Yet another school shooting.

[QuikSand]

It's a playtested deliberate maneuver. "Crazy people. What can you do?" Shrug and move on. Nobody is to blame. Nothing to see here.

It's cynical and sadly effective.

[Ksyrup]

Holy shit. The husband of one of the teachers who was murdered suffered a fatal heart attack. They have four kids.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Holy shit. The husband of one of the teachers who was murdered suffered a fatal heart attack. They have four kids.

That is tragic

[Kodos]

Jesus. So awful.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Arming teachers is such a ridiculously fucking stupid idea for a number of reasons. The article above is a great example. However, let's also think of the danger of now hundreds of guns in a school and the potential for a teacher to get disarmed (if this happens to officers, why wouldn't happen to teachers?). Finally, if this really is mainly a mental health problem (Arrested Development: "It isn't"), then do you think there are no teacher with mental health problems? And now you've just armed all of them.

I also love how we just don't have enough money for textbooks, facilities, or teacher salaries, but suddenly we have a ton of money to train and arm every teacher, or a ton of money to redesign every school with one entrance.

Arming teachers is incredibly dumb but it would also be the only chance kids might have during a shooting since the cops are mostly acting as accomplices at this point.

[Ksyrup]

I, for one, think it would be a terrible idea to arm pedophilia groomers. But that's just me.

[RainMaker]

There is another video.

Video of Uvalde parents with cops -- "y'all keep fighting with us, go fight that mfer!" pic.twitter.com/icDG2J595a
— ✨TheStarsAtNight ✨ (@Star5AtNight) May 26, 2022

I was wrong about them not doing anything. They did in fact prevent parents from rushing in to save their kids. Three cops did tackle and detain a parent in the first video. Also one cop was on guard ready to taze any parent who was willing to save the kids.

[RainMaker]

[Atocep]

Something we don't hear about is how personal firearms are treated on military installations. Generally speaking, our military are some of the most experienced and proficient people in the country when it comes to guns.

It's open to variation based on based commander policy, but every military installation I've worked at, lived on, served on, ect has been the same. No concealed carry. Guns are not allowed to be stored in the barracks under any circumstances. Guns are not allowed to be stored in base housing under any circumstances. Any personal firearms owned by military members living on post (barracks or housing) must be registered and stored with a base armorer. In order to use the firearm you have to arrange ahead of time to check it out and you check it back in when you're done.

We trust a random 18 year old with a gun more than we trust our military servicemembers.

[BYU 14]

That is a great point

[HerRealName]

That mom drove 40 miles, was arrested/detained for some amount of time, convinced another cop to let her go, jumped a fence, and rescued her kids faster than the time it took for law enforcement to finally act? They better make her Sherriff.

[HerRealName]

dola, it sure feels like we're being fed lie after lie instead of the usual FoW.

Uvalde gunman wasn't confronted before entering school, police say

[RainMaker]

40% of the town's budget goes to those pussies.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Law enforcement went and killed the murderer

Keyboard warrior indeed.

[albionmoonlight]

I realize that the Beto thing was a political act for him.

But I wonder if by throwing a monkey wrench into the works, he made it easier for the lies to start to unravel.

Big test for the media coming up. Are they going to be police stenographers or journalists?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yet, the police chief admitted the officers went in and got their own kids out while the shooter was still active. They stayed outside for an hour while waiting for the SWAT team, and it was Border Patrol that actually did something. That whole police force stood their and let kids bleed out.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I did not read about LEO getting out their own kids first. I can see that they got out a group of kids which contained their own kids but you are implying they purposely got their own kids out first. If true, yeah those guys are assholes and something should be done.

From what I've read, they had enough LEO to go in earlier. Article I read said it took 40 min from the initial shooting before CBP took the frakker out. That is too long IMO even accounting for initial confusion. But then an article said below. Wonder what "engaged" means here.

McCraw commended the officers who engaged the shooter before the tactical unit entered, saying they saved lives by keeping him "pinned down" at his location.

