The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Bloomberg is filing to run in Dem primaries.

If he goes third party for the general, we can easily end up with Trump again.

Don't know much about Bloomberg other than he is a successful business man and seemingly an antithesis of Trump. Worth a look.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The reports of the Chinese government assigning men to live with and impregnate Uighur women, all in the name of racial purity, is fucking awful.

But it's not like it's bad enough to start jeopardizing profits.

Long history of Dems and Reps not doing much about this.

Jeopardizing profits? Unlikely, more like what do you realistically expect us to do about it ... get some sort of UN condemnation where China can veto anyway?

Let's face it, Uighur are not in our sphere of influence and there's not much we can do about it. Heartless as it sounds, better to try help the Rohingya where we stand a chance to stop it (or the Venezuelans where there is potential for a strategic benefit).

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Long history of Dems and Reps not doing much about this.

Jeopardizing profits? Unlikely, more like what do you realistically expect us to do about it ... get some sort of UN condemnation where China can veto anyway?

Let's face it, Uighur are not in our sphere of influence and there's not much we can do about it. Heartless as it sounds, better to try help the Rohingya where we stand a chance to stop it (or the Venezuelans where there is potential for a strategic benefit).

Ahh yes, the great Rwanda argument. Eh, there's not much we can do about it, and they don't have any real significance anyway sooooooo.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Ahh yes, the great Rwanda argument. Eh, there's not much we can do about it, and they don't have any real significance anyway sooooooo.

Rwanda was after Somalia. Yes, we could have done more, very little to have stopped us. We would have made a difference but understandably Clinton and the country was gun shy.

(We can definitely make a difference with Rohingyas if we wanted to take the leadership in the world stage ... what trade do we do with Myanmar anyway).

Uighur inside China? Raise more awareness is about it on a practical matter. Its unfortunate that they live within the borders of the 2nd most powerful country who has already shown pretty good resistance to US pressure. What do you think we should do about it?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I love how in the Trump statement about the lawsuit resolution over his Foundation he makes it seem like he was the hero here personally and proudly donating the $2 million to those charities. Charities that were chosen by the judge and that have no connection to Trump. He had no say in that.

And once again it should be pointed out that under any other President this would be a huge story. One that might give cause for impeachment in and of itself. But under Trump, it is "Eh. Put it on the list."

BTW, the Clinton Foundation has "A+" plus rating as a charity.

[JPhillips]

JFC

Trump is thinking about going to Russia for the May Day parade.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

JFC

Trump is thinking about going to Russia for the May Day parade.

Maybe he can just stay there.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

JFC

Trump is thinking about going to Russia for the May Day parade.

Doubling down has continued to work for him. He will never stop on his own. He will either be forcibly stopped, or he will end up succeeding.

[Ben E Lou]

There's a thin line between epic trolling and rank stupidity...

[Ben E Lou]

There is NO bottom.

Donald Trump Jr writes that -- when he saw rows of graves at Arlington Cemetery -- he thought of...himself, and the business deals he had sacrificed.
"About all the sacrifices we’d have to make to help my father succeed."https://t.co/G5VMmQRc98

— David Fahrenthold (@Fahrenthold) November 8, 2019

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

There is NO bottom.

Donald Trump Jr writes that -- when he saw rows of graves at Arlington Cemetery -- he thought of...himself, and the business deals he had sacrificed.
"About all the sacrifices we’d have to make to help my father succeed."https://t.co/G5VMmQRc98

— David Fahrenthold (@Fahrenthold) November 8, 2019

I just threw up a little in my mouth after reading that.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

What do you think we should do about it?

Considering that there's nothing being done on the international or national level, I think it starts with raising awareness. I don't think that there's any kind of silver bullet. There's plenty of international pressure to bear should countries decide that it's worth. It's getting them there that should count.

[JPhillips]

All of the collusion continues to come out at the Roger Stone trial.

Bannon adds: "The campaign had no official access to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, but Roger would be considered an access point."

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

All of the collusion continues to come out at the Roger Stone trial.

Bannon is an interesting character. He's obviously alt-right for life, but he's been increasingly critical of Trump and his circle. Specifically, he's been critical of how they're handling impeachment. He stated that impeachment, even without removal, is likely the end of Trump's presidency and the "hoax" and "witch hunt" approach is going to fall apart as more information gets the public.

