COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by whomario

The most promising repurposed medication btw (at least acording to german/european scientists and doctors) might be Remdesivir, a drug developed to treat Ebola that eventually never really got used much because it ultimately proved less effective than alternatives.
And the company that developed it has pretty controversial track record for their prohibitive pricing of medication (f.e for Hep C and HIV). Seems like they'd rather sell a lot for a decent prize then nothing for a shitton, but you never know ...

Gilead is the drug maker and their medication for Hep C was extremely expensive but it was also a cure for it so unlike many drug makers who's goal is to keep you on the medication forever so the $ never stop rolling in they did provide a cure for those $

They also were given orphan drug status on remdesivir this week and asked the FDA to rescind that so I would think that in a situation like this if remdesivir turns out to be the best treatment that Gilead isn't going to be looking to hold up helping people to make a few extra bucks (I hope)

[Butter]

What do we think about this?

Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say? - WSJ

Basically saying the virus has already been here as early as mid-December, and has already spread to a bunch of folks.

[spleen1015]

I think Arles has been saying it for a while. There are likely 5x as many folks that have it that have been confirmed.

Gupta has been saying that 4 out of 5 people who get it, contract it from someone who didn't know they had it.

I definitely think the infection numbers are much higher and the fatality rate is much lower, but there are still a lot of people dying.

But I'm just a random dude on a fake football game messageboard. What do I know?

[Brian Swartz]

My response is that they might be right to a degree, but even if they are the article misses the point that's been discussed repeatedly in this thread. I hope I'm not being too repetitious by saying it again.

Originally Posted by WSJ

Fear of Covid-19 is based on its high estimated case fatality rate

This isn't the issue. The issue is the hospitalization rate. We know what's happening in Italy and to a degree also now in Spain and even New York. New Orleans appears to be next, etc. The number of people who will die despite the best efforts of modern medicine may indeed be relatively low. The number of people who will require hospital care is demonstrably not. The contagiousness of the disease is demonstrably not. And then when the medical system is overrun, you can't effectively treat nearly the volume of patients that require it, and that's when mortality (from all causes, not just COVID-19) spikes. That's why it's worth shutting down much of the economy over this - since that will happen anyway in a runaway pandemic to some extent - and one reason why you can't do as one pundit has irresponsibly suggested and just surround the old folks homes with the National Guard and call it a day.

[cuervo72]

I think we would have seen larger numbers for hospitalization and deaths before now if it had been here that early, unless it was in very isolated areas.

I also give a side-eye to anything WSJ these days. (Murdoch-owned, Pro-Trump.)

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I definitely think the infection numbers are much higher and the fatality rate is much lower, but there are still a lot of people dying.

I agree with this.

When they do a post-mortem on this, I would very much like to definitively know why there seems to be so much variability in the mortality rate.

[kingfc22]

We don’t know if there is so much variability in mortality rate because we don’t have expansive testing.

And since we don’t test mild or asymptomatic cases we’re never going to know what the true number is.

[Brian Swartz]

Yep. Also, there could be variances in the two known primary strains that we don't fully understand. There could be more strains emerging, or not.

We'll be able to make intelligent guesses years from now. That's as close as we're ever going to get.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Butter

What do we think about this?

Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say? - WSJ

Basically saying the virus has already been here as early as mid-December, and has already spread to a bunch of folks.

If this is true, then is it possible that has mutated and become stronger. Like maybe Covid 18 rolled through and a bunch got it and now its mutated to 19.

[Vince, Pt. II]

So sorry to hear about what you're going through Mota

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Butter

What do we think about this?

Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say? - WSJ

Basically saying the virus has already been here as early as mid-December, and has already spread to a bunch of folks.

Triple edged sword...

1) Should be great news! Obviously still appears to be quite contagious in certain situations (my amateur keyboard analysis says you are more likely to catch exponential rapid growth on a cruise ship, NYC Subway, Mardi Gras... vs normal everyday interactions) And could be wrong!!!
2) Might be misinterpreted by some as a call to immediately get back to work and normal life! Seems like the lock-downs and social distancing are definitely slowing the huge breakouts and need to continue to prevent the hospitals from overflowing and a lot of unnecessary death and/or suffering.
3) Will be naysayed by anyone under the opinion that everything the Trump administration does is wrong, possibly preventing getting back to more normal activities in late April/May/Early Summer.