I do want to know an accurate timeline, who said what, who gave the initial order, was the frakker negotiating etc. before final judgement but yeah, does look like the LEOs should have done a better job.

[albionmoonlight]

dola: very anecdotal here, but I am starting to see some right wingers on social media start to dip their toes into the "One bad apple" pool and starting to criticize the Uvalde police in a "If these officers screwed up, then these officers need to be replaced." The fact that there is anything other than Worship The Blue, Blessed Be Their Holy Names coming out of the right means that these particular officers/department may take the fall for all of bad policing everywhere since the beginning of time.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

How about we try and find out. For fucks sake, I'm so tired of this line of thinking. CLEARLY doing NOTHING is not helping so how about we fucking try something.

Let me be clear. In general, I agree with BYU's proposals. I'm not saying don't do it. I am saying, in addition to more restrictions (not elimination), do other things also.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

That mom drove 40 miles, was arrested/detained for some amount of time, convinced another cop to let her go, jumped a fence, and rescued her kids faster than the time it took for law enforcement to finally act? They better make her Sherriff.

Had a chuckle even in the horrendous context.

I think LEOs shouldn't be faulted in stopping parents from going in. One goes, others may do the same and then the confusion will get worse. The fault is LEOs not going in earlier than the 40 min.

But honestly, if it was me and my kids, I sure as heck would have done the same thing if I saw LEOs not really taking action. Taze me, I can live with trying, I would have a hard time living if I didn't try.

[Edward64]

Still in Asia right now. Had dinner with friends last night and we talked about the gun craziness in the US. I could add some background & context to their questions and concerns, but yeah, we all agreed the US is screwed up here.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Keyboard warrior indeed.

Lick those boots for those cowards who sat in a parking lot handcuffing and pepper spraying parents who wanted to save their kids. Just lap it all up.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Lick those boots for those cowards who sat in a parking lot handcuffing and pepper spraying parents who wanted to save their kids. Just lap it all up.

Feel free to immigrate. May I suggest the Nordics. There's lots willing to take your slot here (legally).

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

One of the thing that I read, that is sticking with me, is that Americans need to see what the inside of those classrooms look like and what those poor children's bodies look like after incidents like this. Instead of showing cute pictures and videos of these kids playing and offering prayers for their families, show America what the inside of the rooms looked like, with their little bodies and blood. If we are a tough enough nation to have more guns than people and it is appropriate to show aborted fetuses, then show parents and grandparents and young people what it looks like after an automatic rifle tears through the body of child.

Interesting idea but it will victimize the parents of the dead also. They shouldn't have to live with that.

Maybe after the bodies are removed I can live with.

Don't know. I do agree something like that will make an impact to the undecided, not committed etc. but don't think it'll make that much of a difference to the true believers (won't happen to me and my family).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola: very anecdotal here, but I am starting to see some right wingers on social media start to dip their toes into the "One bad apple" pool and starting to criticize the Uvalde police in a "If these officers screwed up, then these officers need to be replaced." The fact that there is anything other than Worship The Blue, Blessed Be Their Holy Names coming out of the right means that these particular officers/department may take the fall for all of bad policing everywhere since the beginning of time.

It's because this story is going to be really bad when it's over. There are multiple videos of the police restraining parents who are trying to rush into a school to save their child from being executed.

On top of that, they have changed their story for like the 5th time. Now they are saying the shooter wasn't confronted after saying he was yesterday.




Then you have the story that whoever came in did the one thing you are not supposed to do when breaching a building and got a kid killed.




And finally, in today's press conference, they couldn't confirm that they didn't kill any of the kids.

Like I said, they're on their 4th or 5th version of the story with some blatant lies thrown in. Each passing minute the stories get worse and worse about their performance. And seeing videos of parents being detained for trying to save their kid is one of the most gut-wrenching things you could possibly witness as a parent.

