2015 NFL Wild Card Weekend

[Logan]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Not closeted. He has always talked openly about being a Cowboys fan much to the chagrin of Jersey residents.

[Kodos]

Theory presence of Suh actually made me root for the Cowboys yesterday. Glad to see Romo get a playoff win.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Head ref Pete Morelli was instructed to make sure the Cowboys win, that's what happened. Cowboys-Packers is a marquee matchup and that's what the NFL wanted. The LB made contact with the Detroit receiver and didn't even look back for the ball. That's PI and picking up that flag was laughable.

I guess he also told the Lions D to hold every receiver attempting to run a route as well. Oh, and that punt was silly, shoulda just tried a hail mary and lived with the pick.

Clearly they were told on the field to change a call so they could change the outcome. It's the only plausible scenario other than human error and bad, undisciplined defense.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Welcome to the NFL.. it's why I watch less and less. College is so much more enjoyable to me.

It's apparent that the refs have a major factor in deciding NFL football games more so than they ever have.

You can pretty much call offensive holding on every play and I don't think I've ever seen a ref call PI and then go and pick up his flag. Even the post game crew said the same thing. Either you saw PI and made the call and threw your flag, or you didn't and the flag stays in your pocket.

Unfortunately I agree with this statement. And the college game is inching that way too, especially with a team like Baylor, who all they want do is throw deep for the 80 yard bomb or the 15-yard PI penalty. The rules are too subjective, too ticky-tack, and are slowly ruining the "integrity" of the game.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Welcome to the NFL.. it's why I watch less and less. College is so much more enjoyable to me.

It's apparent that the refs have a major factor in deciding NFL football games more so than they ever have.

You can pretty much call offensive holding on every play and I don't think I've ever seen a ref call PI and then go and pick up his flag. Even the post game crew said the same thing. Either you saw PI and made the call and threw your flag, or you didn't and the flag stays in your pocket.

If the game was in Detroit, would he have picked up his flag?

Ah yes, it sure is a good thing refs aren't the deciding factor in college football.





Baylor Beats TCU, With A Little Help From The Officials

[Arles]

Much like I have a higher standard for pro players than college players, the bar is a little higher for NFL refs than college. There are so many college teams and refs needed, you are bound to get a bad group from time to time (just check the Pac-12). The NFL has ref 17 teams with the cream of the crop in the playoffs (top 4 refs). I don't think it's unreasonable to expect competent performances from the top 4 refs in the NFL. It's like comparing the QB play of Rodgers or Manning to an average QB in the Big Ten.

[whomario]

Yet even Rodgers and Manning have absolute stinkers every once in a while and then you consider that a QB can make 10 horrible throws and still have a good game... (realizing that this was not the intent of your analogy ...)

So the same rigged NFL allows a key Lions player to play despite a possibility to suspend him, they now told the Officials to make sure the Cowboys win ? Taking that sort of risk when the possible gain is at best minimal in the grand scheme of things (finances) ?

[Arles]

I don't think there is any conspiracy by the NFL to help the Cowboys in yesterday's game. I just think there's a reluctance to go against home teams in a big playoff game on 50/50 calls. In other words, if the exact play that happened to Brandon Pettigrew happens to Jason Witten, it's a guarantee PI call. That's also the reason I don't think they called the personal foul on Dez for running out and arguing the call without a helmet. If Calvin Johnson runs out after the reversal and argues without a helmet, that's a guaranteed personal foul.

You would think the top 4-5 refs teams in the NFL would have the courage to make 50-50 calls against the home team, but some just don't have it.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by JAG

Also told the Lions to punt it 10 yards rather than go for it on 4th and 1 in Dallas territory.

The refs sucked that game for calls on both sides.

Actually the Lions were about to go for it on 4th & 1 when they did not get the snap off and were backed up to 4th & 6. Then shanked a 10 yd punt to give Dallas the ball close to midfield.

Neither one of those things are being talked about nearly as much as the PI non-call and the conspiracy of putting Dallas over. Personally I'd rather see the NFL get rid of penalties that are not reasonable to catch in realtime 99% of the time such as PI and holding unless they want to add 2 more refs per game just to focus on those penalties (and to that I'd argue it will become a much less fun game to watch).

