Ben Roethlisberger, serial rapist?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

The girl's wishes are entirely irrelevant to this case. If the DA had evidence, he's compelled to press charges. That's his duty as DA.

It's just about impossible to convict someone without the victim's help. Sorry, rape cases are dropped all the time because the victim doesn't want to go through it.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

It's not just that the DA didn't think he could win. He said multiple times that he did not have probable cause. There's a big fucking difference between the two. Probable cause is defined as "there is a reasonable belief that the person committed a crime". That's the very definition of the term. So when he says he doesn't have probable cause, it precisely means that he does not have a reasonable belief that Ben committed the crime. In other words, he couldn't even legally charge him with the crime, never mind actually win the case.

Probable cause is a legal term and not to be confused with his own personal beliefs. Every cop and DA in the world could believe he was guilty of rape yet not believe they had probable cause to charge him. You are confusing the two.

It was also clear from his statement that he didn't think Ben was just an innocent guy who was being railroaded by some money-grubbing girl. He was careful with his words, but insinuated that he thought something went down and he just didn't have enough evidence to prove it. Amazing that you would take one small portion of his press conference out of context and ignore the rest of it that basically had him alluding to Ben being a shitbag.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

As for defaming the girl, please point to something that I've posted about her that's inaccurate. If you really want to get down to brass tacks, we have a girl that stalked Ben from bar to bar, got hammered, has no idea what happened and then later made a false claim. If there was something tangible to her claim, then I'd be all for running Ben out of town. But if you get your head out of your ass and actually look at the facts, the statements and the physical evidence, you'd quickly realize why no charges were brought.

Because when a girl drinks and wants to hang out with a guy, they typically file rape charges later that night. This happens so often.

And typically when I get really drunk, I tell my bodyguards to block the entrance to rooms while I go in with a much younger girl who is really drunk and a complete stranger. When her friends want to see her, I tell them to not let them through and to act as if they don't know where she is. I also hire a private investigator to dig up as much dirt as I can on the girl's past.

And of course when a girl gets drunk, her vagina gets bruised and lacerated and semen magically appears. That must have been from the fall Ben said where she hit her head (although the hospital said there was no trauma to the head).

Originally Posted by Blackadar

But I guess it's just easier to be part of the ignorant lynch mob and yell "off with his head". It's probably more fun too, but I don't believe on stringing people up based on false rumors and innuendo.

You see, if this was just some random guy in your community, you'd be calling him a scumbag. But he holds the key to your upcoming 9-7 season so how could he possibly force himself on her.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by molson

That's not true at all.

You're shitting me, right?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

You're shitting me, right?

Nope.

Though I'm not sure exactly what you're saying. Are you saying that prosecutors have to charge every case they can legally charge? Then I'm absolutely not shitting you. MOST cases that "can" be charged, aren't.

U.S. prosecutors have the exact opposite of prosecutorial duty. They have prosecutorial discretion.

Maybe in some cases one could argue a prosecutor has an ethical, but certainly not legal, "duty" to charge something, like a slam-dunk murder case. But low-level sex abuse charges with questionable evidence is a different story (even if it could be legally charged, and not thrown out for lack of probable cause prior to trial)

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's just about impossible to convict someone without the victim's help. Sorry, rape cases are dropped all the time because the victim doesn't want to go through it.

Let me quote the DA:

Q: Did her wish not to prosecute have any bearing on your decision here today?

A: Yes it made it easier, but had she not written and taken that position, the victim, her family, and her lawyers, that they did not want us to prosecute the matter at all – and they made it crystal clear in the letter – an honest answer is I would still be announcing the same result. We, based on the evidence here, don’t have enough evidence to prosecute.

So much for your theory.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Probable cause is a legal term and not to be confused with his own personal beliefs. Every cop and DA in the world could believe he was guilty of rape yet not believe they had probable cause to charge him. You are confusing the two.

You're probably right. Probable cause is no reasonable belief a crime was committed by a cautious person. In other words, rumor and innuendo shouldn't convict someone of a crime. I tend to believe in that.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It was also clear from his statement that he didn't think Ben was just an innocent guy who was being railroaded by some money-grubbing girl. He was careful with his words, but insinuated that he thought something went down and he just didn't have enough evidence to prove it. Amazing that you would take one small portion of his press conference out of context and ignore the rest of it that basically had him alluding to Ben being a shitbag.

