Yet another school shooting.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Is this not a mental health issue?

Yeah it's weird how only this country has mentally ill people. All those other counties where this doesn't happen every single day got lucky.

[RainMaker]

Just a complete garbage country.

The agonized screams of family members are audible from the parking lot

— Niki Griswold (@nikigriswold) May 25, 2022

[RainMaker]

Congressman

We know already fool. It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos. It’s apparently your kind of trash. https://t.co/kXZFCp91Ib

— Paul Gosar (@DrPaulGosar) May 25, 2022

[miami_fan]

I know the authorities' request is a reason. I think I know the PR reason for taking down the suspect's (can't call him a murderer remember?) Instagram page but it does not make any sense to me. If you are taking down the page now because something on the page is problematic, why did you wait until after the school shooting to take it down. Was something added on there during the shooting or immediately after the shooting? If it was problematic before the shooting why did you leave it up there? It just has a bolt the barn door after the herd has escaped sort of feel to me.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

It's not unusual for rural school districts to have odd school groupings. I went to 1 school from K-3, a different one 4-5, a different one 6-8, and then a different one for high school.

Wow, I had no clue. Thanks for the info.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Yeah it's weird how only this country has mentally ill people. All those other counties where this doesn't happen every single day got lucky.

So sad to see the news this morning. We have plenty of mentally ill people in the UK. An 18 year old just doesn't have the option of grabbing an AR, or any gun for that matter. He might throw himself on a train track or worse case scenario stab someone.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

True, and the gun lobby will fight like hell regardless, but if anything is going to cost them they will really up the intensity of resistance. Maybe start small and bring something like that later.

That’s why nothing will be given in the first place, however reasonable like your earlier suggestions - that is the NRA’s exact argument: the inch now becomes a mile later.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Mental health is a part of a number of issues that lead to mass shootings. As a country we don't have a monopoly on mental health issues but we do have one on mass shootings.

It’s a gun issue period.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Is this not a mental health issue?

Sure, in the same way that Tom Brady's lack of mobility in the pocket has been detrimental to his career.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Galaril

It’s a gun issue period.

So the gun just walked into the school and started shooting?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So the gun just walked into the school and started shooting?

No. But it any other country in the world, a kid bullied about his stuttering does not have access to firearms to walk into a school and start executing kids and teachers.

[albionmoonlight]

Every other civilized country in the world has figured this out. Make it hard to get guns. Make it hard to get body armor. You reduce the mass murder of innocents. This is a problem with a trivially simple solution that has successfully been done around the world.

If the response by some folks is that they'd prefer it to be easy to obtain guns and body armor and slaughtering a bunch of kids 4-5 times a year is the price they are willing to pay, then I strongly disagree with that. But at least it's honest. I'm willing to accept tens of thousands of traffic deaths per year in exchange for a world with cars. But I don't try to pretend that it isn't a choice. Or that we'd have the same number of fatal crashes with horses and bicycles.

Pretending that this issue is complicated insults our intelligence.

Engaging the "guns don't kill people; people kill people" crowd at this point is not just useless; it is actively harmful b/c it distracts for the debates we should be having.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So the gun just walked into the school and started shooting?

Yes, and that's why we need to ban guns.

[Kodos]

It is a mental health combined with access to guns issue. No guns and body armor = much lower body count.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Yes, and that's why we need to ban guns.

Although I'm sympathetic to the idea (even if it does offend my libertarian leanings) in theory.

Good luck with that. You and I both know that would cause a civil war and I would bet on the side with the guns winning.

[molson]

The United States is a lot different than other countries. Legislating away culture is difficult. The Obama years were the best years ever for the gun and ammo industries, and the Dems didn't even accomplish anything gun control-wise. If they actually managed to pass "reasonable gun control", the number of guns in the U.S. would explode again.

People love to cite that Onion article, but, it's unironically true.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Although I'm sympathetic to the idea (even if it does offend my libertarian leanings) in theory.

Good luck with that. You and I both know that would cause a civil war and I would bet on the side with the guns winning.

Oh I'm sorry, were we having a serious discussion, or talking about walking guns? I'm confused.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

You would think this presents a happy medium, nobody loses their AR-15, the party of law and order gets tougher prison sentences, and room can be made for these people by decriminalizing cannabis nationally, letting low level dealers/users out and expunging their records.

