WW LXXXVI - The Charmed Ones (Game Over - Innocents Win)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Not so much. That no kill isn't as nice as it seems.

They went after someone. They went after me. And I'm not surprised. I was too strongly reactive when I found myself on the line, and they saw what I was driving at, even as the rest of the village did not.

I am Leo, and the demons know it now.

I was approached last night, but used my powers to avoid attack. But I was told they now know who I am, and that an attack from a Dark Lighter will likely come next.

This is my fault, I know, but I am hopeful something good may come of it. I received clues in my PM about what I perceived about my attacker. I AM STILL MULLING THEM OVER BEFORE REVEALING THEM, because I am not sure yet what they're saying.

Here, I bolded the key statement above and capped a particularly important portion of it, since I think you missed it.

This is from Post 192 above.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

my bad.


I see no reason why you wouldn't reveal them at this point

Oh, I thought maybe you were playing with me there. Ignore my follow up.

[Chief Rum]

I will reveal them. I am just trying to decide if I can put any meaning to them before I do it, make sure I am not missing something obvious.

I'm sure you can tell I didn't get something so simple as a name.

[EagleFan]

Will be logging to get some sleep soon. Will remain around for a few if there any questions that need answered.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Will be logging to get some sleep soon. Will remain around for a few if there any questions that need answered.

who are the wolves?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

who are the wolves?

Heh, I'll second that.

[EagleFan]

Evil cries fill the air. Eveything seems to simultaneously stand still and swirl with chaos. Insanity reigns yet again.

Another flash of light, smoke fills the air, there is movement all around but you can see nothing.

Everything settles down and the roadie is huddled in a lump on the floor. You approach cautiously to check on him and he slumps over lifelessly. Crystals fall from his pocket onto the floor. His eyes! Look at his eyes! They appear to have looked into the face of pure evil, frozen in terror forever.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

who are the wolves?

They are...

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I have gone over the rules, and definitely have some questions about things, questions I may need to ask, but hope that the rest of the village will follow up.

I did not find anything, though, that would enlighten me as to what my clues mine, so I will toss them out there and let the rest of you try to work it out.

I was basically given four pieces of information:

1. I saw who attacked me, but it was blurry, and I was unable to identify him before escaping. This person was described as a male, but that doesn't surprise me, as there are few obvious female demon roles (Sea Hag).

2. He appeared to me to be similar to the bartender. I hope it's okay for me to put it that way, because I don't know how else to say that without copying the PM quote word for word. There is no bartender role, and I went back and reviewed all of EF's posts. He never includes a bartender in any of his writeups. No idea if this was just color, but since the intent seemed to be to give me a clue, I doubt it was just literary excess.

3. This was the most interesting. It said this attack was this person's first on me today, and that he was happy to kill a non-wolf with the day lynch. More on this in a second.

4. The letters D and I. Do they mean something to any of you? Because I got the impression they meant something to my attacker or the evil we're facing. I have no clue where that's going. We have any Charmed fanatics here who might tie this to some plot line?

Again, I apologize to EF if this is too literal. I'm not sure how else to put it. The above is not a direct quote from my PM, but I guess it might as well be.

Now, back to 2 and 3.

#2-- we have a player in this game who is known by a synonym for bartender in Barkeep49. Could it be that obvious?

#3-- My first thought was that this was the first attack, how could there be any others? So why would I be told it was the attacker's first attempt on me? I thought about it some more, and I decided that a lynch vote is sorta like an "attempt".

In other words, my attacker didn't vote for me on Day One. That also lends itself to the second part, saying he was happy to have killed HL.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, I think I figured out #4. And I did it by typing out the full name of my attacker.

Barkeep...4...9.

The 4th letter of the alphabet == D
The 9th letter of the alphabet == I

He also voted for HL, and, of course, could be confused as a bartender.

That also means he is not the Dark Lighter. Because I would be dead otherwise.

VOTE BARKEEP49

[Lathum]

intersting stuff CR.

[Danny]

Seems pretty clear cut, those clues seem to clearly add up to Barkeep

Vote Barkeep49

Obviously, BK will probably counter reveal at this point, but Chief Rum's play does not seem wolfish to me. The wolves clearly would have gone after him after his half reveal before the lynch and the fact that there was a no kill after what he posted earlier strengthens his argument.

