The 2010 MLB Season Thread

[Lathum]

Name one mid season acquisition the White Sox have done in the last 5 years even close to making a deal for Lee.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Name one mid season acquisition the White Sox have done in the last 5 years even close to making a deal for Lee.

Peavy

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Let's take a step back for a second. The Rangers have a great farm system. It isn't like they have no one else in the system and dealt their only future star. Sometimes you need to deal big prospects every once in a while to improve you team while still growing home grown talent.

I agree they have a very rich farm system that is why I dislike this trade for them. They traded away their best hitting prospect when they all could have developed together and challenged the Yankees in the future. Now they took that big power bat in the future out of their lineup to try and win this year where realistically they arent close to the Yankees or Rays for that matter IMO.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Your saying the Pirates in a 5 game series with the Yankees is basically a coin flip? Thats crazy.

Yankees would be -300 at the worst.

Not quite a coin flip, but the Pirates would win that 5 game series at least 25-30% of the time.

For the Rangers though, they'd be no worse than a 45% shot in any series.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Peavy

lol

Trading for an injured Jake Peavy who had an ERA of almost 4 pitching in Petco, who after the trade made all of 3 starts for the White Sox is comparable to trading for Lee?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

Not quite a coin flip, but the Pirates would win that 5 game series at least 25-30% of the time.

For the Rangers though, they'd be no worse than a 45% shot in any series.

Agree to disagree on the Rangers.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I agree they have a very rich farm system that is why I dislike this trade for them. They traded away their best hitting prospect when they all could have developed together and challenged the Yankees in the future. Now they took that big power bat in the future out of their lineup to try and win this year where realistically they arent close to the Yankees or Rays for that matter IMO.

Sounds somewhat like when the Rays traded away one of their best hitting prospects (who finished 2nd in ROY voting) to the Twins for a pitcher and SS. Yes, I realize that Garza and Barlett were young players and not the same as Lee, but the point stands.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

lol

Trading for an injured Jake Peavy who had an ERA of almost 4 pitching in Petco, who after the trade made all of 3 starts for the White Sox is comparable to trading for Lee?

hindsight is 20/20 isnt it? At the time of the trade the White Sox thought they were getting an ace just like the Rangers do with Lee.

If Lee sucks it up in Texas which is very possible knowing their history with pitchers are you going to be on here next year saying this Lee trade wasnt comparable to next years ace that will be dealt because Lee sucked it up with the Rangers.

Cmon Lathum.

[ISiddiqui]

And FWIW, the Rangers have historically had great hitting lineups. Their problem has ALWAYS been pitching.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Sounds somewhat like when the Rays traded away one of their best hitting prospects (who finished 2nd in ROY voting) to the Twins for a pitcher and SS. Yes, I realize that Garza and Barlett were young players and not the same as Lee, but the point stands.

That was a trade with all young prospects and needs. I dont really see the comparison.

The Rays had plenty of good OFs which the Twins needed while the Twins had a lot of young arms which the Rays needed at the time. Its not as if the Rays gave up Delmon Young for Brad Radke.

[ISiddiqui]

Rangers need an ace. They have plenty of hitting prospects. What's the difference? Other than Cliff Lee is an established ace pitcher?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Rangers need an ace. They have plenty of hitting prospects. What's the difference? Other than Cliff Lee is an established ace pitcher?

Its for 2 months not 5/6 years.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

hindsight is 20/20 isnt it? At the time of the trade the White Sox thought they were getting an ace just like the Rangers do with Lee.

If Lee sucks it up in Texas which is very possible knowing their history with pitchers are you going to be on here next year saying this Lee trade wasnt comparable to next years ace that will be dealt because Lee sucked it up with the Rangers.

Cmon Lathum.

Are you kidding me!

They knew Peavy was injured when they traded for him. The Rangers don't make this move if they know Lee can't pitch for them for six weeks. IIRC the whole sentiment behind the Peavy deal was they still would have him for the rest of his contract if he didn't work out for them the rest of that season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Super prospects are often enough just usual suspects.

Look no further than the sure fire can't miss Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Are you kidding me!

They knew Peavy was injured when they traded for him. The Rangers don't make this move if they know Lee can't pitch for them for six weeks. IIRC the whole sentiment behind the Peavy deal was they still would have him for the rest of his contract if he didn't work out for them the rest of that season.

