LXXVIII: Politicus Lupus (GAME OVER!! SEE POST #2593 FOR RESULTS)

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I think if we lynch Collins, and he's the brutal and brutals me, Chubby could be looking at a whole mess of districts. He'd have 6 or 7, but then all the doc would have to do is protect you since they couldn't night-kill Tyrith to move upwards anyhow.

That may not be a bad idea.

And why wouldn't the brutal kill me instead of you. That would give them the game, I think.

[KWhit]

Of course all this assumes that the start was 2 dem wolves and 2 repub wolves. If that wasn't the case, we're barking up the wrong tree.

[Lathum]

sorry guys, had I known you were out if you lose 2 elections I would have guarenteed my own victory.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

We can thank Time Warner for that. Stupid ass Internet connection.

+1. Obviously my orders would have been a lot different knowing the election results. Oh, well. Go village!

[Passacaglia]

Catching up a little -- any thoughts on voting Tyrith?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by KWhit

And why wouldn't the brutal kill me instead of you. That would give them the game, I think.

Not if we lynch Chubby, since I'd have taken at least some of his districts

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Catching up a little -- any thoughts on voting Tyrith?

That seems too passive right now

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I think if we lynch Collins, and he's the brutal and brutals me, Chubby could be looking at a whole mess of districts. He'd have 6 or 7, but then all the doc would have to do is protect you since they couldn't night-kill Tyrith to move upwards anyhow.

That may not be a bad idea.

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Not if we lynch Chubby, since I'd have taken at least some of his districts

I was responding to this scenario where you said if we lynch Collins.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

That seems too passive right now

What?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What?

Why would we vote Tyrith?

I think that would give the game to the wolves.

[Passacaglia]

This sounds like what KWhit was already saying, but if Chubby is cunning and mccollins is brutal, then lynching mccollins gives them the game, since they'll brutal to KWhit, and Chubby will control all 9 dem districts.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Why would we vote Tyrith?

I think that would give the game to the wolves.

What if Tyrith is the cunning wolf?

[Passacaglia]

My worry is that if we lynch Chubby, and Tyrith and mccollins are wolves, we give them the game.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What if Tyrith is the cunning wolf?

Personally, at this point, I'm willing to bet the game on the fact that we started with 2 wolves on each team.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Personally, at this point, I'm willing to bet the game on the fact that we started with 2 wolves on each team.

And I'm willing to do that because I think that's the only chance we have to win.

[Lathum]

THE ELECTIONS

Congress does not vote for the President. The public does, and their perceptions will be governed by the political actions of the candidates, and of the party that supports them.

The chosen Presidential candidates are assured of re-election in their districts, by virtue of the notoriety of their choice as their party's candidate.

Any player may, one time per Presidential election, choose to ENDORSE a candidate. This, of course, has political ramifications.

Congressional elections may be played straight (as with the Presidential election) and allowed to go the way of popular vote. Or they can be bought, by those who have the ability.

Important: if you lose a congressional election, you are not out of the game. You may still post in both your political thread and participate in the public thread. However, if you are voted out, you cannot vote for bills, nor can you serve as the Leader or the Liaison or the Whip or the Speaker. You can still hold onto any roles you may acquire through bills.

Any Congressman voted out has one chance, and only one, to get back into Congress, in the next election. He may try again in his own constrituency, or at a penalty, go for election in a political similar constituency if it is open. If he succeeds, he is back in, with all rights thereto. If he fails or chooses not to run, he is OUT OF THE GAME.

Important: Districts that are "open" become attached to the remaining Congress member who is still in power. So if your district is politically similar to a Congressman who has been removed, you may gain control of the district's vote while the seat is open. Meaning, every vote you place will have double the vote with respect to bills. This does not apply to the Wolf Voite (below). District control will be posted at the start of every cycle.

I don't see anywhere in the election part of the rules thaty say we should be out of the game but I guess the bolded part could be interpreted that way, I just took it for one chance in the next election.

