2016-2017 College Basketball Thread

[tarcone]

Oh and I should say, Jok missed a 15 footer with 15 seconds left and we got the offensive rebound.

What an ending

[mckerney]

Go Hawkeyes! I believe the Gophers finish second in the Big Ten if they can win at Wisconsin on Sunday.

Really wasn't expecting that to be a possibility after a 2-16 conference record last year.

[sovereignstar v2]

Wisco has a chance to be the first ranked team to lose 4 straight games against unranked opponents.

PS - Still hate Iowa.

[INDalltheway]

The Boilermakers thank you Hawkeyes for the outright title!

No way IU goes after Drew considering he's known as running one of the dirtiest programs in the country. They went down that road with Sampson, and the aftermath of that was not worth the success. Donovan would be a HR hire for the Hoosiers, and as a Purdue fan would put us at a disadvantage in the state. It will be interesting to see who they can get.

[Suicane75]

So I put on the Elon Vs W&M game, because gambling, and John Feinstein, looking old, fat and depressed is doing color commentary in a half empy, half lit gym. I don't follow sports media at all anymore, but he was a pretty big deal back in the day. What happen?

[Suicane75]

24-7 Valparaiso scored 12 points in the first half. I know their best player is out, but still. How is that possible? They're playing the worst team in the Conference to boot.

The halftime score
Milwaukee 16
Valparaiso 12

[Atocep]

Grayson Allen has serious issues.

[wustin]

I'm glad he's gone after this year but I wouldn't put it past him if he stays to play out his last year of eligibility even after graduating. Wonder if an NBA team would take a flyer on him late in the first round.

[HerRealName]

He has to be done at this point, right? There's no reason to bring your elbow up that high on a drive unless you're going for the defender's head. I guess K will suspend him from practice or something but this psycho needs to be done.

[tarcone]

I dont know if a team takes a flyer on him or not. Maybe in the late 2nd. But there is a lot of baggage there. If he pulls some of this stuff in the NBA, he may leave a game in a body bag.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

He has to be done at this point, right? There's no reason to bring your elbow up that high on a drive unless you're going for the defender's head. I guess K will suspend him from practice or something but this psycho needs to be done.

And yet I see people falling all over themselves to say this was accidental. One of the tweets I read from a reporter was "It looked accidental on replay, but based on his history he won't be given the benefit of the doubt"

1 - The more you watch it, the more clear it is to me it was intentional. He wanted to make contact and draw the foul the entire time. The NC player had his arms out so the only way he could get the contact he wanted was to either drop the shoulder or raise an elbow. Most basketball players drop the shoulder. Allen, being the douche bag he is, raised his elbow.

2 - Of course he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt based on his history. That's the thing about benefit of the doubt, it's only given when it is DESERVED. I don't give Talib, Kelsey, Beckham or PacMan Jones the benefit of the doubt when they do something stupid. They've proven that's who they are. Grayson Allen is a cheap shot artist. No, I'm damned well not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

3 - I think Coach K is starting to lose his ever loving mind. He pulls the crap last year where he calls the Oregon kid a liar (which was so bad and inappropriate) and yet he defends this garbage and acts like everything is ok.

4 - The greatest thing about all of this was watching Allen choke all over himself at the end of the game. Not only are you a cheap shot specialist, you are a cheap shot specialist who gagged at the end of the game. Nice job Grayson.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I dont know if a team takes a flyer on him or not. Maybe in the late 2nd. But there is a lot of baggage there. If he pulls some of this stuff in the NBA, he may leave a game in a body bag.

I would pay a lot of money to watch him pull what he did tonight on Draymond Green, JR Smith or Cousins.

My only hint of sadness here is that Grayson missed Artests prime. that would have been epic.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by TroyF

And yet I see people falling all over themselves to say this was accidental. One of the tweets I read from a reporter was "It looked accidental on replay, but based on his history he won't be given the benefit of the doubt"

1 - The more you watch it, the more clear it is to me it was intentional. He wanted to make contact and draw the foul the entire time. The NC player had his arms out so the only way he could get the contact he wanted was to either drop the shoulder or raise an elbow. Most basketball players drop the shoulder. Allen, being the douche bag he is, raised his elbow.

