LXXVIII: Politicus Lupus (GAME OVER!! SEE POST #2593 FOR RESULTS)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Wow. And I thought I was bugging CR with questions.

Naw, you were like a distant #4 behind, in this order, Pass, Chubby and mccollins.

Oh and oliegirl, but she doesn't count in all that--she was expected to email me at some point or another.

Speaking of which...

Thanks for all the great help, olie! You're a star. Be sure to run a game yourself soon. I know you'll be great at it.

[henry296]

Here is the detail on how I got kicked out. I had two chances to use my popularity to win my election so I used the first to get my position back. I did e-mail CR and ask if I would be eliminated if I lost last night. He told me us and so I used my second popularity power. Therefore, I was shocked to see that I lost. I later learned that PurdueBrad used his powerful power to work against me and power beats popular so I lost the election.

[Chief Rum]

Yup. I felt the use against someone else/help someone else aspect of those powers was a bit under utilized, and when it was used, very effective.

[KWhit]

And good game, CR. I enjoyed it.

[PackerFanatic]

Yay! Good job villagers! And yes, great game CR. I think it will be better if you ever do it a second time around. It was tough getting a grasp on everything we needed to do and we tried too hard to get everything in right away (as far as roles go) Plus I seem to have played myself into a corner so I want a second chance

Either way, fun game, and good job all!

[Tyrith]

A WINNER IS ME! HURRAY!

Good job village -- KWhit, Pass, heinz especially.

[Tyrith]

BTW, me and Pass rule the universe now, without any of the rest of you interfering :P

[claphamsa]

i enjoyed it....wasnt sobad diing early, cuz i could actulally follow along!

[chesapeake]

Yay village! Thanks for a great game CR. I had fun and loved the premise.

But I hate your internet connection

[PackerFanatic]

No doubt about the internet connection - just glad that Time Warner isn't that bad here!

[Tyrith]

Thoughts on the game -

I've been pretty expressive about my opinion on the game, and perhaps too hard on you, CR, at times, and I apologize. The endgame turned out to be pretty fun. There were definitely good concepts in the game; the mechanics were actually pretty elegant in a lot of ways.

The problem, as has been stated before, is that the route you wanted us to go wasn't communicated effectively at the start. We went about making it a fairly normal game of WW and that wasn't your intent. Maybe it would have worked better if there were a couple of pre-existing roles and then some interesting, weird, and/or crazy rules thrown in that we would have to work our way around. Without some sort of stimulus to make the game turn out really differently we were going to fall back on what we know and try to make a normal game of WW.

There's definitely merit to this concept, and I'd love to see what could be done with it in a different environment with some tweaks.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Thoughts on the game -

I've been pretty expressive about my opinion on the game, and perhaps too hard on you, CR, at times, and I apologize. The endgame turned out to be pretty fun. There were definitely good concepts in the game; the mechanics were actually pretty elegant in a lot of ways.

The problem, as has been stated before, is that the route you wanted us to go wasn't communicated effectively at the start. We went about making it a fairly normal game of WW and that wasn't your intent. Maybe it would have worked better if there were a couple of pre-existing roles and then some interesting, weird, and/or crazy rules thrown in that we would have to work our way around. Without some sort of stimulus to make the game turn out really differently we were going to fall back on what we know and try to make a normal game of WW.

There's definitely merit to this concept, and I'd love to see what could be done with it in a different environment with some tweaks.

Oh, definitely. I liked a lot of the ideas I brought to this, and most of them worked as intended. But I think the main issue was the level of complication to it. I wrote perhaps the longest rule set to start the game, and it still wasn't enough.

I'm not sure the answer is being clearer so much as simplifying some things. I am glad that with a couple tweaks (dropping the vetos, the Bill Be Gone), I was able to head off some of the major issues and allow the game to progress to more interesting aspects (like the Districts and how they worked).

