Ongoing pro/college basketball thread (2023-24)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I see the argument for the shot clock and it was a raging argument here, too - Mack's team sucked so we were constantly behind and there were a couple coaches who went "4 Corners" for the entire 4th quarter of games - but yeah, on average, most teams can't run a consistent offense let alone one that would get them decent shots within the clock time. Of course, for Mack's team, the shot clock probably would have been irrelevant because they'd turn it over before the shot clock got anywhere near zero.

Most of our state title games saw shooting percentages around 30%, several teams in the 20s. Trust me, it was not due to stellar defending.

Aside from teams that had multiple P5 signees, the shooting from farther than 3 feet away simply isn't there for quick shots.

[sovereignstar v2]

Ugh, the transfer portal hit the Gophers like a freight train this morning. All three of their local class of '22 players entered this morning. Two of them are pretty unexpected. Probably going to snowball and will only return a handful of players yet again. I don't think I'm going to be able to deal with this year in and year out.

[Swaggs]

NIL hasn’t been round long enough to know patterns, but a lot of folks have said that any player decent enough to draw attention may as well enter into the portal (as long as there is no risk of their current team immediately moving on from them). They basically have an opportunity to renegotiate like a free agent every offseason, even if they intend to return to their schools. There is risk that some guys overplay their hands, and don’t have a seat when the music stops.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

There is risk that some guys overplay their hands, and don’t have a seat when the music stops.

That ain't a prediction, it's a spoiler.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That ain't a prediction, it's a spoiler.

Absolutely, but the egos on 18-24 basketball players are typically not based in reality. Like all the guys that declare early for the draft and go undrafted.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Absolutely, but the egos on 18-24 basketball players are typically not based in reality. Like all the guys that declare early for the draft and go undrafted.

Men's basketball has one of the better success rates actually -- about 75% of those who leave a scholarship find another one -- but barely half of those who enter the portal find a new home (with scholarship) across all D1 sports. The number is just 1/3rd for D2 sports.

[Ksyrup]

Having had experience with this in a couple non-revenue sports, I can safely say that a number of the kids who enter the portal are on their way out of their sports altogether, but put their names in the portal on the off-chance they find an ideal situation. So from what I've seen, those numbers are inflated from the perspective that they assume 100% of those in the portal are actively trying to find another place to play - or are willing to play anywhere to continue playing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Having had experience with this in a couple non-revenue sports, I can safely say that a number of the kids who enter the portal are on their way out of their sports altogether, but put their names in the portal on the off-chsnce they find an ideal situation. So from what I've seen, those numbers are inflated from the perspective that they assume 100% of those in the portal are actively trying to find another place to play - or are willing to play anywhere to continue playing.

Strictly on the anecdotal level, most of the D2s I've seen are largely in the portal as a Hail Mary. "On their way out of their sport" is fair, though the ones I've seen aren't really wanting to be on their way out.

[Kodos]

Heartbreaking loss to South Carolina after coming back from 22 down. So proud of how the Hoosiers fought to the end. I wish our men’s team would show that kind of heart.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Heartbreaking loss to South Carolina after coming back from 22 down. So proud of how the Hoosiers fought to the end. I wish our men’s team would show that kind of heart.

Watched the game. Great effort from the Lady Hoosiers. Hate that it ended the way it did.

[JPhillips]

NC State's DJ Burns could have been an excellent offensive tackle. He's a big boy with pretty impressive feet for a guy who's 6'9" and 280 or so.

[sovereignstar v2]

Creighton-Tennessee is almost certainly going to go down to the wire

Edit: errrrrrrrrrrrr

[Toddzilla]

AS if the state of basketball at Virginia Tech couldn't get any worse, they lose their 7th player to the portal. In the last week or so VT:

• Flamed out of both the men's NIT and women's NCAA
• Georgia Amore, 3rd team AA, announces she's leaving
• VT Women's coach leaves for Kentucky
• The top 7 men's players leave the program - 2 graduated, 5 to the portal

It was a good 3-5 year run, not gonna lie, both teams won their first ACC championships, but this is looking a very very dark time for VT Basketball.

[JPhillips]

Clingan vs. Illinois is an unfair matchup.

[weegeebored]

I would have fired Underwood before halftime.

[Ksyrup]

I didn't bother turning on the game after half. Apparently Illinois never left the locker room.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Kim Mulkey is a hell of a good coach.

But there is pretty much nothing that could be in that upcoming Washington Post article about her that would be so horrible that I wouldn’t believe it.

Considering how she was reacting to it before it came out, I thought there’d be some huge revelations in there about previously unknown conduct.

