The Trump Presidency – 2016

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by bronconick

If he loses badly, he'll leave office early and leave Pence to do the transition for a pardon. New York State will have to chase him down if they want him.

Interesting theory. He's on a plane to his golf course in Scotland before election night is over and tweets out his resignation. That is a distinct possibility.

I certainly do not see him doing all of the stuff that an outgoing President normally does (like attending the swearing in of the new guy).

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Interesting theory. He's on a plane to his golf course in Scotland before election night is over and tweets out his resignation. That is a distinct possibility.

I certainly do not see him doing all of the stuff that an outgoing President normally does (like attending the swearing in of the new guy).

I figure there are few places where he can slink off to and he's definitely going scorched earth.

I would also figure at some point if Democrats win (and they would have to win the Presidency and Senate), there would be for the sake of everyone an agreement. Enablers like Barr, Stone, and that ilk would probably see some sort of jail time (deferred). Fox News and OAN would label them all conservative martyrs. Rush would exalt them to his last breath.

Hopefully like I said, the cronies instilled would be flushed like the turds they are. Installation of competent judges rather than lackeys would start.

The agreement simply would be that Trump would be stuck at Mar-a-Lago without Twitter access or the ability to discuss any insight into anything at any network. His wife would soon be his ex-wife after scoring a revised pre-nup to do what she always intended to do. His dumb adult children would scurry off for endorsements but never reaching the heights like he did. Any violation would be met with litigation, but with coffers that are limited and a public throwing money at the next conservative blowhard to stop fascism. I would hope his biggest accomplishment to the American people would be to pass from this Earth on the gold commode seething about how fast he lost as he tried to pass out the last remnants of a partially eaten McDonald's burger.

Either that or he's going to Russia.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Ok, I'm game - so what's going on? I mean I tried to go onto the Talk page but it's like a mile long. Like how can you tell that there are different pages for different languages

SI

Quite simple, if you know some basic wikipedia and the short 2 character abbreviations of the various languages. I've checked English (en.) vs Dutch (nl.), French (fr.), Italian (it.), German (de.) and Spanish (es.). Only English has "America" redirect to "United States". All the others simply show information about America (or whatever the spelling is in that language) or to a "disambiguation" page.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Stage One Proceeding On Schedule: White House Official: Trump Was Just Joking About Stifling COVID Testing!

Not a tweet, but pretty much Stage 2.

REPORTER: Did you really ask to slow down coronavirus testing?

TRUMP: “If it did slow down, frankly, I think we’re way ahead of ourselves, if you wanna know the truth. We’ve done too good of a job.” pic.twitter.com/zy4LAWcCii

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) June 22, 2020

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by panerd

Oh yeah he won't go quietly. However much to the chagrin of a large chunk of this board I don't think the reaction will be the country burning. In fact there really is only one extreme end of either political party that has burned down cities and taken over part of a major metropolis. A black president was elected and the "silent racist majority" didn't do anything like we have seen in the past several weeks. My fear would be the country burning due to a Trump reelection.

Not to be misinterpreted as my wanting anything but a new President. My personal preference would be Jorgensen then Biden. Just feel like it's hard to claim one extreme side won't take the election results seriously when another extreme side has already stooped to lawlessness and anarchy.

Difference between protesting the murder of unarmed people and protesting election results?

[Qwikshot]

https://twitter.com/Devilstower/stat...22744084643840



There may be a reckoning coming (and yes I know it's from a writer from Daily Kos, so we may need to get more data).

[panerd]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Difference between protesting the murder of unarmed people and protesting election results?

Not talking about the protestors. Talking about the subset of rioters and looters and the Republic of Seattle are whatever they are calling it.