I have learned something from pretty much every game I have run, and this is yet another example of that. It will help me in the future with streamlining things while still keeping the interesting and pertinent elements intact.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

No doubt about the internet connection - just glad that Time Warner isn't that bad here!

I absolutely cannot stand Internet connections right now (although wonder of all wonders, no problems right now).

[Tyrith]

Yeah, the game needed to be either about the bills or about the elections; putting both mechanics together is too much.

[PurdueBrad]

Guys, awesome game. Heinz, you saved the game scanning me when you did because we had the game won that night.

My biggest regret (other than getting scanned), was that I could've knocked Lathum out of the game when he tried to get re-elected and chose not to use my power because I felt he was enough of a lightning rod that he would keep heat off of mccollins and Chubby on the dem side. I don't know how/if that would've changed things but it would've put you guys behind the eight ball a little sooner.

[henry296]

One thought that i had that make it better was to allow only one bill per day. That would make for an interesting dynamic between the parties negotiating which bill on the first day. I think with the potential for 3 bills allowed us no matter which roles we created to fill up too quickly.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by henry296

One thought that i had that make it better was to allow only one bill per day. That would make for an interesting dynamic between the parties negotiating which bill on the first day. I think with the potential for 3 bills allowed us no matter which roles we created to fill up too quickly.

I agree. That became clear to me early on (but too late to change). Definitely high on the list of changes to be made.

[Tyrith]

BTW Chubby's and mccollins's days of death are flipped on page 1.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

BTW Chubby's and mccollins's days of death are flipped on page 1.

Actually, Chubby's is fine. mccollins was supposed to be Day Eight (I copy and paste, and I must have forgot to update mccollins after bringing that over).

[Chubby]

It was fun but way too powered to the village side.

I knew full well that the only way for us to win was to not have a wolf killed on the day that we censured PurdueBrad.

It was going to take a miracle at that point so what difference did it make how I played my hand if I couldn't get a villager lynched at that point?

We caught some breaks in the elections but as I figured, the border district went to heinz...

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Naw, you were like a distant #4 behind, in this order, Pass, Chubby and mccollins.

Oh and oliegirl, but she doesn't count in all that--she was expected to email me at some point or another.

Speaking of which...

Thanks for all the great help, olie! You're a star. Be sure to run a game yourself soon. I know you'll be great at it.

Thanks CR - I had fun, even if Clap was IM'ing 3 or 4 times a day asking me who was a wolf, who was the brutal, who was this, who was that...at some point I asked him why he didn't just check the thread and he said "cuz I'm lazy"...that's about when I stopped answering his questions

It was awesome following along, the fake reveal scan that was almost pulled off yesterday - I really thought you had a chance, but then momentum swung the other way and PB ended up lynched. A few things today - Mccollings being appointed liason to the Wolf Party...I was just dying laughing! And Pass bugging me for results too, that was fun

I really doubt I'll be running my own game - ever! But any time you need help with a game, a draft, etc...let me know and I'll definitely help!

Good game guys!!!

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The people have spoken. mccollins must go. He protests, but to no avail.

"You are party of the Wolf Alliance and a traitor!" jeheinz screams, ketchup dribbling from his chin. "Take him away!"

"Not so fast, jeheinz," mccollins says with a foul grin. "I have something to tell you before I go."

jeheinz leans in expectantly.

Suddenly mccollins pulls out two jumbo jars of mustard and dumps them all over jeheinz, who screams in horror, "I'm melting! I'm melting!"

Sure enough, jeheinz disappears into a steaming yellow-red puddle on the floor.

"

That's just wrong, on SO many levels.

See if I ever trade you anyone good in NPBL collins! Ha!

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Well, I know that a lot of people were down on this game, but I had a lot of fun with it. Maybe it's because I was one of the few people not afraid to email CR with questions. At some point I noticed that my gmail had a thread with 29 emails to the attorney about our condo...and a thread with 100 emails to CR about the game (and I think that there was another thread with 30 more further down). Thanks, CR!

