The Trump Presidency – 2016

[JPhillips]

From WaPo:

"There’s a little bit of a God complex,” an administration official said of the doctors.

“They’re all about science, science, science, which is good, but sometimes there’s a little bit less of a consideration of politics when maybe there should be.”

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Was anyone arguing that China wasn’t covering stuff up?

The World Health Organization for one

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The World Health Organization for one

Yeah, China covered stuff up and we should be wary of our dealings with them just like we were (are?) with Russia or any other superpower.

But when China shut down an entire province on January 23rd, it hit my personal radar and I started stocking up on stuff over the next few weeks. It didn't totally become "real" to me until late February but I was still making plans (building my typical stockpile of food, supplies a few months early) just in case. And I think most people who know me on this board can figure out that I'm not a prepper - I'm made for the 21st century and if society collapses, I'm one of the first to go. But, if dumbass non-prepper me figured this out then, why the hell were we not doing anything about it as a country.

2020 Congressional insider trading scandal - Wikipedia
Wait?!? We fucking did the very next day on January 24th. How do I know that? Because a bunch of crooks in Congress got the hell out of their stock positions because they knew it was going to be bad.

But did we stockpile PPE? Create a national plan or system? No, we gave a bunch to companies to ratchet up the price and get states in a bidding war while distributing the rest for political favors. Did we start developing a test? Yeah, but we refused international help and our test was broken and cost us weeks in prep. Did we begin to come up with a comprehensive national plan? Uh, we floated a travel ban because it played into our President's racist wheelhouse. And, in this case, it probably would have been the right thing to do. But when you spend so much of the rest of your time being racist and palling around with little Neo Nazis, people tend to doubt whether your motives are genuine or if you're just feeding political red meat to the racist wing of your base.

Once again, China screwed us over. They screwed the whole world over. But that's to be expected. One of the money quotes from Casino sum this up nicely: "Listen, if you didn't know you were being scammed you're too fuckin' dumb to keep this job, if you did know, you were in on it. Either way, YOU'RE OUT!"

Yes, China screwed us but we absolutely didn't have to compound it by being so inept here. So blaming them for /all of it/ or even trying to try to get in a game of "who was responsible for what percent" is just stupid political gamesmanship to cover up for the administration's massive stupidity and corruption.

SI

[albionmoonlight]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...HCYOTHEPOSKF6E

On Saturday, former president George W. Bush called on Americans to put aside partisan differences amid the “shared threat” of the coronavirus pandemic.

“Let us remember how small our differences are in the face of this shared threat,” Bush said in the three-minute video shared by the George W. Bush Presidential Center. “In the final analysis, we are not partisan combatants. We are human beings, equally vulnerable and equally wonderful in the sight of God. We rise or fall together.”

The former president was participating in a weekend live-stream event, “The Call to Unite.”

Bush did not mention Trump in the video, which celebrated health workers, people delivering food to the elderly and ordinary Americans wearing masks.

Trump, however, responded Sunday on Twitter , paraphrasing a Fox News host as having said, “Oh by the way, I appreciate the message from former President Bush, but where was he during Impeachment calling for putting partisanship aside.”

Trump then added in his own voice: “He was nowhere to be found in speaking up against the greatest Hoax in American history!”

Trump was speaking of his impeachment by the Democratic-led House for his conduct toward Ukraine, which resulted in an acquittal in the Republican-led Senate.

[sterlingice]

I know this isn't news, but Trump is such a small, petty man. Maybe he should listen to the (also somewhat inept) President who had like a 90% approval rating during his crisis.

SI

[albionmoonlight]

It is such a big and obvious failure that it is going to get lost in the shuffle.

But we shut down the US to give our leaders time to get testing/contact tracing/etc. in place.

And they just didn't. They didn't even try.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY.

We are not materially closer to being able to open safely than we were a month ago. Because the people in charge of making it safer didn't do anything.

Think of every sacrifice you and your loved ones have made over the last month. And then realize that Trump and Co. did NOTHING with that time. Did NOTHING with your sacrifice.

But, hey, 90%+ approval in the GOP, so I guess I'm the rube for thinking any of this matters.

[Kodos]

How dare you question our DEAR LEADER!

[JPhillips]

Didn't you hear, he shut down travel from China!

[spleen1015]

Like the media, you're just being mean and hostile.

You should be nice to him.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It is such a big and obvious failure that it is going to get lost in the shuffle.

But we shut down the US to give our leaders time to get testing/contact tracing/etc. in place.

And they just didn't. They didn't even try.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY.

We are not materially closer to being able to open safely than we were a month ago. Because the people in charge of making it safer didn't do anything.

Think of every sacrifice you and your loved ones have made over the last month. And then realize that Trump and Co. did NOTHING with that time. Did NOTHING with your sacrifice.

