Sam Keller sues EA Sports and the NCAA

[Kodos]

The bulk of my video game time has gone into the NCAA series over the past five years. This is not good news.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Kodos

The bulk of my video game time has gone into the NCAA series over the past five years. This is not good news.

While I mock the dreads and the updated socks from the fanbase, I agree, this is not good. I use my console as my sports-playing device and NCAA along with The Show were my only must-buys each year.

[wade moore]

No College Football Video Game Next Year, Says EA Sports [Update]

[TroyF]

After lawyer fees, these guys are going to get a small amount and in exchange they kill the joy for thousands of people who play the games. Good for them, they must be very proud of themselves.

At least the last game in the series was good.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Not so fast...

BREAKING: @EASPORTS will NOT publish new college football game next year. Evaluating future of the franchise in wake of lawsuits #sportsbiz

— Scott Soshnick (@soshnick) September 26, 2013

This is fantastic news if true. Opens the door wide open for other options.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This is fantastic news if true. Opens the door wide open for other options.

Umm ... no.

That's pretty much the death knell for any meaningful/useful college sports game for the foreseeable future.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... no.

That's pretty much the death knell for any meaningful/useful college sports game for the foreseeable future.

No. You're just not going to see a licensed game, which is fine by me. These games are easily modded and you'll see fan packs where you can update the game. I've been hoping for this for several years. There's a huge void and you can be assured that someone will fill it.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

So Denard will be the last cover?

[chadritt]

unless the NCAA ever comes to an agreement with the players about licensing, once they do im sure the games will be back.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by TroyF

After lawyer fees, these guys are going to get a small amount and in exchange they kill the joy for thousands of people who play the games. Good for them, they must be very proud of themselves.

How is it their fault? EA was the company profiting off their likeness. Shouldn't people be allowed to be compensated for their likeness being used to sell something?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's a huge void and you can be assured that someone will fill it.

I disagree.

I don't believe any significant void exists for an unlicensed game.

[Neon_Chaos]

I think the fact that they wont ship a college game next year highlights how dependent their profits were on utilizing other people's likenesses to sell their product.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I think the fact that they wont ship a college game next year highlights how dependent their profits were on utilizing other people's likenesses to sell their product.

I don't think it was entirely that, thought it was a large part of it. I think it was also the fact that the NCAA, SEC, and Pac-12 I think it was, pulled out of the licensing agreement. While 150 schools did agree to continue the agreement with EA, including SEC schools, essentially this would have meant, at best, having a generic NCAA, SEC and Pac-12 logos, championship games, etc.

My guess is as part of this settlement, EA Sports would be required to come up with complete generic rosters, which, while doable, would be a massive timesink, both in terms of creating these guys, and in making sure that said created players don't run afoul of likenesses.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This is fantastic news if true. Opens the door wide open for other options.

Not really. You can talk about fanpacks and that all you like, but the quality, especially on the next-gen consoles, will not be the same as a licensed game, and most players will complain about it.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I don't think it was entirely that, thought it was a large part of it. I think it was also the fact that the NCAA, SEC, and Pac-12 I think it was, pulled out of the licensing agreement. While 150 schools did agree to continue the agreement with EA, including SEC schools, essentially this would have meant, at best, having a generic NCAA, SEC and Pac-12 logos, championship games, etc.

My guess is as part of this settlement, EA Sports would be required to come up with complete generic rosters, which, while doable, would be a massive timesink, both in terms of creating these guys, and in making sure that said created players don't run afoul of likenesses.

Make every roster identical out of the box, with every player 7'6" tall, 100 pounds, and with green skin and a 70 OVR rating.

Then make roster modification a simple CSV import via the USB hub. The community will take care of the roster situation.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Izulde

My guess is as part of this settlement, EA Sports would be required to come up with complete generic rosters, which, while doable, would be a massive timesink, both in terms of creating these guys, and in making sure that said created players don't run afoul of likenesses.

It's actually CHEAPER to create generic, random rosters than to go through and make everyone match their real-life counterparts.

To avoid running afoul of likenesses, yes you might still create a database of player numbers, heights, and weights, and as you generate players you just check for a conflict and adjust one of those (or all of them).

[BillJasper]

I think two things will stop any publisher/developer from putting out a game in the near future:

1. Development costs. That is going to be a huge hurdle.

2. People simply aren't willing to buy the generic games anymore. Look how badly All-Pro Football 2K8 crashed and burned. That was with everyone clamoring for something to play other than Madden.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Make every roster identical out of the box, with every player 7'6" tall, 100 pounds, and with green skin and a 70 OVR rating.

Then make roster modification a simple CSV import via the USB hub. The community will take care of the roster situation.

It's kind of crazy that they didn't just go with randomized players years ago when they realized lawsuits were on the horizon. Just make it easy to download community rosters and someone would have had them up within a week of launch. Making the players identical with the exception of their name (which was built-in to

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not a big shock there. Most liberal court in the land.