Yes, and he had to justify the time and expense of the investigation. He doesn't know what went down and that's clear enough from his statement. I never said Ben was a choir boy, but he's almost certainly not guilty of what she claimed. I can't say he's not guilty of anything, because there's no factual information to make that conclusion. I don't care if he acted like a douche.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Because when a girl drinks and wants to hang out with a guy, they typically file rape charges later that night. This happens so often.

Straw man.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And typically when I get really drunk, I tell my bodyguards to block the entrance to rooms while I go in with a much younger girl who is really drunk and a complete stranger. When her friends want to see her, I tell them to not let them through and to act as if they don't know where she is. I also hire a private investigator to dig up as much dirt as I can on the girl's past.

I need to party with you. Seems like you have it all figured out. I'm glad you think 8 years is a much younger girl though, because I don't think I can keep up with the girls in their 30s anymore. I guess I should start hitting on grandma now.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And of course when a girl gets drunk, her vagina gets bruised and lacerated and semen magically appears. That must have been from the fall Ben said where she hit her head (although the hospital said there was no trauma to the head).

You see, if this was just some random guy in your community, you'd be calling him a scumbag. But he holds the key to your upcoming 9-7 season so how could he possibly force himself on her.

See, now you're casting aspersions on my morals and that's wrong. Actually, I believe in things like due process, facts and logic to convict someone of a crime. If he actually committed a crime, I'd be more than happy to see Dennis Dixon under center. But he didn't, Or at least there's not even enough evidence to charge him with one. So I'll leave the ignorant lynch mob gathering to you and your ilk.

FYI, since you again don't seem to know the facts on this, I'll leave you with another statement by the DA:

The doctor found no evidence of semen or discharge.

But then again, you know more about it than the DA, don't you? I mean after all, you're talking about "magic semen".

[molson]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Let me quote the DA:

Q: Did her wish not to prosecute have any bearing on your decision here today?

A: Yes it made it easier, but had she not written and taken that position, the victim, her family, and her lawyers, that they did not want us to prosecute the matter at all – and they made it crystal clear in the letter – an honest answer is I would still be announcing the same result. We, based on the evidence here, don’t have enough evidence to prosecute.

So much for your theory.

You definitely don't want to publicize that not cooperating with a crime, as a victim, gets the case dismissed (even if that's true 99% of the time). This is a big battle in domestic violence prosecutions, where the victims are almost never cooperative, and sex abuse cases, where it's often the case. That's a really touchy, sensitive issue among prosecutors, I'm sure he was coaching his words carefully there.

But again, I'd agree that this is a really weak case (based just on the evidence we know). Most prosecutors wouldn't pursue it. The media circus surrounding it makes it an easy decision. But I'm still sure he's a douchebag. I don't need a trial to know that.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Let me quote the DA:

Q: Did her wish not to prosecute have any bearing on your decision here today?

A: Yes it made it easier, but had she not written and taken that position, the victim, her family, and her lawyers, that they did not want us to prosecute the matter at all – and they made it crystal clear in the letter – an honest answer is I would still be announcing the same result. We, based on the evidence here, don’t have enough evidence to prosecute.

So much for your theory.

What theory? That rape cases get dropped all the time when the victim doesn't want to cooperate? Are you really trying to deny that?

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I need to party with you. Seems like you have it all figured out. I'm glad you think 8 years is a much younger girl though, because I don't think I can keep up with the girls in their 30s anymore. I guess I should start hitting on grandma now.

I'm 30 and I don't run around to college campuses getting 20 year old girls drunk and then having people block her friends from getting to her as I take her to the back. And from all the times I've been to a bar and been around drunk girls, I've never had one accuse me of rape. In fact, I don't personally know a single person who has been accused of rape by a drunk girl.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

See, now you're casting aspersions on my morals and that's wrong. Actually, I believe in things like due process, facts and logic to convict someone of a crime. If he actually committed a crime, I'd be more than happy to see Dennis Dixon under center. But he didn't, Or at least there's not even enough evidence to charge him with one. So I'll leave the ignorant lynch mob gathering to you and your ilk.

No, you're like many other Steelers fans. Don't you find it odd that you guys are the only ones who seem to think this was just a big misunderstanding? That a lot of people are looking at this saying "things don't quite add up here".

It's how a fans mind operates. Head on over to the Falcons message board when the Mike Vick story started to break and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Blackadar

But then again, you know more about it than the DA, don't you? I mean after all, you're talking about "magic semen".