[Thomkal]

I hope our intelligence agencies/law enforcement/etc are already working on plans for the day after he loses (or God forbid wins). Journalists need to dig deep to find any schemes the Trump Family might already be cooking up. He never appeared for his own impeachment hearing let alone put forth any plausible defense of his actions. I don't think there's a chance any of them stick around for a trial or Congressional oversight/investigations, especially if Congress does get hold of his taxes before the election and it shows what many of them think it will show.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Interesting theory. He's on a plane to his golf course in Scotland before election night is over and tweets out his resignation. That is a distinct possibility.

I certainly do not see him doing all of the stuff that an outgoing President normally does (like attending the swearing in of the new guy).

Does Scotland (well GB I guess) have an extradition treaty with the US?

Asking for a friend...

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Does Scotland (well GB I guess) have an extradition treaty with the US?

Asking for a friend...

There is an extradition treaty between the UK and the US, yes.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not talking about the protestors. Talking about the subset of rioters and looters and the Republic of Seattle are whatever they are calling it.

I think you have a tough time connecting the looters to the protestors. But if you want to, there were examples of this during Obama. There was a Tea Party event that included throwing metal barricades at the WH fence. There were a couple of high profile anti-government stand-offs. There was a congressman shouting at Obama during the State of the Union.

[ISiddiqui]

Not to mention from everything people in Seattle have reported CHAZ seems like a festival more than Escape from New York.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Not to mention from everything people in Seattle have reported CHAZ seems like a festival more than Escape from New York.

I'm sure the guy who was killed is having a blast.

[ISiddiqui]

One guy got killed in 2 weeks of CHAZ, it must be a post-apocalyptic hellscape! Even though the folks who live in Seattle say it's basically a hippie hangout - because what do the people who actually live there know...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm sure the guy who was killed is having a blast.

It is a big city, people get shot all the time.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It is a big city, people get shot all the time.

Probably just a few bad apples

SI

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

One guy got killed in 2 weeks of CHAZ, it must be a post-apocalyptic hellscape! Even though the folks who live in Seattle say it's basically a hippie hangout - because what do the people who actually live there know...

Actually multiple have been shot.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Actually multiple have been shot.

Look at the interesting moving goalposts while failing to address anything else... 3 people have been shot in the last two weeks (in the center of a major city), including the 2 at the same time that resulted in the person getting killed (which seems may have been because they shot each other).

[thesloppy]

I don't think it's fair to characterize a white dude purposely driving an unmarked SUV into the CHOP and shooting black teenagers as a purely leftist crime. Likewise, plenty of the looting and violence has proven to be perpetrated & instigated by reactionary right-wing groups & individuals.

While I think it is generally true that demographics practically dictate that only leftist causes & localities are popular and public enough to get to the point that the scale of protesting allows for looting and violence, the people committing the chaos & crime are not so easily pigeonholed.

[ISiddiqui]

'Remember Who We're Fighting For': The Uneasy Existence Of Seattle's Protest Camp : NPR

The open-air protest camp is a week old. In that time, protesters have established a food co-op, a community garden, medical stations, a speaker's stage, movie nights, book exchanges and round-the-clock security patrols. They see their camp as a prototype for a self-reliant, safe enclave that doesn't need police.

Black activists say there must be follow-through to make sure their communities remain the priority in a majority-white protest movement whose camp has taken on the feel of a neighborhood block party that's periodically interrupted by chants of "Black Lives Matter!"

Sean, a white law enforcement officer who declined to give his full name because he doesn't have authorization to speak, said he felt "duped" by the alarmist coverage of right-wing outlets like Breitbart. He said that doesn't mean he buys into "white guilt" narratives but that he appreciates the importance of seeing the protests through his own eyes, without the partisan filter.

"We can walk away, shake hands and leave, respecting each other but maybe not agreeing. And maybe agreeing a little more," Sean said. "Me being here is just moving the marker."

Sounds just like Somalia in the 90s!

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Actually multiple have been shot.

Eh, you know better than us that people are expendable. What are the economic costs of this situation? That's what I'm concerned about. Is it fiscally responsible?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Eh, you know better than us that people are expendable. What are the economic costs of this situation? That's what I'm concerned about. Is it fiscally responsible?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

One guy got killed in 2 weeks of CHAZ, it must be a post-apocalyptic hellscape! Even though the folks who live in Seattle say it's basically a hippie hangout - because what do the people who actually live there know...