2 - Of course he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt based on his history. That's the thing about benefit of the doubt, it's only given when it is DESERVED. I don't give Talib, Kelsey, Beckham or PacMan Jones the benefit of the doubt when they do something stupid. They've proven that's who they are. Grayson Allen is a cheap shot artist. No, I'm damned well not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

3 - I think Coach K is starting to lose his ever loving mind. He pulls the crap last year where he calls the Oregon kid a liar (which was so bad and inappropriate) and yet he defends this garbage and acts like everything is ok.

4 - The greatest thing about all of this was watching Allen choke all over himself at the end of the game. Not only are you a cheap shot specialist, you are a cheap shot specialist who gagged at the end of the game. Nice job Grayson.

There's no way it was accidental. There simply isn't a reason for his elbow to swing that high on a play like that. It's not a natural movement.

I just can't imagine the douchebaggery he pulled in high school with refs that are inexperienced and no replay to get a 2nd look at the shit he pulls.

As for his draft prospects? I don't see him getting drafted and that's without taking these incidents into account. He'll be 22 at the start of the NBA season and he's regressed this year as he's been asked to work with the ball in his hands more. Remove the name and you have a guy that's, at best, a late 2nd round type of guy.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Atocep

There's no way it was accidental. There simply isn't a reason for his elbow to swing that high on a play like that. It's not a natural movement.

I just can't imagine the douchebaggery he pulled in high school with refs that are inexperienced and no replay to get a 2nd look at the shit he pulls.

As for his draft prospects? I don't see him getting drafted and that's without taking these incidents into account. He'll be 22 at the start of the NBA season and he's regressed this year as he's been asked to work with the ball in his hands more. Remove the name and you have a guy that's, at best, a late 2nd round type of guy.

Then I wonder how many articles and docs will be made about his victimhood. I mean, I already see people justifying his actions right now. Give it 5 to 10 years and get a good documentary maker and he'll paint it as poor Grayson just did a few stupid things and the NBA made him pay while wife beaters and druggies stayed in the league.

[tarcone]

Iowa beats PsU, 90-79. Iowa is on fire right now and has 10 B1G wins which, normally, all but guarantees an NCAA bid.
But 2 wins in the B1G tourney is a must to seal the deal.

[tarcone]

Kim Anderson fired.

Missouri fires hoops coach Anderson ahead of SEC tourney | FOX2now.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: Mizzou

California's Cuonzo Martin is among the names on their list.

Countdown to wishing you had Anderson back starts about 10 minutes after you hire that putz.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Kim Anderson fired.

Missouri fires hoops coach Anderson ahead of SEC tourney | FOX2now.com

Search committee started three weeks ago, so it shouldn't take terribly long to make a decision.

[MrBug708]

So they are going to hire a coach already missing the postseason?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So they are going to hire a coach already missing the postseason?

Looking for a bargain

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So they are going to hire a coach already missing the postseason?

No, they'll wait it out obviously. From what I've heard, they have their top three targets and the search firm has already contacted their agents, so it's just a matter of waiting until the coaches and their season is complete.

[MrBug708]

Going on record on who it'll be?

[Kodos]

Tom Crean.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Going on record on who it'll be?

I really worry but it looks more and more like Lorenzo Romar. There are two local (Columbia, MO local) recruits that would likely be a package deal with him . I can't think of a coach off the top of my head (maybe Quin Snyder at Mizzou) that has done less with more than Romar but I guess 4* and 5* guys getting blown out excites the fanbase more than the 2* guys we have out there right now.

[MrBug708]

Those kids don't live in Missouri anymore. If it is Romar, it should be done by this weekend

[Thomkal]

Well Coastal Carolina did about as expected in its first year in the Sun Belt with no real elite talent. Middle of the pack with a win against most teams in the conference. Finished 15-16 overall, 8th seed in the tourney. Will face 9 seed South Alabama in New Orleans on Wed. Let's hope some of the Coastal Carolina magic from the baseball team rubs off on them.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Those kids don't live in Missouri anymore. If it is Romar, it should be done by this weekend

I'm pretty sure if Romar goes the boys do as well. Their dad is part of Romar's staff. Like I said not a top choice of mine but I worry this is where we are headed.