With all that said, they'll throw these guys under the bus because it's too obvious. Similar to the George Floyd situation where it's on video and you just can't defend it. And with each passing minute it's more and more clear they were trying to cover up their horrific actions. There are going to be people who rushed to their defense who are going to look even dumber when this is over.


[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Interesting idea but it will victimize the parents of the dead also. They shouldn't have to live with that.

Maybe after the bodies are removed I can live with.

Don't know. I do agree something like that will make an impact to the undecided, not committed etc. but don't think it'll make that much of a difference to the true believers (won't happen to me and my family).

I’ve thought about this and, while it is impossible to put myself in the shoes of those parents, I feel like there wouldn’t be a whole lot left to make me feel more victimized if that happened to my family. I want more outrage and, again, if it we are all okay with seeing aborted fetuses to prove a point, I don’t see this as much different as far as being extremely personal and raw.

[Edward64]

Just a thought. It's obvious that politicians and government lack the "will" to make significant changes.

I wonder if wealthy donors can make a difference. Think like Gates Foundation. It does great things for specific causes in the world. Seems that like-minded multi-billionaires could fund a continuous campaign and also support like minded candidates. Plan for the long term and maybe in 20-30 years the right candidates will get elected, mentally unstable (and parents of) will get more aid that they need etc.

Studies will have to be done on what can be done to change the mindset, culture, and stuff like that. Needs to be super rich. Can't be thinking about ROI, more of leaving a long lasting public legacy.

I'd also add ... I think studies a while ago show there is no (significant?) linkage between shootings and violent computer games. Intuitively, this seems wrong to me. I can't help but feel violent computer games reinforces/glorifies that "something" in an unstable person's mind. Unsure what should be done but think we should look into it again.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I’ve thought about this and, while it is impossible to put myself in the shoes of those parents, I feel like there wouldn’t be a whole lot left to make me feel more victimized if that happened to my family. I want more outrage and, again, if it we are all okay with seeing aborted fetuses to prove a point, I don’t see this as much different as far as being extremely personal and raw.

Respectfully disagree. Seeing my dead child in pics over and over again, popping up during anniversaries etc. in perpetuity would be too much for me.

No joking, I can see myself shooting someone for that insensitivity and the hurt it would cause me and my family. It would be that raw and personal to me. I would go out of my mind.

[Ksyrup]

Texas Police Lieutenant Says Cops Were Reluctant to Engage Gunman Because ‘They Could’ve Been Shot’https://t.co/Af393QBrpC

— Mediaite (@Mediaite) May 26, 2022

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Respectfully disagree. Seeing my dead child in pics over and over again, popping up during anniversaries etc. in perpetuity would be too much for me.

No joking, I can see myself shooting someone for that insensitivity and the hurt it would cause me and my family. It would be that raw and personal to me. I would go out of my mind.

And I’m not trying to challenge that feeling of yours (I’d feel it, too, if it were me) or be disrespectful either, but why should anyone beyond you or your family care that it is too raw or personal for you? Having my young children need to go through live shooter drills and lockdowns (like my middle schooler had today because someone walked through their campus taking a shortcut) is raw and personal to me and directly impacting my and my family’s life today and I doubt that is stressing you out a whole lot while you are on your vacation.

If all these school children are regularly threatened and frightened and inconvenienced, because there is essentially a lottery-like system where once a month or quarter there is a school shooting with multiple casualties, I am absolutely comfortable with you being made uncomfortable and going out of your mind and being hurt over this. And again, nothing personal - I hate that someone would have to have this experience, but I can tolerate it in the same way I hate but tolerate seeing things like soldiers being sent overseas or families going through illnesses like cancer or people struggling in poverty or whatever other horrible things we have to tolerate if we live long enough. Maybe the thought of it would be enough to drive you and other people that feel strongly enough about it to affect change (even if it feels impossible or takes a generation to see the effects).

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Respectfully disagree. Seeing my dead child in pics over and over again, popping up during anniversaries etc. in perpetuity would be too much for me.

No joking, I can see myself shooting someone for that insensitivity and the hurt it would cause me and my family. It would be that raw and personal to me. I would go out of my mind.