So basically business as usual in the United States! :-)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm just shocked this message board has survived the virus. I figured I'd do my every-so-often check in and see a virtual wasteland.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by tarcone

If this is true, then is it possible that has mutated and become stronger. Like maybe Covid 18 rolled through and a bunch got it and now its mutated to 19.

Usually, the weaker strain travels quicker because people that don't feel as sick tend to do more. If I were to guess (and like spleen said I'm a guy on a football message board), I would think you could have had a weaker strain earlier that traveled quick. Then, it either mutated or the stronger strain eventually made it here from Europe/China. That would *seem* to fit the information we have.

All that said, we really don't know how many strains there are out there, the mortality rate for each and the full extent of the impact of this virus. I do think we will see a lower than 1% mortality rate once everything comes out down the road. But, we do know that this virus is pretty nasty and can send people in their 30s/40s to the hospital (let alone the older population). So, even if the mortality rate is 0.5%, the load on our health care system is a major concern. The best we can do is social distance until things start trending in the right direction.

On a sep note, has anyone heard more about doctors re-purposing the normal flu swabs to test for this? It seemed like someone was doing there here in AZ and then nothing more was said. If that works, it seems like a quick way for everyone to start testing more. You could have health care providers/companies setup "pick up" spots or even mail the swab to people on their plan. The family uses the swab and then drops it off in a secured manner to a private lab.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Arles

On a sep note, has anyone heard more about doctors re-purposing the normal flu swabs to test for this? It seemed like someone was doing there here in AZ and then nothing more was said. If that works, it seems like a quick way for everyone to start testing more. You could have health care providers/companies setup "pick up" spots or even mail the swab to people on their plan. The family uses the swab and then drops it off in a secured manner to a private lab.

With the message board guy disclaimer, I wouldn't think the antibodies would match using the flu test. What I have heard being done is that a flu test is done first, and if it tests positive, then a coronavirus test is not done.

[molson]

Our governor entered a stay-at-home order and we had an epic run on the grocery stores, Part 2, as people didn't understand that they're staying open and you can still go to them. Lines around the corner.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by molson

Our governor entered a stay-at-home order and we had an epic run on the grocery stores, Part 2, as people didn't understand that they're staying open and you can still go to them. Lines around the corner.

Well they're open today but what will tomorrow bring?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

Our governor entered a stay-at-home order and we had an epic run on the grocery stores, Part 2, as people didn't understand that they're staying open and you can still go to them. Lines around the corner.

Yeah we are about a week ahead of you. It does get better I mean if somebody stocks up on beans than they won't need them the next several weeks and they will be back soon enough. (Except toilet paper, still can't wrap my mind around why its still an issue) However it seems to put a bunch of people together therefore defeating the purpose of the stay at home order.

[molson]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well they're open today but what will tomorrow bring?

Fair enough. And when government changes the rules every 24 hours, superseding what they just told us was the well-thought out plan yesterday, it's understandable that people would be skeptical.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

Our governor entered a stay-at-home order and we had an epic run on the grocery stores, Part 2, as people didn't understand that they're staying open and you can still go to them. Lines around the corner.

I am going on 2 hours on hold with Instacart. Placed an order Saturday night to be picked up today for curbside. Got a message earlier in the day my order wouldn't be ready. I actually would have been shocked if it had been. With the message there is a link to click. I clicked the link and it takes me to the grocers page that shows me my order is still set to be picked up at the original time. I try to manually choose a different day at literally nothing available. So I call the grocery store who is of no help, again no surprise, and they give me the number for Instacart where I am hoping to get some resolution.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I am going on 2 hours on hold with Instacart. Placed an order Saturday night to be picked up today for curbside. Got a message earlier in the day my order wouldn't be ready. I actually would have been shocked if it had been. With the message there is a link to click. I clicked the link and it takes me to the grocers page that shows me my order is still set to be picked up at the original time. I try to manually choose a different day at literally nothing available. So I call the grocery store who is of no help, again no surprise, and they give me the number for Instacart where I am hoping to get some resolution.

