NFL Week 6 thread

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Miami was ok kind of bad, or at least had a pulse at times. Lions had a stretch of 2-30. They have two streaks of losing on the road to divisional teams that date back to 1995 and beyond. Before this year the Lions were something like 1-17 in divisional road games. The sad thing about the 0-16 team is you could tell they were actually trying.

One name that hasn't gotten tossed around in the Miami debacle is Bill Parcells. I know he's not there anymore, but the decisions he made have had a huge impact right now. Ireland and Sparano were his guys.

Parcells is the worst thing to happen to Miami since Sammie Smith.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Ireland and Sparano were his guys.

And again, I wake up on a Monday morning after another Suckfins loss and Ireland and Sparano still have jobs.

I wonder what these guys have to do to get fired. Course, with an owner like Ross you never know.

[Butter]

Um, it's Tuesday.

[Logan]

Glazer reporting that Palmer is being traded to Oakland for a 2012 1st plus a conditional pick. Insane if true.

[MrBug708]

At least the Raiders have a lot of picks

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Insane. It's like Al never left.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The conditional pick is a conditional 1st rounder in 2013, per Mort.

[JPhillips]

Fuck me. I can't believe MB is going to come out as the winner of this.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Fuck me. I can't believe MB is going to come out as the winner of this.

Well seeing how well the Bengals are picking in the first round is it really something that can be called a win?

[Doug5984]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

Well seeing how well the Bengals are picking in the first round is it really something that can be called a win?

[Danny]

I have mixed emotions on this. That's an awful lot to give up, but the Raiders are a very talented team and would be wasting it with Kyle Boller at QB. With Palmer, they should definitely be a playoff team and are still very young. Of course it means their 2012 draft is basically nothing as they will have very few picks. I hope the conditional is not another first though, that would be too much for sure. I don't necessarily believe Mort on that.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

Well seeing how well the Bengals are picking in the first round is it really something that can be called a win?

They've been good in round 1 since ML has been there. The problem has been rounds 2-4.

Palmer
Perry
Pollack
Joseph
Hall
Rivers
Smith
Gresham
Green

They haven't gotten stars, but that's a lot of good talent.

[JAG]

Whether a good move for Oakland or not (and I suspect in a few years we'll be laughing about it), a great move for the Bengals to add more talent to what surprising looks like an up-and-coming team.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Danny

I have mixed emotions on this. That's an awful lot to give up, but the Raiders are a very talented team and would be wasting it with Kyle Boller at QB. With Palmer, they should definitely be a playoff team and are still very young. Of course it means their 2012 draft is basically nothing as they will have very few picks. I hope the conditional is not another first though, that would be too much for sure. I don't necessarily believe Mort on that.

Ugh....I don't like this trade at all. The Chargers don't need the Raiders to improve. Hopefully he will struggle since he hasn't played for a while. Dammit.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Danny

I have mixed emotions on this. That's an awful lot to give up, but the Raiders are a very talented team and would be wasting it with Kyle Boller at QB. With Palmer, they should definitely be a playoff team and are still very young. Of course it means their 2012 draft is basically nothing as they will have very few picks. I hope the conditional is not another first though, that would be too much for sure. I don't necessarily believe Mort on that.

Not trying to be a dick here but did you watch a lot of Palmer last year? Guy's arm appears shot...unless he was hurt or just mailing it in. His numbers weren't great and I think those were even better than they should have been. His Adjusted INTs were second worst in the league.

[bhlloy]

Yeah, color me stunned that people actually think this is a good move. Palmer has very little left and he's walking into a new offense with no time to get it down. And potentially for 2 first rounders, wow. Just when the Raiders were starting to put it together. As a Chargers fan this makes me absolutely ecstatic.

[Draft Dodger]

it's as if Al Davis is still running the team

[stevew]

Oakland has a realistic shot at playoff births for the next 3 seasons. They were unable to find a QB that would enable this to happen, other than Carson If they stood pat, they would have no chance this season. Palmer gives them a chance, plus allows for long term development of Terrell Pryor.

The aggregate of all these moves is Carson Palmer, Aaron Curry and Pryor for 2 1s, a 3rd and like a 5th. Curry was a "can't miss" who missed. There's possible redemption opportunities. Pryor might be something within 3 years. Palmer stabilizes a franchise for 3 years, and allows you to win while you have the pieces in place.

I'm certainly taking leaps and bounds here with "raider logic" but this certainly makes a lot more sense than anyone wants to give them credit.

[bhlloy]

If this is 2006 I agree with you. There is no way in flaming hell Carson Palmer of today is worth 2 first round picks. All indications point to him being a worse QB last year than Jason Campbell and that's arguably on a team with more weapons.

Not like this is a career ender for Campbell, he could be back before the end of the year and then you gave up 2 first rounders for a guy who is probably not better than him. Madness.