Instead, it was the story we’ve all heard before of an incredibly psychologically damaged person who has managed to channel their pain into extraordinary success in a highly demanding field. Sad, but not unexpected.

[Ksyrup]

And her over the top protestations just drive home the truth.

[JPhillips]

DJ Burns certainly isn't the best college player, but he might be my favorite.

[Ksyrup]

I don't understand how Burns is repeatedly doing spin moves and catching the D off-guard. Dude moves like he's orbiting the sun on those moves and still gets to the rim.

[Kodos]

This N.C. State team is easy to root for.

[Ksyrup]

He's like the alternate universe version of Edey - call him Feedy!

[JPhillips]

He barely jumps, he sometimes just doesn't run back on defense, he's not that tall for a center, and yet he's been killing everybody. I expect that ends next week against Edey, but maybe he can handle him too.

[miami_fan]

Sorry for those it might aggravate this week but I look forward to all the stories about that 1983 team and watching Jimmy V run around the court searching for someone to hug and kiss.

[Atocep]

Burns is 6'9" 280ish and pretty soft. Offensively he's really good, but there's no way he matches up with Edey. Outside UConn, no one can yet they continue to try to play him straight up and you just watch teams have to dip into their 2025 recruiting class in the first half because of foul trouble.

If Edey is going to score 30+ you might as well try to get them in transition, make him run, trap their guards, and turn it into 40 minutes of pure chaos. If he's going to score 30+ let him have it on easy baskets where your defense breaks down and you don't have to foul.

You might get run out of the gym, but these teams that go to the end of their bench to try to match up with the biggest anomaly in college basketball aren't giving themselves much of a chance anyway.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I expect that ends next week against Edey, but maybe he can handle him too.

Not if he gets to do his Foul Meng.

In fact they've already called three fouls on Burns in anticipation.

[JPhillips]

I think the hope for NC STate has to be early foul trouble for Edey.

[Swaggs]

Burns is really skilled around the basket. Almost like a Euro player, but not very physical. Edey’s in remarkably good shape and super well conditioned.

Burns and Nelson from Alabama would both make great pick up game ringers

[RainMaker]

35 minutes to figure out you should switch defenders with Clark and 38 minutes before putting an ounce of pressure in the backcourt. Much better questions for Mulkey than whether she talks to her Dad.

[stevew]

+118 on a South Carolina/UConn bet to win seems like favorable odds, no?

To clarify, I mean South Carolina to win the women’s tournament, and UConn to win the men’s tournament

[Toddzilla]

Have we ever seen 2 schools have both their men and women in the Final Four?

How bizarre it would be to have both finals NC State v UConn

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not if he gets to do his Foul Meng.

In fact they've already called three fouls on Burns in anticipation.

Can't remember if you are a UT fan or not, but it would make sense with this comment with the complete ownage Purdue has on them.

Burns probably won't spend a ton of time guarding Edey. If he does he will get completely punished. Intriguing matchup as NC State has been a Top 15 analytical team during their run here in March. Guards like DJ Horne have given the Boilers trouble over the last couple of years, so hoping Lance Jones can shut him down.

First time in my lifetime my team and alma mater have made a Final 4. Painter deserves this as he's always done things the right way and had some really bad luck dating back to Robbie Hummel and those teams.

If the Boilers can get past the Wolfpack, Uconn will be quite the challenge if they can avoid Alabama hitting 20 3's. This would be 1 of maybe 2 games Purdue would be the underdog all year and they've played a lot of great teams this year. I wouldn't count out Purdue though as they have an edge to them you rarely see.

[RainMaker]

This has not been a well officiated game.

[Ksyrup]

That offensive foul on the screen was bad. She basically just braced for impact.

[larrymcg421]

This shot here makes me think it's a clear foul. She's moves right into her.

Iowa is heading to the Natty after UConn’s final possession was cut short due to an offensive foul - YouTube

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That offensive foul on the screen was bad. She basically just braced for impact.

Looks like an offensive foul to me.

When setting a screen you can’t have your legs more than shoulder width apart. She also leaned into the screen. Tough call given the situation of the game, but the correct one. pic.twitter.com/TQfKvr5suK

— Devin (@devinbobay) April 6, 2024

[larrymcg421]

I predict this call to go down in history like the holding in the Eagles-Chiefs Superbowl. Everyone angry about it at first and eventually most people will agree it was the right call. Some will try to save face with, "yeah, but they didn't call it that way the rest of the game" which was mysteriously not part of the original incorrect argument.