This sounds pretty naive to me, considering we've had 27 school shootings in the 21 weeks of 2022. The grieving parents of the last 25 years are already forced to re-live this shit every week & we do nothing about it.

[RainMaker]

I don't think photos would do anything. Most of the country has made up their mind on where they stand on school shootings. Not going to persuade anyone.

[RainMaker]

18 minutes are missing from the police scanner archive which goes well with this.

As an ex prosecutor from Uvalde, I can say based on my past interactions with Uvalde PD, you will never know the truth about what went down in that school until every inch of video tape is released to the press.

— Sara Spector (@Miriam2626) May 27, 2022

[Atocep]

Republicans really seem to be trying to rally behind the idea of one entrance/one exit to each school. They have to be the only people on the planet that could look at 1 school shooting per week on average and conclude the problem is too many doors.

I mean, seriously, could there be a worse solution proposed this problem?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Republicans really seem to be trying to rally behind the idea of one entrance/one exit to each school. They have to be the only people on the planet that could look at 1 school shooting per week on average and conclude the problem is too many doors.

I mean, seriously, could there be a worse solution proposed this problem?

Can't the shooter just lock the door and do whatever he wants? Kids would have nowhere to escape to. I know it's just a deflection but this is the best these morons could muster up?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think photos would do anything. Most of the country has made up their mind on where they stand on school shootings. Not going to persuade anyone.

Republicans were more than ready to act when they thought it was an illegal that crossed the border or a transgender person. As soon as they realized that was right wing fake news they ran out of ideas.

[thesloppy]

It is so exhausting & absurd to watch the same elected motherfuckers who were willing to spew so much spittle about the sanctity of babies' lives mere days ago immediately shrug off any & all action to protect school kids.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Republicans were more than ready to act when they thought it was an illegal that crossed the border or a transgender person. As soon as they realized that was right wing fake news they ran out of ideas.

They weren't going to act on any issue. They were just looking to deflect from the issue by using bigotry.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't think photos would do anything. Most of the country has made up their mind on where they stand on school shootings. Not going to persuade anyone.

I’m not trying to equate the magnitude and you may be right and probably are, but I think about how watching 9/11 unfold live, on television, told such a impactful story in a way that reporting and recounting probably would not have done justice. That led to the Patriot Act and Bush having an unbelievably high approval rating because it was so visually horrifying and, in my opinion, because it seemed like something that could happen anywhere at anytime (for a little while, at least).

I’m not trying to argue or push people that I like on here into being uncomfortable or trying to see things my way - I haven’t even fully processed all of this. Hell - I can’t even watch the parents talk about it right now. I just think it is one of those things that we want to be blind to and not think about (like war, or how the meat I eat is processed, or how my sneakers and iPhone are made in Asia, etc.) that might change our behaviors if we didn’t have the option or privilege to be able to look away from it. Not a mountain I’m trying to die on, but just expanding on the idea of it in the presence of people whose opinions interest me and I largely respect

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Republicans really seem to be trying to rally behind the idea of one entrance/one exit to each school. They have to be the only people on the planet that could look at 1 school shooting per week on average and conclude the problem is too many doors.

I mean, seriously, could there be a worse solution proposed this problem?

So basically the solution is to turn the school into the Orlando nightclub shooting, or the Paris shooting, or the Great White RI fire. One main entrance/exit, lock all the rest of the doors.

[PilotMan]

There are plenty of answers out there. Plenty of solid ideas that are common sense. Arguing about bullshit doors, or bulletproof blankets are just what Quick said, the stuff that just delays and distracts until it blows over and nothing gets done.

Solutions | Everytown | Everytown

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So basically the solution is to turn the school into the Orlando nightclub shooting, or the Paris shooting, or the Great White RI fire. One main entrance/exit, lock all the rest of the doors.

The Great White fire came to mind to me, too. Good point. Make things less safe from a fire safety standpoint, but at least it doesn’t have to impact gun control.