Has your argument suddenly changed? I thought the White Sox traded for him knowing that he was over the hill so it wasnt comparable to the Lee trade. The Sox fully expected him to be back after 15 days actually last year. They traded for him with the full intentions of having him back soon. Once they fell 7-9 games back they decided it would be better to rest Peavy.

[Lathum]

Where did I ever say he was over the hill?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Comparing going out and getting an over the hill Ken Griffey Jr. or a broken down Jake Peavy to getting possibly the best pitcher in baseball and a guy who was unhittable in the playoffs last year is absurd.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Where did I ever say he was over the hill?

My bad. They traded for a broken down pitcher were your words. Interesting that they gave up so many prospects if thats what they thought.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

Great, now we have a injured Jake Peavy. and we gave up Poreda . FUCK. OMG, and Richard? and Adam Russel! WTF are the Chisox thinking. thats retarded. FML

From last year's thread.

edit:

Hell, I put this in the thread last year.

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

"Frankly I am flabbergasted that the White Sox would want to make this deal with him in his physical condition," [Peavy agent Barry] Axelrod said.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

My bad. They traded for a broken down pitcher were your words. Interesting that they gave up so many prospects if thats what they thought.

no one ever said it was a good deal.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

From last year's thread.

edit:

Hell, I put this in the thread last year.

Bingo!

This is why I hate trades like this. If the Rangers dont win the World Series they gave up a big part of their future for nothing. Im sure the Sox thought Peavy would be the key into getting them into the playoffs and possibly a World Series and now all they have is a hurt pitcher and missing a big part of their future.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

If the Sox thought that, they were fucking morons. That's the point I'm trying to make. It is NOTHING like the Lee deal.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

no one ever said it was a good deal.

Well my point was that the White Sox thought they were getting their Lee last year and it didnt work out so well for them.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

If the Sox thought that, they were fucking morons. That's the point I'm trying to make. It is NOTHING like the Lee deal.

Seems pretty similiar to me.

Lee pitching in a pitchers park and now going to a hitters park. Lee is also a flyball pitcher which isnt a great thing for Texas either.

I guess we will have to pull up this part of the thread next year at this time

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The point I'm just making is that the two trades are not the same. Peavy was more for the future than anything, counting on him being able to bounce back from injury.

Lee is 3 months of Cy Young caliber pitching, then a first round and a sandwich pick.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Seems pretty similiar to me.

Lee pitching in a pitchers park and now going to a hitters park. Lee is also a flyball pitcher which isnt a great thing for Texas either.

I guess we will have to pull up this part of the thread next year at this time

You realize Lee was lights out for the Phillies in the playoffs last year pitching in 2 hitters parks?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You realize Lee was lights out for the Phillies in the playoffs last year pitching in 2 hitters parks?

Yes, I like Lee as a pitcher.

Pitching in Texas is a different animal though. I used to think Rich Harden had unhittable stuff but was just a pussy. He has been horrible for Texas. I wont say I have a solution for them but Texas has brought in a lot of good pitchers and they always seem to underperform there. Adding to this for me is that Lee is a flyball pitcher which to me makes him seem like an even worse fit for that park.

I guess we will have to wait and see but I just feel giving up Smoak was too much. Mostly because I think Smoak is going to be a beast.

I also think the Mariners demands were ridiculous. They wanted to Twins two top prospects for him. I was very surprised anyone was going to bite on their demands.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I guess we will have to wait and see but I just feel giving up Smoak was too much. Mostly because I think Smoak is going to be a beast.

I also think the Mariners demands were ridiculous. They wanted to Twins two top prospects for him. I was very surprised anyone was going to bite on their demands.

In a vacuum, this is a reasonable opinion. It's most of the other stuff that caused people to disagree with you.

Also re: demands, the Yankees were ready to throw in Montero, so obviously the Rangers weren't alone on this one.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Talking out my ass?

Start at the top of page 49 of this thread where you tried initially to make the link that Lee this year = Peavy last year. Follow your contention that the White Sox thought Peavy was an ace, even though his own agent didn't think he was. Follow how everyone showed you how wrong you were. Follow until the bottom of page 49 where you get to your main point, that you *think* Texas gave up too much because you *think* Smoak will be a beast.

Trying to make up an argument to support an opinion of yours = talking out of your ass. It's okay to have an opinion, just stick with that and that only.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Logan

Start at the top of page 49 of this thread where you tried initially to make the link that Lee this year = Peavy last year. Follow your contention that the White Sox thought Peavy was an ace, even though his own agent didn't think he was. Follow how everyone showed you how wrong you were. Follow until the bottom of page 49 where you get to your main point, that you *think* Texas gave up too much because you *think* Smoak will be a beast.

