01-04-2020, 03:16 PM | #20701 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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The West went in and drew lines on a map. That was stupid. This is religious tribalism as it has been for thousands of years. Why would anyone think this region would suddenly fall into a nationalistic type of thinking.
Dumb. Erase the lines, let the religions sort themselves out like they have forever.
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01-04-2020, 06:24 PM | #20702 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
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So what makes Trump’s twitter tirade and threats any different than one of any number of terrorist leaders videos threatening to do harm to America?
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Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal |
01-04-2020, 06:25 PM | #20703 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
Trump will draw new lines with a sharpie and all will be well.
__________________
"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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01-04-2020, 07:52 PM | #20704 |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
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01-04-2020, 08:43 PM | #20705 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I guess we were both wrong. It isn't primarily about oil, or about defense contractors & weapons sales. It's about skin color.
Colin Kaepernick Blasts U.S. Drone Strike On Iranian General As “American Imperialism” Quote:
It could also be about ... WTF? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rose-mc...sem-soleimani/ Quote:
Last edited by Edward64 : 01-04-2020 at 08:59 PM. |
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01-04-2020, 08:45 PM | #20706 | |||
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Backwoods, SC
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I have a dear long time friend who I've been exchanging messages with in a group chat all day. He had a few points I wanted to share that I think are pretty pertinent and I thought the group would appreciate.
He is active duty uniformed officer home based in NC. He loyally follows the oath to follow the instruction of our currentvexecutive branch...but he is not a fan. I'll say it that way. I did get his permission to share these comments without attributing to him. (Some of these comments are in response to statements questions in the group chat. But I am leaving these unedited for completenesss. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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01-04-2020, 10:49 PM | #20707 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
Thanks, By the time I post here at all I'm overly passionate and get a little crazy at times. I should have stopped at the first concise point I think the general idea that we should not feel as safe as we once did on home soil during any conflict is part of the consideration now, but past that yeah, I get your point completely. |
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01-04-2020, 10:50 PM | #20708 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
Thanks for sharing this. |
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01-04-2020, 10:56 PM | #20709 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA
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My reason for not voting for Trump, even though I hated the idea of Hillary was "Trump would be more likely to start world war 3"... I hope that doesn't end up being true...
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01-04-2020, 11:10 PM | #20710 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Huh? He's many things and some of them aren't complimentary, but I don't see how anyone can take even a cursory view of his accomplishments/life story and think he's a moron. |
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01-05-2020, 10:20 AM | #20711 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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01-05-2020, 10:23 AM | #20712 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Trump threatens to target 52 Iranian sites 'VERY FAST AND VERY HARD' if it retaliates against any American assets
One problem is striking cultural sites is against the rules of engagement for war that the US and other nations have signed up for. Also, that is what other countries do like the Taliban did in Afghanistan not the US. |
01-05-2020, 10:37 AM | #20713 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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It's really hard to claim we're the good guys at this point.
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01-05-2020, 10:39 AM | #20714 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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01-05-2020, 01:13 PM | #20715 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA
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Quote:
b'cause Amurka... |
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01-05-2020, 01:37 PM | #20716 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
I don't think he's a moron, but at this point I'm pretty sure he's a con-man.
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01-05-2020, 02:11 PM | #20717 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
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The BEST deal maker.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...120_story.html “ISTANBUL — Iran said Sunday that it is suspending all commitments under the 2015 nuclear deal it had struck with world powers and will abandon restrictions on uranium enrichment and other activities unless U.S. sanctions are lifted.“
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Fan of SF Giants, 49ers, Sharks, Arsenal Last edited by kingfc22 : 01-05-2020 at 02:11 PM. |
01-05-2020, 03:50 PM | #20718 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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01-05-2020, 04:13 PM | #20719 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Whittier
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Quote:
Roundabout way of ending the pointless time spent in Iraq |
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01-05-2020, 04:45 PM | #20720 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newbury, England
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Runs out of steam a little in the 2nd half, but up to and including the reference to killing people it seems very relevant!
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01-05-2020, 06:26 PM | #20721 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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I guess if we are to be happy about anything to come out of this Trump has at least enlightened half the county how pointless war in the middle east is.
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01-05-2020, 08:28 PM | #20722 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2009
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can Bruce Willis come save us from the republicans?