I have a coworker that's close friends with someone with an apartment in the middle of the CHAZ. His only complaint is the noise goes well after midnight every day.

[CarterNMA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I have a coworker that's close friends with someone with an apartment in the middle of the CHAZ. His only complaint is the noise goes well after midnight every day.

Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure.

[albionmoonlight]

A day ahead of Trump’s visit to Arizona, GOP Senator Martha McSally proposes giving taxpayers *$4,000 each* to take a vacation.

Couples would get $8,000 in vacation tax credits, plus $500 per kid.

— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) June 23, 2020

To her credit, she isn't hiding the bread and circuses: "Vote for me because I want to send you to Disneyworld."

[panerd]

Not sure why more groups of people haven't forcibly taken over parts of American cities and declared themselves a sovereign state. Some of you guys will pander to any liberal cause won't you?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not sure why more groups of people haven't forcibly taken over parts of American cities and declared themselves a sovereign state. Some of you guys will pander to any liberal cause won't you?

CHAZ does break the right wing monopoly on it. It's about time we had some both sides there.

For me, personally, I want it to ends simply because I'm tired it being portrayed as a war zone and getting questions and comments from mine and my wife's families about how bad it must be here. I also don't see a way where it disbands smoothly and peacefully at this point.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not sure why more groups of people haven't forcibly taken over parts of American cities and declared themselves a sovereign state. Some of you guys will pander to any liberal cause won't you?

Seattle is a different world, would be a fun experiment to leave them to form their own economy. I honestly don't get what the end game is here. I actually think there gets to be a point where shit like this detracts from the result so many of us are trying to achieve with speaking out, protests and lending support.

And Dola, those tea party asshats that did this in Oregon were praised as Patriots by many. Extremism swings both ways.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

A day ahead of Trump’s visit to Arizona, GOP Senator Martha McSally proposes giving taxpayers *$4,000 each* to take a vacation.

Couples would get $8,000 in vacation tax credits, plus $500 per kid.

— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) June 23, 2020

To her credit, she isn't hiding the bread and circuses: "Vote for me because I want to send you to Disneyworld."

That's because Mark Kelly is kicking her ass in polls right now and the GOP here fears two Dem senators.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

CHAZ does break the right wing monopoly on it. It's about time we had some both sides there.

For me, personally, I want it to ends simply because I'm tired it being portrayed as a war zone and getting questions and comments from mine and my wife's families about how bad it must be here. I also don't see a way where it disbands smoothly and peacefully at this point.

Yeah the right wing nut jobs are so sympathetic.

Of course it isn't going to end well! Why should this end well?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

And Dola, those tea party asshats that did this in Oregon were praised as Patriots by many. Extremism swings both ways.

Yes! Which is exactly the problem. Live by the D/R paradigm die by the D/R paradigm. Of course the idiots in Oregon were wrong! Was that ever in question? Was that seriously ever in question by any sane person? Does any sane person think this is a good idea in Seattle?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yes! Which is exactly the problem. Live by the D/R paradigm die by the D/R paradigm. Of course the idiots in Oregon were wrong! Was that ever in question? Was that seriously ever in question by any sane person? Does any sane person think this is a good idea in Seattle?

I don't in either case, but then I'm an independent, so........

[panerd]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I don't in either case, but then I'm an independent, so........

So why make the point about Oregon?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

A day ahead of Trump’s visit to Arizona, GOP Senator Martha McSally proposes giving taxpayers *$4,000 each* to take a vacation.

Couples would get $8,000 in vacation tax credits, plus $500 per kid.

— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) June 23, 2020

To her credit, she isn't hiding the bread and circuses: "Vote for me because I want to send you to Disneyworld."