[PilotMan]

Bannon is playing a much, much larger game. trvmp is just a vehicle to use for a period of time. It benefits him to be able to use trvmp, but he knows that he still has a lot that he can do that doesn't involve him. For Bannon, it's about the world view, and he isn't married to whatever trvump has to offer, and he's no long directly tied to him at the moment either. His interview with Circus on Showtime showed him to be emotionally disengaged from the current US leadership and agenda.

[PilotMan]

This whole thing with Bolton I find to be very intriguing. Bolton has been a UN envoy, he's a big US hawk, who like to project US power with military force and directly or indirectly. The fact that we already know that his being fired almost directly coincides with the Ukraine stuff, that it is reported that he opposed and wanted no part in it, and after he left, trump threw him under the bus, makes what he has to say very interesting. We already know they are both big ego, big talking, personalities and there was a clear breakdown in the relationship. I have to wonder if which direction he's going to go and he's the last person I every would have picked to be a position to do real, long lasting damage to trump's presidency.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

This whole thing with Bolton I find to be very intriguing. Bolton has been a UN envoy, he's a big US hawk, who like to project US power with military force and directly or indirectly. The fact that we already know that his being fired almost directly coincides with the Ukraine stuff, that it is reported that he opposed and wanted no part in it, and after he left, trump threw him under the bus, makes what he has to say very interesting. We already know they are both big ego, big talking, personalities and there was a clear breakdown in the relationship. I have to wonder if which direction he's going to go and he's the last person I every would have picked to be a position to do real, long lasting damage to trump's presidency.

I can't tell which way he's leaning either. I think most of the evidence/history points to him torpedoing Trump....but I could also see him thinking that he could/should be the one to salvage the husk of the GOP with some kind of political theater.

[JPhillips]

TX GOP legislator introduced a bill ending public voting for judges and replacing it with governor appointments.

Only for cities with a population over 500k.

The GOP is becoming more and more wedded to the idea of apartheid.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

TX GOP legislator introduced a bill ending public voting for judges and replacing it with governor appointments.

Only for cities with a population over 500k.

The GOP is becoming more and more wedded to the idea of apartheid.

I don't think the Equal Protection Clause actually allows that.

But who knows, maybe McTurtleFucker has successfully packed the judiciary with enough Trump loyalists who wouldn't know the law from their ass with both hands and a flashlight that they could actually get the courts' blessing on that.

[Ben E Lou]

This right here should forever debunk the "anyone can rap" argument.


That said, I disagree vehemently with Jordan. Following his suggestion would be a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions.

This should be played on a loop at Gitmo. pic.twitter.com/5ilkVCOIK2

— Josh Jordan (@NumbersMuncher) November 9, 2019

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This right here should forever debunk the "anyone can rap" argument.

Ouch, my ears are still hurting (but kinda funny).

[Edward64]

Some controversy whether or not she is a US citizen (I think she is since she had a US passport). Not sure what the laws say or will conclude about US ISIL folks coming back to the US but pretty clear that there are some lines you do not cross and she crossed them.

So good luck with her 4th husband.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u...hance-n1075046

AL-ROJ CAMP, Syria — An American-born woman who once urged jihadists in America to "go on drivebys, and spill all of their blood," says she "regrets every single thing" and believes she should be given the option to return to the United States with her young son.

“Anyone that believes in God believes that everyone deserves a second chance, no matter how harmful their sins were,” Hoda Muthana, 25, said in a wide-ranging interview with NBC News from a refugee camp in Syria where she and her 2-year-old son, Adam, live in a tent.

Muthana, who left her home in Alabama to join the Islamic State militant group in 2014 and married three fighters, is one of a number of Western extremists who present a headache to their governments as they want to return home.
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Earlier this year, President Donald Trump tweeted that he had instructed Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to refuse Muthana’s re-entry into the U.S.

"Ms. Hoda Muthana is not a U.S. citizen and will not be admitted into the United States," Pompeo told NBC News earlier this year.

“She’s a terrorist,'' he added.

Although she was born in New Jersey, and traveled to Syria with her U.S. passport, the government argue she should never have been considered a citizen in the first place as she was the daughter of a diplomat serving for the Yemeni government at the time.