Sorry, not semen, but male DNA. I change my statement that when you are drunk and fall, male DNA finds its way into your vagina.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'm 30 and I don't run around to college campuses getting 20 year old girls drunk and then having people block her friends from getting to her as I take her to the back. And from all the times I've been to a bar and been around drunk girls, I've never had one accuse me of rape. In fact, I don't personally know a single person who has been accused of rape by a drunk girl.

I have had two friends accused of it. One was guilty. One was a false accusation. So now that we've shared our personal experiences, let's get back to the case at hand.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

No, you're like many other Steelers fans. Don't you find it odd that you guys are the only ones who seem to think this was just a big misunderstanding? That a lot of people are looking at this saying "things don't quite add up here".

It's how a fans mind operates. Head on over to the Falcons message board when the Mike Vick story started to break and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Oh, horseshit. What doesn't add up are the facts of the case. Hence that's why the DA couldn't (not wouldn't) take it any further. I never said it was a big misunderstanding. What it almost certainly isn't is rape.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Sorry, not semen, but male DNA. I change my statement that when you are drunk and fall, male DNA finds its way into your vagina.

Hey, if I'm going to use your tactics of speculative and unsubstantiated conjecture, then it's because the little tramp with the fake ID and the Down to Fuck charm got gang-banged the day before she went out. I have no proof of that, but then again it's not stopping you from making wild accusations. So why shouldn't I?

What it comes down to is that it's very unlikely to not have enough testable DNA if they had intercourse. And if they didn't fuck, then her story is bullshit. And if that part of her story is bullshit, then what do you believe? Seriously, it's probably just that simple.

(FYI, most celebs have a bodyguard preventing people from using the bathroom when they're in there. It's to prevent photographers from clicking shots of them in the buff and doing their business. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, but that is pretty common.)

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I thought it would be Pumpy, but at least someone made the correct reply.

Yeah, I hadn't been reading this thread. Glad someone nailed it, though!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

What it comes down to is that it's very unlikely to not have enough testable DNA if they had intercourse. And if they didn't fuck, then her story is bullshit. And if that part of her story is bullshit, then what do you believe? Seriously, it's probably just that simple.

(FYI, most celebs have a bodyguard preventing people from using the bathroom when they're in there. It's to prevent photographers from clicking shots of them in the buff and doing their business. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, but that is pretty common.)

I'm kind of lost here. Ben admitted to sexual contact with the girl. In your fury to defend your favorite team's QB, you're defending him in something he's already admitted to doing. Are you calling Ben a liar? Or is sexual contact his way of saying took a dump?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Hey, if I'm going to use your tactics of speculative and unsubstantiated conjecture, then it's because the little tramp with the fake ID and the Down to Fuck charm got gang-banged the day before she went out. I have no proof of that, but then again it's not stopping you from making wild accusations. So why shouldn't I?

Pretty easy way to prove it was someone else's would be for Ben to give DNA. I mean if he was just chilling minding his own business, that should be an easy way to clear his name and end this nonsense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Pretty easy way to prove it was someone else's would be for Ben to give DNA. I mean if he was just chilling minding his own business, that should be an easy way to clear his name and end this nonsense.

Actually, pity though it is, I don't think that would clear him. According to the transcript there wasn't enough of a sample to get enough markers to compare his against, that's why he wasn't compelled to give investigators one.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by molson

Eyewitness testimony is usually enough for probable cause (and you have more than even that here).

Uhh, where is the eyewitness testimony that Ben had any sort of sexual contact with the girl?

There is testimony that he wanted her, and that he bought her shots, and that he was in the bathroom with her. That he was sleazy. But noone witnessed any criminal activity.

There is pretty much zero evidence that any crime occurred in the bathroom though.

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Pretty easy way to prove it was someone else's would be for Ben to give DNA. I mean if he was just chilling minding his own business, that should be an easy way to clear his name and end this nonsense.

They clearly had enough here to compel Ben to provide DNA. They did not because there was not enough DNA on the girl to use for comparison purposes (which in my mind argues strongly against the idea that it was left during the bathroom visit).

Everyone wants to condemn Ben based on her statements, but, if you only listen to an accuser's story, without cross examination, and without the accused's story, they look guilty every time. That's kind of why its important we allow defendants the right to cross examine. And this girl's story did not even stand up to the more gentle questioning of the police.