Yeah, I am WAY too lazy to ask questions. I maybe ask like 2-3 a game if I"m not a wolf, max.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Guys, awesome game. Heinz, you saved the game scanning me when you did because we had the game won that night.

Yeah, once I learned/figured out the wolf win conditions on the previous day, I had all but decided to reveal on that day whether you scanned as a wolf or not.

I think overall, the game was fun. The first few days ticked me off, but I had just started quitting smoking so well, I was probably a bit prone to getting ticked off anyhow (and I played it up a bit one of the days to avoid night kill suspicion). I think going forward, the one issue I had with the ruleset was the wolf win condition that they needed districts and not people. I think when i realized that, I looked at the listing and sure enough, you could see a few people I already thought were wolves with multiple districts.

[jeheinz72]

Oh, and good game CR! Overall, I enjoyed it!

[jeheinz72]

Oh, and props to Tyrith and Pass. We friggin ran shit this game.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Oh, and props to Tyrith and Pass. We friggin ran shit this game.

Word. Good thing none of us were wolves. Oh yeah, almost forgot to post my victory song:

I see the clouds that move across the sky
I see the wind that moves the clouds away
It moves the clouds over by the building
I pick the building that I want to live in

I smell the pine trees and the peaches in the woods
I see the pinecones that fall by the highway
That's the highway that goes to the building
I pick the building that I want to live in

It's over there, it's over there
My building has every convenience
It's gonna make life easy for me
It's gonna be easy to get things done
I will relax alone with my loved ones

Loved ones, loved ones visit the building,
take the highway, park and come up and see me
I'll be working, working but if you come visit
I'll put down what I'm doing, my friends are important

Don't you worry 'bout me
I wouldn't worry about me
Don't you worry 'bout me
Don't you worry 'bout me

I see the states, across this big nation
I see the laws made in Washington, D.C.
I think of the ones I consider my favorites
I think of the people that are working for me

Some civil servants are just like my loved ones
They work so hard and they try to be strong
I'm a lucky guy to live in my building
They all need buildings to help them along

It's over there, it's over there
My building has every convenience
It's gonna make life easy for me
It's gonna be easy to get things done
I will relax along with my loved ones

Loved ones, loved ones visit the building
Take the highway, park and come up and see me
I'll be working, working but if you come visit
I'll put down what I'm doing, my friends are important

I wouldn't worry 'bout
I wouldn't worry about me
Don't you worry 'bout me
Don't you worry 'bout ME..........

[Alan T]

Not to take anything away from the Republicans, I thought Kwhit did great this game, and having been able to watch all three threads from the start the Democrats were heads and tails better than the Republicans day 1 and probably most of day 2 with Kwhit's leadership. They got victimized by alot from the wolves and other unfortunate events though.

The Republican side only seemed to catch up as far as figuring things out I felt in mid game and after Mrs.Schmidty's lynch. That somehow seemed to spur their thought processes alot more. Obviously the Republican side had the key plays with Pass and Tyrith working out the various win scenerios to make sure the good guys wern't walking into a trap, and with Jeheinz pushing just hard enough to get the right people lynched on the day it counted.. But no one should overlook how well Kwhit played the entire game. I also thought Chesapeke played a very very strong game too and one that shouldn't be overshadowed just because the Republicans won.

[PackerFanatic]

Yeah, I was quite taken aback at how much we fell behind after having a really good day 1 and a decent day 2.

[jeheinz72]

I'd agree with you Alan, Ches and KWhit both played very well. In fact, I posted that I trusted them most of the game at one point. When I was asking for a Dem to come out and speak about another Dem for a lynch, those are the two I wanted to hear from.

[jeheinz72]

As far as who played better, I don't know. I just read a ton of their thread. A lot of it seems like busy work and voting for crap that could just like be decided on KWhit led them well though, no doubt. Repubs just kinda did stuff we didn't let the red tape bog us down.