Yes the PI call was a bad non-call based on the current state of NFL PI rules but it didn't mean the Lions had to crap the bed either.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Actually the Lions were about to go for it on 4th & 1 when they did not get the snap off and were backed up to 4th & 6. Then shanked a 10 yd punt to give Dallas the ball close to midfield.

Neither one of those things are being talked about nearly as much as the PI non-call and the conspiracy of putting Dallas over. Personally I'd rather see the NFL get rid of penalties that are not reasonable to catch in realtime 99% of the time such as PI and holding unless they want to add 2 more refs per game just to focus on those penalties (and to that I'd argue it will become a much less fun game to watch).

Yes the PI call was a bad non-call based on the current state of NFL PI rules but it didn't mean the Lions had to crap the bed either.

It wasn't a case of the Lions not getting the snap off on that 4th & 1. They tried to do that hard count/get the defense to jump thing. It didn't work, they took the delay of game penalty, and then decided to punt it. They were never going to run that play.

The PI non-call was a horrible. It should have been a penalty. It totally screwed the Lions. That said, the Lions should have been able to muster more than 6 points after the first two drives. They had many opportunities to win the game, but their offense sputtered and just couldn't get going after some early success. It was that way all year.

The Lions could have and should have overcome that horrible non-call, but they really just aren't good enough.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Ah yes, it sure is a good thing refs aren't the deciding factor in college football.

I never said there are not games where they haven't played a major factor in deciding a college game.. but watching college football vs NFL football and it's nowhere close. These are also supposed to be PROFESSIONAL level referees.

Also.. when is a player allowed to come on to the field to argue with a referee? Should have been 15 yard penalty - which would have been a Lions first down.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by whomario

So the same rigged NFL allows a key Lions player to play despite a possibility to suspend him, they now told the Officials to make sure the Cowboys win ? Taking that sort of risk when the possible gain is at best minimal in the grand scheme of things (finances) ?

I wouldn't put anything past the NFL anymore. Not that I think it was a conspiracy.. but nobody is talking anything but how that was a mistake non-call as well as Dez Bryant coming onto the field to argue with the refs, which should have been a 15 yard misconduct penalty.

It just ruins the game for me.

[miked]

Put me in the camp of not seeing why it was flagged in the first place. The ball was not thrown well, the defender was not looking but the ball hit him before or at the same time contact was made. Pettigrew was not coming back to the ball either. It really seems like a case can be made for not calling it as well (the Bryant thing is inexplicable). We are always complaining how every touch draws a penalty and the game protects the WR/QB too much. On the DET plays, the LB clearly grabbed the DAL RB by the pants and pulled him down on the screen, and I don't think the DB ever let go of Cole Beasley's jersey the entire route.

I just don't see how a questionable call can ruin people's faith in the game, but the dumb decisions of a coach (the 4th and 1 sequence was silly, go for it or punt), the worst punt in postseason history (embellished, but it was terrible), and the inability to stop the opponent are ignored.

[lungs]

I thought it was a great non-call. And the reason Dez Bryant didn't get a penalty is because he is very persuasive.

[EagleFan]

That was text book interference. If they got together and discussed it and then said no penalty it would have been a bad pickup of a flag. However, announcing the call and waving the teams/chains down and then going back to pick it up is negligent. Bryant deserved fifteen yards for what he did. Allowing that is poor control of the game.

I am guessing that Jerry Jones uses that app to automatically transfer money... . That play can be the next commercial for it instead of the woman buying the big hat.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I wouldn't put anything past the NFL anymore. Not that I think it was a conspiracy.. but nobody is talking anything but how that was a mistake non-call as well as Dez Bryant coming onto the field to argue with the refs, which should have been a 15 yard misconduct penalty.

It just ruins the game for me.

How do you enjoy sports? There are bad calls / missed calls in every game where you have an imperfect human interpreting imperfect rules, especially unwritten rules like, "Don't call too many penalties in the playoffs". At this point in my life, I don't often get worked up about it. If I have a team lose due to a bad call, I wish they had played better so it wouldn't have mattered.