There is something both sides can sell, if they didn't insist on such an all or nothing game.

i also though about manufacturer liability, but that would be a death knell for sure, but yes I support it.

I like your proposal but would even say training is required every 2-3 years vs 10.

I do not support manufacturer liability on guns. Don't really see how that works unless there truly was negligence. I do think parents/guardians have more liability also.

However, even with all your proposals, would it have stopped this shooting?

Articles I've read said he purchased the weapons when he turned 18. Unsure if it was done legally though (probably).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Yes, and that's why we need to ban guns.

Nope. More gun control, restrictions, limitations etc. I can live with.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Nope. More gun control, restrictions, limitations etc. I can live with.

Can't say the same for those kids...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

However, even with all your proposals, would it have stopped this shooting?
.

We hear comments like this every time. Perhaps if we put measures in place after Sandy Hook, of Stoneman Douglas, this shooting wouldn't have happened.

There is no quick fix. We need a huge cultural shift as a nation away from gun fetishment. The quicker we make changes that can begin. It won't happen in a year or 5 years, but over generations but as long as we have the " would it have prevented X shooting" those changes will never be made.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Good lord. Herschel Walker starts his campaign by suggesting the massacre was faked.

And not a single GOPer will say a damned thing.

Where did you see that at?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Edward64

However, even with all your proposals, would it have stopped this shooting?

How about we try and find out. For fucks sake, I'm so tired of this line of thinking. CLEARLY doing NOTHING is not helping so how about we fucking try something.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

However, even with all your proposals, would it have stopped this shooting?

Nobody can say definitively yes or no, but with what the Buffalo shooter put our there, pretty good chance that would have been averted. We can't weigh on on this until more details come out, but the premise of "would this have helped" is why we are here.

The whole "We just have to accept this as collateral damage of our freedoms" is ridiculous, so instead of opining on whether it would have helped or not, let's at least try something. At some point lives will be saved and that in itself is worth the effort, over just thoughts and prayers and on to the next mass shooting, where more families are torn apart at the seams as the NRA determines their bribe allotments to congress.

[bhlloy]

2 cops engaged the shooter outside the school and were wounded and couldn’t stop him going in? Clearly it’s the ratio of good guys with guns to bad guys in tactical body armor with AR’s that needs to be tweaked amirite.

[Lathum]

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

2 cops engaged the shooter outside the school and were wounded and couldn’t stop him going in? Clearly it’s the ratio of good guys with guns to bad guys in tactical body armor with AR’s that needs to be tweaked amirite.

Sounds like they ran off to hide. Another bang up job by the fine men in blue.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

No. But it any other country in the world, a kid bullied about his stuttering does not have access to firearms to walk into a school and start executing kids and teachers.

Thanks for the response. This is spot on.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Every other civilized country in the world has figured this out. Make it hard to get guns. Make it hard to get body armor. You reduce the mass murder of innocents. This is a problem with a trivially simple solution that has successfully been done around the world.

If the response by some folks is that they'd prefer it to be easy to obtain guns and body armor and slaughtering a bunch of kids 4-5 times a year is the price they are willing to pay, then I strongly disagree with that. But at least it's honest. I'm willing to accept tens of thousands of traffic deaths per year in exchange for a world with cars. But I don't try to pretend that it isn't a choice. Or that we'd have the same number of fatal crashes with horses and bicycles.

Pretending that this issue is complicated insults our intelligence.

Engaging the "guns don't kill people; people kill people" crowd at this point is not just useless; it is actively harmful b/c it distracts for the debates we should be having.

The car thing is a common argument I'm seeing pop up on the right, but the difference is cars aren't designed to kill while that's the only purpose of guns.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The car thing is a common argument I'm seeing pop up on the right, but the difference is cars aren't designed to kill while that's the only purpose of guns.

And it's a real argument. Cars make the world a more dangerous place. I'm willing to accept that for the value they provide.

My issue (well, one of my issues) with the gun folks is that they refuse to acknowledge that it is a trade off.

[Atocep]

You can tell tragedies like this scare the hard line gun owners that something might actually happen with gun control. I've seen the them throw so much shit against the wall trying to see what narrative sticks.

