The 2013-2014 NFL Offseason/Coaching/Free Agency (non-draft) Thread

[DaddyTorgo]

Logan Mankins traded by New England Patriots to Tampa Bay Buccaneers - ESPN Boston

Not sure I understand this move, unless Gronk is basically dead or Mankins is. Even if Gronk weren't playing this year I don't know that this would be the move that made sense.

But then again I don't know anything about "Tim Wright."

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Logan Mankins traded by New England Patriots to Tampa Bay Buccaneers - ESPN Boston

Not sure I understand this move, unless Gronk is basically dead or Mankins is. Even if Gronk weren't playing this year I don't know that this would be the move that made sense.

But then again I don't know anything about "Tim Wright."

With a 37 year old QB, I'm not sure I'd fuck with my offensive line chemistry. Plus, they got very little for Mankins.

[Logan]

Fun fact: my ex girlfriend was Tim Wright's high school math teacher.

You guys know how Belichick loves Rutgers players.

[stevew]

Tim Wright is pretty big and looks the part. Should be a legit red zone target.

[jeff061]

Surprised by the move. That said, I saw more than a few references to Mankins as overrated in the last year or 2. That's straight sacrilegious to say in these parts, but I saw it enough where I wondered how true it was. Overrated or not, I still loved his attitude.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

With a 37 year old QB, I'm not sure I'd fuck with my offensive line chemistry. Plus, they got very little for Mankins.

I guess the rationale is Mankins is 32, wasn't his usual dominating self last year, his cap hit is huge next year, better to move on a year early and get a piece for him that you can use this year.

But I definitely see where you're coming from and quite possibly lean a bit more that way myself I think.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

With a 37 year old QB, I'm not sure I'd fuck with my offensive line chemistry. Plus, they got very little for Mankins.

In the past this would have bothered me. Guys come and go, but Scarnecchia always pulls them together, no matter what. No Scar this year though, we'll see how it goes.

[SirFozzie]

I wonder if this is salary cap related, Mankins is in the fourth year of a 6/51 deal. He wasn't starting (Cannon and Connolly are projected to start at Guard), so he was apparently expendable.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay...logan-mankins/

Checking his contract page, this move costs the Patriots $4.25 million on the Cap this year and 4 million on the cap next year, but the Bucs are on the hook for the remaining $20.25 million.

Wright is a min-sal guy basically, so.. unless the Pats either A) Really need the cap space for future years (Future blowing up of the roster?), B) Really needed a warm body at TE (A lot of 2 RB sets coming?) or C) Think Mankins is Dunzo, or really, A-C combined, I'm not sure this makes sense.

[BillJasper]

I guess we'll find out if Belicheck is still a genius.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I wonder if this is salary cap related, Mankins is in the fourth year of a 6/51 deal. He wasn't starting (Cannon and Connolly are projected to start at Guard), so he was apparently expendable.

Logan Mankins Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns

Checking his contract page, this move costs the Patriots $4.25 million on the Cap this year and 4 million on the cap next year, but the Bucs are on the hook for the remaining $20.25 million.

Wright is a min-sal guy basically, so.. unless the Pats either A) Really need the cap space for future years (Future blowing up of the roster?), B) Really needed a warm body at TE (A lot of 2 RB sets coming?) or C) Think Mankins is Dunzo, or really, A-C combined, I'm not sure this makes sense.

I would expect B with an exclamation point. Their offense is based around Gronk, he's just too good not to(fact: he is by far the best TE to ever play the game when healthy), but he keeps getting injured. End result is they are not only down Gronk, but the other TEs just can't execute the game plan well enough. So they end up having to change everything whenever he gets injured.

I don't know much about this new guy. But hopefully he is similar to Gronk, if not remotely as good, so they won't need to re-define the entire offense whenever Gronk goes down.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by jeff061

fact: he is by far the best TE to ever play the game when healthy), but he keeps getting injured.

Erm...

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Erm...

Kellen Winslow and Tony Gonzalez say hi.

[jeff061]

Better than both. Easily. The guy is one of a kind. He's right on par with both those players catching passes, but is also the best blocking TE in the league.