The other names thrown around (outside of the outrageous Donavan/Marshall type names) are Cuanzo Martin, Frank Martin, and Creen. Seems like if Crean can't get it done at Indiana there would be zero chance he gets it done at Mizzou. I would rather just go with an up and comer at this point than these choices.

[Kodos]

IU fans are desperate to be rid of Crean. Tracking flights from Bloomington to St. Louis, speculating who might be on those flights. Good times!

Meanwhile, conflicting reports on Donovan. Some are saying it's looking good, others put it at less than 1%. Some are like the Bennett to IU rumor is a smokescreen for Donovan. Who knows what's really going on?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Going on record on who it'll be?

Here's the list that's seems pretty legit in this order.

Tom Crean (will leave Indiana only if they push him out so they have to pay him)
Cuonzo Martin (but he'll take Illinois before Mizzou if offered)
Chris Holtmann

Crean and Martin have both been contacted through the usual outside channels and both have serious interest. Holtmann has interest, but it's only that for now. Romar is an outside option, but I really think he's the last ditch option. It sounds like he's begging for jobs right now.

I'd love to see Keatts as the hire, but sounds like he may land at NC State.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Iowa beats PsU, 90-79. Iowa is on fire right now and has 10 B1G wins which, normally, all but guarantees an NCAA bid.
But 2 wins in the B1G tourney is a must to seal the deal.

Looks like you might get Crean in his last game as coach of IU.

[MrBug708]

I can see why Martin would be interested. He seems like he's on the Trent johnson model of leave while you can before you get fired

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Tom Crean (will leave Indiana only if they push him out so they have to pay him)

From a prominent poster on the IU boards: "Even if IU were to fire Tom Crean before July 1 (which I don't see happening, firing that is), any of the buyout is spread out over years. And offset by any contract Crean would sign after leaving IU. Which could in actuality result in no out of pocket money from IU, depending on what Crean were to earn after IU, especially after July 1. The more likely scenario is a "soft landing" agreed to by both parties, where the settllement, unlike with Sampson, would be again, spread out over years. In essence, money is not going to be a factor in determining Crean's future at IU."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

From a prominent poster on the IU boards: "Even if IU were to fire Tom Crean before July 1 (which I don't see happening, firing that is), any of the buyout is spread out over years. And offset by any contract Crean would sign after leaving IU. Which could in actuality result in no out of pocket money from IU, depending on what Crean were to earn after IU, especially after July 1. The more likely scenario is a "soft landing" agreed to by both parties, where the settllement, unlike with Sampson, would be again, spread out over years. In essence, money is not going to be a factor in determining Crean's future at IU."

Correct. The payoff to Crean if fired is $4M, but it's offset by any salary at a different job. So if Mizzou pays $3M, then IU only owes $1M. If they pay $4M, then IU owes nothing.

[Butter]

OK so I noticed that at least a couple of conference tournaments have tried a different format this year... 1 and 2 seeds play their first game, then get a day off while the rest of that round's games are played on the next day. That means the 1 or 2 seed only has to play three games in four days while everyone else has to play either three games in three days, or four games in five days to win.

Interesting. I like that a little better than the double bye to the semis a league like the Horizon has used in the past. But it does eliminate a full day of basketball as there are typically only two games per day.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Correct. The payoff to Crean if fired is $4M, but it's offset by any salary at a different job. So if Mizzou pays $3M, then IU only owes $1M. If they pay $4M, then IU owes nothing.

That's every buyout

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

That's every buyout

And why salaries during a buyout period are often lower than what (perceived) full market value of the coach is.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by panerd

I can't think of a coach off the top of my head (maybe Quin Snyder at Mizzou) that has done less with more than Romar but I guess 4* and 5* guys getting blown out excites the fanbase more than the 2* guys we have out there right now.

To be fair to Romar, that's only recently become an issue. For the first 9-10 years of his run at Washington he did a good job getting a lot of out what were not top-rated recruits. But losing his brain trust of Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone and the recent rules changes limiting hand-checking have all contributed to him really losing his way.