Originally Posted by BYU 14

That's because Mark Kelly is kicking her ass in polls right now and the GOP here fears two Dem senators.

Dola and what could possibly go wring with people traveling from states with spikes in Covid to other states that are in better shape?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by panerd

So why make the point about Oregon?

Pointing out the lunacy and hypocrisy of both extremes, which is laughable at times.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yes! Which is exactly the problem. Live by the D/R paradigm die by the D/R paradigm. Of course the idiots in Oregon were wrong! Was that ever in question? Was that seriously ever in question by any sane person? Does any sane person think this is a good idea in Seattle?

You can point out that it isn't a warzone and that it's way different than some of the media is portraying it without supporting it. I can say it's largely a hippy, peaceful, and chill area and not agree with what's going on. We're capable of having complex thoughts.

FWIW, I don't actually think it's a good idea and if they were going to do something like this I do think it would have been best to show you can organize a safe, police free zone for a week and then transition power back to the city peacefully. That's not what's happening here and I don't currently see an easy way to transition back to the city at this point without the risk of someone else trying to take control and play out their warlord fantasy.
However, I can promise people that (as of now) Seattle is not burning to the ground, women and children aren't being raped and abused, and it's not Escape from LA come to life.

The right has Oregon and there are more than 200 right wing militias that have set up defacto sovereign states throughout the country that local police aren't going to enter without either federal or state backup or calling ahead to arrange a meeting. These groups are largely immune from the law within their compounds. But 1 left wing disorganized group does some shit and simply because everyone isn't marching against it we're pandering to it?

If we get 50 more of these we can look at both-sidesism and pandering. Until then the only thing CHAZ has done is break up the shutout.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by panerd

A black president was elected and the "silent racist majority" didn't do anything like we have seen in the past several weeks. My fear would be the country burning due to a Trump reelection.

Conservatives forget history in discrediting Trump protesters | TheHill

"Obama’s presidency was marked by effigies of our first black president hanging from nooses across the country, for example in Kentucky, Washington State, and Maine, or being burned around the world. What Trump supporters fail to remember is that following Obama’s election, property was destroyed across the country, for example in Pennsylvania, Texas, and North Carolina, and a predominately black church was torched in Massachusetts."

I mean, at least we agree that there's an increasingly less silent racist faction, I don't know that it's the "majority".

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Atocep

You can point out that it isn't a warzone and that it's way different than some of the media is portraying it without supporting it. I can say it's largely a hippy, peaceful, and chill area and not agree with what's going on. We're capable of having complex thoughts.

IMO, it seems that the people of Seattle and the Seattle government are fine with letting them play it out, blow off some (non-violent) steam, so I'm fine with it. The issue will be when it's time to say, ok, time of pack it up. Of course I have a feeling that sooner rather than later, individual people are just going to go home.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

IMO, it seems that the people of Seattle and the Seattle government are fine with letting them play it out, blow off some (non-violent) steam, so I'm fine with it. The issue will be when it's time to say, ok, time of pack it up. Of course I have a feeling that sooner rather than later, individual people are just going to go home.

Have there been any polls of the people of Seattle about this? And I mean actual residents of Seattle, not the people that came for the occupation. I honestly don't know the answer.

And it seems last night the mayor was getting ready to take back the occupied zone. Guess she's getting tired of letting them blow off steam.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

IMO, it seems that the people of Seattle and the Seattle government are fine with letting them play it out, blow off some (non-violent) steam, so I'm fine with it. The issue will be when it's time to say, ok, time of pack it up. Of course I have a feeling that sooner rather than later, individual people are just going to go home.

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Have there been any polls of the people of Seattle about this? And I mean actual residents of Seattle, not the people that came for the occupation. I honestly don't know the answer.

And it seems last night the mayor was getting ready to take back the occupied zone. Guess she's getting tired of letting them blow off steam.

They are talking about plans to clear the zone now, because the activity at night has become increasingly violent/counter productive, and is starting to detract from the cause.

