The Trump Presidency – 2016

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

One story claimed Trump saw and was pissed about the Lincoln Project ad on Parscale getting rich off of Trump.

Next ad I want to see:

"UPDOG is the gravest threat to our nation. And President Trump does not even know what UPDOG is."

That'll lead to a fun/awkward 90 second beginning to the next cabinet meeting.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Knowing they are targeting their ads at an audience of 1. (though many of us appreciate their brilliance) The timing of Parscale being let go, citing disappointment in the Tulsa rally attendance, is suspiciously close to the Lincoln Project ad mocking the large number of empty seats in the arena there.

May be coincidence, but pretty sure the 'ads' are finding their target.

Yeah they have certainly hit their target with their ads. I really surprised he hasn't tried some legal tricks to try to get them to stop (not that they would work) cause that's what he does.

[Ksyrup]

"You can't plan for something that hasn't happened yet" - Betsy Devos, when asked what she would do if there is an outbreak of Covid in schools. There is no plan to protect our children.

— Deacon Blues (@DeaconBlues0) July 15, 2020

Beyond the absolute joke of a response this is (the very definition of "plan" is to prepare for something before it happens), it occurs to me that this is exactly the way we've handled this crisis - the feds and many state/local officials refused to do anything until the virus came to them, or the spread got to be too much. There has been very little willingness to take any action until it's too late.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

"You can't plan for something that hasn't happened yet" - Betsy Devos, when asked what she would do if there is an outbreak of Covid in schools. There is no plan to protect our children.

— Deacon Blues (@DeaconBlues0) July 15, 2020

Beyond the absolute joke of a response this is (the very definition of "plan" is to prepare for something before it happens), it occurs to me that this is exactly the way we've handled this crisis - the feds and many state/local officials refused to do anything until the virus came to them, or the spread got to be too much. There has been very little willingness to take any action until it's too late.

And she is the top education official in the administration, not knowing that the very definition of plan is to prepare for something that could happen, LOL. So much winning.

[Ksyrup]

"It's impossible to swim in water" - Betsy Devos

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Next ad I want to see:

"UPDOG is the gravest threat to our nation. And President Trump does not even know what UPDOG is."

That'll lead to a fun/awkward 90 second beginning to the next cabinet meeting.

(menacing music playing)

(Image of virus) "There's a liberal scourge that's more deadly than COVID (echo: "COVID... ovid")"
(Image of, I dunno, a normal day in Seattle) "is more violent than Antifa ("...Antifa... tifa")"
(Image of Mr. Moneybags from Monopoly) "and has more money than George Soros ("Soros... oros")."
(White "UPDOG" on Black screen) " It's UPDOG!"
(Image of a same-sex multiracial couple holding hands, going into an abortion clinic) "Stop them ..."
(Video of atomic bomb explosion) "...before it's too late!"

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Militarized Federal Agents from a patchwork of outside agencies have begun policing Portland (in rented minivans vans) without the explicit approval of the mayor, the state, or local municipalities. This is what that looks like in practice: pic.twitter.com/losap4SsgI

— The Sparrow Project (@sparrowmedia) July 15, 2020

Good thing those secret federal soldiers throwing citizens into unmarked vans in the middle of the night didn't instead try to get those citizens to wear masks. Because that would be tyranny.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

Remember that if you grabbed a voter at random, there's about a ~45% chance that he would see that video and say that he going to vote in November for at least four more years of that.

[NobodyHere]

I'm also guessing that many voters don't like rioters,looters and arsonists taking over their city too.

[Kodos]

Taking over their city. Yep. Lots of that going on.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I'm also guessing that many voters don't like rioters,looters and arsonists taking over their city too.

Nope. Which is why ~45% of the people will say "go ahead and do whatever you want, government, as long as you tell us it is to protect us from 'rioters, looters, and arsonists.'"

I disagree with those people. You may not.

But I doubt that the proud men who wrote the charter of our liberties would have been so eager to jump into the back of the van.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

I am hearing that that video is of, at least, questionable provenance.

I'll leave it up to remind myself not to immediately re-post everything I see on social media that confirms my priors.

Sorry, guys.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

But I doubt that the proud men who wrote the charter of our liberties would have been so eager to jump into the back of the van.

Well George Washington did lead an army (bigger than any he had in the revolution) to put down the Whiskey Rebellion.

[thesloppy]

I live about a mile from where that supposedly happened and about 3 blocks away from where the protests start every night for the last two months FWIW. Nobody is taking over the city & anarchy is not setting in.