[RainMaker]

What part of her story didn't stand up? The differences I see are that she says she said no while Ben said it was consensual. Also Ben lied about her falling and hitting her head.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Actually, pity though it is, I don't think that would clear him. According to the transcript there wasn't enough of a sample to get enough markers to compare his against, that's why he wasn't compelled to give investigators one.

He still denied giving one when they asked. I guess if I'm a rich and famous athlete and am accused of a rape I never committed, I would love to give my DNA and show the girl to be a liar.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What part of her story didn't stand up? The differences I see are that she says she said no while Ben said it was consensual. Also Ben lied about her falling and hitting her head.

I was using the prosecutor's description of her story as "inconsistent," and their description of her level of drunkenness as "near catatonic" to draw a conclusion.

When did Ben lie about her falling and hitting her head? I did not think he ever gave the police an interview.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I did not think he ever gave the police an interview.

He spoke to police at the scene the night of the incident.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The only cop to talk to BR has resigned after making negative comments about the accuser to Ben less than an hour after the incident.

GBI report: Accuser claims Roethlisberger forced her to have sex *| ajc.com

While Roethlisberger avoided prosecution, the only officer to interview him has lost his job. Sgt. Jerry Blash resigned Wednesday under pressure, WSB-TV reported. Milledgeville Police Department Chief Woodrow Blue confirmed Monday that Blash had made derogatory comments to Roethlisberger about the accuser less than an hour after the alleged sexual assault was reported.

and from the same story

During their investigation, the GBI also came across an unsubstantiated allegation that a drunken Roethlisberger had made unwanted advances on another young woman who lives in the Milledgeville area.

During a party at Roethlisberger’s house, the quarterback allegedly pulled his pants down and told the woman she could “do whatever she wants," the GBI report states.

A week later, Roethlisberger invited her to a party where he allegedly forced his hand up the young woman’s skirt, according to the report.

She was able to escape and informed her father of the incident, the report states. The father apparently encouraged his daughter not to pursue a criminal complaint.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Sex is going to leave sufficient DNA evidence, even if you have a dick the size of Mini-Me.

She was walking around with a charm with the initials DTF - "down to fuck". I'm not sure we can assume this was a lady of high virtue, though I'm really trying to steer clear of casting aspersions.

I'm sure having a dick the size of Mini-Me would leave evidence. Having a dick the size of Mini-Me's dick... not so sure

[Dr. Sak]

Accuser tells police Ben Roethlisberger exposed himself to her, she said no - ESPN

[Logan]

Maybe Blackadar should go back into retirement.

[Dr. Sak]

this one gave me a chuckle

A New Big Ben Exposure Story: “He Had A Gray Penis" - Ben Roethlisberger - Deadspin

[thesloppy]

D.F.G.P. (Down For Gray Penis).

[RendeR]

Frankly I'm stunned that anyone is defending Ben at all.

So they couldn't oress charges. That doesn't absolve him of being a drunken assinine fukwit who apparently can't get a girl without dosing her with enough shots that she's "catatonic" or locking her into a hotel room with him.

The guy has an ethical values rating slightly higher than oh...Satan.

He's just another overpayed Professional (I use the term only in reference to the fact that he IS paid to play) athlete who probably could grow greatly after a liberal beating by any number of people he's screwed over in his life.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Frankly I'm stunned that anyone is defending Ben at all.

So they couldn't oress charges. That doesn't absolve him of being a drunken assinine fukwit who apparently can't get a girl without dosing her with enough shots that she's "catatonic" or locking her into a hotel room with him.

The guy has an ethical values rating slightly higher than oh...Satan.

He's just another overpayed Professional (I use the term only in reference to the fact that he IS paid to play) athlete who probably could grow greatly after a liberal beating by any number of people he's screwed over in his life.

YAY RENDER!!!! SPEAKIN DA TRUTH!!!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

YAY RENDER!!!! SPEAKIN DA TRUTH!!!

Wat Up Homey!

[Karlifornia]

LOL I thought I had it hard trying to defend Barry Bonds. Blackadar taking on the worst PR gig in America.

[spleen1015]

Plain and simple.

Ben is a sexual predator.

I think he's going to try to get away with it again at some point.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Plain and simple.

Ben is a sexual predator.

I think he's going to try to get away with it again at some point.

He did. I just don't want to press charges and haven't gone public with it because of that. I kind of liked it I think.....