[RainMaker]

Authorities investigating if retired federal agent knew of Buffalo mass shooting plans in advance | Local News | buffalonews.com

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Republicans really seem to be trying to rally behind the idea of one entrance/one exit to each school. They have to be the only people on the planet that could look at 1 school shooting per week on average and conclude the problem is too many doors.

I mean, seriously, could there be a worse solution proposed this problem?

then everyone would die in fires

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

So basically the solution is to turn the school into the Orlando nightclub shooting, or the Paris shooting, or the Great White RI fire. One main entrance/exit, lock all the rest of the doors.

Most schools kind of already have that, it just depends on how serious they are about keeping them locked at various times throughout the day. But a school isn't an enclosed theater either. But maybe, being in California, it's different here since we rarely have schools with indoor hallways. Everything is open, so it's not really a similar situation as described that way. But if someone wanted to inflict as much hurt at schools, I'm surprised someone hasn't shown up at dropoff/pickup. Our school has anywhere from 100-200 kids at various release times.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Republicans really seem to be trying to rally behind the idea of one entrance/one exit to each school. They have to be the only people on the planet that could look at 1 school shooting per week on average and conclude the problem is too many doors.

I mean, seriously, could there be a worse solution proposed this problem?

FWIW the one entry/exit doesn’t mean that all other doors are locked so you can’t get out if there is an active shooter. Alarms go off but you are still able to exit wherever. Source my wife’s school, her school already has this one entry/exit
process already.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

This sounds pretty naive to me, considering we've had 27 school shootings in the 21 weeks of 2022. The grieving parents of the last 25 years are already forced to re-live this shit every week & we do nothing about it.

Relive via words is not comparable to relive with explicit pics of your loved one sprawled on the ground.

Maybe it’s just me but there is a world of difference IMO.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I think LEOs shouldn't be faulted in stopping parents from going in.

It makes sense for LEOs to stop parents going into the school if other LEOs are already in the school hunting the shooter.

In this case, however, that wasn't happening. The parents were attempting to do what the LEOs refused to do. So, it makes no sense. Well, actually it makes perfect sense if you assume these cops were bullies and cowards, who felt much safer menacing people who couldn't fight back than doing the hard thing and attempting to protect the lives of innocents.

If you sign up to be a police officer, you sign up to putting your life on the line. It's literally part of the job, and it's why they get those big funerals, paraded out at sports events, thin blue line, big pensions, etc....

This PD (again, it was CBP who finally stormed the school) are a bunch of fucking cowards.

[cuervo72]

Our kids' elementary school had one main entrance which was on a buzzer system, but there were a number of doors out (gym, cafeteria, etc.). Our HS had more doors in but they were typically locked (or on card access).

Of course the elementary school was also overcrowded and had a number of mobile classrooms outside of the school...

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

It makes sense for LEOs to stop parents going into the school if other LEOs are already in the school hunting the shooter.

In this case, however, that wasn't happening. The parents were attempting to do what the LEOs refused to do. So, it makes no sense. Well, actually it makes perfect sense if you assume these cops were bullies and cowards, who felt much safer menacing people who couldn't fight back than doing the hard thing and attempting to protect the lives of innocents.

If you sign up to be a police officer, you sign up to putting your life on the line. It's literally part of the job, and it's why they get those big funerals, paraded out at sports events, thin blue line, big pensions, etc....

This PD (again, it was CBP who finally stormed the school) are a bunch of fucking cowards.

I don't disagree if it happened the way it's being reported right now. There's bound to be some confusion as far as who said what, who did or did not do what etc. So am willing to let the full story come out before final judgement.

But it does seem (some) LEO didn't do their job that they signed up for (e.g. serve and protect).

[flere-imsaho]

I dunno, the videos are pretty damning, and the repeated changes in story from the local PD.

I don't think we're at the "there's some confusion" stage. I think we're at the "there would need to be some pretty strong evidence to overturn the conclusions that are quickly falling into shape".