The children of foreign diplomats based in the U.S. are excluded from the right to citizenship by birthright.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Some controversy whether or not she is a US citizen (I think she is since she had a US passport). Not sure what the laws say or will conclude about US ISIL folks coming back to the US but pretty clear that there are some lines you do not cross and she crossed them.

So good luck with her 4th husband.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u...hance-n1075046

If both her parents were Yemeni, then she is not a citizen. I have no problem not allowing her to return, and any citizen returning in her situation should be imprisoned for sedition at the very least.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

This right here should forever debunk the "anyone can rap" argument.


That said, I disagree vehemently with Jordan. Following his suggestion would be a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions.

How in the hot heck do you embed a tweet like that?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

How in the hot heck do you embed a tweet like that?

Copy the embed code from the upper right corner of the tweet and then paste it into FOFC reply.

[spleen1015]

This is a test.

Sexual pervert Anthony Weiner has zero business holding public office.

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 10, 2013

[GrantDawg]

Ok, I.will try that again. The last time I tried, it didn't work for some reason.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[JPhillips]

I still can't get over Alabama. pic.twitter.com/RkWv2lKelI

— Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) November 10, 2019

[QuikSand]

So, nobody's really talking about Iran and nukes. It's another really fascinating case study in Trump/TeamTrump's understanding of modern politics.

Let's start with two things that nearly everyone can agree on:

-complicated things are complicated, meaning most people won't take the time to really understand them... not 55% but, like, nearly everyone

-it's fundamentally easier to be against something new and attack it than to be for something and defend it

So, start from there. Obama led a coalition to work out a deal to cease Iran's nuclear ambitions. I can't tell you more than that, it's a complicated topic, I don't have time to try to research it and come up with my own assessment. I know Israel wasn't thrilled, but I know a lot of people signed off on it being a way to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear weapon state.

Trump on the campaign trail offered a one word analysis, countless times: "disaster." In what way? According to whom? No, that's not what we do. We're not going to debate fairly, we're just going to take a far-out stance. That accomplished several things, but the most noteworthy is that it makes it very hard and risky to disagree with him. If Clinton had gone into a lengthy defense of the treaty/deal, she runs the risk of looking too wonky, or worse of defending every tiny facet of what I'm sure was a very, very complicated arrangement. That's too great a risk, and it works. Trump gets to convince his followers that he's an expert "deal maker" and that this is a bad one, and nobody of consequence stands up to say he's full of shit.

So, now, we've pulled out of the deal. So has Iran. They have just re-launched their most aggressive enrichment site, and we can't say boo about it. But, you know, at least we got rid of that "disaster" that... umm...uhh...had shut down their high-level enrichment activity.

I don't claim to know what is right here, it may well have been a bad deal. But whether that's true is obviously incidental to Cult 45. If some disingenuous wordplay is what it takes to convince a few more Wisconsinites that the libs are cucks, and doing so later requires grave risk to the middle east and maybe all humanity, well so be it.

Dammit.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Some controversy whether or not she is a US citizen (I think she is since she had a US passport). Not sure what the laws say or will conclude about US ISIL folks coming back to the US but pretty clear that there are some lines you do not cross and she crossed them.

So good luck with her 4th husband.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u...hance-n1075046

The citizenship is tricky. She wouldn't be a citizen if her father was a diplomat here. The claim is that her father was relieved of his diplomatic position a month prior to her birth. This would make her a citizen.

The US has gone back and forth on whether she is a citizen. If she is determined a citizen, they can't bar her from entry. She should absolutely be charged with whatever applicable crimes she committed when she does step on US soil.

This is a good legal breakdown.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/hoda-mut...tion-us-and-uk

[JPhillips]

I just don't want the executive branch determining citizenship, there needs to be a process.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I just don't want the executive branch determining citizenship, there needs to be a process.

Doesn't matter to me in this situation. Either she stays out or comes back and is charged and tried. She made her bed.

[Thomkal]

Lt Vindiman removed from NSC after his testimony on Ukraine. On the day before Veterans Day.

[Ironhead]

Growing up I remember watching my grandfather turn red in the face angry when he would start talking about events that happened in politics 30 years prior. It was still raw and deeply personal to him despite all of the time that had passed.

I never understood it...until now. What the Republicans are doing now will define my view of them for next 30 years. And 30 years from now when I think back to this time period it will still make my blood boil.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

Growing up I remember watching my grandfather turn red in the face angry when he would start talking about events that happened in politics 30 years prior. It was still raw and deeply personal to him despite all of the time that had passed.