[Kodos]

Yep. It definitely should have been called PI.

[cartman]

This will likely be the end of the 'all-star' officiating crews for playoff games. Not sure why they decided to break up officials and have guys that are not familiar with each other work important games.

[Thomkal]

Article on why it might have been the right call in Dallas game...


247Sports

[whomario]

Originally Posted by cartman

This will likely be the end of the 'all-star' officiating crews for playoff games. Not sure why they decided to break up officials and have guys that are not familiar with each other work important games.

That is a real issue btw, this is a decision that makes absolutely no sense.

Also, if you have something like the coaches challenge, it should be eligible to be used on every decision.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JAG

How do you enjoy sports? There are bad calls / missed calls in every game where you have an imperfect human interpreting imperfect rules, especially unwritten rules like, "Don't call too many penalties in the playoffs". At this point in my life, I don't often get worked up about it. If I have a team lose due to a bad call, I wish they had played better so it wouldn't have mattered.

+1

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Article on why it might have been the right call in Dallas game...


247Sports

Doesnt change the fact Bryant should have been given a penalty

[Logan]

Dean Blandino -- Holding call missed vs. Dallas Cowboys LB Anthony Hitchens - ESPN Dallas

[larrymcg421]

If the refs were trying to fix this game for the Cowboys, then they were doing a piss poor job of it. There were a few calls missed in the first half that went against the Cowboys, including a clear running into the kicker. Why would they wait to fix the game at a moment when their actions might not have mattered at all?

[BillJasper]

I believe it was pass interference on Hitchens.
I believe it was defensive holding on Hitchens.
I believe it was unsportsmanlike conduct on Bryant.

But when that play happened, the Lions still lead the game 20-17. The refs didn't make Caldwell punt on 4th-and-1. The refs didn't make the Detroit punter shank the kick. The refs didn't make Detroit allow Dallas to push them down the field for the game winning TD.

The call sucked. But Detroit still could've won the game.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

If the refs were trying to fix this game for the Cowboys, then they were doing a piss poor job of it. There were a few calls missed in the first half that went against the Cowboys, including a clear running into the kicker. Why would they wait to fix the game at a moment when their actions might not have mattered at all?

That running into the kicker penalty would have been 5 yards if called. It still would have been 4th down and a bunch.

There was no conspiracy. That's all poppycock. The calls definitely went Dallas' way. It happens. Referees are human. They make mistakes. Some are larger than others. The horrible PI non-call was huge. It could have changed the outcome of the game. It hurt the Lions, but they still had chances to overcome.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I believe it was pass interference on Hitchens.
I believe it was defensive holding on Hitchens.
I believe it was unsportsmanlike conduct on Bryant.

But when that play happened, the Lions still lead the game 20-17. The refs didn't make Caldwell punt on 4th-and-1. The refs didn't make the Detroit punter shank the kick. The refs didn't make Detroit allow Dallas to push them down the field for the game winning TD.

The call sucked. But Detroit still could've won the game.

I think it's silly to ignore the effect of either situation on the outcome of the game. The Lions should have done enough to win on their own, regardless of the call's outcome. But it is absolutely clear that the awful decision making on the part of the officiating crew contributed significantly to the Lions' losing.

It's not an either/or situation. Both the Lions and the refs should be taken to task for it.

[Chief Rum]

Oh yeah, and any of you guys thinking conspiracy, y'all are nuts.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think it's silly to ignore the effect of either situation on the outcome of the game. The Lions should have done enough to win on their own, regardless of the call's outcome. But it is absolutely clear that the awful decision making on the part of the officiating crew contributed significantly to the Lions' losing.

It's not an either/or situation. Both the Lions and the refs should be taken to task for it.

It all comes down to Dallas 4th and 6 play in Detroit territory. If Detroit stops them they win the game. Or the 3rd and Goal down, where they could've held Dallas to a FG and possibly forced OT. Then they had the ball with 2+ minutes left, yeah they needed a TD, but Stafford fumbles and it is recovered by Dallas then fumbled back to Detroit. Then Stafford gets sacked on the final 4th down play.

Even after a bad break, Detroit had their opportunities and choked on them.