And you don't have to worry - there's very little chance he's leaving Washington.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

To be fair to Romar, that's only recently become an issue. For the first 9-10 years of his run at Washington he did a good job getting a lot of out what were not top-rated recruits. But losing his brain trust of Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone and the recent rules changes limiting hand-checking have all contributed to him really losing his way.

And you don't have to worry - there's very little chance he's leaving Washington.

Don't get me wrong Romar is a significant improvement over both Anderson and Haith but not sure we want to replace somebody who is 7-23 with somebody who is 9-21.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Don't get me wrong Romar is a significant improvement over both Anderson and Haith but not sure we want to replace somebody who is 7-23 with somebody who is 9-21.

Romar has lost it. He does well in recruiting locally, and he parlayed that family connection with the Porters, but he's just not what he used to be in terms of coaching up his players. His style doesn't work well anymore, and lacking good teachers he trusts (like Dollar and Bone) in favor of recruiters on his staff, he has gotten very bad at adjustments and getting the most out of his players.

It's been a dizzying fall. Wind the clock back 6 or 7 years and things were different, but he's collapsed in spectacular fashion.

I think there's enough talent returning and enough experience with those guys to pair with a terrific incoming class that they should be a lot better next year, but I don't see them maximizing that talent, and there's the possibility that they could go two years in a row with a top-5 NBA pick and not make the Tournament.

[tarcone]

I love Iowa's draw in the B1G tourney.
Right now, I dont think anyone wants to face us.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Don't get me wrong Romar is a significant improvement over both Anderson and Haith but not sure we want to replace somebody who is 7-23 with somebody who is 9-21.

Romar after this next draft will have had six first-round draft picks on his teams. He's had zero NCAA tourney bids in those years.

He's going to be retained, so it doesn't matter anyway. I'm glad he's not going to be an option. Matta staying at OSU helps as well. One more landing place for prospective coaches isn't available.

Sources: Lorenzo Romar to return at Washington, Thad Matta to return at Ohio State, Mark Fox's Georgia future in doubt

[JonInMiddleGA]

The Mark Fox situation is a tough one. They're not a basketball school in a not-really-a-basketball state & that adds up to recruiting seeming pretty tough.

He seems to do an okay job with the talent he has, he just doesn't by & large have (or get) the talent to be in there with the Kentucky's of the world.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like Crean not only has been in contact, but has told Mizzou officials that he wants the job. Also, he may not even wait until he's fired. That would be a win for IU as they wouldn't owe him anything.

It appears that the Romar rumors had far more to do with Romar looking for a way out of Washington rather than any real interest on Mizzou's end. Saw that multiple members of the hiring committee advised the AD that Romar would be a "terrible hire". Ouch.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The Mark Fox situation is a tough one. They're not a basketball school in a not-really-a-basketball state & that adds up to recruiting seeming pretty tough.

He seems to do an okay job with the talent he has, he just doesn't by & large have (or get) the talent to be in there with the Kentucky's of the world.

UGA just issued a statement saying Fox would remain the coach. I think it's a smart move.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

UGA just issued a statement saying Fox would remain the coach. I think it's a smart move.

Yep, I literally popped over here to share that story.

Georgia statement indicates it plans to bring back Mark Fox for ninth season | Online Athens

I don't really worry that they'll ever be worldbeaters with him at the helm, but I don't know if that's a realistic expectation for them either.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

**chuckle**

What is Tom Crean's Buyout Today? | tomcreanbuyout.com

[Kodos]

Ugh. IU board in a tizzy because of info that Alford has made it known that he wants the job. Pretty much everyone on the board is hoping that doesn't happen.

[MrBug708]

Alford wants out of ucla, it's been know For awhile. Ucla would let him out of the buyout but it's all been hearsay.

You have a link or is this super Secret insider info?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Ugh. IU board in a tizzy because of info that Alford has made it known that he wants the job. Pretty much everyone on the board is hoping that doesn't happen.

You talking about the IU Rivals board? Just noticed a post over there that basically states that an agreement has been signed between IU and Crean for him to move on.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Alford wants out of ucla, it's been know For awhile. Ucla would let him out of the buyout but it's all been hearsay.

You have a link or is this super Secret insider info?

Nope. It's from the 247 boards. Alford talk starts around here:

247Sports


Edit: I see you already found and posted on the board yesterday.