2014 NFL Regular Season, Week 4

[Abe Sargent]

ANOTHER pickby the Chiefs. This is just fun time now!

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

+1

Also, she initially only asked for her hospital bills to be covered.

Hot Coffee pretty much tears down every argument for tort reform.

[BishopMVP]

Kneeling is an automatic 15 yards for excessive celebration? Then I assume they'll make Christians praying after a score a penalty too?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Best part of that into return was after the DB slid into the endzone, the official looking for instruction elsewhere on whether he should throw flag on the celebration.

[Abe Sargent]

If the Chiefs hang 50 on the Pats tonight I'll get a boner so hard and big that I'll be able to lick it myself.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

If the Chiefs hang 50 on the Pats tonight I'll get a boner so hard and big that I'll be able to lick it myself.

Eww...

[dubb93]

QB controversy in New England?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

If the Chiefs hang 50 on the Pats tonight I'll get a boner so hard and big that I'll be able to lick it myself.

No pics plz k thx

[Julio Riddols]

Never go full autofellatio.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

You should watch the documentary Hot Coffee. It dispels the popular non-sense that surrounds that particular case. It actually shows the injuries that can come from coffee kept at between 180 and 190 degrees and the fact that McDonald's had buried seven hundred other complaints about how hot their coffee was kept.

It is on Netflix.

I know the case. It hasn't changed the temperature of coffee at all. Other similar lawsuits have failed. The jury awarded millions to someone who spilled hot coffee on herself (it was reduced on appeal, and McDonald's ended up settling for about $600k). Which is terrible and unfortunate, but not the fault of the restaurant.

There's now a warning on the cup. But if that were the problem, most people above a certain age could sue anyway, because it's hard to read that tiny writing.

Sometimes bad things happen because we're careless. I used this example because it's one so many people have heard about.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

The officials are calling the game they way they are being trained and graded on. I've worked for different supervisiors and had to adjust what I called based upon their interpretations. It's coming from the top down...not bottom up.

I'll defer to you obviously. Curious when those standards are communicated?

It's just frustrating. Not expecting perfection, but would like consistency.

Originally Posted by Dutch

From my understanding the referee was right in throwing the flag when Bell taunted and right when he didn't throw a flag in this video.

Guess I don't understand this. Excessive celebration is taunting. Physically stopping a celebration is not?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Guess I don't understand this. Excessive celebration is taunting. Physically stopping a celebration is not?

Memorable Moments: Teague Knocks Owens Off Star

Justified.

(And I say this as an *Eagles* fan. )

[cartman]

Sorry, Abe. You were only able to reach 82% turgidity.

[Matthean]

The next time announcers go free form in a blowout, I'll remember this thread where a documentary was discussed if people start complain about what the announcers did.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Kneeling is an automatic 15 yards for excessive celebration? Then I assume they'll make Christians praying after a score a penalty too?

Aactually Husain Abdullah is a devout Muslim, including taking off the 2012-13 football season to pilgrimage to Mecca. Wonder if it was some sort of prayer thing, and if anything comes out of it.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by cartman

Sorry, Abe. You were only able to reach 82% turgidity.

There's always the Bengals next week...

[NobodyHere]

And Dennis Allen gets sacked.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Aactually Husain Abdullah is a devout Muslim, including taking off the 2012-13 football season to pilgrimage to Mecca. Wonder if it was some sort of prayer thing, and if anything comes out of it.

It was definitely a Muslim prayer thing... Which is why I drew the connection to Christian players who pray or make a religious symbol after scoring.

[NobodyHere]

Some stuff can only happen to the Lions

Joseph Fauria Says He Hurt Himself Trying To Stop His Puppy From Peeing

[Julio Riddols]

I've been wondering why they're using Fauria so damn much when they have Ebron. Is Ebron just not that good?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Guess I don't understand this. Excessive celebration is taunting. Physically stopping a celebration is not?

I didn't see the Bell taunting, so you tell me if it met the intent of the taunting penalty.

[Dutch]

Oh, and to cap off the week, Dennis Allen was fired this morning.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Best part of that into return was after the DB slid into the endzone, the official looking for instruction elsewhere on whether he should throw flag on the celebration.

I admit I didn't see the play so I can't comment on the particular one you are talking about. But I can relate it to a situation that I've had.