[Arles]

Just so I understand what is kosher. It's OK to complain about your QB when they throw a late pick on a bad decision. But, it's not OK to complain when the refs blow each of 3 fairly obvious calls late in the game because of bad decision making?

Unless the bad play/call happens in the final minute, most can be overcome... That doesn't seem like much of a justification. But, I still don't have an issue with Lions (or just NFL fans) complaining about how the refs handled that play and saying it played a big part in their team losing. That's part of the game as much as a RB fumbling or a QB throwing a pick.

If the ref doesn't call both the defensive holds against Detroit on that final drive (one on 2nd and one on 3rd), chances are Dallas doesn't win and it goes OT (would have been 4th down and FG try on the latter).

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Arles

Just so I understand what is kosher. It's OK to complain about your QB when they throw a late pick on a bad decision. But, it's not OK to complain when the refs blow each of 3 fairly obvious calls late in the game because of bad decision making?

Sure you can be upset about it. But there's no evidence that Detroit would've done anything more with the ball than ran a couple of minutes off of the clock and maybe kick a FG. Especially with a coach like Caldwell whose fairly conservative.

As we progress through the game, we see certain spots where if Detroit executes on defense, they win the game. The refs didn't make Detroit give up a ten yard pass on 4th and 6. They didn't make Detroit lose containment on Romo on 3rd and Goal and give up a TD pass in crunch time.

Then they get the ball back with 2+ minutes left and Stafford does nothing with it. I think Stafford's 0-18 record against .500+ teams on the road says more about the game than a blown call.

[tarcone]

One thing I have learned is never leave the results of a game in the refs hands.
Someone always gets screwed.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I believe it was pass interference on Hitchens.
I believe it was defensive holding on Hitchens.
I believe it was unsportsmanlike conduct on Bryant.

But when that play happened, the Lions still lead the game 20-17. The refs didn't make Caldwell punt on 4th-and-1. The refs didn't make the Detroit punter shank the kick. The refs didn't make Detroit allow Dallas to push them down the field for the game winning TD.

The call sucked. But Detroit still could've won the game.

Do you believe it was a facemask on Pettigrew?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Do you believe it was a facemask on Pettigrew?

Not sure I remember that play?

Found it! No, I don't think it was a face mask.

[JeeberD]

Seriously?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Seriously?

Watch offensive players do that all the time. I guess it should be by the letter of the law, but I never see it called.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Watch offensive players do that all the time. I guess it should be by the letter of the law, but I never see it called.

Illegal Hands to the Face was called a ton this year. It was one of those 'points of emphasis'.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by cartman

Illegal Hands to the Face was called a ton this year. It was one of those 'points of emphasis'.

Yeah, but those calls were normally along the offensive line. There's nothing there that the skill players aren't already getting away with.

[cartman]

Here's how Christie was able to get around the NJ state ethics ban on excessive gifts. He signed an executive order allowing them from personal friends.

Christie spokesman: Luxury box tickets were gift from Cowboys owner, OK under executive order - News - NorthJersey.com

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

It all comes down to Dallas 4th and 6 play in Detroit territory. If Detroit stops them they win the game. Or the 3rd and Goal down, where they could've held Dallas to a FG and possibly forced OT. Then they had the ball with 2+ minutes left, yeah they needed a TD, but Stafford fumbles and it is recovered by Dallas then fumbled back to Detroit. Then Stafford gets sacked on the final 4th down play.

Even after a bad break, Detroit had their opportunities and choked on them.

That's the Detroit end of blame. I'm saying there's blame to spread around. The Lions' failures do not absolve the officials from their issues in this game. Both had a hand in the end result, and it's fair to call them both out.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That's the Detroit end of blame. I'm saying there's blame to spread around. The Lions' failures do not absolve the officials from their issues in this game. Both had a hand in the end result, and it's fair to call them both out.

If you lead a game for 52 minutes and completely collapse because of a bad call (no arguing the officials blew it) then you probably didn't belong in the playoffs to begin with.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by cartman

Here's how Christie was able to get around the NJ state ethics ban on excessive gifts. He signed an executive order allowing them from personal friends.