Seattle will move to dismantle protest zone, mayor says

[JPhillips]

The lessons from Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. are to let these protests play out with a pretty soft hand. Negotiations and slowly amped up pressure will work better than storming the area.

[JPhillips]

dola

White Nationalists are gonna white nationalist

President Trump on Monday extended a freeze on green cards for new immigrants and signed an executive order to suspend new H-1B, L-1, J and other temporary work visas for skilled workers, managers and au pairs through the end of the year.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

White Nationalists are gonna white nationalist

The Fox news crew is not gonna be happy losing their au pairs

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

dola

White Nationalists are gonna white nationalist

Losing all these engineers, etc...from India, China, etc...is going to be devastating.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It will be fun to watch conservatives all say over the next 24 hours that Trump wasn't serious about ordering reduced testing. Then for Trump to tweet that of course he was serious. Then for those same conservatives to all then defend him saying that of course he ordered less testing because the fake news was just using testing numbers to make him look bad.

Nailed it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/polit...nse/index.html

[Qwikshot]

There really is no evolution for him, just like the majority of his supporters.

Whine, oppress, repeat.

I only hope his fat ass finds a seat in prison.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Nailed it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/polit...nse/index.html

..and these dudes are fast!

During the biggest health crisis of this generation, @realDonaldTrump asked his officials to slow down the one thing that could keep us safe: testing.

How many families suffered and lives were lost because of his gross criminality? #AmericaOrTrump pic.twitter.com/xWYvodknE5

— The Lincoln Project (@ProjectLincoln) June 23, 2020

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

..and these dudes are fast!

During the biggest health crisis of this generation, @realDonaldTrump asked his officials to slow down the one thing that could keep us safe: testing.

How many families suffered and lives were lost because of his gross criminality? #AmericaOrTrump pic.twitter.com/xWYvodknE5

— The Lincoln Project (@ProjectLincoln) June 23, 2020

They are Biden's best asset right now

[JPhillips]

The Trump administration is ending funding and support for local COVID-19 testing sites around the country this month, as cases and hospitalizations are skyrocketing in many states.


The federal government will stop providing money and support for 13 sites across five states which were originally set up in the first months of the pandemic to speed up testing at the local level.

I'm sure this isn't connected to anything.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Atocep

You can point out that it isn't a warzone and that it's way different than some of the media is portraying it without supporting it. I can say it's largely a hippy, peaceful, and chill area and not agree with what's going on. We're capable of having complex thoughts.

FWIW, I don't actually think it's a good idea and if they were going to do something like this I do think it would have been best to show you can organize a safe, police free zone for a week and then transition power back to the city peacefully. That's not what's happening here and I don't currently see an easy way to transition back to the city at this point without the risk of someone else trying to take control and play out their warlord fantasy.
However, I can promise people that (as of now) Seattle is not burning to the ground, women and children aren't being raped and abused, and it's not Escape from LA come to life.

The right has Oregon and there are more than 200 right wing militias that have set up defacto sovereign states throughout the country that local police aren't going to enter without either federal or state backup or calling ahead to arrange a meeting. These groups are largely immune from the law within their compounds. But 1 left wing disorganized group does some shit and simply because everyone isn't marching against it we're pandering to it?

If we get 50 more of these we can look at both-sidesism and pandering. Until then the only thing CHAZ has done is break up the shutout.

I agree with you on the complexity comment, and agree that both sides are whacko and wrong.

However I think there is a bit of a disconnect in the specifics of the CHAZ deal vs some of the referenced "sovereign states (whih is bullshit - just to be clear)"

But Bundy Ranch was public lands where a family had a legal right to be and graze animals.
WACO was private property...
It gets a bit different when we allow a group to occupy and control public property and municipal owned (and tax supported) buildings.

I think that is a significant point of distinction here.

Ive said before Im fairly libertarian..."pure freedom" on one's own property and their own body...that doesnt extend to just taking over my neighbors house to do what I want in...