And frankly, I don't feel bad about their getting some bad breaks early on. They wanted Speaker so bad, putting big time pressure on my to cross the aisle early. Well, they got what they asked for and it bit 'em in the ass. So yeah, not feeling like they got all that hosed frankly

[KWhit]

Thanks, Alan. I had a lot of fun this game and felt that the ruleset allowed for a lot of creativity once we got organized.

I thought the Dems had an incredible day one and was pretty peeved when Chubby's veto started the ball rolling toward the Republicans early on (not that I blame Chubby for that, just peeved that it happened).

By mid-game, there was an interesting split in the Dem party as some of us wanted to focus on finding wolves no matter which party they were in, while others wanted to bury the Republicans first. I think it worked out pretty well to try to look inside the Dem party to find the wolves - too bad we were wrong on EF and PF.

Late game, it was kind of a stroke of luck that henry and lathum were voted out of the game. As soon as we saw that they were vanilla villagers, it became obvious who the other two wolves were and it was game over. If Lathum and Henry had been around, I think we still would have won, but it might have been tough to nab Chubby (though it would have been obvious as he nightkilled to try to win districts I suppose).

[chesapeake]

Thanks, Alan T, I appreciate the props. I feel pretty smug about hitting a home run my first night as BG by protecting KWhit -- even if it was the obvious play. Giving the village a trusted anchor was helpful.

Being able to PM Pass liberally during the game was also extremely helpful for a noob like me -- especially since it was pretty clear he was a villager too.

I wish I had the opportunity to make the obvious play to protect myself after the surprising 3 AM election results, but life is that way, and all's well that ends well. I would have liked to have finished the game.

Chubby and McCollins did a great job as wolves, in my opinion. I really had no idea they were the bad guys in the party until after I was dead and gone.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Thanks, Alan. I had a lot of fun this game and felt that the ruleset allowed for a lot of creativity once we got organized.

I thought the Dems had an incredible day one and was pretty peeved when Chubby's veto started the ball rolling toward the Republicans early on (not that I blame Chubby for that, just peeved that it happened).

By mid-game, there was an interesting split in the Dem party as some of us wanted to focus on finding wolves no matter which party they were in, while others wanted to bury the Republicans first. I think it worked out pretty well to try to look inside the Dem party to find the wolves - too bad we were wrong on EF and PF.

Late game, it was kind of a stroke of luck that henry and lathum were voted out of the game. As soon as we saw that they were vanilla villagers, it became obvious who the other two wolves were and it was game over. If Lathum and Henry had been around, I think we still would have won, but it might have been tough to nab Chubby (though it would have been obvious as he nightkilled to try to win districts I suppose).

Actually by mid game I had a strong feeling that Eaglefan was just a villager and Lathum was a wolf based on how they were carrying on. It was only when Chubby pushed super hard on the PurdueBrad vs Jeheinz issue that I finally figured out Chubby was the 4th wolf.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Thanks, Alan. I had a lot of fun this game and felt that the ruleset allowed for a lot of creativity once we got organized.

I thought the Dems had an incredible day one and was pretty peeved when Chubby's veto started the ball rolling toward the Republicans early on (not that I blame Chubby for that, just peeved that it happened).

By mid-game, there was an interesting split in the Dem party as some of us wanted to focus on finding wolves no matter which party they were in, while others wanted to bury the Republicans first. I think it worked out pretty well to try to look inside the Dem party to find the wolves - too bad we were wrong on EF and PF.

Late game, it was kind of a stroke of luck that henry and lathum were voted out of the game. As soon as we saw that they were vanilla villagers, it became obvious who the other two wolves were and it was game over. If Lathum and Henry had been around, I think we still would have won, but it might have been tough to nab Chubby (though it would have been obvious as he nightkilled to try to win districts I suppose).

