fare at that level. By the end of his run, the team had no direction, had quit on him, and multiple players wanted to fight him. I think it's a stretch to think he would have figured things out the next year considering the direction the franchise was going under him. Nick Saban is a great college coach who has won a lot of games where he has a colossal talent advantage over his competition. There is nothing wrong with that. He'll have a statue outside the stadium and be hailed as one of the greatest in the game. But the NFL is a different world and some just aren't cut out for it. |
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12-09-2021, 03:44 PM | #1920 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
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12-09-2021, 03:55 PM | #1921 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
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Quote:
You have made your decision based on 1 completed season. Which is your own opinion. I think the general consensus is that is takes awhile to get your scheme and culture into place. 1+ years usually isnt enough time for you to clean out the previous culture. Do you not think if Saban declared himself a free agent head coach that he wouldnt get the largest contract in NFL history? |
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12-09-2021, 03:57 PM | #1922 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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A lot of coaches have failed at one job in the NFL and succeeded at another. People change, and also being a winner in one situation can sometimes just mean you managed not to screw up what you had going for you.
I think both perspectives on Saban are partially right, but also incomplete. Prior to his last year at Michigan State, Saban was 25-22-1, having never won more than 7 games there. Did that mean he was a mediocre college coach? Did going 9-2 the next year suddenly make him better? Was he that much better a coach at LSU when he won a title there, or was he just in a better situation? I think in general head coaches have a big impact, but there's a lot of luck involved as well, and wisdom in taking on the right situation at the time. It's way more complicated, even in college, than good coach = winning team. |
12-09-2021, 04:09 PM | #1923 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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I had to look that one up. Unless I'm missing something, 15 years later, it finally comes out that two extremely good athletes wanted to beat up their 54-year-old coach. Nothing against Jay Glazer, but that seems more like the result of a game of telephone more than a fact. And if fact, cooler heads prevailed (it's not like Saban ran screaming from the building and never returned to Miami). Players and coaches sometimes get heated, but it doesn't wind up with punches.
I can understand Culpepper being unhappy. He never recovered from the knee injury that essentially ended his career in Minnesota. A second-rounder would have been an insanely low price for Culpepper pre-injury, but obviously a waste afterward. |
12-09-2021, 04:22 PM | #1924 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Quote:
Pete Carroll approves of this post |
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12-09-2021, 04:28 PM | #1925 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
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Quote:
Well said! And this same statement can be said for numerous professions. |
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12-09-2021, 04:29 PM | #1926 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Oregon gonna go retro for their HC?
That'd certainly be interesting
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-09-2021, 04:35 PM | #1927 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
I'm sure he would get a fat contract. A lot of organizations think being a good college coach translates to NFL success. They are proven wrong most of the time. Not sure why this is controversial. There would be a lot of good NFL coaches who would bomb in college because they couldn't recruit worth a lick. Different leagues require different skill sets. |
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12-09-2021, 04:42 PM | #1928 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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What about Spurrier, Davis, Petrino, Riley, Holtz, Erickson, Schiano, Kiffen, Kelly, and Butch Davis? Can probably add Rhule to that list next season and Urban in a couple more if he sticks around. Carroll is one of the greatest in the sport to ever do it. Same with Jimmy Johnson. But they're both exceptions to the rule. |
12-09-2021, 04:47 PM | #1929 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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12-09-2021, 08:22 PM | #1930 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Quote:
Point being that Carroll was run out after 1 year, went to USC, came back and has been very successful, so you can say Saban could do the same, because like Carroll he is a very good to great coach. Some of the guys you mentioned did not have the personalities to coach in the NFL, Spurrier and Holtz in particular. Saban is not that type of aw shucks, rah, rah coach. |
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12-09-2021, 08:24 PM | #1931 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Quote:
Sitake is 100% not going, he wants to be the Poly Lavell and is using this to leverage more for the program ahead of the big 12 move. the only way he goes is if the BOT, who control BYU and the purse strings screw him over. Which would be ridiculous if they did, since BYU has one of the strongest national followings in the sport and plenty of big donors. |
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12-09-2021, 08:48 PM | #1932 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Bill Walsh, Tom Coughlin, Dennis Green, Jim Harbaugh, Barry Switzer, and Dick Vermeil were all able to win in good environments. All of these guys have led teams to Super Bowl appearances or multiple conference championships. Bill O'Brien and Chip Kelly were both over .500 and made the playoffs in their first NFL stops (Kelly was terrible at SF and dumped his W/L record).