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Cringer

He did. I just don't want to press charges and haven't gone public with it because of that. I kind of liked it I think.....

Excuse me, do you have any Grey Poop-on?

[rowech]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Plain and simple.

Ben is a sexual predator.

I think he's going to try to get away with it again at some point.

After talking with two people who were at Miami at the same time as Ben, it would appear this is a definite pattern of behavior. They both stated it was well known that he would go to parties after games and pull what appears to be the same types of routines on the girls there. I'm Ben Roethlisberger, here are some drinks, now let's get down to it.

So I guess in many ways, he very well could be.

[PilotMan]

So trying to get some by going out and getting a girl drunk is not in vogue? Just like Tiger ain't the first guy to cheat on his wife, Ben isn't the first guy to try and get some in a bar. It really just comes to that. Hell, Chad Ochowhatever has like 8 kids or something and you never hear about him being a great father. I wonder where they came from?

[tyketime]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Hell, Chad Ochowhatever has like 8 kids or something and you never hear about him being a great father. I wonder where they came from?

Russia? That was before Babygate...

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

So trying to get some by going out and getting a girl drunk is not in vogue? Just like Tiger ain't the first guy to cheat on his wife, Ben isn't the first guy to try and get some in a bar. It really just comes to that. Hell, Chad Ochowhatever has like 8 kids or something and you never hear about him being a great father. I wonder where they came from?

Are you trying to say it is OK to have sex with underage drunk girls in a public restroom?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by NewIdentity

Are you trying to say it is OK to have sex with underage drunk girls in a public restroom?

Girls have been getting into bars underage for years, it isn't a new phenomenon. She is over 18, she is an adult. I am pretty sure that public sex in bathrooms bar or otherwise still happens and has happened before.

Obviously having sex in public is frowned upon, but it's not some guys fault for trying to get a girl drunk. It happens every night all around the world. She was under 21, why was she even there? Is sure as hell isn't the guy's issue.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Is sure as hell isn't the guy's issue.

It is once she says no.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It is once she says no.

You're right, but I was referring to her age in the bar.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

but it's not some guys fault for trying to get a girl drunk.

Wow.

[NewIdentity]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

You're right, but I was referring to her age in the bar.

It is an 18+ Bar. That is why Ben was having to buy all the drinks for her, since she was not old enough to buy drinks in the bar. Not sure how it is the Bar's fault, when Ben was the one buying the liquor, and then giving it to underage girls in a private room?

[MikeVic]

I have no idea how common it is in the U.S. to have an 18+ bar when the drinking age is 21, but isn't that just asking for problems? People here are going to say they never bought drinks for a 20-year-old when they were over 21 at an 18+ bar? Again, I don't know how it is in the U.S. since here if someone is in a bar, it's fair game.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I have no idea how common it is in the U.S. to have an 18+ bar when the drinking age is 21, but isn't that just asking for problems? People here are going to say they never bought drinks for a 20-year-old when they were over 21 at an 18+ bar? Again, I don't know how it is in the U.S. since here if someone is in a bar, it's fair game.

It's pretty common. Normally the 18-20 year olds get a mark on their hand or the 21+ get a wristband or stamp.

[Dr. Sak]

Ben will get 4 to 6 games. It will depends on how he cooperates with the league.

[MikeVic]

What if his cooperation is taking the league to a washroom and buying it drinks?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/statuses/12583162729

Pittsburgh has begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top 10 pick. At least one team considering it. Story far from done.

Ok, Raiders or Buffalo?

[JPhillips]

Assuming there's a lockout next year, who's dumb enough to trade a top ten pick for half a season over the next two years?

My guess is it rhymes with Pal Clavis.

[cuervo72]

A couple of Steelers fans here at work seem pretty convinced he gets dealt tomorrow.

[stevew]

I hope he gets traded to the Raiders.

[DeToxRox]

The Steelers have begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top-10 pick, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

This confirms yesterday's report from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and takes it a step further. Schefter says the Steelers are the ones being proactive, and there is at least one team considering a deal. It's starting to look like a real possibility that Roethlisberger will be serving his 4-6 game suspension somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

[Kodos]

Ben going to the Raiders would fit in nicely with my jerk-magnet theory.

[molson]

There's no way they get any non-Raider first round pick.

[Swaggs]

Damn... this is happening quickly.

I'm fine with them dealing him, but I think I'd rather have multiple 2s or 3s (or a combination w/ a late first) rather than one top 10 pick.