Yeah, we would have lynched mccollins next, which would have gotten us brutaled, and then with a night kill Chubby could have controlled most of the Republican districts by himself and we'd probably have a coin flip between henry and Chubby for who was the last wolf.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Actually by mid game I had a strong feeling that Eaglefan was just a villager and Lathum was a wolf based on how they were carrying on. It was only when Chubby pushed super hard on the PurdueBrad vs Jeheinz issue that I finally figured out Chubby was the 4th wolf.

Lathum was an interesting case. I wasn't willing to lynch him, because I was eventually moderately sure he was good. However, he was being so darned ornery that I wouldn't have minded getting him out of the game just to stop ticking off heinz :P Little did I know that was going to happen night 4, but eventually we got something for the six slurries we used.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Actually by mid game I had a strong feeling that Eaglefan was just a villager and Lathum was a wolf based on how they were carrying on. It was only when Chubby pushed super hard on the PurdueBrad vs Jeheinz issue that I finally figured out Chubby was the 4th wolf.

Yeah, I agree. Based on Chubby's actions on the seer reveal day, I would have pushed for him after we lynched mccollins, but you never know...

[Tyrith]

It definitely would have been dicier. And in my most likely KWhit/Lathum being the two killed via brutal and night kill night 7, heinz probably would have scanned Chubby and had him turn up good -- that may or may not have been enough for us to lynch henry instead. Man, how interesting would that have been?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Not to take anything away from the Republicans, I thought Kwhit did great this game, and having been able to watch all three threads from the start the Democrats were heads and tails better than the Republicans day 1 and probably most of day 2 with Kwhit's leadership. They got victimized by alot from the wolves and other unfortunate events though.

The Republican side only seemed to catch up as far as figuring things out I felt in mid game and after Mrs.Schmidty's lynch. That somehow seemed to spur their thought processes alot more. Obviously the Republican side had the key plays with Pass and Tyrith working out the various win scenerios to make sure the good guys wern't walking into a trap, and with Jeheinz pushing just hard enough to get the right people lynched on the day it counted.. But no one should overlook how well Kwhit played the entire game. I also thought Chesapeke played a very very strong game too and one that shouldn't be overshadowed just because the Republicans won.

I gotta disagree a little -- I think I schooled the Dems on Day 2 with the clap vote. I can't really take credit for the Mrs. Schmidty, though -- that was just dumb luck.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I gotta disagree a little -- I think I schooled the Dems on Day 2 with the clap vote. I can't really take credit for the Mrs. Schmidty, though -- that was just dumb luck.

Better lucky than good -- at least the methodology to the vote was sound, and I'd do it again. All you can do is try to make decisions that give the highest probabilities of success - how we got Mrs. S and then whiffed on EF and PF.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I gotta disagree a little -- I think I schooled the Dems on Day 2 with the clap vote. I can't really take credit for the Mrs. Schmidty, though -- that was just dumb luck.

Just out of curiosity why do you feel that the clap vote was a great move? Did you have some knowledge ahead of time knowing that everyone was falling into a trap other than you which is why you voted elsewhere to allow the democrats to successfully lynch a good guy and thus have a negative polling result from it?

It seems that if you knew it was a bad move, then a different play should have been suggested to them at the time. It seemed to me that the big turning point of the game for the republicans was the Mrs.Schmidty lynch (luck or not). Only after that is when I really saw some pretty slick strategy at times from several members of the republican party... Up until then it actually felt to me that you all as a group were floundering, unorganized, unable to have any kind of agreement on an overall strategy even. I might just have been missing it though, or remembering things incorrectly.

[Tyrith]

No, you aren't, Alan. Our problem, from where I sat, was that we had such a high non-participation rate in our party thread. It seemed like for the first couple of days the only person around for a lot of it was Pass, because heinz was busier in the first part of the game. It was essentially the two of us trying to make decisions which made me highly uncomfortable. For a while I was concerned with trying to build a consensus which wasn't coming. It wasn't until we took the bull by the horns that things really started to get going.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just out of curiosity why do you feel that the clap vote was a great move? Did you have some knowledge ahead of time knowing that everyone was falling into a trap other than you which is why you voted elsewhere to allow the democrats to successfully lynch a good guy and thus have a negative polling result from it?