That said, If he keeps getting injured like this it doesn't matter how good he is.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Better than both. Easily. The guy is one of a kind. He's right on par with both those players catching passes, but is also the best blocking TE in the league.

That said, If he keeps getting injured like this it doesn't matter how good he is.

Dude, you're going so far beyond a homer it's absurd. "Best blocking TE in the league"? HAHAHAHAHA. Gronk has never been known for being a great blocker and current guys like Heath Miller are far, far better at it than he is.

Gronk is up there in the discussion for "best all time" but he's nowhere near a consensus choice and let's not overstate his abilities. At his peak, I'd take Winslow over anyone. Of course, I actually remember seeing his Miami performance on live national TV and that has some influence on that decision. He truly redefined the position like LT redefined the LB position. Career wise, you can't beat Tony G. Gronk is a mix of both and a great player in his own right.

[jeff061]

I'll give you the blocker point, but I still think he is far better than you are giving him credit for. He's not running routes every playing, he stays home, lays out backers and ties up linemen better than the majority of TEs.

Still believe the only thing that's knocking him from the BOAT pedestal is his health.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Still believe the only thing that's knocking him from the BOAT pedestal is his health.

That's kinda a big thing though.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

That's kinda a big thing though.

Agree.

[stevew]

I'd guess Wright does 800yards and 8TDs. Will be solid fantasy TE in NE

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'll give you the blocker point, but I still think he is far better than you are giving him credit for. He's not running routes every playing, he stays home, lays out backers and ties up linemen better than the majority of TEs.

Still believe the only thing that's knocking him from the BOAT pedestal is his health.

A guy who has played for 44 games in 4 NFL seasons will never be the GOAT. Even Gale Sayers had more starts than that. He's had one great season (90 catches, 17tds) and not broken 800 receiving yards again. If he keeps getting injured he won't even make the Hall of Fame never mind being the best ever (see Davis, Terrell).

In short, I'm being kind when I say Gronk even deserves consideration as the best TE of all time. He really doesn't. He and Jimmy Graham came into the league at the same time and Graham has started in 7 fewer games (though played in more). Graham has 75 more receptions and 600 more yards in that time. Gronk is the better blocker, but let's face it...Gronkowski's reputation is really one that's based off his zed zone ability and that has a lot to do with the guy who is tossing him the football. Great player to be sure, but again let's be realistic.

[Kodos]

I think we can all agree that Gronk is no Chuck Farley...

[BishopMVP]

You see what you did DT??? You begged Kraft to spend more money on the Revolution, and this is how he pays for Jermaine Jones!!! Just kidding

I don't *love* the move because it gives us no depth on the O-Line, but if the Patriots really think there's little drop-off from Mankins to Cannon/Connolly at this point and Vollmer can stay healthy enough Cannon doesn't have to play at tackle, Mankins possibly would've been cut due to his cap figure this week, and definitely wasn't making it to next season. It's just wayyy too much for a guard that isn't all-pro caliber anymore.

I also don't see any blow up of the roster coming. I figure the savings from Mankins base salary disappearing and Hernandez's bonus money coming off the cap will be used to "restructure"/lock up Revis for 2015-2019 or so, and that's a trade off I'll take. They'll also have a few more guys like McCourty, Solder and Jones in line for big raises the next year+

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

You see what you did DT??? You begged Kraft to spend more money on the Revolution, and this is how he pays for Jermaine Jones!!! Just kidding

I don't *love* the move because it gives us no depth on the O-Line, but if the Patriots really think there's little drop-off from Mankins to Cannon/Connolly at this point and Vollmer can stay healthy enough Cannon doesn't have to play at tackle, Mankins possibly would've been cut due to his cap figure this week, and definitely wasn't making it to next season. It's just wayyy too much for a guard that isn't all-pro caliber anymore.

I also don't see any blow up of the roster coming. I figure the savings from Mankins base salary disappearing and Hernandez's bonus money coming off the cap will be used to "restructure"/lock up Revis for 2015-2019 or so, and that's a trade off I'll take. They'll also have a few more guys like McCourty, Solder and Jones in line for big raises the next year+

Hahaha

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

A guy who has played for 44 games in 4 NFL seasons will never be the GOAT. Even Gale Sayers had more starts than that. He's had one great season (90 catches, 17tds) and not broken 800 receiving yards again. If he keeps getting injured he won't even make the Hall of Fame never mind being the best ever (see Davis, Terrell).