I won't claim to know enough either way, but lots of questions around that vid, people on reddit were pointing out that the person 'arrested' was never cited or cuffed and was put into a vehicle without a partition, and as a result several people are wanting to call this an undercover extraction performed as an arrest.....of course the obvious problem with that explanation is that there was absolutely no reason for such an extraction in that case. There is also supposedly video of this same vehicle later pulling into a government building, whatever you want to make of that...really the only thing that's consistent is that it was very poorly performed, one way or the other.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola:

I am hearing that that video is of, at least, questionable provenance.

I'll leave it up to remind myself not to immediately re-post everything I see on social media that confirms my priors.

Sorry, guys.

Where are you seeing this? The Mayor seemed to confirm it. I know there are a bunch of white supremacist militia groups in that region that like to play Army dressup, but these folks seem to have real gear. If it's staged, props on the effort because that gear isn't cheap.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola:

Remember that if you grabbed a voter at random, there's about a ~45% chance that he would see that video and say that he going to vote in November for at least four more years of that.

This country has always had large percentages that supported fascism and authoritarian governments. Despite all the "freedom" rhetoric.

[PilotMan]

Gotta love the new Conservative sales pitch. (from an Conservative email list I somehow made it on to)

**BREAKING: New Unemployment Numbers Are In**

The Department of Labor reported on Thursday that new unemployment claims fell to 1.3 million last week.

So I guess ONLY 1.3 million unemployment claims in a WEEK is an AMAZING thing to celebrate!

I am so glad that Obama never got to celebrate such a stunning accomplishment. The winning is simply non-stop.

[Brian Swartz]

Rather obviously it's absurd to compare the current situation to the Obama presidency. No question his unemployment claims would have been worse during a pandemic than they were without one.

[RainMaker]

President Trump has claimed he himself can control the unemployment rate. So if you take all the credit when it is good, you have to take the bad when it is bad.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Where are you seeing this?

The guy I saw that posted it took his post down, saying that he is hearing conflicting things about the video.

I figured that if it is real, then real news orgs will start coming out with stuff about it soon enough. And if it is fake/staged/etc. then it will just kind of peter out.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

if you take all the credit when it is good, you have to take the bad when it is bad.

I'm not lowering myself to using Trump's level of logic. Others can if they want, but I prefer to see things as close to how they are as possible. In this case, that means giving the president only a limited amount of credit for the economy if it's good, and a limited amount of blame if it's bad, because it's mostly out of their control regardless of who it is.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Chuck Woolery suspended from Twitter for posting false information about CV. He''ll be back in 2 and 2.

He wasn't suspended, he deleted his account. Apparently his son has it and he probably felt pretty dumb.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AlexB

So is this Goya beans thing a sign that Trump believes he will not be re-elected, has abandoned any remaining pretence of not being corrupt, and is advertising that he is available, ready & willing to milk as much as he can out the last few months of his presidency?

It's just part of the culture wars or whatever. When you can't campaign on anything good, you have to resort to that kind of stuff. Yes it is insanely dumb but that is where we are at as a country.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Rather obviously it's absurd to compare the current situation to the Obama presidency. No question his unemployment claims would have been worse during a pandemic than they were without one.

I dunno - Trump enjoyed piling thing onto the Obama economy and it's not like things were all smiles and roses when he took over in 2009.

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Gotta love the new Conservative sales pitch. (from an Conservative email list I somehow made it on to)

**BREAKING: New Unemployment Numbers Are In**

The Department of Labor reported on Thursday that new unemployment claims fell to 1.3 million last week.

So I guess ONLY 1.3 million unemployment claims in a WEEK is an AMAZING thing to celebrate!

I am so glad that Obama never got to celebrate such a stunning accomplishment. The winning is simply non-stop.

The "better" part will be when they sneak in /another/ adjustment for this month about 3 months down the road so it's more accurate but makes the October numbers look less bad by comparison.


SI

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I'm not lowering myself to using Trump's level of logic. Others can if they want, but I prefer to see things as close to how they are as possible. In this case, that means giving the president only a limited amount of credit for the economy if it's good, and a limited amount of blame if it's bad, because it's mostly out of their control regardless of who it is.

As long as the acceptable diatribe currently coming out of the mouth of the man in the Oval Office is accepted as having any value at all, as long as he can still take AND get partisan credit for the things he claims are 100% his doing, then it doesn't really matter.

I was being facetious in that statement above about Obama, but there is a reality in there, that if the tables were turned, and this was in Obama's term, and trumop was running against him, he would be pushing a never ending line of bullshit that his supporters would take hook, line and sinker.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Trump enjoyed piling thing onto the Obama economy and it's not like things were all smiles and roses when he took over in 2009.