[Danny]

Vote Barkeep49

Fixed, ugg

[Barkeep49]

Let's look at this a different way. Let's think, why would CR admit he had a role, completely with-out need? All he needed to do was cast his vote on HL, as we expected him to do, and the vote is over. No need to state you have a role. CR has been setting me up all night long (stating I had a reason for my vote, when I had stated in the thread it was a D1 "reason"). It's well played by him, but still a play.

Vote CR

[hoopsguy]

BK, can you come up with a scenario where Chief is a villager making a play at you?

If not, I'm pretty willing to take the 1:1 trade on Days 2/3. I can't come up with an end-game scenario at this point.

If we are taking the 1:1 trade, why wouldn't we follow his reveal, rather than listening to your "It wasn't me" response? Is the loss of you (as a villager, by your account) anything that is going to cripple our further efforts? Indirectly, you would be getting us a wolf on the following day, so that is a good result.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

BK, can you come up with a scenario where Chief is a villager making a play at you?

If not, I'm pretty willing to take the 1:1 trade on Days 2/3. I can't come up with an end-game scenario at this point.

If we are taking the 1:1 trade, why wouldn't we follow his reveal, rather than listening to your "It wasn't me" response? Is the loss of you (as a villager, by your account) anything that is going to cripple our further efforts? Indirectly, you would be getting us a wolf on the following day, so that is a good result.

Oh I'm sorry. I thought it was clear. I'm not just a villager, I am Leo. I can't see CR making this play at me as a villager, no, but I don't have to, cause I know he's a bad guy. I will point out that at no point have I claimed to be a villager. I purposefully didn't say this in my check in post

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

It always makes me insecure to not receive a PM at the start of a game.

Of course I wasn't insecure because I had received a PM. If you lynch me today it's a 2:1, because I presume CR based on his play is the Source so if you lynch me today you lose the BG, plus another unknown villager tomorrow fixing the mistake. I don't believe CR has made this same claim, so you're looking at at a 1:1 by lynching him first, if I'm bad (which of course I'm not).

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Oh I'm sorry. I thought it was clear. I'm not just a villager, I am Leo. I can't see CR making this play at me as a villager, no, but I don't have to, cause I know he's a bad guy.

I know this because his attack on me failed last night.

I will point out that at no point have I claimed to be a villager. I purposefully didn't say this in my check in post

I of course mean vanilla villager. I tried to leave this bread crumb in case of a situation just like this.

[Chief Rum]

Nice spin. No doubt left for me now, with the direct counter reveal, instead of saying something otherwise. The only role I know you're not, of course, is the Leo. Which confirms that my guesswork on the clues are dead on. Yippee!

Personally, if I were you, caught out in this situation, I think I would have revealed as something else, a lesser role unlikely to be in the game, like a Grandmother, or something like that. Or I would have devised a second target the clues could fit.

BTW, thanks, really. That's quite a compliment you paid me. I mean, questioning your first, odd jump out vote the way I did, then setting up the fake reveal with a rushed arrival at deadline, while barely saving myself. Then setting up a conspiratorial night one play, giving up my "wolf attack" for that night and the possibility of killing a villager, just so I could fake reveal at the very start of Day Two that I am one of the most powerful villager roles, with an elaborate set up of clues that point to you. All this, all of it, for a 1:1 trade that would result when I am discovered to be a wolf while you're a good guy.

I mean, to even think I could be so forward thinking and bold as a wolf, that is impressive, quite the feat for anyone to attempt. So thanks for thinking of me in that light.

Alas, of course, it is bull. I am not that good--no one is--nor would I make a 1:1 trade as a wolf at the veritable start of the game, even a smaller game like this one. Really, that second part should be the clincher for anyone on the fence. This just isn't a play a wolf would make at this point.

[PackerFanatic]

VOTE BARKEEP49

CR's reasons are to be pretty cut and dry to me.

[EagleFan]

Fear turns to rage which turns to fear and confusion after an innocent (though it was an innocent cannibal) had been killed by a crowd pumped up with terror induced blood lust the previous evening.

