POTUS 2016 General Election Discussion Thread

[lungs]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

I think this is very dependent on company size.
I know when I first started my business and had 3-5 employees and "had" to take an income it was a major kick in the crotch as I got taxed on my income twice. Then as I grew and established and acquired assets to depreciate, I suddenly had no income and a lower tax burden.

All legal. All above board. But the tax code certainly favors larger business over smaller business.

But it gets into a philosophical debate, if an entity should owe any taxes.
I'd really like to see major tax reform where there is no incentive to hide personal assets inside a corp and corps dont pay taxes. Plus a much simplified and fairer tax code...but I'll die before I see it so...not holding my breath.

I should also acknowledge that farming is a different beast. When we do make money, we can either invest in very costly depreciable assets or prepay a lot of the next year's more costly expenses to avoid tax burden. Of course then we have those years like the past few where we just get our asses kicked and carry those losses forward.

I just remember about ten years ago when we had some pretty tremendous profits and my dad complained that he actually had to pay tax in.

It does turn eventually, as now my dad is divesting himself of a lot of the assets and is definitely having to pay taxes on that (while I'm starting to take more advantage the other way is I invest in the farm).

[RainMaker]

I think the Assange thing will disappoint like most of his stuff. Have a feeling it'll be some crazy conspiracy thing that has no actual sources. Noticed he was pushing some article off a nutty right-wing conspiracy site saying that Hillary called for a drone strike on Assange.

[Easy Mac]

Turns out it was nothing but Assange getting his face back out there. Shocking. It's always been about building a brand and bring famous.

[flere-imsaho]

Just in time for the VP debate: Federal Court Blocks Gov. Pence's Attempt To Bar Syrian Refugees From Indiana : NPR

Choice quotes:

The three-judge panel that issued the ruling is an all-star group of conservative judges, including one of the judges on Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump's list of potential Supreme Court nominees.

Writing for the court, Judge Richard Posner called Pence's argument "the equivalent of his saying (not that he does say) that he wants to forbid black people to settle in Indiana not because they're black but because he's afraid of them, and since race is therefore not his motive, he isn't discriminating."

[Ben E Lou]

So this is mainly for JIMGA with regard to our previous discussions in here regarding evangelicals, Trump support, and the wide differences in our perceptions of how our personal evangelical contacts are feeling about him. But I thought I'd post it here in case anyone else might care.

Last night, Erick Erickson (noted Evangelical #NeverTrump guy, former head of RedState) went on a long Tweet storm about Christians and voting/not voting for Trump. The entirety of it is linked below, but the part that really made me think about these previous conversations was him commenting that Dispensationalists tend to be more frequently Trump supporters while those who are more Reformed/Covenantal, while typically being heavily Republican, are usually at most nose-holders when it comes to Trump.

I grew up in the faith in a non-denominational church that was pastored by an ex-Southern Baptist who became a full-on five-point Calvinist (weird story, that one). Basically it was like a PCA Church that didn't do infant baptism (immersion-only, by personal profession of faith), and essentially all of my evangelical contacts from my home town come out of that church/tradition. Since then, yeah, even though I've attended mostly non-denominational churches in my various locations since then, some of which have attracted some Dispensationalist thinkers, all of the church leadership and the people I gravitated toward as friends all tended to be more Covenantal. My church here in GSO is about as far from Arminian thinking as is possible: Anglican Church (ACNA denomination) and both the pastor and associate went to Reformed Theological Seminary.

So, uh, yeah. If Erickson's hypothesis is correct (and theologically, it makes *complete* sense,) that would explain the wide delta that JIMGA and I are seeing. I'd been scratching my head over that one for a while, actually.

My friend @stevengberman compiled all of last night’s tweets together. https://t.co/cCXJZozOyv

— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) October 4, 2016

[flere-imsaho]

Being pretty much non-religious, the nuances of this are pretty opaque to me, so thanks for the thoughtful post, Ben.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Being pretty much non-religious, the nuances of this are pretty opaque to me, so thanks for the thoughtful post, Ben.

Well honestly, it's a nuance that I hadn't thought of myself, but without getting *too* much into the weeds of theological thinking and the type of person who'd typically be drawn to one style versus the other, it makes perfect sense to me.

Now watch JIMGA come in here and say that all his evangelical friends are PCA and blow up that theory!

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Turns out it was nothing but Assange getting his face back out there. Shocking. It's always been about building a brand and bring famous.

Maybe the fourth time is the charm for Wikileaks promising to end Hillary's campaign.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

It's always been about building a brand and bring famous.