Sure, but approached from that point of view you also have to give Trump credit for the relatively strong growth and low unemployment of most of his first term. I mean, we can't have it both ways. Either he's responsible for what happens in the economy or he isn't, regardless if 'he' is Trump, Obama, or whoever else.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Sure, but approached from that point of view you also have to give Trump credit for the relatively strong growth and low unemployment of most of his first term. I mean, we can't have it both ways. Either he's responsible for what happens in the economy or he isn't, regardless if 'he' is Trump, Obama, or whoever else.

But fortunately you're not going to lower yourself to using Trump's level of logic.

SI

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He wasn't suspended, he deleted his account. Apparently his son has it and he probably felt pretty dumb.

When it first happened, it was reported as Twitter having suspended his account for spreading false information about Covid-19. Either they suspended him and then he deleted his account, or someone jumped the gun and assumed he had been suspended. Either way... good riddance.

[Thomkal]

GA Gov doubles down on his stupidity and sues Atlanta over its mask requirements.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Who knew Chuck Woolery was such an asshole? Or that he was even still alive?

"To further clarify and add perspective, Covid-19 is real and it is here. My son tested positive for the virus, and I feel for of those suffering and especially for those who have lost loved ones," Woolery tweeted before his account disappeared.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Sure, but approached from that point of view you also have to give Trump credit for the relatively strong growth and low unemployment of most of his first term. I mean, we can't have it both ways. Either he's responsible for what happens in the economy or he isn't, regardless if 'he' is Trump, Obama, or whoever else.

What part of the economy is strong besides a stock market propped up by trillions in Fed cash?

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by sterling

But fortunately you're not going to lower yourself to using Trump's level of logic.

I'm not. What I said is a basic, fundamental matter of logical consistency. We both agree that's not something Trump does.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What part of the economy is strong besides a stock market propped up by trillions in Fed cash?

I don't follow the relevance of this, but right now I'd say the economy is generally in the crapper and we're in the early stages of what is likely to be a multi-year depression.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

GA Gov doubles down on his stupidity and sues Atlanta over its mask requirements.

Someone in the GA contingent want to give me the Cliffs Notes version of this? I read the CNN story and it wasn't clear. The Fox News one wasn't any better. Did Bottoms say "asses to you, pal, Atlanta's having masks" and the ATL is going forward with their mask order anyway? Is that why the suit?

SI

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Someone in the GA contingent want to give me the Cliffs Notes version of this? I read the CNN story and it wasn't clear. The Fox News one wasn't any better. Did Bottoms say "asses to you, pal, Atlanta's having masks" and the ATL is going forward with their mask order anyway? Is that why the suit?

SI

Bottoms has been asking Kemp to make masks mandatory in Atlanta. He's refused. So she decided to do it on her own on Wednesday. That, along with other cities having different requirements, prompted Kemp to sign the EO that basically says "we'll go to mandatory masks when I'm damn good and ready". Bottoms refused to pull her emergency order so Kemp is suing on the basis that requiring masks hurts businesses.

[NobodyHere]

Supreme Court Deals Major Blow To Ex-Felons' Right To Vote In Florida : NPR

2 things stick out to me after reading that:

One is how in the hell does it take 6 years to create a system?

Two is how is it that felons can't find out how much they owe? If the state can't say how much the felon owes then the fine should be dropped.

[sterlingice]

I think #2 is viewed as feature not a bug in the system if you're trying to disenfranchise voters

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The guy I saw that posted it took his post down, saying that he is hearing conflicting things about the video.

I figured that if it is real, then real news orgs will start coming out with stuff about it soon enough. And if it is fake/staged/etc. then it will just kind of peter out.

Looks like it is legit. Feds in unmarked cars with no identification are grabbing people off the street. Can't remember seeing that in this country in a long time.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/fed...nd-protesters/

Washington Post and other outlets have stories up too.

I am certain the Patriot groups and militias will be protesting this as an overreach of the federal government.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Supreme Court Deals Major Blow To Ex-Felons' Right To Vote In Florida : NPR

2 things stick out to me after reading that:

One is how in the hell does it take 6 years to create a system?

Two is how is it that felons can't find out how much they owe? If the state can't say how much the felon owes then the fine should be dropped.

The poll tax is back in vogue.

[RainMaker]

Unidentified officers in military fatigues searched & detained Portland protesters without giving any reason or documentation.

“I was terrified. It seemed like it was out of a horror/sci-fi, like a Philip K. Dick novel. It was like being preyed upon.”https://t.co/Eu1JatP7JO

— Sarah Kaplan (@sarahkaplan48) July 17, 2020

[Edward64]

This is an interesting ethical conundrum.