[jeheinz72]

I'm of that ilk myself KWhit. I just can't reconcile that with a 3-1 start like that, CR basically said "Ok, Heinz, Pass, Clap, Cronin, Render, Illini - you guys are fucked and stand little chance at a major win"

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't see anywhere in the election part of the rules thaty say we should be out of the game but I guess the bolded part could be interpreted that way, I just took it for one chance in the next election.

So did I.

[Passacaglia]

What are we gaining by 'betting the game' on this? Why not just have it both ways?

[jeheinz72]

Additionally, a reason I don't think it was a 3-1 start, look at the night kills.

Cronin, (KWhit), path, RendeR, Chesapeake

Nothing there really was aimed at helping Tyrith. Especially look at last night. If Tyrith is a wolf, then Pass, you would've been the night kill. That'd given him 6 districts alone. Combined with either Chubby or Collins, who had 3 at the time, it would've been game.

[Passacaglia]

And what are we risking by voting Tyrith? If Chubby and mccollins are the wolves, we can still beat them.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't see anywhere in the election part of the rules thaty say we should be out of the game but I guess the bolded part could be interpreted that way, I just took it for one chance in the next election.

I did too, for the record.

Ultimately, it's too late now, since it showed us that you were both normal villagers. In fact, it probably helped the villagers out, taking you guys out of the game vs. just losing the election and still having your districts in the hands of mccollins and chubby, because we'd be in the same boat, but we'd have more Dems to be looking at as possible wolves today.

[jeheinz72]

Pass, if it was a 3-1 start with Tyrith as the cunning, you'd be dead.

[jeheinz72]

Well, I should say, you'd be dead or you'd be the 3rd repub wolf

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And what are we risking by voting Tyrith? If Chubby and mccollins are the wolves, we can still beat them.

No. We'd lose a day of lynching a wolf which would basically be game over (I think) since they'd get 2 nightkill attempts before engame instead of one.

[jeheinz72]

(not that I want to imply I'm even open to THAT f'ed up possibility)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Additionally, a reason I don't think it was a 3-1 start, look at the night kills.

Cronin, (KWhit), path, RendeR, Chesapeake

Nothing there really was aimed at helping Tyrith. Especially look at last night. If Tyrith is a wolf, then Pass, you would've been the night kill. That'd given him 6 districts alone. Combined with either Chubby or Collins, who had 3 at the time, it would've been game.

Yeah, but Tyrith is a smart player, and he's been aware of the district win condition the whole time -- he might have thought killing me would set off alarm bells, made people more suspicious of him -- plus he could save that kill until the end.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

No. We'd lose a day of lynching a wolf which would basically be game over (I think) since they'd get 2 nightkill attempts before engame instead of one.

No -- we don't lose a day of lynching -- those votes are just ignored.

[KWhit]

We can chat about possibilities, but I'm strongly biased at assuming it was 2-2 to begin with.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

No -- we don't lose a day of lynching -- those votes are just ignored.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Well, it would be risky...

[jeheinz72]

I *will not* be voting Tyrith barring somehow it being shown that doing so wins us the game, which I don't think is possible frankly.

[Passacaglia]

I'm thinking if, out of me, Tyrith, KWhit, heinz, and illinifan, we put three votes on Tyrith, and two on Chubby, we should be looking pretty good. We'd have to worry about some vote switches, and a possible scenario where Tyrith is good, and it's a 2-2 tie between Chubby and whoever Chubby and mccollins vote for, but I think it's worth it to cover our asses.

[jeheinz72]

So then what, the 2 wolves flop at the end if the villager votes pointed at Tyrith are ignored?

Then they can get basically two night kills.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I *will not* be voting Tyrith barring somehow it being shown that doing so wins us the game, which I don't think is possible frankly.