I hear he also likes Swedish women.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Last night, Erick Erickson (noted Evangelical #NeverTrump guy, former head of RedState) went on a long Tweet storm about Christians and voting/not voting for Trump. The entirety of it is linked below, but the part that really made me think about these previous conversations was him commenting that Dispensationalists tend to be more frequently Trump supporters while those who are more Reformed/Covenantal, while typically being heavily Republican, are usually at most nose-holders when it comes to Trump.

Huh. That's interesting. I can kind of see Dispensationalists being pro-Trump.. heck, he may be the one that brings about the rapture and tribulation (or on the other hand, they may be like, we'll be raptured anyways, have fun with your Trump ).

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Turns out it was nothing but Assange getting his face back out there. Shocking. It's always been about building a brand and bring famous.

Assange promises election leaks but doesn’t drop October surprise - POLITICO

I don't think Hillary Clinton is quite done yet...

[bhlloy]

To be fair, a Trump presidency probably doesn't bode well for the chances of Assange surviving to see the next election cycle, even if Hilary did kick around assassinating him once already

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by lungs

This tax stuff is good politics by Hillary but I can't get too up in arms about it as I take advantage of the same tax rules. 2015-16 will have some losses I'll be able to carry forward and we take advantage of depreciation and all that. It's pretty rare that my farm has to pay in taxes. Of course we have property taxes and all the my personal income is taxed.

But then we get around to folks saying that business have an overwhelming tax burden which I find to be a load of shit. While our corporate rate is high, there are enough loopholes that the I truly wonder what the effective tax rate is for American corporations.

I know for my own corporation, taxes are the least of my concerns.

Well if your country is multinational it's rather easy to avoid taxes. You can funnel money through countries with lower rates. You do have to pay if you want to bring that money back, but politicians usually offer up a tax holiday for that every decade or so (Hillary voted for one in the Senate). I personally think the corporate tax rate should be lowered a lot because getting 15% of a lot of money is better than 35% of nothing.

I still don't understand the attacks on Trump's taxes though. He didn't make the tax laws. No one is paying more in taxes than they owe. Blame the politicians for such loose tax laws when it comes to wealthy individuals.

On the same topic, I think pointing out that he doesn't seem to be a particularly good businessman is fair. That should be the takeaway from this. The guy running on his business record somehow lost $900 million in a bull market on casinos.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

To be fair, a Trump presidency probably doesn't bode well for the chances of Assange surviving to see the next election cycle, even if Hilary did kick around assassinating him once already

Is there any proof Hillary wanted him assassinated? I didn't follow the story that closely but the only report is from that TruePundit.com website. And that doesn't appear to be that credible. Just seems really odd that she'd ask about assassinating a guy with a drone strike in the UK or Sweden. That would be a huge international incident.

To add to that, Assange likes to play the martyr and talk about this stuff a lot. He was a socialite in Europe well after the leaks. He could have easily been killed at any time without the use of drones. He didn't seem that concerned for his safety until he was wanted for questioning in a rape investigation. The guy was giving speeches and attending swanky parties while supposedly fearing for his life.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

On the same topic, I think pointing out that he doesn't seem to be a particularly good businessman is fair. That should be the takeaway from this. The guy running on his business record somehow lost $900 million in a bull market on casinos.

Trump cleared that up by saying 1995 was worse than the great recession and almost as bad as the great depression.

[mckerney]

On MSNBC today Gary Johnson said his lack of geography knowledge is a good thing because you can't get into a war with a country you can't find.

[QuikSand]

Fun toy

1,024 Ways

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Fun toy

1,024 Ways

So per that, the only was Trump wins is if he wins all the states that the Times has listed as under 80% Dem, which I assume means there's an 80% chance the Dem wins that state.

[Kodos]

That's pretty cool. It made me think of the WOPR trying to find the winning scenario before launching the missiles.

[Subby]

The real October surprise would be if my vagina didn't instantly dry up every time I saw a photo of Julian Assange.

— Jen Statsky (@jenstatsky) October 4, 2016

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by mckerney

On MSNBC today Gary Johnson said his lack of geography knowledge is a good thing because you can't get into a war with a country you can't find.

Yeah not exactly a convincing argument if he wants to leader of the free world.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yeah not exactly a convincing argument if he wants to leader of the free world.

It is right up there with his,"why worry about climate change when one day the Sun will burn up the Earth," take.

[JPhillips]

"My plan for ISIS is to wait. Eventually the Borg will assimilate them all."

[Ben E Lou]

What could possibly go wrong????

I will be watching the great Governor @Mike_Pence and live tweeting the VP debate tonight starting at 8:30pm est! Enjoy!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 4, 2016

[bronconick]

The RNC has declared Mike Pence the winner of the debate at 4:15 pm today

Philip Bump on Twitter: "This seems a smidge premature. (v @becket) https://t.co/wWGpawNyb0"

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by bronconick

The RNC has declared Mike Pence the winner of the debate at 4:15 pm today

Philip Bump on Twitter: "This seems a smidge premature. (v @becket) https://t.co/wWGpawNyb0"

SportsDigs declared Mike Pence the winner two weeks ago.