The tension has affected everyone differently. Some keep entirely to themselves, hoping and praying that they may be able to leave the building and return to their homes and families. Others have turned outward to others, hoping to find someone who can make sense of what is happening. Others have turned to the bottle, this is a night club after all.

The current silence is broken as a drunk stumbles into the middle of the room. Mumbling incoherrently. "Why, how... why me?" A scream comes from the crowd as a large knife flies through the air and impales the drunk. As he stumbles to the ground dropping the bottle of whiskey clenched in his hand his face becomes clear. This is the same man who was serving you drinks just one day earlier before the terror began.

A search of him reveals 24 dollars in cash, a bus token and of course the knife which is now lodged in him.

[Barkeep49]

CR basically you're saying I've messed up by telling the truth. "No no BK when you're being falsely accused of being a wolf after I attack you don't tell the truth. Lie. Lie viciously." C'mon.

PF: Why are his reasons any more cut and dry then mine? I have offered:
1. A hint of my role before it was necessary
2. Evidence of suspicious play (why does CR role reveal at all)?

CR do you have an answer for that? Why reveal at all yesterday at deadline when the vote is 100% in your hands?

[Barkeep49]

DOLA: The village so rarely goes wrong with these decisions. It'll be very disappointing to lose one when I have such an important role.

[PackerFanatic]

I don't think anyone is ever coming to this club again...

[EagleFan]

To clear up any confusion I have included a link to the post which mentions the ruls changed which were made due to the number of players being smaller than the game was originally designed for. The link is in post 3, below the player list and above the story board.

[Chubby]

pretty straight forward right now in my eyes...

Vote barkeep

[Lathum]

I really dont see what CR has to gain from making this play unless he new he was spotted, and realisticly how often does that happen?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I really dont see what CR has to gain from making this play unless he new he was spotted, and realisticly how often does that happen?

It's clear from my writeup that we saw each other. So he makes the play because he knows he's been spotted. For once CR's schedule works to his advantage.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so lets play this out.
1.) Chief makes a very obvious hint that he has a role (under pressure), Barkeep makes a very subtle hint that he has a role (under no pressure)
2.) Wolf team picks up on the hint, attacks roled player who turns out to be Leo
3.) First player to come out says that he had clues to discern in order to identify attacker, second player to come out says that he saw his attacker

Any dispute over these details?

[Barkeep49]

I don't dispute that characterization.

[Danny]

Off to work, but Chief's version with the clues does seem to be pretty in line with the atmosphere created by Eaglefan. I'll be home after work to see if there is anything new.

[jeheinz72]

This is perplexing indeed. I need to re-read this, but it's far from cut and dry to me.

I'm going to re-read the whole thread with this new info in the next hour and I'll make my decision. Either way, at least we've got a tradeoff secured.

[hoopsguy]

The piece for me that is kind of "up for grabs" is whether EagleFan would create a set of clues (one obvious - bartender, one less obvious - letters) for Chief Rum to sift through, rather than just saying "you saw your attacker".

I think this is EF's first game as moderator. I did not get a PM from him. So about all I have to go on is the stuff in the thread. While there is a fair amount of flavor, I'm not convinced that he would play "riddle me this" with the players as part of the night actions.

[jeheinz72]

I'm of the same mind hoops. There are some definite things that don't jive with me on both sides.

The fact that the clue would be that obvious is one of them. Frankly upon my first read of it, my thoughts were it was too easy. I mean it's like a clue being that he was killed by some guy dressed up as a ketchup bottle.

Maybe it's on the level (and I don't mean to slight EF's modding at all) but at the very least, it has me doubting it's validity.

I still haven't gone after a complete re-read though...

[Chubby]

My vote is by no means set in stone but I want to see how this plays out before deciding to move or not

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

FWIW, I would suggest that the seer scans Chief Rum in order to see:
1.) If he is a wolf (was rare for him to get early heat in a game)
2.) If there was any value to the vote today
3.) If not, were there any votes that appeared to be "wolf fitting in"

Obviously the seer can scan whoever the heck they please, but this would be my play.

It would be interesting to hear if the seer actually did this, since this would greatly impact today's vote.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

It would be interesting to hear if the seer actually did this, since this would greatly impact today's vote.