[Logan]

I think Palmer is, at best, marginally better than Jason Campbell. If you're talking about which could lead you into and through the playoffs, give me Campbell and let me keep my picks. Those can be leveraged into a lot in what could be a great 2012 draft.

[Danny]

Hopefully the conditional is predicated on them winning the super bowl or something similar.

People were posting similar thoughts when the Raiders made the deal for Seymour and that turned out to be a great trade for the Raiders. We'll see, hopefully Palmer is not done.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Fuck me. I can't believe MB is going to come out as the winner of this.

Yeah. Congratulations, I guess. Will be enjoyable to see Palmer throw his nonsensical picks in another uni.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Logan

I think Palmer is, at best, marginally better than Jason Campbell. If you're talking about which could lead you into and through the playoffs, give me Campbell and let me keep my picks. Those can be leveraged into a lot in what could be a great 2012 draft.

That wasn't an option, Campbell is done for the year.

[stevew]

Palmer is also signed thru 2014. My perception of the raiders is that their front office is much more comfortable with offering large seasonal salary guarantees, vs handing out enormous signing bonuses. In many ways they are the opposite of an organization like Washington. Instead of having to renegotiate Campbell after this year, they were comfortable with the price that Carson costs.

This is my perception of their financial strategy, and not an endorsement thereof

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Um, it's Tuesday.

Shit, I missed Mackerel Mondays at the fish-n-chips down the street from my house

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by Danny

That wasn't an option, Campbell is done for the year.

Last report I saw said that Campbell could be back in six weeks.

Jason Campbell says he'll have surgery, could return in six weeks - latimes.com

[JAG]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Yeah, color me stunned that people actually think this is a good move. Palmer has very little left and he's walking into a new offense with no time to get it down. And potentially for 2 first rounders, wow. Just when the Raiders were starting to put it together. As a Chargers fan this makes me absolutely ecstatic.

I doubt it's really a new offense since the HC was Palmer's former OC. You can argue he has never thrown to these players though at least they have a bye week to get up to speed.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Rizon

And again, I wake up on a Monday morning after another Suckfins loss and Ireland and Sparano still have jobs.

I wonder what these guys have to do to get fired. Course, with an owner like Ross you never know.

I don't think the issue is Sparano, so much as it is Ireland. We've got a couple good players but outside of that the cupboard is bare. But Sparano will have to go as well to change the "culture" in Miami. Ireland has had four years to find the "QB of the Future" and is no closer now than the day he took the GM job.

Though if I'm Sparano, I would have already fired the receivers coach. The Dolphins wideouts run some of the laziest routes I've ever seen. You can get away with that between the 20's where you can run away from lesser athletes, but down in the red zone technique matters. You'll never get open if you telegraph exactly where you are running.

[Danny]

I'm sure the Raiders know reports better. Plus, from my memory, I don't think I've ever seen someone come back from that injury is 6 weeks.

[Danny]

To be clear though, there is no question the Raiders gave up too much. I'm trying to be optimistic and will hope Palmer can play well for them and make it not be too bad of a trade.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Danny

To be clear though, there is no question the Raiders gave up too much. I'm trying to be optimistic and will hope Palmer can play well for them and make it not be too bad of a trade.

I think it's a gamble. But is it any bigger gamble than two mid to high first round picks would be? Money-wise, I think it's a wash.

So the Raiders think they'll benefit more by spending those two picks now.

[Galaxy]

I thought just giving up up one second-round pick was the max one could get for Palmer. Color me stunned. Not to mention the Raiders spent a third-round pick to get Pryor.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Danny

I'm sure the Raiders know reports better. Plus, from my memory, I don't think I've ever seen someone come back from that injury is 6 weeks.

I don't know if this makes it a "better" or worse injury, but typically broken collarbones aren't treated with surgery according to my doctor roommate.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I thought just giving up up one second-round pick was the max one could get for Palmer. Color me stunned. Not to mention the Raiders spent a third-round pick to get Pryor.

At this point the raiders have to be entertaining the notion of Pryor being a WR/TE and 'Wildcat' QB. The future at QB is now Palmer.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think it's a gamble. But is it any bigger gamble than two mid to high first round picks would be? Money-wise, I think it's a wash.

So the Raiders think they'll benefit more by spending those two picks now.

Except with the rookie wage scale now in place, there's not nearly as much financial risk for high first round picks anymore.

[Danny]

This will not be a high pick. Raiders have a very talented team right now and even if Palmer is average they will likely win 9-10 games minimum.

[Ksyrup]

I told one of the big Bengals fans here in the office about this and he started dancing. Literally dancing, in his office. He's been saying for months he thought the Bengals could possibly get a 3rd and 5th for him. They get a 1st and no worse than a 2nd, at a time when 1st round draft picks barely cost anything.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Logan

I don't know if this makes it a "better" or worse injury, but typically broken collarbones aren't treated with surgery according to my doctor roommate.