I never understood it...until now. What the Republicans are doing now will define my view of them for next 30 years. And 30 years from now when I think back to this time period it will still make my blood boil.

And the dems are lily white.

I hope you look back and get pissed at the general BS that is american politics. A bunch of clowns cow towing to get the corporate buck.

Yep that is worth being pissed in 30 years when we are all slaves to the corporate bosses.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, nobody's really talking about Iran and nukes. It's another really fascinating case study in Trump/TeamTrump's understanding of modern politics.

Let's start with two things that nearly everyone can agree on:

-complicated things are complicated, meaning most people won't take the time to really understand them... not 55% but, like, nearly everyone

-it's fundamentally easier to be against something new and attack it than to be for something and defend it

So, start from there. Obama led a coalition to work out a deal to cease Iran's nuclear ambitions. I can't tell you more than that, it's a complicated topic, I don't have time to try to research it and come up with my own assessment. I know Israel wasn't thrilled, but I know a lot of people signed off on it being a way to keep Iran from becoming a nuclear weapon state.

Trump on the campaign trail offered a one word analysis, countless times: "disaster." In what way? According to whom? No, that's not what we do. We're not going to debate fairly, we're just going to take a far-out stance. That accomplished several things, but the most noteworthy is that it makes it very hard and risky to disagree with him. If Clinton had gone into a lengthy defense of the treaty/deal, she runs the risk of looking too wonky, or worse of defending every tiny facet of what I'm sure was a very, very complicated arrangement. That's too great a risk, and it works. Trump gets to convince his followers that he's an expert "deal maker" and that this is a bad one, and nobody of consequence stands up to say he's full of shit.

So, now, we've pulled out of the deal. So has Iran. They have just re-launched their most aggressive enrichment site, and we can't say boo about it. But, you know, at least we got rid of that "disaster" that... umm...uhh...had shut down their high-level enrichment activity.

I don't claim to know what is right here, it may well have been a bad deal. But whether that's true is obviously incidental to Cult 45. If some disingenuous wordplay is what it takes to convince a few more Wisconsinites that the libs are cucks, and doing so later requires grave risk to the middle east and maybe all humanity, well so be it.

Dammit.

If I remember correctly, he kept saying "disaster", but he also claimed there was billions of dollars in payments made to Iran. There was even a story of the chief US negotiator literally handing a billion dollars over in a brief case (which was obviously not true). I believe what actually happened was the Western powers unfroze billions in assets, but all his people heard was their tax dollars going to a foreign power.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

And the dems are lily white.

I hope you look back and get pissed at the general BS that is american politics. A bunch of clowns cow towing to get the corporate buck.

Yep that is worth being pissed in 30 years when we are all slaves to the corporate bosses.

Pretty sure the GOP just set the “corporate bosses” up for good with their tax plan shenanigans.

[Thomkal]

We've been talking about the possibility of GOP retirements after the Kentucky election results, there has been at least one, a fairly big name too House GOP Peter King from Long Island after 14 terms will not be seeking a 15th.

[PilotMan]

As much as Bevin lost because of who he is, and because of enough people just not liking him, and he only lost because the Libertarians siphoned off 20k votes from him, and that cycle isn't likely to last super long into the future. Had Bevin not been a dick, or dumped his Lt Gov he wins. As much as this doesn't translate to trump, it also kind of does. He has a problem with people just plain disliking him. That sort of thing is exactly the same problem Bevin had, and it is perhaps, the biggest takeaway in Kentucky.

[JPhillips]

Saw this on twitter.

241 GOPers were elected to the House with Donald Trump. As of today 101 have either retired, been defeated, or announced their retirement.

ETTD

[Edward64]

Saw this in the news today. Essentially, Trump's S&P returns after 3 years, using election day vs inaugural day, is #4 of Presidents since Hoover (see chart in link).

Obviously a lot more to play out before a final reckoning but still a good trend for folks in the stock market.