Not trying to introduce a ton of politics here, just noting that a ruling like this from them isn't a surprise (as it seems to be to some)

This is awhile back, but I'm not sure how that's a liberal decision. I really think if it went all the way up to the Supreme Court, there'd be a good chance of unanimous decisions.

Politics has entered it, although it seems like both sides are willing to jump ship if they have a vested interest in the decision. It is kind of funny seeing those on the right all of a sudden hating the free market.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think two things will stop any publisher/developer from putting out a game in the near future:

1. Development costs. That is going to be a huge hurdle.

2. People simply aren't willing to buy the generic games anymore. Look how badly All-Pro Football 2K8 crashed and burned. That was with everyone clamoring for something to play other than Madden.

Agreed. This is the end of college sports on consoles.

[Kodos]

I swear that The Ladder willl go on until they shut down the servers!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It is kind of funny seeing those on the right all of a sudden hating the free market.

Only thing funnier than that is someone on a message board lumping everyone with conservative beliefs under the beliefs of JimGa in regards to video game licensing.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I swear that The Ladder willl go on until they shut down the servers!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

2. People simply aren't willing to buy the generic games anymore. Look how badly All-Pro Football 2K8 crashed and burned. That was with everyone over 30 clamoring for something to play other than Madden.

Fixed.

Licenses are king with the under 30 crowd. They'll buy a half-ass game with team names and players over a good generic game. But if there's no licensed game, those people could be persuaded if there's a mod engine that allows them to get those things into their game.

Now, I haven't seen anything in the ruling related to modding by the community. As long as modding is allowed, I see a one year hiatus (no way to start a new game now) followed by a game in summer of 2015.

Some of the comments regarding development cost are also very short-sighted. There's going to be a change in the near future where athletes get paid at some level. One of the concessions in that will have to be that likenesses can be used. It's worth it right now for a game developer to become the only guy on the block for a year or two with generic rosters/leagues knowing that when that tide turns, they'll be in position to take advantage of it.

EA is too lazy to create a generic game. Their management has always been short sighted in this regard and this decision to can the game even though it's not court-ordered is no different. They know that licenses sell games even if the gameplay is average at best. They're known for cutting corners and re-skinning games just to keep the cash cow running. They don't have a clue that a well produced game will sell just as well.

And I don't want to hear comparisons to All-Pro Football either. That was a disaster from the start. Pushing all those legends in the game rather than just producing a good generic football game was just as stupid as EA's decision to rely on licensing rather than good gameplay.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Fixed.

Licenses are king with the under 30 crowd. They'll buy a half-ass game with team names and players over a good generic game. But if there's no licensed game, those people could be persuaded if there's a mod engine that allows them to get those things into their game.

Now, I haven't seen anything in the ruling related to modding by the community. As long as modding is allowed, I see a one year hiatus (no way to start a new game now) followed by a game in summer of 2015.

Some of the comments regarding development cost are also very short-sighted. There's going to be a change in the near future where athletes get paid at some level. One of the concessions in that will have to be that likenesses can be used. It's worth it right now for a game developer to become the only guy on the block for a year or two with generic rosters/leagues knowing that when that tide turns, they'll be in position to take advantage of it.

EA is too lazy to create a generic game. Their management has always been short sighted in this regard and this decision to can the game even though it's not court-ordered is no different. They know that licenses sell games even if the gameplay is average at best. They're known for cutting corners and re-skinning games just to keep the cash cow running. They don't have a clue that a well produced game will sell just as well.

And I don't want to hear comparisons to All-Pro Football either. That was a disaster from the start. Pushing all those legends in the game rather than just producing a good generic football game was just as stupid as EA's decision to rely on licensing rather than good gameplay.

The problem with a generic game is that I don't think they will allow it to be customizable enough so that people could recreate the Div 1. I would imagine that if they make it too easy (like have team builder, imported graphics, etc) they would be accepting a big risk. I would think that the most they would allow would be allowing a few created players, some generic team names and maybe the ability to customize the team type (spread, power running, etc.). If they really open it up I would think they're opening themselves up to more legal action.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by nilodor

The problem with a generic game is that I don't think they will allow it to be customizable enough so that people could recreate the Div 1. I would imagine that if they make it too easy (like have team builder, imported graphics, etc) they would be accepting a big risk. I would think that the most they would allow would be allowing a few created players, some generic team names and maybe the ability to customize the team type (spread, power running, etc.). If they really open it up I would think they're opening themselves up to more legal action.