[weegeebored]

In real time it's a foul. At first watch I even thought the screener threw an elbow. The ref has a split second to make the call or not. I don't understand the controversy.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I predict this call to go down in history like the holding in the Eagles-Chiefs Superbowl. Everyone angry about it at first and eventually most people will agree it was the right call. Some will try to save face with, "yeah, but they didn't call it that way the rest of the game" which was mysteriously not part of the original incorrect argument.

Well, I don't care enough to be mad or carry it with me. It was a decent bit of entertainment on a Friday night. That's about it.

Given that it was a women's basketball game, my comment comes from the standpoint that "technically correct" calls rarely have anything to do with how the games are officiated. There were certainly 2-3 dozen calls not made last night more egregious than that one.

I will say, it's interesting to see the team that basically put women's basketball on the map end up on the wrong end of a critical call. They are no longer the draw, just a side note.

[HerRealName]

I was all high on delta 9 last night and I was watching with the sound down. I thought the foul was so obvious I thought there might be consideration for a F1.

[GrantDawg]

I can see that foul pretty clearly. I think the controversy is more that those type fouls are usually ignored toward the end of the game. I had way more question on the foul that knocked Angel Reese out in the last game Iowa played. It looked to me like CC wasn't set and sort of hopped in front of her. No one made a big deal of it, so I guess that was just me.

[Sweed]

Question for any of the "the ref should have swallowed the whistle" folks.

Hypothetical..
Ref doesn't call the foul on the screener.
Buekers shoots a 3, misses the shot Iowa rebounds or the clock runs out with the shot on the way.
Iowa defender had a hand up but doesn't touch Buekers.
Now..
As Buekers and the defender come down Buekers lands on the Iowa player's foot.
Should the ref call a foul and give her 3 free throws? Should the ref swallow the whistle and not determine/affect the outcome of the game?

Like the screen it is "by rule" a foul, and I cannot imagine a ref not making that call, he or she would be crucified. BUT it didn't impact the outcome as the shot itself was unaffected. To me you call both when and if you see them.
Not sure how one could say ignore the screen but call the foul after the unaffected shot?

Haven't seen it but understand Buekers after that game said about the offensive foul call, paraphrasing "one call doesn't make a game". Which to me is the right response.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I guess I'm in the 3rd camp?

At full speed, on first watch, I did not see it as an offensive foul.

Slowed down, on replay, yeah, the call was right.

[Ksyrup]

I agree with Jon - but, again, it's hard for me to see a call like that made when they ignore more obvious, traditional basketball fouls all game. That's my main objection - not so much, swallow the whistle because of when the foul occurred but, why make that call then and ignore so many other fouls?

And yeah, Angel Reese fouled out on a crappy call, too. Mulkey had a small meltdown about it (by her standards), but that was another one that didn't make sense in the context of how the women's game is called.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I agree with Jon - but, again, it's hard for me to see a call like that made when they ignore more obvious, traditional basketball fouls all game. That's my main objection - not so much, swallow the whistle because of when the foul occurred but, why make that call then and ignore so many other fouls?

And yeah, Angel Reese fouled out on a crappy call, too. Mulkey had a small meltdown about it (by her standards), but that was another one that didn't make sense in the context of how the women's game is called.

Wasn't there a couple other moving screens called against UConn earlier in the game? I'm thinking 2 others but don't remember for sure.

[Atocep]

The NBA needs to take over its own HoF process or the Naismith needs an overhaul. Michael Cooper being a Hall of Famer is just a WTF moment.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I guess I'm in the 3rd camp?

At full speed, on first watch, I did not see it as an offensive foul.

Slowed down, on replay, yeah, the call was right.

Same. This clip sold it for me.

Looking at this in slow motion at this angle, it’s an illegal screen. Feet moving and also looks like there is extension of the elbow. #IowavsUConn pic.twitter.com/NWq2Gzitrn

— Kylen Mills (@KylenMills) April 6, 2024

[Ksyrup]

Yet they allow all manner of contact around the basket. It's a free-for-all - to the point where, earlier in the game, the Iowa center - anticipating a loose ball/jump ball scrum situation - literally went into a "stop, drop and roll" and rolled up on the back of the opposing center's legs as if she was an OL at the end of a running play. Sure, she got a foul, but in the men's game, that probably starts a brawl and at a minimum, should have been reviewed for a Flagrant 1 because she was not making a play on the ball.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The NBA needs to take over its own HoF process or the Naismith needs an overhaul. Michael Cooper being a Hall of Famer is just a WTF moment.

2042 hall of fame inductee Lou Dort disagrees.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The NBA needs to take over its own HoF process or the Naismith needs an overhaul. Michael Cooper being a Hall of Famer is just a WTF moment.

Not sure if it gets you in the Hall of Fame but five NBA titles is a player and two as a WNBA. Coach is at least something.