I don't think there is a whole lot to suggest that college to NFL coaches are any more or less successful than retreads or promoted OCs/DCs. If you have or develop a franchise QB, you generally have a good team. If not, you end up out of the job in 3 years. |
12-10-2021, 07:42 AM | #1933 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-10-2021, 09:50 AM | #1934 |
Resident Alien
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Excellent.
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12-10-2021, 06:16 PM | #1935 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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AJC says UGA DC Lanning is the next HC at Oregon.
Pretty much the entire rest of the Twitterverse says nope, not so.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-10-2021, 07:37 PM | #1936 |
World Champion Mis-speller
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Covington, Ga.
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My guess is that this like the Venables to OU rumor that turned true. The decision is all but final, but they still have to dot I's and cross t's.
Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk |
12-10-2021, 09:00 PM | #1937 |
Hall Of Famer
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Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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BYU football coach Kalani Sitake has signed a new contract with the school through the 2027 season.
While not releasing terms, BYU called Sitake's new deal "unprecedented" in a news release.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-10-2021, 09:54 PM | #1938 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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NCAA Probes BYU, Miami NIL Deals for Potential Pay-for-Play Violation
I didn't think people were still trying to follow NCAA rules.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
12-10-2021, 09:56 PM | #1939 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Alabama football coach Nick Saban receives massive contract extension
Quote:
Talent fee.
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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12-10-2021, 09:59 PM | #1940 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
Took me several google articles to find out the reason behind that phrasing. It covers his radio & TV appearances (coach show, etc)
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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12-10-2021, 10:06 PM | #1941 | |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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I forget why, but it's been a standard way to account for coaching salaries for a long time now. It might have something to do with the annual publication of salaries at public universities, but in a case like this, you want people to know. |
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12-10-2021, 10:20 PM | #1942 | |||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Found a good explanation of it, I think. Making Sense of College Coaching Contracts | Athletic Director U Quote:
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That structure keeps things from getting crazy with regard to retirement and insurance, but also it allows the university to keep him exclusive for sponsors who are paying them (because of him) instead of having him do his own car dealer, restaurant, etc ads and devaluing the ones the university sells using his likeness.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 12-10-2021 at 10:21 PM. |
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12-11-2021, 02:35 PM | #1943 |
Hall Of Famer
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Location: Newburgh, NY
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I wish the star was on both sides of the helmet, but otherwise, I fuking love the Navy uniforms.
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12-11-2021, 05:27 PM | #1944 |
Hall Of Famer
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Kirby Smart issues statement on Dan Lanning leaving for Oregon, reveals DC's plans for Playoff
In his statement, Smart wishes Lanning and his family the best. He says Lanning will coach with the Dawgs during the Playoff, but Will Muschamp and Glenn Schumann will work as co-defensive coordinators:
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-12-2021, 05:42 AM | #1945 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Young did deserve the Heisman. Hope he does well in the NFL.
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12-12-2021, 09:09 AM | #1946 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
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Do college football fans still care about the Heisman winner?
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
12-12-2021, 09:41 AM | #1947 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
I didn't think there were still NCAA rules. I though the NCAA basically said "nope" for years. Then, when they had a court case that it looked like they would invariably lose, rather than crafting a framework in that time as a backup plan, instead they threw their hands up and said "do what you want". SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 12-12-2021 at 09:43 AM. |
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12-12-2021, 09:56 PM | #1948 |
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Bo Nix has entered the portal as a graduate transfer and will leave Auburn.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-12-2021, 09:57 PM | #1949 |
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Only if they have a contender / pretender
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
12-12-2021, 11:21 PM | #1950 |
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Within a couple hours of the Bo Nix news, at least a couple of sites report that Tank Bigsby will also enter the transfer portal.
That's a much bigger blow to AU and, given the steady stream of exits on the past week, suggests to me that the players feel like the issues run deeper than what removing the woeful Mike Bobo will fix.
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