How Trump’s Stock Market Record Stacks Up

The indices most cited in the media also mainly reflect the fortunes of the largest corporations; even as the Dow and S&P 500 have been setting new records lately, the small-cap Russell 2000 is down 9% from its peak in August 2018.
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Some prefer to track stock market performance from Inauguration Day, and CNN has a handy online tracker that already does this for Trump and the last few presidents. Trump argues that one should measure from Election Day, and while he surely does so mainly because it makes him look better, he also happens to be right. Market indices are forward-looking metrics, and were already reflecting investors’ opinions on a Trump presidency on Nov. 9, 2016.
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Stock market performance in first three years since Trump’s election, then, ranks fourth among the 14 elected presidents since Herbert Hoover. That’s pretty good! It’s worth noting, though, that there’s not a whole lot separating him from John F. Kennedy, Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush. A bad week or two, and he could easily fall to eighth place. On the other hand, falling to ninth would take some work, as would catching up to Dwight Eisenhower for third. Put into letter grades, I’d give the market’s performance since Trump’s election a solid B.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Saw this in the news today. Essentially, Trump's S&P returns after 3 years, using election day vs inaugural day, is #4 of Presidents since Hoover (see chart in link).

Obviously a lot more to play out before a final reckoning but still a good trend for folks in the stock market.

How Trump’s Stock Market Record Stacks Up

So....which is it?



1) This is fantastic. People made shitloads of money and the market is fantastic and there is nothing anyone can say to take that away. He deserves all the praise because without him, there is nothing, and we're all poor.


2) He cut taxes for all of these companies resulting in massive bull market deficits. Massive. Like, the kind of deficit the last president got crushed for, during a massive recession. All this is just make believe, because when this bubble bursts, there's no way it's not going to be a difficult recovery.





No president has ever handed out trillion dollar stimulus packages during bull market economies. None. So yeah, live it up, take your cut, but that doesn't impact everyone. If you've got money, you're making tons more right now. It's easy, but those lazy poor people who work 2 jobs to pay rent and can't invest get nothing. Except, when the bust happens. Then they lose everything and the people with the money come in, buy it all up again, and resell it back to them when they get on their feet, if they're not homeless or dead.



The Great Recession was the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich. This is just setting us up for round two. How are trillion dollar deficits in an expanding, but slowing economy alright?


The market is still ripping along. I'm up almost 25% on the year, but the gdp is slowing. It's not even going more than 3% right now, and it never hit 5%. Obama had good returns too, so all this is still pimped from the stimulus. Obama couldn't even get a 200b stimulus passed when the economy was still trying to recover because the R's were all over his shit about the deficit. Now how are they?



The market is going to tank when trump loses because it knows what is coming. The end is near, and if he loses the next leader will have some very different ideas on how we should be handing out money to businesses and corporations. The whole point before was to avoid the instability and create stability that people could count on. The next crash is just going to prove that point all over again.

[Flasch186]

I find that always the crux of the argument. How many years are you allowed to go back to place blame or take credit and it seems the answer is whichever suits us best.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The market is going to tank when trump loses because it knows what is coming. The end is near, and if he loses the next leader will have some very different ideas on how we should be handing out money to businesses and corporations. The whole point before was to avoid the instability and create stability that people could count on. The next crash is just going to prove that point all over again.

Yup and the cycle just continues...gop screws up the economy, the dems are left to fix it but are blamed by the gop for the economy being screwed up. People will fall for the gop bullshit and vote them back in power and then they screw up the economy again or just make it worse because it wasn't fixed yet.

[Kodos]

Oooo. We are on page 666 now!

[JPhillips]

According to Trump, Ivanka is responsible for 14 million new jobs.

[RainMaker]

In shocking news, the guy who was mentored by Richard Spencer in college is a huge racist.

Stephen Miller’s Affinity for White Nationalism Revealed in Leaked Emails | Southern Poverty Law Center

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

In shocking news, the guy who was mentored by Richard Spencer in college is a huge racist.

Stephen Miller’s Affinity for White Nationalism Revealed in Leaked Emails | Southern Poverty Law Center

Stephen Miller being in Trump's circle needs to be highlighted and hammered by Dems. The fact that an obvious white supremacist has been one of Trumps closest advisors and primary policy makers has largely flown under the radar.

[JediKooter]

Sounds like a pretty deplorable person to me.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Stephen Miller being in Trump's circle needs to be highlighted and hammered by Dems. The fact that an obvious white supremacist has been one of Trumps closest advisors and primary policy makers has largely flown under the radar.

I see you’re an optimist, assuming this is a clear political winner for the Dems.