There has been a crackdown in allowing players to dive (celebatory) into the endzone. Well the official at the goalline is so focused on the goalline and pylon that he doesn't know if the player who dove actually was threatened and needed to dive or just did it to show boat. That's where he will look back and get help from the trailing official.

I'm not saying the play was correctly or incorrectly called, I'm just explaining the mechanic on the play.

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I'll defer to you obviously. Curious when those standards are communicated?

Most of them get communicated down at the Clinic before the season starts. But just like everything in life and football it evolves throughout the season. Each crew has access to training tapes the NFL makes each week to talk about good and bad calls. The teams also have access to these so they can adjust.

I know it sounds like I am making excuses but it's not as black and white and you guys think. This is all judgement...each official has a judgement call...the TA (grader) at the game has his own judgement...and the head of officials has his own judgement. You try as hard as possible to get in sync, but it doesn't always happen.

For example, I make a holding call which my TA downgrades me but then later I see on the training tape that my supervisior thinks it was good. Well guess what, my grade wasn't changed even though my supervisior said it was a correct call. So then I'm stuck in a quandry the next game I have that TA, do I call it the way he sees it so I don't get downgraded or do I do what my supervisiors says? Most would say (and I agree) that you do what your supervisior says...but you have to hope your supervisior remembers that your downgrade he actually agreed with when the end of the season grades come out.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I didn't see the Bell taunting, so you tell me if it met the intent of the taunting penalty.

Being he has done the same thing every game, including multiple times this game, and called once, I'll say no. But I get my opinion is biased.

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I admit I didn't see the play so I can't comment on the particular one you are talking about. But I can relate it to a situation that I've had.

There has been a crackdown in allowing players to dive (celebatory) into the endzone. Well the official at the goalline is so focused on the goalline and pylon that he doesn't know if the player who dove actually was threatened and needed to dive or just did it to show boat. That's where he will look back and get help from the trailing official.

I'm not saying the play was correctly or incorrectly called, I'm just explaining the mechanic on the play.



Most of them get communicated down at the Clinic before the season starts. But just like everything in life and football it evolves throughout the season. Each crew has access to training tapes the NFL makes each week to talk about good and bad calls. The teams also have access to these so they can adjust.

I know it sounds like I am making excuses but it's not as black and white and you guys think. This is all judgement...each official has a judgement call...the TA (grader) at the game has his own judgement...and the head of officials has his own judgement. You try as hard as possible to get in sync, but it doesn't always happen.

For example, I make a holding call which my TA downgrades me but then later I see on the training tape that my supervisior thinks it was good. Well guess what, my grade wasn't changed even though my supervisior said it was a correct call. So then I'm stuck in a quandry the next game I have that TA, do I call it the way he sees it so I don't get downgraded or do I do what my supervisiors says? Most would say (and I agree) that you do what your supervisior says...but you have to hope your supervisior remembers that your downgrade he actually agreed with when the end of the season grades come out.

Sounds like a flawed system.

And back to my original comment, if these are not being communicated in game/ halftime, makes it all the more frustrating. If a call is made in the 1st quarter, like the first time Bell signals first down, but not the next 4 times he does it, hard to grasp what is correct.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

It actually shows the injuries that can come from coffee kept at between 180 and 190 degrees

Which is the same temperature Keurig recommends you brew your coffee at home at. McDonald's still serves it at that temperature today (when they don't they get complaints, because a lot of people take their coffee to go). The only difference is that now they have to warn people that coffee is, in fact, hot.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

Which is the same temperature Keurig recommends you brew your coffee at home at. McDonald's still serves it at that temperature today (when they don't they get complaints, because a lot of people take their coffee to go). The only difference is that now they have to warn people that coffee is, in fact, hot.

No. There was an out of court settlement that resolved the litigation, so there was no requirements placed on McDonalds. The warning of coffee being hot was already on the cup prior to the litigation - the jury ruled that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. In addition the initial punitive damages awarded was the actual value of McDonald's revenues on coffee sales for 2 days (which was reduced by the judge to 3 times the compensatory damages). You want punitive damages to be very high - that's the point, it's to punish the company for an egregious act, in this case ignoring hundreds of complaints and internal concerns.