In short, I'm being kind when I say Gronk even deserves consideration as the best TE of all time. He really doesn't. He and Jimmy Graham came into the league at the same time and Graham has started in 7 fewer games (though played in more). Graham has 75 more receptions and 600 more yards in that time. Gronk is the better blocker, but let's face it...Gronkowski's reputation is really one that's based off his zed zone ability and that has a lot to do with the guy who is tossing him the football. Great player to be sure, but again let's be realistic.

Totally agree. I was really just thinking actual raw ability. Not career or HOF discussion. If the rest of his career remotely resembles the last couple years, yeah, he's not in discussion.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by stevew

Tim Wright is pretty big and looks the part. Should be a legit red zone target.

Tim Wright is a former WR that converted to TE. With the Bucs he was definitely a surprise (500+ receiving yards) and showed very good route/receiving skills for a big man. Was pretty worthless at blocking though...which is probably a bigger concern in Tampa than in NE...hence why this trade seems to make sense.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Tim Wright is a former WR that converted to TE. With the Bucs he was definitely a surprise (500+ receiving yards) and showed very good route/receiving skills for a big man. Was pretty worthless at blocking though...which is probably a bigger concern in Tampa than in NE...hence why this trade seems to make sense.

If he can avoid killing people we definitely have a need for a field-stretching TE in NE.

[gstelmack]

Radio was saying that the Pats also got a 4th round pick out of this.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Totally agree. I was really just thinking actual raw ability. Not career or HOF discussion. If the rest of his career remotely resembles the last couple years, yeah, he's not in discussion.

Well if its all about raw ability...
Bo is the greatest running back that ever lived.
And Ryan Leaf is better than Peyton manning.

[Julio Riddols]

Gronkowski came out of college with major injury concerns, and he has had those in great volume as a pro. Probably won't ever play a full season again, and I honestly think it is negligible whether he pays enough of a return on the investment to pay him beyond this season. I think if Wright takes off in New England, they probably draft a replacement for Gronk next year and let him be somebody else's injury worry. That's just my wholly uninformed opinion, but at some point it becomes more of a problem than it is worth to have a guy taking up a roster spot when he can hardly get or stay on the field.

They should trade him to the Jets and make their rivals lives even more miserable.

[BillJasper]

People on ESPN are idiots. Browns need to start looking for a new QB but the Broncos will be fine if Manning goes down.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

People on ESPN are idiots. Browns need to start looking for a new QB but the Broncos will be fine if Manning goes down.

People seem to think very highly of rocket armed tall QB's who are backing up legends. It's weird.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Probably won't ever play a full season again, and I honestly think it is negligible whether he pays enough of a return on the investment to pay him beyond this season. I think if Wright takes off in New England, they probably draft a replacement for Gronk next year and let him be somebody else's injury worry.

110% disagree.

[Subby]

Will u smoke weed 2night n should it b legalized or is that a bad idea??

— Jim Irsay (@JimIrsay) February 13, 2011

[Subby]

hats of to commisionrer Roger Goodell for getting this one rite. Josh Gordon needs to worry more about suiting up and less about shooting up

— PFTCommenter (@PFTCommenter) August 27, 2014

[BillJasper]

I hope Josh Gordon can get his head screwed on straight over the next year. Kid has a ton of ability on the football field.

There will be plenty of time to smoke pot after he retires.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

110% disagree.

Belichek has not been shy about parting ways with anyone not named Tom Brady.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Belichek has not been shy about parting ways with anyone not named Tom Brady.

Very, very true. He ditched Randy Moss in the middle of the season.

[Subby]

Kudos to the NFL for holding firm on Josh Gordon's horrifying offense of being near marijuana. Can't wait to watch Ray Rice in week 3!

— Ken Tremendous (@KenTremendous) August 27, 2014

[Butter]

I still can't believe the Browns didn't draft a WR early this year.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

110% disagree.