Trying to make up an argument to support an opinion of yours = talking out of your ass. It's okay to have an opinion, just stick with that and that only.

Basically the only thing you got correct out of all of that is yes I do think Texas gave up too much.

Peavy's agent didnt think he was an ace? Where the fuck does that come from? Peavy should be looking for a new agent if his agent really said that. Lathum actually brought up Peavy so I am not sure how initially I tried to say Peavy=Lee. I actually thought Peavy was very overrated when the Sox got him because his road ERA was alot higher than his home ERA but that doesnt change the fact that Chicago was 1-2 games out when they made a bunch of moves last year and they gave up 3 great prospects for him. I guess we'd have to ask Kenny Williams what his thinking was with Peavy as I doubt anyone on here really knows.

I am also not sure how I was proved wrong as my opinion is just that and we will have no way of knowing how right or wrong anyone is for a few years.

I believe you may be the one talking about of your ass.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Name one mid season acquisition the White Sox have done in the last 5 years even close to making a deal for Lee.

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Peavy

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Lathum actually brought up Peavy so I am not sure how initially I tried to say Peavy=Lee.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Comparing going out and getting an over the hill Ken Griffey Jr. or a broken down Jake Peavy to getting possibly the best pitcher in baseball and a guy who was unhittable in the playoffs last year is absurd.

Did you forget this post? Which again wasnt me INITIALLY comparing Lee to Peavy. This was an assumption made by you which later on brought out the comparisons.

[ISiddiqui]

Also look at this way, the Rangers are up 4.5 games on the Angels. That's a decent lead, but definitely NOT insurmountable. Various studies show that the financial impact of making the playoffs is huge. So even if he helps them simply make the playoffs, it may have been a big gamble... especially because they get picks for him if he leaves after the year.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Did you forget this post? Which again wasnt me INITIALLY comparing Lee to Peavy. This was an assumption made by you which later on brought out the comparisons.

If not Peavy, who were you referring to when you said:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

First of all this move guarantees nothings. The White Sox are always throwing shit against the fan around this time of year and it hardly ever works out for them.

Because that is what started the Peavy talk (as the most obvious and recent example of this).

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

If not Peavy, who were you referring to when you said:



Because that is what started the Peavy talk (as the most obvious and recent example of this).

The White Sox in general. Kenny Williams has a history of strange agqressive moves around the trade deadline. This isnt a new development that I made up. If I had meant simply Peavy I would have mentioned him.

Anyway I am done with this. Other than a few great posts some people have had, this is just piling on me for having a different opinion.

[lungs]

Wouldn't the Brewers trading for CC Sabathia in '08 be a more apt comparison?

I remember Brewer fans at least complaining that giving up an impact bat like Matt LaPorta was absurd for a rental like Sabathia.

While it did not get my Brew Crew to the World Series, nothing in my life as a Brewer fan has been as memorable as '08 and even this year when the Brewers aren't nearly as good, they are still drawing well attendance wise.

LaPorta? Looks like a fairly mediocre first baseman with a career .254/.316/.418 line, though he is young enough that he could get better. But it's not as if the Brewers traded Albert Pujols (or Prince Fielder for that matter) for Sabathia.

None of the other pieces have made an impact for Cleveland either.

I'd have to double check, but I think one of the comp picks the Brewers got might be pretty decent.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by lungs

Wouldn't the Brewers trading for CC Sabathia in '08 be a more apt comparison?

I remember Brewer fans at least complaining that giving up an impact bat like Matt LaPorta was absurd for a rental like Sabathia.

While it did not get my Brew Crew to the World Series, nothing in my life as a Brewer fan has been as memorable as '08 and even this year when the Brewers aren't nearly as good, they are still drawing well attendance wise.

LaPorta? Looks like a fairly mediocre first baseman with a career .254/.316/.418 line, though he is young enough that he could get better. But it's not as if the Brewers traded Albert Pujols (or Prince Fielder for that matter) for Sabathia.

None of the other pieces have made an impact for Cleveland either.

I'd have to double check, but I think one of the comp picks the Brewers got might be pretty decent.

This is a great example.

[Chief Rum]

I think you have to look at it deal by deal. Take the Angels, for example.