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01-05-2020, 09:24 PM | #20723 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
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Story time
I joined the Army in April of '98 as a 19 year old. I was in language school and various follow-on training opportunities until January of 2000 when I finally arrived at my unit in Germany. By then we were 9 years past Desert Storm and it was rare to run into enlisted soldiers that had served during that campaign, but I did live in the barracks with two such soldiers, one of which became a close friend. On the odd occasions where he'd talk about what it was like, it actually made you proud to be part of our Army. The Iraqi army was severely over-matched, unprepared, and disorganized. Once word started getting out to their units that our PoWs were well fed, received medical attention, and were given generous freedoms it wasn't uncommon for us to roll up on bunkers where the soldiers had already laid down their weapons and lined up trying to be as organized as possible for their surrender. For them, it was either that or get blown away from a mile out by a M1 Abrams. It got to the point where he told me the only English they would speak when surrendering was "no chicken". I guess these guys were put in bunkers with nothing but live chickens in cages which they were to kill for food. So when MREs were passed around they were desperate to get anything but chicken. Outside of that, the Iraqi prisoners were given basic medical aid they were lacking and were playing soccer to the pass the time. It was a resort vacation to these guys. Those that talked about their experience made it clear we were able to roll through Iraq so quickly not just because of sheer military might, but because we had a reputation as being the good guys and treated our enemies better than their own government treated them. Fast forward a few years and it's late 2006 and I'm in my final month in the Army just waiting to clear everything and start life as a civilian. One of the last official military functions I attended was a briefing by a Major that was an expert on the Middle East. He spoke rather candidly to us and the one thing that stuck out to me at the time was he was incredibly critical of the Abu Gharib scandal that broke a couple of years prior. He explained the importance of our reputation, not just to our allies and those we protect, but to our enemies as well. To this day I remember him stating during that briefing that the Abu Gharib scandal very well could extend our stay in the Middle East by as much as a decade. I honestly thought that was absurd at the time. I understood what happened was bad and made us look bad, but I knew how our soldiers were trained to handle PoWs and enemy combatants so one bad thing wasn't going to outweigh all the good we do. Now, I look back on that briefing and his words were somewhat prophetic and every time discussion comes about the Middle East I think of what he said. I get that it's an oversimplification and there isn't a direct line from then to where we are now, but I do wonder how much of an impact that had in changing the perception of our troops and how many died as a result. Then I look at the things that have happened since then with the water boarding scandals, the Bush administration not exactly being truthful about why we were invading Iraq, indefinite detention without charges, and we now have the President of the United States threatening the cultural sites of a country we're not at war with which is also an indirect threat on civilian life in that country. These things make everything we do afterwards that much more difficult. Trump reignited the General Pershing myth on the campaign trail, which his supporters cheered at the time, but it turns out that treating your enemies poorly isn't the quickest way to end a conflict. On the contrary, Pershing himself was a big supporter of what we now call nation building and changing culture through education and infrastructure support. We went into the 2nd Iraq campaign with the benefit of the doubt from the world coming off of 9/11 along with our reputation as a strong and just global presence. In roughly 15 years we've pissed away that goodwill and simply voting out Trump isn't going to be enough to fix this. We move on quickly but foreign perception takes a hell of a lot longer to change. Last edited by Atocep : 01-05-2020 at 09:24 PM. |
01-05-2020, 09:43 PM | #20724 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
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Quote:
TBF this post was updated with a response from CBP with what happened as well as saying that those reports were false. Take everything with a grain of salt.
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01-05-2020, 09:47 PM | #20725 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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01-05-2020, 09:50 PM | #20726 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
I'm not going to pretend I know who's telling the truth here.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
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01-05-2020, 10:36 PM | #20727 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Likely some of it happened, some of it exaggeration, some of it miscommunication & confusion (but not because of ... racism!). I'm sure this was rushed and not all the processes were in place. If, in a week or so, there is systemic pattern of American citizens (regardless of national origin but in this case of Iranian origin) being refused re-entry into the US, then its a big deal. Last edited by Edward64 : 01-05-2020 at 11:02 PM. |
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01-06-2020, 01:48 PM | #20728 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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The rise of Ricky Gervais as a neocon idol is hilarious.
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01-06-2020, 02:07 PM | #20729 | |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
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Quote:
This is false, conjured by CAIR, apparently. |
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01-06-2020, 02:17 PM | #20730 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Got any links handy? I'm kind of wary to believe to believe anyone at this point. I know Trump would love to put part of his muslim ban in place. However I'm kind of wary of a disinformation campaign orchestrated by Iran or Russia.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" Last edited by NobodyHere : 01-06-2020 at 02:21 PM. |
01-06-2020, 04:04 PM | #20731 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
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It's like they have never, ever paid any attention to anything he's ever said before. Up until now.
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01-06-2020, 04:23 PM | #20732 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
Yeah I'm in the same boat here. When I first posted that link there had not yet been a response from Border Patrol at all. Currently I just feel up in the air about it, something I could see either side doing. |
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01-06-2020, 05:05 PM | #20733 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Listen to him talk, he doesn't come across as intelligent. As for his accomplishments, he built his first company off his Daddy's money. Tesla has been around for 20 years and doesn't make money and only exists thanks to massive taxpayer subsidies. His broad proclamations either show lack of knowledge in technology or straight up fraud (see Hyperloop, self-driving, etc). SpaceX also relies almost entirely on government handouts. I'll give him credit for bilking the taxpayers out of money. But before we label him some savior, maybe he should run a self-sufficient company first. |
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01-06-2020, 05:28 PM | #20734 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I saw this on CNN TV when it first broke and was thinking WTF that's a pretty bold move by Trump. Wasn't sure what to think with all the possible repercussions.