When we initially did Walmart online grocery, it said to the effect no timeslots available for pickup (not that there wasn't any food). We tried a day later and it said there was a 2 days later timeslot so we ordered on Sun and picked it up on Tue.

[SirFozzie]

Hint for walmart grocery pickup or delivery that worked for me for pickup:

Currently, Walmart is only doing "Today or Tomorrow" pickup

Preload your groceries, then log on just after midnight (when the new day is added and new times are available) and select your time to complete the order

[tarcone]

Im done going out. Went to Wal mart today and was freaking out. Again, I am a type 1 Diabetic, but that hasnt really stopped me. But today, I was unusually panicked. I will not be going back.

[Brian Swartz]

Coronavirus is shortening my social media contact list somewhat. If you feel the need to post conspiracy theories about how it's a government plot to distract from Epstein or similar drivel, I feel the need to not be aggravated by your crap anymore. I am still seeing a lot of people being responsible in my area as well. Not all, not enough, but a lot are doing their duty and I'm grateful for that.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Coronavirus is shortening my social media contact list somewhat. If you feel the need to post conspiracy theories about how it's a government plot to distract from Epstein or similar drivel, I feel the need to not be aggravated by your crap anymore.

Yeah, that's just BS

... but the one about China creating it is feasible

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Hint for walmart grocery pickup or delivery that worked for me for pickup:

Currently, Walmart is only doing "Today or Tomorrow" pickup

Preload your groceries, then log on just after midnight (when the new day is added and new times are available) and select your time to complete the order

Great idea! I just put in a Kroger Pickup order. My 'time' of pickup is Sunday night from 7-8pm. Never tried it before... but it definitely lessened my anxiety about going around a grocery store.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah, that's just BS

... but the one about China creating it is feasible

Except it isn't.

Scientists say that there is no genetic evidence of it being man-made or enhanced.

[miami_fan]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/ford...-in-april.html

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Except it isn't.

Scientists say that there is no genetic evidence of it being man-made or enhanced.

Then we should make sure the Chinese know that also. Until then, its a good conspiracy theory.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Coronavirus is shortening my social media contact list somewhat. If you feel the need to post conspiracy theories about how it's a government plot to distract from Epstein or similar drivel, I feel the need to not be aggravated by your crap anymore. I am still seeing a lot of people being responsible in my area as well. Not all, not enough, but a lot are doing their duty and I'm grateful for that.

I removed most conspiracy theory types a long time ago so i'm good there. One thing I've seen that's caused me to ditch a few more friends is the way some people are talking about their new guns and ammunition purchases. Not that people are doing that,I understand why, but in many of these posts and comment chains there is a noticeable excitement over the possibility of getting to kill people if shit gets bad enough, I'm just not ever going to be okay with that.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by whomario

Knowingly bought them or only found out after the fact ? I mean, either bad and is another reason why, again, you can't allow this thing to overload healthcare systems. Because then you have to use a ton of really shitty solutions to try and get by ...
I mean, it's only a matter of time before someone will use some medication widespread before assertaining properly if the benefits really outweigh the cost. Especially for stuff you would give the 'medium-sick' to prevent them from potentially getting worse (without knowing for certain if they would). The impulse is absolutely understandable, which is why you don't want to get to a point where this seems reasonable ...
Same with taking unethical shortcuts with a Vaccine.

After they were received but...the scandal is starting as now the Chinese ambassador is saying in the press that the Spanish government bought them from a company/factory (Shenzhen Bioeasy Biotechnology) not licensed or approved by the Chinese government so the quality was never properly tested. Seems our government screwed up in the attempt to find a shortcut to the lack of offering compared to demand worldwide.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coro...es-2020-3?IR=T

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Great idea! I just put in a Kroger Pickup order. My 'time' of pickup is Sunday night from 7-8pm. Never tried it before... but it definitely lessened my anxiety about going around a grocery store.

I really hope it works out, but until they are putting the bags in your car I would temper the enthusiasm.

[Arles]

For Facebook, I'd recommend using the snooze liberally for the crazies you may not want to fully remove. I've snoozed a bunch of my redneck family for 30 days and it has been good for my mental health

[molson]

Why do you guys have so many conspiracy/crazy/gun-nut friends to begin with?

I guess I understand sometimes there's family that can't be avoided.