I think its pretty clear to me the US should prioritize vaccine/therapeutics distribution for US first and (close second) allies. I would not expect any different from China if they were to find a vaccine/therapeutics first.

The question now is ... within the US, should the vaccine should go to healthcare workers (makes sense) and then POC even before people with underlying conditions, older people etc. I think an argument could be made to vaccinate the younger generation first even.

(Therapeutics, treatment should go to the ones that need it most e.g. already in hospital, ventilators etc.)

Hopefully once a vaccine is found, the ramp up time will be 1-2 months before everyone in the US (or UK or China) gets it and the gap will be short.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sh...?mod=home-page

With the promise of a COVID-19 vaccine in the distant future and positive signs from a recent Moderna MRNA, 3.68% trial, public-health professionals are mulling which groups of people should get early doses. And some are weighing a controversial idea: moving people of color, whose communities have been disproportionately stricken by the disease, toward the front of the queue.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials and an outside advisory committee plotting an eventual vaccine rollout are considering bumping up certain groups for the first doses of an effective coronavirus vaccine, such as key national security officials, high-risk individuals and essential workers, according to a recent New York Times report. One option that has sparked some debate, the report said, is prioritizing Black and Latino Americans.

When asked who needed the vaccine after health-care workers, philanthropist Melinda Gates, wife of Microsoft MSFT, -0.75% co-founder Bill Gates, floated a similar idea during a recent Time magazine interview. “In the U.S., that would be Black people next, quite honestly, and many other people of color. They are having disproportionate effects from COVID-19,” she said. From there, Gates said, she would prioritize people with underlying conditions, older people and essential workers.

[JPhillips]

Are you fucking kidding?

Here is what I saw in Portland yesterday. pic.twitter.com/B0xvTTYvIj

— Acting Secretary Chad Wolf (@DHS_Wolf) July 17, 2020

[BYU 14]

And people thought The Man in the High Castle was just a show.

[Atocep]

A non paywall link to an article that discusses this with interviews with people detained.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/fed...nd-protesters/

[Noop]

Secret police?

WTF is this NAZI Germany?

[JPhillips]

All for graffitti.

[sterlingice]

November can't get here fast enough. Get all of these AHs out of power and prosecute them.

Unfortunately, this has now given a blueprint to future fascists so I think it's only a matter of time here

SI

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Are you fucking kidding?

It's become a tired trope here and elsewhere for #resist inclined people to really worry about "outrage fatigue" and the like. Because he/they do so many fucking terrible things it's really hard for right-thinking people to focus on any of them. It's just overwhelming.

Let's hope this...unidentifiable "police" depriving citizen rights under no flag at all...doesn't get lost in the shuffle as we all cry foul over beans and related horseshit. I mean, that's reprehensible too, but...

Are you fucking kidding?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

November can't get here fast enough. Get all of these AHs out of power and prosecute them.

Unfortunately, this has now given a blueprint to future fascists so I think it's only a matter of time here

SI

What makes you so confident that there will be an election in November?

This week we have seen Trump blatantly ignore rules about promoting goods, withhold Covid data and sent brownshirted secret police to pull people off the streets... He’s got four months to complete his full-dictator fantasy

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

This is an interesting ethical conundrum.

I think its pretty clear to me the US should prioritize vaccine/therapeutics distribution for US first and (close second) allies. I would not expect any different from China if they were to find a vaccine/therapeutics first.

The question now is ... within the US, should the vaccine should go to healthcare workers (makes sense) and then POC even before people with underlying conditions, older people etc. I think an argument could be made to vaccinate the younger generation first even.

(Therapeutics, treatment should go to the ones that need it most e.g. already in hospital, ventilators etc.)

Hopefully once a vaccine is found, the ramp up time will be 1-2 months before everyone in the US (or UK or China) gets it and the gap will be short.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sh...?mod=home-page

I read or heard on the news that a vaccine being found is not the time consuming thing but rather the manufacturing and we are talking minimum 6-12 mo this for enough to be made to vaccinate most of adults. It would be longer for the whole population. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...d-vaccine.html

[sterlingice]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/polit...apy/index.html

Hm... I wonder if Ginsberg has plans to stay on until, oh, about January

SI

[molson]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I read or heard on the news that a vaccine being found is not the time consuming thing but rather the manufacturing and we are talking minimum 6-12 mo this for enough to be made to vaccinate most of adults. It would be longer for the whole population. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...d-vaccine.html

The good news on that end is that the most promising vaccine candidates have already started mass production. They're betting big-time on them being effective.

I'm a little less sure on how distribution will work. It's easy to see Trump mucking that up somehow.