Like I said, we really haven't seen what the ruling was to know how far this goes. I can't imagine that creating a similarly structured league would be covered in any way under this ruling to be honest. This is about likenesses. If you do the NCAA structure with randomly generated players, I find it hard to believe that it would be restricted by this ruling.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Like I said, we really haven't seen what the ruling was to know how far this goes. I can't imagine that creating a similarly structured league would be covered in any way under this ruling to be honest. This is about likenesses. If you do the NCAA structure with randomly generated players, I find it hard to believe that it would be restricted by this ruling.

Maybe you should check out Maximum Football.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I swear that The Ladder willl go on until they shut down the servers!

Sweet...I do wonder if we should all make sure we have NCAA 14 though...as I suspect in time it will get scarce...and thenthye may shut down server support for NCAA 13...

Then again, I wonder if a work around may be paid for "updates" that revamp portions of the game each year.

Will not publish "NEW" game..doesn't say wont update current...

[BillJasper]

How do you even promote a generic football game now when the expectations have been so raised by Madden and NCAA Football that you are getting an authentic experience?

"Kind-sorta like College Football 2016"!

[RainMaker]

Players are eventually going to be able to make money in the future. When that happens, EA or whoever will just license a group that all the players sign on to (just as they license the schools and conferences). I really don't think this is the end of college sports on consoles at all. Just waiting on the NCAA to catch up with the times.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

How do you even promote a generic football game now when the expectations have been so raised by Madden and NCAA Football that you are getting an authentic experience?

"Kind-sorta like College Football 2016"!

You call it college football and market the customization aspect.

The biggest problem and hardest to replicate thing if you can't even get the schools to sign on is getting an accurate stadium for each team. Which is a huge part of the college experience. If you can get those in the game then everything else is easily handled by crowd-sourced customization.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Players are eventually going to be able to make money in the future. When that happens, EA or whoever will just license a group that all the players sign on to (just as they license the schools and conferences). I really don't think this is the end of college sports on consoles at all. Just waiting on the NCAA to catch up with the times.

Question is: how long will it take for the NCAA to catch up with the times? Does the various NCAA series generate so much cash for them that they will turn the tide?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

The biggest problem and hardest to replicate thing if you can't even get the schools to sign on is getting an accurate stadium for each team. Which is a huge part of the college experience. If you can get those in the game then everything else is easily handled by crowd-sourced customization.

Which is great for those of us that like customization. But what about the casual buyers who likely outnumber the people like us 20-1? Are they even going to give "Kinda-sorta College Football 2016" a second glance?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Question is: how long will it take for the NCAA to catch up with the times? Does the various NCAA series generate so much cash for them that they will turn the tide?

Lawsuits will speed it along. Only so long you can profit off someone's likeness without getting caught. As those revenue streams fold up, they'll realize it's either partner with the players and get something or don't and get nothing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

You call it college football and market the customization aspect.

The biggest problem and hardest to replicate thing if you can't even get the schools to sign on is getting an accurate stadium for each team. Which is a huge part of the college experience. If you can get those in the game then everything else is easily handled by crowd-sourced customization.

I don't understand why they can't go back to the old model with licensed schools, stadiums, etc and just make all the players actual generic models that don't share likeness with the real ones. I'm sure people who care about that will be able to find a download somewhere.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Which is great for those of us that like customization. But what about the casual buyers who likely outnumber the people like us 20-1? Are they even going to give "Kinda-sorta College Football 2016" a second glance?

Sure, it would sell fewer copies. But it would still sell enough, but that's obviously just my opinion.

[nilodor]

Do you think that they will be able to allow the level of customization that would allow a replica league to be created? Wouldn't that get them in a mess if by the time the game ships people have created a defacto NCAA with full rosters that look like the players, have the ncaa logos, etc? I would think that there would be come complications there.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Guess it's time for TCY2

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by nilodor

Do you think that they will be able to allow the level of customization that would allow a replica league to be created? Wouldn't that get them in a mess if by the time the game ships people have created a defacto NCAA with full rosters that look like the players, have the ncaa logos, etc? I would think that there would be come complications there.

There's nothing that keeps them from creating a mod engine where people can create whatever structure they like. It's no different that what you used to see with generic NCAA or NFL games. They can create the structure and the NCAA or the courts aren't going to have any issues with that. They can also create an import feature where they can create teams/players to import into a game. If you were to do that and import that into the generic game (assuming you weren't charging anyone for that import), then you're not out of line. No one is profiting from a likeness in that situation. If you create a mod file with likenesses/licensed logos and you sell it, then you have the same problem EA has right now and would face the same issues.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by nilodor

Do you think that they will be able to allow the level of customization that would allow a replica league to be created? Wouldn't that get them in a mess if by the time the game ships people have created a defacto NCAA with full rosters that look like the players, have the ncaa logos, etc? I would think that there would be come complications there.

Disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer.

That said, I really don't see how this would be a problem. The players can't make a valid argument against allowing EA (or others) to provide a way for the buyer to customize/create their own players. And if the buyers decide they're going to try to replicate real players, well, that's their prerogative.