It seems that if you knew it was a bad move, then a different play should have been suggested to them at the time. It seemed to me that the big turning point of the game for the republicans was the Mrs.Schmidty lynch (luck or not). Only after that is when I really saw some pretty slick strategy at times from several members of the republican party... Up until then it actually felt to me that you all as a group were floundering, unorganized, unable to have any kind of agreement on an overall strategy even. I might just have been missing it though, or remembering things incorrectly.

Just that there was a 13/17 chance clap was good, or anyone else for that matter. With Lathum's vote switch to KWhit, I figured I'd follow him on it, and if he's on to something, great, and if they switch back to all voting party lines, then they don't really have a read on him, they're just voting to save someone in their party. Reading the Dem thread today, I noticed that someone (don't remember who) called it a great result, which I think means I was right.

As for why I didn't suggest a better play, I don't think I was on much that evening -- I only had time to pop in every once in a while, ask Lathum (the Dem liaison) what was up over IM, and skim the threads. Also, bi-partisanship was at a pretty low point then, so I don't think my ideas for who would be better would have been listened to -- there's also the face that I didn't have a better idea, and recognized that fact. I think Lathum admitted to not having much of a read at some point in the Dem thread, but his strategy was to just push for Republicans, and my strategy was to let the Dems make that gamble.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

No, you aren't, Alan. Our problem, from where I sat, was that we had such a high non-participation rate in our party thread. It seemed like for the first couple of days the only person around for a lot of it was Pass, because heinz was busier in the first part of the game. It was essentially the two of us trying to make decisions which made me highly uncomfortable. For a while I was concerned with trying to build a consensus which wasn't coming. It wasn't until we took the bull by the horns that things really started to get going.

I agree with this -- I think that the few of us around usually could come to agree on stuff, but we also didn't want to seem like we the few of us around at the time were making decisions for the Party as a whole -- we took some heat for that on the very first day, before we had even officially made any decisions.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Lathum was an interesting case. I wasn't willing to lynch him, because I was eventually moderately sure he was good. However, he was being so darned ornery that I wouldn't have minded getting him out of the game just to stop ticking off heinz :P Little did I know that was going to happen night 4, but eventually we got something for the six slurries we used.

I really don't get this. I wasn't all the ornery, and what did you expect, ou guys sabatouged me early on. Was I not supposed to be upset about that?

[Lathum]

Oh Yeah, and while I am paying Heinze compliments in our thread he is trashing me in theirs, nice.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Lathum was an interesting case. I wasn't willing to lynch him, because I was eventually moderately sure he was good. However, he was being so darned ornery that I wouldn't have minded getting him out of the game just to stop ticking off heinz :P Little did I know that was going to happen night 4, but eventually we got something for the six slurries we used.

You know, I just realized you guys used 6 sluries on me and didn't think I was a wolf and had no districts to gain from me being removed ( i don't think anyway) and that is a pretty asshatish move.

If I piss people off that much I guess I shouldn't play anymore. Have fun.

[st.cronin]

I liked the game concept, although the day or so that I was in the game I felt a bit overwhelmed. I don't know why I was targeted early on by the wolves, that seemed a bit strange to me.

I am definitely thinking of stealing some of CR's ideas for my next game.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Oh Yeah, and while I am paying Heinze compliments in our thread he is trashing me in theirs, nice.

Ha, my bad man. But boy was I *pissed*.

I was not a happy camper the first 2-3 days of the game. Frankly, it's a good thing I was the Seer or things would not have ended well for me (part game frustrations, part quitting smoking)

[jeheinz72]

Oh and thanks for the compliment Lathum, I did see that this morning