[spleen1015]

Some folks come from a far right background. A lot of my family is crazy pro-Trump. They believe everything he says, never considering it to be BS just because he is a Republican.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by molson

Why do you guys have so many conspiracy/crazy/gun-nut friends to begin with?

I guess I understand sometimes there's family that can't be avoided.

They are trying to get a balanced view of the issues? One side here, the other side on FB

[cartman]

over 500,000 cases worldwide now, and reported in 190 of 195 countries.

[IlliniCub]

Originally Posted by Arles

For Facebook, I'd recommend using the snooze liberally for the crazies you may not want to fully remove. I've snoozed a bunch of my redneck family for 30 days and it has been good for my mental health

I know it's not an option for everyone but I deleted my Facebook at the beginning of the year and haven't regretted it a bit after the initial adjustment period.

[Kodos]

I go on Facebook about once a month.

[molson]

I love my facebook bubble, I guess it's a rare thing to have. I want see photos and hear about my friends' and families' lives, kids, vacations, dogs. etc. And I want to be able to connect with organizations and charities I care about. And hear about local events. I want to know when a local brewery is having some charity fundraiser, or when Blazing Saddles is playing at the downtown theater, or that my friend got a new dog. I don't follow anything political. A few posts here and there touch on political stuff but it's such a fraction of the facebook experience for me. (I'm sure it helps that I don't have a lot of family and my overall social circle is probably smaller than most too - almost everybody I know, I know on purpose, so no nutjobs.)

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

I know it's not an option for everyone but I deleted my Facebook at the beginning of the year and haven't regretted it a bit after the initial adjustment period.

Same for me. Deleted mine sometime before Christmas. I have never looked back.

[Brian Swartz]

Facebook's the one consistent way to keep in touch with some of my family, so deleting isn't going to happen. I may consider the snooze option in the future for a few though.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah, that's just BS

... but the one about China creating it is feasible

or more likely us frankly.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Gilead is the drug maker and their medication for Hep C was extremely expensive but it was also a cure for it so unlike many drug makers who's goal is to keep you on the medication forever so the $ never stop rolling in they did provide a cure for those $

They also were given orphan drug status on remdesivir this week and asked the FDA to rescind that so I would think that in a situation like this if remdesivir turns out to be the best treatment that Gilead isn't going to be looking to hold up helping people to make a few extra bucks (I hope)

Gilead didn't make the Hep C drug. It was actually found with taxpayer funded research. Gilead just bought the small private company the government gave the taxpayer funded research grant to.

In a same world the country would own the rights to it since we paid for it.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I really hope it works out, but until they are putting the bags in your car I would temper the enthusiasm.

Fair enough. But I think going through Kroger itself would work better than a third party like Instacart (because you get the back and forth you were talking about). And Kroger does have limited slots per hour with it's special parking spaces for Pickup - so hopefully they are limiting it properly.

[Brian Swartz]

Worst day to date for France, reporting over 300 casualties.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Facebook's the one consistent way to keep in touch with some of my family, so deleting isn't going to happen. I may consider the snooze option in the future for a few though.

FWIW you can install facebook messenger without installing facebook proper on your phone or PC. That was my fix for the Facebook blooz.

[Lathum]

So out of the blue I start getting texts that my shopper has started and they are getting my order together for later today. My assumption is that they are likely having tech issues leading to poor communication. I don't really care as long as I get my order.

[CU Tiger]

Lathum/Issi and others who are suing the e-shopper route specifically to avoid personal contact.

So ive never doen the buy online pickup in store deal because...well I live in a tiny town that no one offers it.

But I am fascinated by using this specifically to avoid exposure.

Can you share your internal balance of
A) go in the store and potentially encounter numerous people
B) Avoid all those people I am avoiding but let a designated person handle all of my purchases (without my knowledge of how) who is in contact with all those people plus potentially all the pickup people.

Im not tying to bash or question your decision, just genuinely curious if you would expand on your thought process

[tarcone]

An actor died. mark Blum from Desperatley Seeking Susan.

How does Hollywoo react?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah, that's just BS

... but the one about China creating it is feasible

Doesn't seem likely. Though they did completely screw up the initial response and hose the rest of us. That said, the way we're handling it here - no testing, lots of fake optimism, etc - isn't all that different.


SI