Christie spokesman: Luxury box tickets were gift from Cowboys owner, OK under executive order - News - NorthJersey.com

Letting the governor determine, by executive order, what the governor is allowed to receive in the way of gifts seems problematic.

The state of New Jersey seems okay with that, though, so...?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

If you lead a game for 52 minutes and completely collapse because of a bad call (no arguing the officials blew it) then you probably didn't belong in the playoffs to begin with.

That's not really relevant to what I am saying, but you're welcome to that one if you like.

[MizzouCowboy]

Everything is good in Dallas when the rest of the nation is pissed off.

But seriously, I thought for sure Detroit would go for it on 4th and 1 since they called the pass play on 3rd and 1. I was ecstatic that they decided to punt, because I seriously doubt the Dallas D stops them on 4th and 1. Seemed like Bell was ripping 4 or 5 yards every time he touched the ball.

I didn't think it was pass interference, but yeah, Dez should have been penalized for being on the field.

As for conspiracy theorists, really? Dallas has sucked for almost 2 decades and just out of the blue they decide to give Dallas a break. Not buying it.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

It wasn't a case of the Lions not getting the snap off on that 4th & 1. They tried to do that hard count/get the defense to jump thing. It didn't work, they took the delay of game penalty, and then decided to punt it. They were never going to run that play.

The PI non-call was a horrible. It should have been a penalty. It totally screwed the Lions. That said, the Lions should have been able to muster more than 6 points after the first two drives. They had many opportunities to win the game, but their offense sputtered and just couldn't get going after some early success. It was that way all year.

The Lions could have and should have overcome that horrible non-call, but they really just aren't good enough.

I didn't catch that then but either way I don't care what they were trying to do on 4th & 1...its 1 yard to keep the other offense off the field and the ball is on the Cowboys side of the field. Obviously they didn't expect to get a 10 yd punt out of it but still think you have to go for the win, not the "you won't win either" approach there. A q QB sneak or whatever it takes to get 1 stinkin yard. Probably should have called that on 3rd down for that matter to get a 2nd shot at the 1 yd.

I understand the feeling of losing a game you should have won. And I'm not trying to pile on but the PI non-call wasn't the difference that the Lions HAD to accept. It was the difference they CHOSE to accept by punting the ball away & not stopping the Dallas offense.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JAG

How do you enjoy sports? There are bad calls / missed calls in every game where you have an imperfect human interpreting imperfect rules, especially unwritten rules like, "Don't call too many penalties in the playoffs". At this point in my life, I don't often get worked up about it. If I have a team lose due to a bad call, I wish they had played better so it wouldn't have mattered.

Easy.. I watch college where I don't spend 2 hours extra due to all the penalties. I just don't remember a time where there are so many controversial calls in most games I've watched the past few seasons.

I would have been worked up if the Lions were the Rams.. it just stands out in this particular game.

You can always say, "well if my team would have played better" I just have a higher standard for NFL officials.. the same with NHL, MLB, etc..

I'm not the only one talking about it, it's all over the media and most agree with me with what I saw.

There are MANY times when a team does play the best they can on that day vs that team and it stinks when a blown call ruins it for me.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Easy.. I watch college where I don't spend 2 hours extra due to all the penalties. I just don't remember a time where there are so many controversial calls in most games I've watched the past few seasons.

Aren't most college football games substantially longer than NFL games now? I always plan for a college game to go three and a half or four hours. Where NFL games run about 3:15.

[NobodyHere]

These last bowl games have certainly been longer.

[cuervo72]

Hmm - I thought box score would have total time of game (like MLB has), but I can't easily find that. But the two CFB playoff games started at 5:10 and ended at 12:40, with very little time between them. The games on Sunday kicked off at 1:05 and the Lions' loss was declared (in the thread anyway, game may have gone longer) at 7:48. That was with a 4:40 start on the second game which I think allowed for a decent pad (games on different networks).

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Aren't most college football games substantially longer than NFL games now? I always plan for a college game to go three and a half or four hours. Where NFL games run about 3:15.

They can be I guess since the clock stops on 1st downs.

I just find when I watch a Rams game, every good play I'm looking for the flag graphic.