Glad to know it was unsigned and a mistake. Would like to know how the draft got leaked. https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/06/polit...raq/index.html Quote:
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01-06-2020, 06:09 PM | #20735 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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The letter came from a General in Iraq who sent it to their government apparently. Esper also came out today and contradicted Trump on hitting cultural sites.
Just seems like people are doing their own thing and there isn't really any plan. |
01-07-2020, 09:47 AM | #20736 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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Quote:
A pretty good summary of Impeached President* Cadet Bone Spurs' entire time in office.
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01-07-2020, 10:14 AM | #20737 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Actually this time I think the apparent discord in the White House works in Trump's favor here. Iran may be more cautious to act if they don't know where Trump's limits are. If they think Trump means to actually hit their cultural sites then they may decide to spread out their defenses to protect those sites.
Sometimes I think the chaos in the WH is manufactured.
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
01-07-2020, 10:46 AM | #20738 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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Quote:
I definitely see what you are saying. He's got an 'X' factor that Iran has probably never had to deal with, when we here know it's just him being the same dumb ass he has been for decades. If this is actually coordinated, I wouldn't be surprised if he's just paying back a favor to someone and really doesn't give two cents about Iran to begin with. It's like that strange dog, you don't know what it's going to do. You know what other dogs in the past have done, but, you don't know this one and so far, it isn't acting normally. If Iran was smart, they would hurt him where it would hurt the most, fuck with his money or his means to get it.
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01-07-2020, 11:03 AM | #20739 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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I don't remember what the previous incident he did something similar, but he did it with a previous incident, you do not take anything off the table. You don't say we'll hit back if you do anything to us, but we won't hit you here, here, or here. You say we're going to hit you back where its going to hurt.
That said, I do disagree with going public with it. He could have said we're going to hit you if you hit us, etc. |
01-07-2020, 11:06 AM | #20740 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Geez, it looks like the Iranians are doing Trump's work for him.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-s...erman-mourners
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"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
01-07-2020, 11:14 AM | #20741 |
Resident Alien
Join Date: Jun 2001
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It would be interesting if Iran opted to do a cyber attack on Trump's personal financial interests. Or found a way to release his tax returns.
Last edited by Kodos : 01-07-2020 at 11:20 AM. |
01-07-2020, 11:16 AM | #20742 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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01-07-2020, 11:21 AM | #20743 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
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This is a dude who has never been held accountable for anything in his life. He has always been in charge, answered to no one, and used his team of lawyers to protect himself from all of the wrong he has done.
I don't think he gives a shit about war crimes. He's going to do whatever he wants.
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01-07-2020, 11:24 AM | #20744 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Quote:
Oh I agree, I'm referring to Warhammer saying "you do not take anything off the table" - I have no doubt nothing is off the table in the mind of Trump, but I had hoped that being appalled at the idea of openly threatening actions that are against international law (and US Law) would not be a partisan issue at this point, at the very least amongst members of this forum. Last edited by Radii : 01-07-2020 at 11:25 AM. |
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01-07-2020, 11:24 AM | #20745 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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I have no idea why Iran or any other country would not trust him...
Anatomy of a Trump rally: 67 percent of claims are false or lacking evidence
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01-07-2020, 11:25 AM | #20746 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Quote:
Or the alleged pee tapes.
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01-07-2020, 11:40 AM | #20747 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Iranian Americans describe ordeal of detention at U.S.-Canada border - Los Angeles Times
An individual account of the situation at the Canadian Border. The thing that strikes me here is that everyone seems to be speaking calmly and reasonably here. There is frustration and maybe even outrage, but the description of events here isn't blinded by rage, and even points out specifically "that there was no mistreatment" - but rather an observation that US Citizens were being singled out based on their descent and were being questioned on loyalty before being allowed back in the country. At this point I just have a very hard time believing the Border Patrol's statement that they were simply short staffed and busy, combined with heightened security without regard for race or country of origin. I'd like to think I'm open to new information, we'll see if any comes out or if its only going to be further statements from individuals who were held up at the border. Last edited by Radii : 01-07-2020 at 11:40 AM. |
01-07-2020, 01:26 PM | #20748 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
Not doing the war crimes has been implied in our responses to threats for decades. Now we can't be sure that Americans won't sink to the level of terrorists.
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To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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01-07-2020, 03:46 PM | #20749 |
Hall Of Famer
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Location: Chicago, IL
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01-07-2020, 04:11 PM | #20750 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
Trump knows every Greek person in the U.S.
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