Romo missed, what, 12 weeks with a broken collarbone last year? I suppose it's possible that it's a less severe break, somehow...

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I told one of the big Bengals fans here in the office about this and he started dancing. Literally dancing, in his office. He's been saying for months he thought the Begals could possibly get a 3rd and 5th for him. They get a 1st and no worse than a 2nd, at a time when 1st round draft picks barely cost anything.

My daughter is really excited. She's a Bengals fan and a Palmer fan. Said she's going to look for a Palmer Raiders jersey tonight on NFL.com.

[Ksyrup]

My 6-year old daughter broke her collarbone last year and was out of playing sports for 2 months. And we're talking soccer and softball, not any kind of contact sport. Plus, I assume kids injuries heal a bit quicker.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

At this point the raiders have to be entertaining the notion of Pryor being a WR/TE and 'Wildcat' QB. The future at QB is now Palmer.

There's no way that the Pryor situation even is remotely related to him needing to be made into a TE. He's 22 years old, he needs seasoning and maturity. This trade gives him time to develop as a QB under his first cheap rookie contract, rather than throwing him into the fire and potentially costing the Raiders a playoff birth.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Romo missed, what, 12 weeks with a broken collarbone last year? I suppose it's possible that it's a less severe break, somehow...

Last year they said it was a 6-8 week injury as well.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Danny

This will not be a high pick.

I know this isn't what you mean, but honestly these are *2* high picks. With the slotting system coming Palmer would have to perform to his previous peak for this deal to be close to being fair in my opinion.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by stevew

There's no way that the Pryor situation even is remotely related to him needing to be made into a TE. He's 22 years old, he needs seasoning and maturity. This trade gives him time to develop as a QB under his first cheap rookie contract, rather than throwing him into the fire and potentially costing the Raiders a playoff birth.

I think it the price that the Raiders are paying for Pryor, Curry, Seymour and Palmer in the way of draft choices may mean that Pryor will need to switch positions. Especially if he wants to see the field in the next three years.

If not, then the Raiders paid a third round pick to have their scout team QB for the next three years.

[Jughead Spock]

I initially thought it sounded high, but if it's the difference between the playoffs and not, it's worth it. Look at the AFC right now. It can be had. Steep price, but not outlandish.

[Eaglesfan27]

I am a huge Carson fan, but I am with by bhlloy. Carson doesn't look anything like he did early in his career and he is in no position to get the Raiders to the playoffs. I am shocked the Raiders gave up so much for him.

[molson]

I don't have a problem with trading mid-to-late 1st round picks to help your team now but I don't understand why teams carry backup QBs they don't want to put in games. Same with the Colts. I don't think it's so impossible to find to have a guy, in your system, that's going to be better for you then some guy off the scrap heap, or a rusty holdout. When Bledsoe went down, Brady was the guy, the Pats weren't going to scramble in desperation to land Shawn King or somebody. When Brady went down, they weren't afraid to go with Matt Cassell. If Brady goes down this week, I think the Pats would prefer either Hoyer or Mallett to Kerry Collins or Carson Palmer. If the Raiders don't trust Kyle Boller to actually play - why is he employed there?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't have a problem with trading mid-to-late 1st round picks to help your team now but I don't understand why teams carry backup QBs they don't want to put in games. Same with the Colts. I don't think it's so impossible to find to have a guy, in your system, that's going to be better for you then some guy off the scrap heap, or a rusty holdout. When Bledsoe went down, Brady was the guy, the Pats weren't going to scramble in desperation to land Shawn King or somebody. When Brady went down, they weren't afraid to go with Matt Cassell. If Brady goes down this week, I think the Pats would prefer either Hoyer or Mallett to Kerry Collins or Carson Palmer. If the Raiders don't trust Kyle Boller to actually play - why is he employed there?

I think you are over estimating the number of capable QB's in the league. I'd say 75% of teams (at least) will be screwed if they have to go with their backup QB.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't have a problem with trading mid-to-late 1st round picks to help your team now but I don't understand why teams carry backup QBs they don't want to put in games. Same with the Colts. I don't think it's so impossible to find to have a guy, in your system, that's going to be better for you then some guy off the scrap heap, or a rusty holdout. When Bledsoe went down, Brady was the guy, the Pats weren't going to scramble in desperation to land Shawn King or somebody. When Brady went down, they weren't afraid to go with Matt Cassell. If Brady goes down this week, I think the Pats would prefer either Hoyer or Mallett to Kerry Collins or Carson Palmer. If the Raiders don't trust Kyle Boller to actually play - why is he employed there?

I think part of this deal is simply a knee-jerk reaction to the death of Al Davis and trying to make the season special in his honor. That and it seems like Hue Jackson is making the personnel decisions and trying to solidify his position long-term. An 11 or 12 win season would make it harder for a new GM to fire him.

**Don't forget the Rams riding with Kurt Warner when Trent Green went down.