But, hey, 90%+ approval in the GOP, so I guess I'm the rube for thinking any of this matters.

Think about the sacrifices we're going to endure for the next few months and/or years because of it.

Last Monday (or maybe it was the Friday before), a speciality hospital where an acquaintance works talked about how they were responsible for more than 1% of tests in Texas.

https://www.politico.com/interactive...-of-new-cases/

These appear to be credible numbers, not wild claims, as they were over 2K tests and this shows the state would have been in the 200K+ range last week.

On the one hand, that's a pretty awesome accomplishment.

On the other hand, these tests were for employees, employees of a neighboring hospital, and patients who were already coming in for procedures. This was not a public testing - this was just testing that the hospital set up so they could keep functioning.

That's the patchwork crap that's seemingly going on all over this country. No coordination. No pooling of resources to drive efficiency. Nothing.

By and large, we did our part and stayed home. Some did a better job than others but, we can all agree, that significant effort was made and we've started to see the curve flatten. But that was supposed to buy time to get better testing and hope for treatments. The latter was always a long shot but the former was the one we should have been able to mobilize and do.

Instead, we have a GOP governor guarding his stockpile with the national guard and state police because he thinks the President is going to steal it and then have his buddies sell it at 10x the price to another state.

And we're going to be dealing with this for months or even years until we get a robust testing apparatus. All the while, we'll be hemorrhaging jobs because few will feel safe. For any travelers, we'll be on the "sh*thole" country list and have to quarantine for 14 days whenever we go anywhere - I doubt that will help business and international travel recover.

SI

[Atocep]

Getting sent Hatch Act reminders and guidelines for teleworkers is priceless considering the current administration.

[albionmoonlight]

The “I’m so sexy it would offend God himself to cover this up” approach.

Tyler Buchanan on Twitter: "GOP State Rep. Nino Vitale on why he won’t wear a face mask: “This is the greatest nation on earth founded on Judeo-Christian Principles. One of those principles is that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. That image is seen the most by our face.�… https://t.co/v9NJ5beUJc"

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

They are actually going to manage to get the media to buy into the “if China messed up in any way whatsoever, then Trump cannot be held accountable for anything” framing, aren’t they?

...they'll definitely get virtually everyone who's "in play" to vote for him.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The “I’m so sexy it would offend God himself to cover this up” approach.

Tyler Buchanan on Twitter: "GOP State Rep. Nino Vitale on why he won’t wear a face mask: “This is the greatest nation on earth founded on Judeo-Christian Principles. One of those principles is that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. That image is seen the most by our face.�… https://t.co/v9NJ5beUJc"

Time to dongs out for God then!

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The “I’m so sexy it would offend God himself to cover this up” approach.

Tyler Buchanan on Twitter: "GOP State Rep. Nino Vitale on why he won’t wear a face mask: “This is the greatest nation on earth founded on Judeo-Christian Principles. One of those principles is that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. That image is seen the most by our face.�… https://t.co/v9NJ5beUJc"

I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, but I seriously want to see the exegesis for this claim. I.e. the whole face thing. There's all kinds of perspectives on what exactly the image of God is, and let's just say that I'm disinclined to agree with this one.

[JPhillips]

Apparently the WH is following a model that says deaths essentially stop after May 15.

[cuervo72]

Death Deadline!

(Deathline?)

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Apparently the WH is following a model that says deaths essentially stop after May 15.

Death, be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for thou art not so;
For those whom thou think'st thou dost overthrow
Die not, poor Death, nor yet canst thou kill me.
From rest and sleep, which but thy pictures be,
Much pleasure; then from thee much more must flow,
And soonest our best men with thee do go,
Rest of their bones, and soul's delivery.
Thou art slave to fate, chance, kings, and desperate men,
And dost with poison, war, and sickness dwell,
And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
And better than thy stroke; why swell'st thou then?
One short sleep past, we wake eternally
And death shall be no more; Death, thou shalt die.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Apparently the WH is following a model that says deaths essentially stop after May 15.

Upshot: maybe there's a meteor strike they know about so they don't care about COVID

SI

[tarcone]

HEY, at least the government is giving millions of dollars to big oil. Shoot, that industry NEEDS that money. Those billions and billions they make every year just cant sustain these oils prices.

Of course, now the biodiesel people are pissed because they dont get theirs.

Meanwhile, that $2400 my family got went, and fast.

[PilotMan]

I'm thinking the only way that we get out of this is if the government just gives out money to everyone until they can get back to making money on their own and completely prop up the economy. Even if it means devaluing the dollar. Open or not, there will be no money to spend anywhere with this many jobs gone, and so very many more to come. If that happens, then recovery might happen faster. Otherwise, we're in for a long, long, downward cycle with no visible or quick recovery on the horizon.