I would NOT be interested in the seer doing this even though it could vindicate me. It's going to be bad enough losing the BG. Let's not lose the seer in the process.

[The Jackal]

Right now I'm leaning heavily towards CR's version of the story, though the clues leading to BK were very obvious, not sure if they were too obvious. Plenty of time to vote so I'll see what gets flushed out.

[Lathum]

Either way it appears it is a 1-1 trade off so why not vote the guy who came out first?

[EagleFan]

A scream, a call for help. Everyone hears it, no one can place where. A louder scream "NOOOOOOO!!!!!". An explosion. A flash of light and the club is filled with smoke. People are dazed.

When everything calms down a figure is seen staggering into the main room through the smoke. It's a woman, she seems shaken. It's the waitress from the club and it is quite obvious that she has seen something.

She tries to speak but her terror has her mind racnig and her thoughts scrambled. "I was dragged into the room...attacked...he...saved me...somehow...it was awful."

She faints from the excitement. You find her a safe and comfortable place to lie down to try to recover from what has happened.

[jeheinz72]

It's tough. Something just didn't sit right with me regarding the whole CR sequence from 10 minutes to deadline to his reveal. It seemed...contrived.

I could have fog in my eyes, but my gut said CR was the right move Day One, and I think it is again.

He had *zero* reason to reveal he was roled in that situation. Everyone and their mom knew if he was able to get on, he'd vote HL out of self-defense and that's that. No one would've faulted him for it. But I think CR, being the good player that he is, knew that even still there would be suspicion (aka a scan ala hoops' subsequent post) and so he parlays this into outing Leo with a fake reveal and a likely trade off. The clues seem too obvious to me and it takes him like an hour to decide to reveal them but he "solves" the D-I riddle in 3 minutes.

BK on the other hand, gets a slight tick up from me for being the 1st voter and voting villager. I'm less inclined to think that if a wolf wanted to get a vote done that he does it first and does it meekly on a villager (meekly as in no substance behind it at all). Bk seemed to want to avoid a tie, which can be taken both ways (most of us dislike no lynch when we're villagers and a wolf wouldn't want one as well if we were villager-villager, but would they post overtly about it?)

In the end, I'll take my chances, knowing this is one of those trust/distrust building votes that will be looked at later.

Vote Chief Rum

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Either way it appears it is a 1-1 trade off so why not vote the guy who came out first?

this should say with, not for. Meaning why not vote BK.

[EagleFan]

As of post 240:

Barkeep49 4 - Chief Rum (210), Danny (213), PackerFanatic (219), Chubby (225)
Chief Rum 2 - Barkeep49 (214), jeheinz72 (240)

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

this should say with, not for. Meaning why not vote BK.

I dunno, I just think CR's events don't ring true.

I mean would you reveal in that situation Lathum (the veiled one 10 min to deadline with him holding all the cards)

[hoopsguy]

I think I'm going to play a hunch on this one, given that we are looking 1:1 trade. Normal route is to go with the guy who reveals first, but in this case I will instead

VOTE CHIEF RUM

[Lathum]

Vote CR


I am tying it on purpose for 2 reasons.

1. If it stays tied I am not sure thats a bad thing since either CR or BK will be the likely night kill target, then we sort it out tomorrow instead of possibly killing a villager today then having another villager killed tonight, making it a potential 2-1.

2. I know I am good, so I am curious to see who breaks the tie and why.

[RendeR]

VOTE Chief RUM

Because thats where I voted yesterday and I don't see a real valid reason to change yet. Either way the vote goes we learn somethng and someone has to defend themselves overnight, we then sort out the other person tomorrow if they're still breathing.

[The Jackal]

I have the last vote? Shoot.

[The Jackal]

I'm sort've leaning towards voting BK but thinking about whether or not I want to tie it. I have a couple of hours before I need to leave.

[PackerFanatic]

Why does everyone keep saying that CR revealed before deadline? He threatened to reveal right before deadline, but then didn't actually do until almost 3 hours later (post #192), after all was said and done. Sure, I still don't know why he felt it important to reveal so early in the game, but that is his play and I believe him.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I have the last vote? Shoot.

Anyone else think a tie is the way to go?