Fine, you can be one of the two that votes for Chubby.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah, but Tyrith is a smart player, and he's been aware of the district win condition the whole time -- he might have thought killing me would set off alarm bells, made people more suspicious of him -- plus he could save that kill until the end.

Why would Tyrith have cared about alarm bells if the game would've been over?

[KWhit]

So how many people are left in the game? Six? That would mean we'd have to have 2 votes on Chubby and 3 on Tyrith. That would open things up to the wolves switching onto a villager to create a 2-2 tie between Chubby and someone else. I don't like it.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm thinking if, out of me, Tyrith, KWhit, heinz, and illinifan, we put three votes on Tyrith, and two on Chubby, we should be looking pretty good. We'd have to worry about some vote switches, and a possible scenario where Tyrith is good, and it's a 2-2 tie between Chubby and whoever Chubby and mccollins vote for, but I think it's worth it to cover our asses.

Yeah, I don't like that.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm thinking if, out of me, Tyrith, KWhit, heinz, and illinifan, we put three votes on Tyrith, and two on Chubby, we should be looking pretty good. We'd have to worry about some vote switches, and a possible scenario where Tyrith is good, and it's a 2-2 tie between Chubby and whoever Chubby and mccollins vote for, but I think it's worth it to cover our asses.

Do we even know the tiebreaker though?

And FTR I didn't quite see what you were getting at, stacking the vote, until now.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Why would Tyrith have cared about alarm bells if the game would've been over?

Saying the game would have been over assumes that the wolves knew that henry and Lathum were out of the game. I don't think they knew that. I'll grant you that killing me ends the game in a Tyrith-mccollins situation, but not Tyrith-Chubby.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of risking the game on a tiebreaker and/or vote switches just to (in my mind) needlessly confirm that CR didn't create an unbalanced game.

[KWhit]

No way I think we should give the wolves that kind of control over the vote tonight, just to protect us from the really long-shot chance of Tyrith being the cunning wolf.

That's not a good trade-off.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

So how many people are left in the game? Six? That would mean we'd have to have 2 votes on Chubby and 3 on Tyrith. That would open things up to the wolves switching onto a villager to create a 2-2 tie between Chubby and someone else. I don't like it.

There's 7 -- don't forget illinifan.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

So then what, the 2 wolves flop at the end if the villager votes pointed at Tyrith are ignored?

Then they can get basically two night kills.

I don't know what this means. The 2 wolves flop?

[KWhit]

Pass, think back to the chess game you ran. Would you have put more wolves on one team than the other? No way.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

There's 7 -- don't forget illinifan.

Oh yeah. Was looking at the district list I had, but yeah, he can still vote for a wolf tonight.

[Passacaglia]

Why are you guys being so antagonistic about this? Do you really just want to hope Tyrith is not the cunning wolf? I'm trying to come up with solutions where we can win no matter what, and I'd rather feel like you guys are working WITH me rather than against me.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Saying the game would have been over assumes that the wolves knew that henry and Lathum were out of the game. I don't think they knew that. I'll grant you that killing me ends the game in a Tyrith-mccollins situation, but not Tyrith-Chubby.

Either way, killing you makes 6 for Tyrith. The 2nd wolf would've had to have been collins or Chubby. Collins already had 3 districts, so that wouldn't have stopped them.

So you're saying that you honestly think Tyrith and Chubby are the final two wolves?

Since if it was Chubby and Collins we would've lost the game last night with a night-kill of you instead of ches.

[jeheinz72]

And if you think Tyrith and Chubby are the final two wolves, let's just vote Chubby since we know he's not the Brutal (I'm assuming here the Brutal and the Cunning are two separate wolves)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Pass, think back to the chess game you ran. Would you have put more wolves on one team than the other? No way.

No, I wouldn't. But I'm not going to put it past CR to do it, and I'd rather not base out voting on HOPING that he set it up like that. I want to cover all our bases.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't know what this means. The 2 wolves flop?

I meant flop votes, but that was before I saw your 3-2-2 plan, so nevermind.