[JPhillips]

And McDonalds did change the cup and lid to reduce the potential for spillage.

[Thomkal]

Say Goodbye to the NFL Blackout rule:

FCC Ends NFL Blackout Rule: Latest Details, Comments and Reaction | Bleacher Report

[BishopMVP]

NFL has admitted Abdullah should not have been flagged for going to his knees in prayer (although there is some question whether he slid too far into it?). Sorry, can't link to stuff on my phone.

[Thomkal]

NFL says Abdullah shouldn't have been penalized:

NFL says Husain Abdullah of Kansas City Chiefs shouldn't have been penalized for praying in celebration - ESPN

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

NFL has admitted Abdullah should not have been flagged for going to his knees in prayer (although there is some question whether he slid too far into it?). Sorry, can't link to stuff on my phone.

Slid too far into it? Islamic prayer (well part of it) involves putting your head all the way to the ground.

[Kodos]

FCC unanimously votes to eliminate sports blackout rules | The Verge

[BillJasper]

Raiders settle on Tony Sparano as interim head coach | ProFootballTalk

Funny. The Dolphins have made Sparano a head coach twice!

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Being he has done the same thing every game, including multiple times this game, and called once, I'll say no. But I get my opinion is biased.

Hehe, thanks to NFL Replays, I just watched the first quarter. On the play in question, he was tackled pretty hard to the ground by #50 (backup LB to the hurt Mason Foster)...he got up and shoved #50, did his 1st down sign, and then jumped right back into #50's face with the ref next to both of them. Not a big deal and I could see it going either way, but we've seen this a million times by now, and you have to assume the ref heard something that Bell said and there is no reason to think it was a bad decision on the part of the ref. So yes, you are correct, you were being a little biased.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

You should watch the documentary Hot Coffee. It dispels the popular non-sense that surrounds that particular case. It actually shows the injuries that can come from coffee kept at between 180 and 190 degrees and the fact that McDonald's had buried seven hundred other complaints about how hot their coffee was kept.

It is on Netflix.

If you are going to keep hot coffee between your legs, let Darwinism take over...

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

If you are going to keep hot coffee between your legs, let Darwinism take over...

Yep...and if anybody thinks that McDonalds hides information because they are inherently evil and not trying to defend themselves from the wolves that would sue over things like hot coffee looking for big dollars are fooling themselves. It's all about the benjamins.

[ISiddiqui]

One of the reasons we need to sue over stuff like this. It's the only way to keep the bastards in line.

[Buccaneer]

Or to justify the hordes of lawyers.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

No. There was an out of court settlement that resolved the litigation, so there was no requirements placed on McDonalds. The warning of coffee being hot was already on the cup prior to the litigation - the jury ruled that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. In addition the initial punitive damages awarded was the actual value of McDonald's revenues on coffee sales for 2 days (which was reduced by the judge to 3 times the compensatory damages). You want punitive damages to be very high - that's the point, it's to punish the company for an egregious act, in this case ignoring hundreds of complaints and internal concerns.

Do you really think that a warning that wasn't "large enough nor sufficient" is egregious? Are those warnings large enough now? I couldn't tell you, I didn't notice them before or after.

I think the pendulum has swung back too far in the other direction on that case now. Documentarians have political agendas too. People have been burned by coffee before that case, and people have been burned since. There were lawsuits before that case, and lawsuits since. This one case was unusual because of the verdict. Most places still serve their coffee at the same temperature McDonald's did then (despite the plaintiff's lawyer arguing that coffee should never be served at more than 140 degrees...of course that was before the coffee snob era we enjoy today.) The only way to protect everyone is to ban coffee.

[ISiddiqui]

What was egregious was hundreds upon hundreds of complaints, internal memos indicating that the coffee was too hot, and a completely ignoring of all of that. As long as they got their money, who cares about customer complaints? I mean it wasn't like anyone was going to make them not be negligent. And it wasn't like anyone was really going to successfully sue over it... until they did. And to think, all she wanted was her medical bills paid for. Then again, $600,000 isn't much at all to a company like McDonald's.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Or to justify the hordes of lawyers.