I think the most telling example of how morally corrupt these people are is how quick they were to assume this was a border control issue. Since a border control agent ended the shooting the story they initially ran with on social media was the border agent was chasing an illegal that crossed the border. Not even stopping to think how absolutely absurd that is.

[larrymcg421]

There are also licensing and registration requirements for car owners and tons of regulations and requirements for car manufacturers.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Edward64

However, even with all your proposals, would it have stopped this shooting?

Yeah, it's a shame we have no example of proposals working to which we could point.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

And it's a real argument. Cars make the world a more dangerous place. I'm willing to accept that for the value they provide.

My issue (well, one of my issues) with the gun folks is that they refuse to acknowledge that it is a trade off.

Cars do make the world a more dangerous place, but we're also continuously developing ways to make them safer and we do require a baseline proficiency and safety test before you can drive one legally.

When's the last time a gun maker tried to make a gun to kill less people? Back in the 80s the NRA was more about gun safety than making sure every single human being has the right to own a gun. I remember the NRA sponsoring gun safety classes in our schools where they had people come in and talk to classrooms.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

There are also licensing and registration requirements for car owners and tons of regulations and requirements for car manufacturers.

For many if not most states it is significantly harder to acquire a license to operate a motor vehicle than it is to purchase a firearm. Many red states, like Texas, have "shall issue" laws, which means a permit for firearm ownership must be issued if the applicant meets certain basic requirements (like age).

[RainMaker]

Texas Gov. Abbott: "It could have been worse."

— Neda Toloui-Semnani (@Neda_Semnani) May 25, 2022

[Atocep]

In state where you can permitless carry nearly anywhere, of course the NRA has banned guns at their leadership conference in Houston.

Ya know, because guns are fucking dangerous.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

And it's a real argument. Cars make the world a more dangerous place. I'm willing to accept that for the value they provide.

My issue (well, one of my issues) with the gun folks is that they refuse to acknowledge that it is a trade off.

Kind off hard to barricade a ford in a classroom and take out 20 kids though.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Texas Gov. Abbott: "It could have been worse."

— Neda Toloui-Semnani (@Neda_Semnani) May 25, 2022

That’s better than “thoughts and prayers” right?

When I hear these conservatives say that it really means “fuck you and your dead kids”

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

In state where you can permitless carry nearly anywhere, of course the NRA has banned guns at their leadership conference in Houston.

Ya know, because guns are fucking dangerous.

Easiest tell there is. They know how dangerous they are because they ban them.

[GrantDawg]

I wish I could vote for Beto. I would at least like to buy him a beer.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I wish I could vote for Beto. I would at least like to buy him a bear.

Well that seems uncharacteristically hostile for you.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Drake

Well that seems uncharacteristically hostile for you.

No, he likes bears. (edited to fix that)

[albionmoonlight]

Beto's likely to lose anyway, so I agree with the strategy of not extending civility to people who don't deserve it.

The typical red state Dem strategy of "I love conservative things just slightly less than Republicans" isn't going to work in a red wave environment. So why not say and do what you actually believe.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

We hear comments like this every time. Perhaps if we put measures in place after Sandy Hook, of Stoneman Douglas, this shooting wouldn't have happened.

There is no quick fix. We need a huge cultural shift as a nation away from gun fetishment. The quicker we make changes that can begin. It won't happen in a year or 5 years, but over generations but as long as we have the " would it have prevented X shooting" those changes will never be made.

This is exactly right. This isn't a simple, "Put gun laws in place and stop mass shootings." This needs to be treated like smoking. We need a multi-generational, long-term culture change that starts with common sense restrictions. These proposed laws aren't intended to be the be-all, end-all quick fix.

[Lathum]

apparently Beto just interrupted Abbots presser and went off on him to the point he was escorted out.

[RainMaker]

I like how Abbott wears a little fake sheriff costume for these press conferences

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Lathum

apparently Beto just interrupted Abbots presser and went off on him to the point he was escorted out.

Now this, this is good.

[Atocep]

I want to live in the timeline where Beto gets elected governor of Texas.

[Atocep]

For some reason the manufacturer of the AR15 that was used in the shooting went back and deleted this tweet from a few days ago.