[digamma]

OK, well glad to know who won. I just turned it to baseball. Between Kaine's interrupting and Pence's faux compassion squint, I'm out.

[NobodyHere]

Honestly I think Kaine is winning only because Pence has to defend all the dumb shit Trump has said or done.

[CarterNMA]

The moderator is doing a pretty good job of keeping things on track. For the most part. Better than Lester Holt did.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Honestly I think Kaine is winning only because Pence has to defend all the dumb shit Trump has said or done.

Or there lack of defending the dumb shit Trump says. Pence is in a no win situation. Sometimes the best thing is to own up to your screw up and squash the issue. But completely denying EVERYTHING just get old fast.

[QuikSand]

I think for the sort of person who has vague curiosity about these two candidates, but no serious command of the issues or the details of the media issues over the last weeks... Pence looks to be the better candidate here by a wide margin. He's clear, calm, and persuasive. He's just racking up points by not being an asshat.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I think for the sort of person who has vague curiosity about these two candidates, but no serious command of the issues or the details of the media issues over the last weeks... Pence looks to be the better candidate here by a wide margin. He's clear, calm, and persuasive. He's just racking up points by not being an asshat.

Agreed....but you have to have lived in a freaking igloo for the past year to believe Pence. He looks and acts the part far better then Trump that's for sure.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

He's just racking up points by not being an asshat.

This. No idea what Kaine is thinking. It's like he thinks he's debating Trump and trying to get him to go on a rant.

[CarterNMA]

Okay, Kaine's response on religion and public service was a great one. Spot on what a politician should say.

[tarcone]

Thats weird. Swear I was posting in the Mathew thread. But posted here. Im losing my mind.

[NobodyHere]

Ugh, Kaine is really making rethink my decision to hold my nose and vote and Clinton. I'm getting more and more in the Johnson camp every time he interrupts.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by mtolson

Agreed....but you have to have lived in a freaking igloo for the past year to believe Pence.

Well, if you're still unsure if you are going to vote, or don't have enough knowledge that you're still deciding between the two major candidates that probably describes you. And Pence is cleaning up with those people vs Kaine tonight. He giving the appearance of a patient adult dealing with a petulant child.

[Ben E Lou]

Well done by both on abortion.

[NobodyHere]

Wait, they couldn't even go a full 2 hours? Well given the past hour and a half it's probably for the best.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Wait, they couldn't even go a full 2 hours? Well given the past hour and a half it's probably for the best.

So stamina may be an issue for the VP's...

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Well, if you're still unsure if you are going to vote, or don't have enough knowledge that you're still deciding between the two major candidates that probably describes you. And Pence is cleaning up with those people vs Kaine tonight. He giving the appearance of a patient adult dealing with a petulant child.

CBS just had a focus group on and they overwhelmingly gave the debate to Pence - but virtually none of them (there was maybe one hand up) said that it would make them any more likely to vote for Trump.

[Ben E Lou]

Trump would be wise to develop a case of laryngitis between now and Sunday.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

car of laryngitis

Or at least a car of wheezing.

(You edited, but I saw it!)

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

CBS just had a focus group on and they overwhelmingly gave the debate to Pence - but virtually none of them (there was maybe one hand up) said that it would make them any more likely to vote for Trump.

And CNN's focus group picked Kaine. So this might not have mattered at all. Like we would have guessed going in.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Zinto

And CNN's focus group picked Kaine. So this might not have mattered at all. Like we would have guessed going in.

I don't know if this matters at all, but who did CNN's focus group consist of? CBS's group was undecided Ohio voters.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't know if this matters at all, but who did CNN's focus group consist of? CBS's group was undecided Ohio voters.

They were undecided voters from Virginia I believe. (I could be wrong about what state that they are from.)

[larrymcg421]

How did Kaine get through the debate without going after Pence on LGBT issues?

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

How did Kaine get through the debate without going after Pence on LGBT issues?

Too busy attacking Donald Trump I guess

[Jon]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Well, if you're still unsure if you are going to vote, or don't have enough knowledge that you're still deciding between the two major candidates that probably describes you. And Pence is cleaning up with those people vs Kaine tonight. He giving the appearance of a patient adult dealing with a petulant child.

Except people don't base their vote for President on who the Vice-Presidential nominee is....people try to believe that's the case, but it never works out that way....because at the end of the day, people remember who's at the top.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Zinto

They were undecided voters from Virginia I believe. (I could be wrong about what state that they are from.)

There was a lady in the CNN crowd who put her hand up for "Kaine won" and "No clear winner". That's showing commitment to her undecided ideals.