There aren't nearly enough to prevent corporations to get away with all sorts of heinous crap.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

What was egregious was hundreds upon hundreds of complaints, internal memos indicating that the coffee was too hot, and a completely ignoring of all of that. As long as they got their money, who cares about customer complaints? I mean it wasn't like anyone was going to make them not be negligent. And it wasn't like anyone was really going to successfully sue over it... until they did. And to think, all she wanted was her medical bills paid for. Then again, $600,000 isn't much at all to a company like McDonald's.

Do you have a problem with Keurig and Starbucks and all of the other companies that serve coffee (or recommend that it be brewed at home) at up to 185 degrees, which is still the standard serving temperature today? (Keurig brewers actually can go higher than that)

Your local snobby non-generically evil coffee shop also serves coffee at that temperature (they don't have the deep pockets plaintiff's attorneys seek out though) That's generally what people prefer, especially for good coffee. If a state government thinks that's too dangerous and wants to ban coffee at that temperature, that's cool, but let's not pretend McDonald's is on some island serving coffee at that temperature then or now.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by molson

Do you have a problem with Keurig and Starbucks and all of the other companies that serve coffee (or recommend that it be brewed at home) at up to 185 degrees, which is still the standard serving temperature today?

I probably wouldn't, since I like my coffee like I like my womens, smoking hot.

[Buccaneer]

But according to the lawyers, serving coffee hot and at the recommended temperature is heinous crap.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

But according to the lawyers, serving coffee hot and at the recommended temperature is heinous crap.

Something wrong when something you serve causes these types of injuries:

Jack Calvert: Stella Liebeck's injuries

If it needs to be served that hot, then perhaps McDonald's should've taken the time to investigate a better container for the product after seven hundred other people complained.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Something wrong when something you serve causes these types of injuries:

Jack Calvert: Stella Liebeck's injuries

If it needs to be served that hot, then perhaps McDonald's should've taken the time to investigate a better container for the product after seven hundred other people complained.

No, something wrong when you are an idiot and put HOT coffee between your legs.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

No, something wrong when you are an idiot and put HOT coffee between your legs.

You've never sat a drink between your legs? I use to all the time when I drove.

But that really isn't the point, the point being if you had went to court acknowledging that there was an issue and you had either already redesigned the cup or were in the process of doing it, McDonald's likely would've walked out a winner. Because they'd have shown a jury that they were proactive to the problem, instead they tried to bury it and tell everyone to fuck-off.

As far as coffee being served at 180-190 degrees, my wife is an avid coffee drinker who has spilled fresh Starbucks on herself and came away with a red mark on her arm. I don't think it's served quite that hot anymore, companies just tell you it is.

[JonInMiddleGA]

At some point I probably ought to go back through this thread & figure out how coffee ended up being an NFL issue.

So far, however, I have not reached that point.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Something wrong when something you serve causes these types of injuries:

Jack Calvert: Stella Liebeck's injuries

If it needs to be served that hot, then perhaps McDonald's should've taken the time to investigate a better container for the product after seven hundred other people complained.

I'm surprised how many people apparently didn't realize that hot liquid could burn you prior to that incident. People have burned themselves, complained, and sued over this forever, and they continue to do so today. It's definitely possible for a restaurant to be legally responsible if they actually fuck something up (though Starbucks beat one suit where the lid wasn't securely fashioned - which is the case probably 20% of the times I've been to Starbucks), but that documentary has created these myths that the coffee served that day was extraordinary hot, and that the injuries sustained there was totally unforeseeable. If you spill 185 degree coffee on your skin (whether you bought the coffee at evil McDonald's or your local store) you're going to get 2nd or 3rd degree burns if you don't get it off quickly enough. And that does happen, and those people do occasionally sue (and almost always lose, or the case is settled). There's different reasonable opinions about how to deal with this, but if you're in the coffee business, this is going to happen and you're going to get complaints, and you're going to get sued.

[BillJasper]

In refusing to grant a new trial in the case, Judge Robert Scott called McDonald's behavior “callous.” Moreover, “the day after the verdict, the news media documented that coffee at the McDonald's in Albuquerque [where Liebeck was burned] is now sold at 158 degrees. This will cause third-degree burns in about 60 seconds, rather than in two to seven seconds [so that], the margin of safety has been increased as a direct consequence of this verdict.”

Someone thought it was obviously smart to turn down the temperature.

https://www.ttla.com/index.cfm?pg=Mc...offeeCaseFacts