[stevew]

It would be great if the IRS could actually process my tax return. I know they dropped everything to do the stimulus but I’m at like 10 weeks since I filed and no way to get an update.

[tarcone]

I liked the 17 Dem legislatures idea of giving everyone making less than $150k, $2k a month through July.

That would do wonders for small businesses IMO. Think of the projects people would hire others to do. Or they could pay rent to their land lords or go out and eat a couple times a month or more. Whatever. Im on board for that one.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I liked the 17 Dem legislatures idea of giving everyone making less than $150k, $2k a month through July.

That would do wonders for small businesses IMO. Think of the projects people would hire others to do. Or they could pay rent to their land lords or go out and eat a couple times a month or more. Whatever. Im on board for that one.

I disagree.

I think that money would largely go to big business. People would pay mortgage, utilities, etc..and put it in savings.

You really want small business stimulated give it to people who are fortunate enough to not need it. I would spend literally every dime on a local business if we got a stimulus. That being said we are still dumping a lot into the local businesses and consider ourselves fortunate not to need a stimulus.

[Lathum]

So how about this.

Why can't the government provide stimulus in the form of a voucher, stamp, whatever that you can only use at a local business or a business that employees on X number of people?

Seems like that would prevent people from using their stimulus on big companies.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I liked the 17 Dem legislatures idea of giving everyone making less than $150k, $2k a month through July.

That would do wonders for small businesses IMO. Think of the projects people would hire others to do. Or they could pay rent to their land lords or go out and eat a couple times a month or more. Whatever. Im on board for that one.

I like the 2k /month idea better than what they have spent the stimulus on.

[CrimsonFox]

Three family members charged in shooting death of security guard who told a customer to put on a face mask

Brought to you by Cowardly white terrorists inspired by the cowardly orange terrorist

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/mi...y_WxTvvlBfV8SI

Brought to you by Cowardly white terrorists inspired by the cowardly orange terrorist

You forgot the sarcasm tag

ETA:

These are CrimsonFox's "Cowardly white terrorists"



You may want to rethink your racism

[CrimsonFox]

Three Russian doctors fall from hospital windows, raising questions amid coronavirus pandemic

In soviet russia, windows jump YOU

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

You forgot the sarcasm tag

ETA:

These are CrimsonFox's "Cowardly white terrorists"



You may want to rethink your racism

Let's not forget the mother. What a f**d up family. The victim was father of the year in a school.

[Edward64]

I like there is bipartianship in the rejection and they are trying to make a statement by not accepting the tests.

However, senate is coming back into session this week. I assume this means they are onsite vs virtual. If so, I would prefer if they did take the tests to reduce the possibility of a mass-spike-quarantine which will disrupt things (e.g. we don't need anymore disruption).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/polit...ntv/index.html

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Monday defended her decision along with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to decline an offer from the Trump administration to deploy rapid coronavirus testing capabilities to Capitol Hill and said that tests should go to Americans on the front lines of the crisis.

"The fact is that we have said that the tests should go to those on the frontline who had direct communication with or are contending with this," Pelosi said. "Our capital (physician) has said we don't need to have them in terms of the exposure that we have. The testing organization said to us you're not next. We can bump you in line, push other people out of the way, but you're not next in terms of essential workers for this."

In a rare joint statement, McConnell and Pelosi said on Saturday that they would "respectfully" decline an offer from the administration to deploy rapid testing capabilities to the Hill ahead of senators' return to Washington on Monday.

[Lathum]

What possesses someone to do that. I get a heat of the moment exchange and it escalates. Driving home, getting a gun, then driving back you 100% have to know that ends with you and anyone involved in jail for the rest of your life. But hey, you defended your wife’s honor.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I disagree.

I think that money would largely go to big business. People would pay mortgage, utilities, etc..and put it in savings.

You really want small business stimulated give it to people who are fortunate enough to not need it. I would spend literally every dime on a local business if we got a stimulus. That being said we are still dumping a lot into the local businesses and consider ourselves fortunate not to need a stimulus.

This raises an interesting point. People are mushing together two different purposes of stimulus.

Is it to give direct payments to people who have lost their income? If so, then you do want to means test it, etc.

Or, is to to put money into the economy so that people spend it, which then keeps businesses afloat? If so, then you want to give it, broadly, to everyone.

These purposes can overlap, of course. But Latham is right. If you try to limit the stimulus to simply replacing lost income, then you are not going to have the "stimulus" effect that you would if you are giving it to people to encourage them to go have that night on the town that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

[albionmoonlight]

Remember, in America EVERYONE is against frivolous lawsuits. And EVERYONE runs to court at the first opportunity if they don't like what it happening to them.

The only thing we disagree on is what is "frivolous."