It's what EA should have been doing from the start. Mod communities would have sprung up to provide "real" rosters and ratings, and EA (and the NCAA) would have been off the hook for any potential liabilities.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How is it their fault? EA was the company profiting off their likeness. Shouldn't people be allowed to be compensated for their likeness being used to sell something?

The sites I looked at today stated each player will get about $200.00 Unlike jerseys or other types of school related flair, every player in the NCAA game gets a cut. How are you going to differentiate between who bought the game because of wanting to play with Johnny Manziel vs. the guy who bought the game because his son was the third TE on North Texas?

While these games are goldmines, they aren't enough of it to make every DI player get thousands of dollars a year off of them. So these guys killed a game that I can assure you many of their peers played while at school and still play to this day because they wanted their little cut.

They have the right to do it. Good for them. I truly mean that. If getting $200 - taxes is a win for them, they got it. They didn't change anything. The players are not going to get money anytime soon. For starters, every school doesn't have money to give. Beyond that, the schools are not giving up their cut. They simply aren't.

Everyone is comparing this to Curt Flood. . . sorry, that's wrong. This will not change anything other than NCAA football not being produced and maybe players names not being printed on the back of jerseys at the team store.

If that's what they were going for, they got the W. Congrats to Ed on his $200.00 check. Yippee.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This will not change anything other than NCAA football not being produced and maybe players names not being printed on the back of jerseys at the team store.
.

I'm pretty sure the names not on back of the jerseys is already in place as a preservation of amateurism.

And it will change things if the suit itself is successful against the NCAA. Granted, to make this a complete slam dunk (pun intended), they'll need to get some current basketball players to join in order to really be able to go after the true source of revenue.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I'm pretty sure the names not on back of the jerseys is already in place as a preservation of amateurism.

And it will change things if the suit itself is successful against the NCAA. Granted, to make this a complete slam dunk (pun intended), they'll need to get some current basketball players to join in order to really be able to go after the true source of revenue.

Yeah, sorry, I'm not buying it. The NCAA is not going to be giving any part of their pie of basketball money to the players. Not in this lifetime. This was EA using their likeness for financial gain. The NCAA using a kid on a game cover or in a commercial for the NCAA tourney? Yeah, good luck with that.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Yeah, sorry, I'm not buying it. The NCAA is not going to be giving any part of their pie of basketball money to the players. Not in this lifetime. This was EA using their likeness for financial gain. The NCAA using a kid on a game cover or in a commercial for the NCAA tourney? Yeah, good luck with that.

If they don't settle, then the courts decide. It'll be interesting to see if EA and CLC do anything further after this settlement, or if they just stay out of it.

I still think O'Bannon and co have a very strong chance of winning here.

[Danny]

Do these players suing have Harvey Spector on their side?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Izulde

If they don't settle, then the courts decide. It'll be interesting to see if EA and CLC do anything further after this settlement, or if they just stay out of it.

I still think O'Bannon and co have a very strong chance of winning here.

I think it is zilch. I can see the NCAA and teams selling to commercial vendors to use their likeness.

If they do win, it will be a clinical disaster for college sports. It will end any "small" sport from being on TV. Really, ESPN is going to air the soccer championships. What, is the NCAA going to pay ESPN to air them? Please.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I think it is zilch. I can see the NCAA and teams selling to commercial vendors to use their likeness.

If they do win, it will be a clinical disaster for college sports. It will end any "small" sport from being on TV. Really, ESPN is going to air the soccer championships. What, is the NCAA going to pay ESPN to air them? Please.

That would depend on how far-reaching the ruling is. I could see where they limit any win by the plantiffs to the revenue sports of football and men's basketball.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Izulde

That would depend on how far-reaching the ruling is. I could see where they limit any win by the plantiffs to the revenue sports of football and men's basketball.

I can't. How would you regulate that? If suddenly the swim meets become huge because of Missy Franklin at Cal and the ratings blow up, Missy gets nothing out of it because at one time swimming wasn't a revenue sport?

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I can't. How would you regulate that? If suddenly the swim meets become huge because of Missy Franklin at Cal and the ratings blow up, Missy gets nothing out of it because at one time swimming wasn't a revenue sport?

You're talking about something that isn't going to happen. The revenue sports are football and men's basketball, period. Perhaps women's basketball and men's ice hockey at some schools, but that's about it.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If they do win, it will be a clinical disaster for college sports. It will end any "small" sport from being on TV. Really, ESPN is going to air the soccer championships. What, is the NCAA going to pay ESPN to air them? Please.

No it won't. This lawsuit isn't about every athlete getting paid X amount. Or even about the school's paying the athlete directly. It's about price fixing.

Nothing will change on your television. Players will just be able to earn money off their likeness. You are using baseless scare tactics that has nothing to do with the case.