I understand this is a fairly radical concept given the production he has displayed when healthy, but I just don't think he can maintain his best for much longer, let alone stay healthy. He has so many major nicks, the back problems, the forearm (which seems to have potential to become a recurring thing like Roy Williams' forearm was), and now a major knee injury. I know he is still young, and I know the knee was kind of a freak injury, but there are just too many damaged points on a body that plays a highly physical position.

If he makes it through this season without injuries, I can see him sticking around a lot longer. If he misses 6 or more games, I think they replace him.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I understand this is a fairly radical concept given the production he has displayed when healthy, but I just don't think he can maintain his best for much longer, let alone stay healthy. He has so many major nicks, the back problems, the forearm (which seems to have potential to become a recurring thing like Roy Williams' forearm was), and now a major knee injury. I know he is still young, and I know the knee was kind of a freak injury, but there are just too many damaged points on a body that plays a highly physical position.

If he makes it through this season without injuries, I can see him sticking around a lot longer. If he misses 6 or more games, I think they replace him.

I agree with this. Don't the Patriots have a $10m option on him in 2015 that lengthens his contract to 2019? I can't see them paying him that money and extending his contract if he's hurt yet again.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

If he makes it through this season without injuries, I can see him sticking around a lot longer. If he misses 6 or more games, I think they replace him.

That's an evolution of what you said before, not the same thing.

I less than 110% disagree with that.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I agree with this. Don't the Patriots have a $10m option on him in 2015 that lengthens his contract to 2019? I can't see them paying him that money and extending his contract if he's hurt yet again.

That's pretty much what I was going on. His Spotrac numbers seem to indicate that if he makes it beyond 2015, he'll probably stick until 2017. 2015 and 2018 are the two biggest years I can see him being a potential cap casualty or trade bait.

[Julio Riddols]

Looking at the Spotrac numbers for Dalton I am floored by how good the contract is for the Bengals.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

Looking at the Spotrac numbers for Dalton I am floored by how good the contract is for the Bengals.

Except for ya know...the fact that it's Dalton.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Except for ya know...the fact that it's Dalton.

I think Dalton is gonna turn heads this year. His preseason performance was more on point than I have ever seen him, and it looks like his time with House in the spring really changed some things. His delivery has clearly become more efficient and his confidence seems like it is on a whole other level. Either way, Cinci can cut the cord at any time if he fails to make a dent in the postseason or regresses as a passer. I just don't see it happening.

[Logan]

I think Josh Gordon should settle up on whatever outstanding debts he has with his PR guy, for his statement criticizing the NFL's "discretion and judgment" being allowed to slip through.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Logan

I think Josh Gordon should settle up on whatever outstanding debts he has with his PR guy, for his statement criticizing the NFL's "discretion and judgment" being allowed to slip through.

Oh, I have a feeling Gordon insisted on that one. At this point, it can't really hurt him. If he's clean for the next year, Roger the A$$hole won't have any way to not reinstate him and get away with it publicly.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I think Dalton is gonna turn heads this year. His preseason performance was more on point than I have ever seen him, and it looks like his time with House in the spring really changed some things. His delivery has clearly become more efficient and his confidence seems like it is on a whole other level. Either way, Cinci can cut the cord at any time if he fails to make a dent in the postseason or regresses as a passer. I just don't see it happening.

+1

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Oh, I have a feeling Gordon insisted on that one. At this point, it can't really hurt him. If he's clean for the next year, Roger the A$$hole won't have any way to not reinstate him and get away with it publicly.

Considering he couldn't stay out of trouble while already appealing a failed test, I don't think Roger has much to worry about.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I think Dalton is gonna turn heads this year. His preseason performance was more on point than I have ever seen him, and it looks like his time with House in the spring really changed some things. His delivery has clearly become more efficient and his confidence seems like it is on a whole other level. Either way, Cinci can cut the cord at any time if he fails to make a dent in the postseason or regresses as a passer. I just don't see it happening.

I am encouraged by Dalton after this preseason and after the realization that this is just his 4th season... plus some numbers I saw that said Peyton Manning had very similar numbers at the exact same stage of his career, including the 0-for-playoffs. (yes, I realize he is not Peyton Manning.)

And yes, I was about done with him after last season's horrible showing against the Chargers.

But I fully expect to be pulling my hair out many times this season.