Coronavirus: A GOP lawsuit could force Wisconsin to reopen immediately - Vox

(FWIW, I have no thoughts on the merits of the lawsuit referenced here. I never got around to taking Wisconsin public health law in law school).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by stevew

It would be great if the IRS could actually process my tax return. I know they dropped everything to do the stimulus but I’m at like 10 weeks since I filed and no way to get an update.

Huh, that's interesting. I filed my tax return the week the stimulus checks went out and I got my refund in 3-4 days. I used TurboTax and direct deposit, FWIW.

[JPhillips]

Venezuela has captured two Americans working as mercenaries for a company that may or may not have been trying to start a coup that may or may not have been backed by the U.S. government.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Venezuela has captured two Americans working as mercenaries for a company that may or may not have been trying to start a coup that may or may not have been backed by the U.S. government.

Again? Didn't we openly blunder through trying to remove Maduro in 2017 during those protests?

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Again? Didn't we openly blunder through trying to remove Maduro in 2017 during those protests?

Perhaps a third time is a charm...

[JPhillips]

If you go back to the Bush admin this might be #4.

[JPhillips]

dola

WH telling members of the coronavirus task force that they are going to wind down soon.

Ten more days until no more deaths!

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If you go back to the Bush admin this might be #4.

Ah, it resets with a new president...I'll give the orange one a mulligan on Bushie's attempt.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

WH telling members of the coronavirus task force that they are going to wind down soon.

Ten more days until no more deaths!

I'm sure we have that Mission Accomplished banner around here someplace... right on time.

[QuikSand]

From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

I had a terrible conflict on things.

My thought is what happens if Trump considers everything done and the virus actually does recede? Do I want that to happen?

I remember the craziness when some of our posters we're beside themselves in why other posters would want the economy to fail during Trump's tenure.

Do I really want people to die because Trump is in charge?

The truth is, it doesn't matter if more people die because they open up. Even if there is more death, Trump and his supporters will say it is for the best. If they open up and there is no more death, Trump and his supporters will say they were right all along.

It's truly amazing. He has destroyed integrity, stability, the economy and now potentially our lives, and his supporters are still ready for his sloppy seconds.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

He has been telling people not to believe their own eyes and ears for 3.5 years now. If it gets worse 100% he says the media is inflating death counts to make him look bad. Especially the close we get to the election. The problem is a lot of his support comes from rural areas where maybe Jim Bobs cousin from 3 counties over died from it but he was already in a bad way. His supporters couldn't care less about the libs in sanctuary cities dying in droves, hell, most of them probably rejoice in it. They are the same ones actively rooting for a civil war so they can shoot other Americans.

[QuikSand]

The thing is, for me, I know that I am logically supportive of the general argument about trade-offs... like the general argument that we could drop auto accidents to zero but it would mean huge inconvenience and cost, so we say it's okay for X people do die over time in car wrecks. I get that as an intellectually honest argument.

However, I'm a victim of my own hatred. So if it's team Trump saying that, then I am just magnetically pulled to the side of "that's despicable and inhuman," and I just feel better about being on the other side from them. I'm vaguely aware this is so, but am close to powerless against it.

And yes, I see the political calculus and they have surely gameplanned out how to make it good for re-election regardless of whether there are giant piles of corpses (it's China's fault, and Obama's fault, and the Democrats' fault) or not (Trump saved America and the economy and presumably Christmas).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

From a purely political point of view, I've always wondered how far the strategy of denying facts could go. I thought it might be a visible recession might be the thing, where the Administration and its figurehead would just implore people to ignore the lines of people at the unemployment office, that everythign is just fine, it's fake news, etc.

Maybe the test ends up being body counts. If their internal projections are correct, and we have 2,000-3,000 American deaths each week for the months ahead... will the strategy start to become one of denial, rather than this half-witted rationalization they're floating now? Move past "grandma didn't have much left to offer" and right onto "it's not true, those are fake numbers from the media who are trying to hurt Trump." Would be interesting.

Sickening, in every real world way, but politically fascinating. I mean, that's basically why you discredit the actual media, so you have the ability to lie about anything you want. This might be the "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

He said basically that to Lesley Stahl.

You know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so that when you write negative stories about me no one will believe you.

[Butter]

I've already started seeing posts on Facebook about how the numbers are artificially inflated because "hospitals get paid more for COVID-19 deaths". So now hospitals are in on the war against Trump.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Butter

I've already started seeing posts on Facebook about how the numbers are artificially inflated because "hospitals get paid more for COVID-19 deaths". So now hospitals are in on the war against Trump.

We're all willing to say here that Trump is doing a lot of bad shit. Why is not ok to think that hospitals won't take advantage of the situation too so that they can get more money?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

We're all willing to say here that Trump is doing a lot of bad shit. Why is not ok to think that hospitals won't take advantage of the situation too so that they can get more money?

That is making the assumption that hospitals get paid more for a COVID death.