Two years ago, they deal for Teixeira and move their young starting 1B Casey Kotchman in the mdidle of his best year, along with a couple of mediocre prospects. No one thought Kotch was a star, but he looked solid. He pretty much went to crap after that, and hasn't fared much better since with the Red Sox and M's.

Meanwhile, Teixeira was a huge power bat for the Angels the rest of the way. They didn't need it, as they were already running away with the division, but he gave them a very dangerous look. And then in the offseason, the pick they got from the Yankees (for signing Teix), IIRC, became Mike Trout, who Keith Law recently had in his Top 5 prospects. I might have the picks switched and Trout is the Met's pick for signing KRod, but even so, than we got a well-regarded OF prospect in Grichuk. I would say that worked out for the Angels.

But then you look at last year's Kazmir deal. Awful deal. The Angels scouts dropped the ball on that one and misread Kazmir's issues or underrated the drop in ability he has seen in his pitches, particularly his slider and his fastball. They gave up two very solid Single A prospects to the Rays, and Sean Roadriguez, who has played well at 2B, much better than his minor league tag team buddy Brandon Wood, who stayed behind in Anaheim and has sucked. Meanwhile we're stuck with Kazmir's cotnract through next year, too, and his crapitude has contributed heavily to the Angels' inconsistency this season. Heck, he set a MLB record for earned runs allowed on Saturday.

Jury's still out on Lee, and even on the Peavy deal. We'll see how it works. As a rival team fan, I was glad to see the M's extract such a high price from the Rangers.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But then you look at last year's Kazmir deal. Awful deal. The Angels scouts dropped the ball on that one and misread Kazmir's issues or underrated the drop in ability he has seen in his pitches, particularly his slider and his fastball. They gave up two very solid Single A prospects to the Rays, and Sean Roadriguez, who has played well at 2B, much better than his minor league tag team buddy Brandon Wood, who stayed behind in Anaheim and has sucked. Meanwhile we're stuck with Kazmir's cotnract through next year, too, and his crapitude has contributed heavily to the Angels' inconsistency this season.

I remember saying this for a year or so prior to Kazmir being traded, and would love to make fun of the Angels for a rare misstep, but then we signed John Lackey and his declining swinging strike % to a 5-year deal.

No HR derby or A-S game talk? But it's a the most exciting event of the year other than the WS!

[JS19]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I remember saying this for a year or so prior to Kazmir being traded, and would love to make fun of the Angels for a rare misstep, but then we signed John Lackey and his declining swinging strike % to a 5-year deal.

No HR derby or A-S game talk? But it's a the most exciting event of the year other than the WS!

0-0 in the 5th. Actually shaping up to be a good game.

[Bad-example]

I tuned out when they had some ugly, barely intelligible kid reading the lineup.

[Scoobz0202]

I enjoy the All-Star game. Just not much to talk about.

Braun had a really nice diving catch in left. That's about it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Bingo!

This is why I hate trades like this. If the Rangers dont win the World Series they gave up a big part of their future for nothing. Im sure the Sox thought Peavy would be the key into getting them into the playoffs and possibly a World Series and now all they have is a hurt pitcher and missing a big part of their future.

Fans tend to greatly overrate prospects. If you're in the Rangers position and have a decent farm system then trading for a player that greatly increases your chances of not only getting to the playoffs, but actually doing something when you get there is a no-brainer.

Smoak may turn into a great player in the future, but the jury is still definitely out on him. He's nowhere close to a sure thing. Cliff Lee is one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball and we're talking about a team that hasn't made it to the postseason since '99.

[Scoobz0202]

National League! WOOOO!

[larrymcg421]

Yay for Brian McCann!

I don't generally get excited for the All-Star game (except when I got to attend), but it's always nice to see a Brave get a huge hit.

[Scoobz0202]

NL Central - 3
AL - 1


(a little help from a friendly Braves catcher)

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

NL Central - 3
AL - 1


(a little help from a friendly Braves catcher)

Well it's about time the Central does something...I mean you have how many teams

[kingfc22]

I'm glad they've added all these extra players to water down being an "All-Star" only to run out of players by the 8th inning. WTF!

[EagleFan]

Has that no talent "actor" received more air time during this freaking all-star game than during any of those garbage star trek shows?

[bhlloy]

Holy crap, Valverde's stuff is ridiculous. Can't think of many splitters I've ever seen that dive like that.