Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Let's not kid ourselves here. All of these schools are positioning themselves for the big conference shakeup that will occur next summer and likely drag over to the summer after that. They're willing to sacrifice a year or two for the betterment of their own school when they get a mega-conference invite. By going independent, they open up their options quite a bit. It also forces the hands of the other schools, making sure that major realignment occurs sooner rather than later.

[MacroGuru]

Fresno Bee and RGJ.com are reporting that both Fresno and Nevada are accepting the MWC invites...

Question is does this keep BYU with the MWC now..

[MacroGuru]

Press Conferences going on right now for UNR and Fresno...

UNR stated negotiations with WAC begin tomorrow on buyout....UNLV helped get them in.

We have MWC press conference at 930 MST I think with Thompson...

[Buccaneer]

Good riddance to BYU (for now). Even the WAC for their other sports is too good for them.

[k0ruptr]

Fuck the WAC is done. Hawaii needs to find a fucking conference that will look past the travel problems. We come with a decent football team, average basketball, excellent top 10 Mens and womens Volleyball, and decent baseball, so its not like we are a bad school at any of these. The travel kills us, and others.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

Hawaii needs to find a fucking conference that will look past the travel problems.

Is there really any conference that can do that in this economy?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Let's not kid ourselves here. All of these schools are positioning themselves for the big conference shakeup that will occur next summer and likely drag over to the summer after that. They're willing to sacrifice a year or two for the betterment of their own school when they get a mega-conference invite. By going independent, they open up their options quite a bit. It also forces the hands of the other schools, making sure that major realignment occurs sooner rather than later.

I just don't see how these schools will be in a better position for a major shakeup. If anything, wouldn't BYU be hurt by such a shakeup? What if ND finally jumps to the Big 10? I don't see the PAC-10 inviting them and the MVC would likely get the leftover pieces if the Big 12 fails. Where would BYU turn to? They aren't ND and they need to realize that.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Fresno Bee and RGJ.com are reporting that both Fresno and Nevada are accepting the MWC invites...

Question is does this keep BYU with the MWC now..

I don't think so only for the simple reason that those schools don't help the MWC in gaining AQ status and that is what BYU is looking for.

I don't know that being indie makes it any easier though. BYU has a nationwide network that is HD capable and a solid fanbase around the country, but to be considered for AQ status they need to have the same cache as Notre Dame and they just don't.

To get there they would need to play a Notre Dame type schedule and while they can handle mid tier BCS programs with relative ease and knock off a powerhouse here and there, they can not compete at a high enough level week to week to be more than a 8-9 win a year program at best playing a Notre Dame caliber schedule. Not enough depth and a recruiting model that makes it hard to gain that depth and consistently land players like the ones they got in the 2010 class, which is what they would need to do every year.

To me this all leads back to that stupid fucking idea for the MWC to get their own network. Low revenue payout, poor national exposure and next to no name recognition east of Texas. If the MWC had just made right with ESPN, coupled the with success of Utah, BYU and TCU on a ntional level things would be pretty good right now. They could have worked a better TV deal, kept Utah and still added Boise State which would have made AQ status a lock.

I just don't know at first glance I am not at all crazy about these developments.

[Izulde]

I'm not thrilled about adding either Nevada or Fresno State from a MWC prestige improvement perspective in either football or basketball, although I do like the idea of having Nevada/UNLV rivalry being a conference one.

[Young Drachma]

I think BYU will now stay, realizing that if they do the MWC gets AQ status and it's all good. Rather than taking the risk of being left in the cold and screwing the entire athletic department on a long-term gamble. The MWC made the right move, even if Nevada and Fresno State aren't exactly top-tier programs, it's a better move than standing pat with only 8 teams if BYU left. I hope they go after UTEP and Houston as the rumor is they might...

[MacroGuru]

Alright...

I think BYU just made a Texas style move here...Even though the MWC commissioner said no member will receive concessions in order to stay, I think he is up in the night.

I think a renegotiated TV deal becomes part of the deal, more money for everyone. and BYU stays.

I think UTEP or Houston get the invite and we now have a conference championship game. All this puts us that much closer to AQ status.

[BYU 14]

I like Houston in the MWC alot, but not Utep. (sorry Jeebs) With June Jones at the helm I think SMU is a much better choice long term as he will build a program down there.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I like Houston in the MWC alot, but not Utep. (sorry Jeebs) With June Jones at the helm I think SMU is a much better choice long term as he will build a program down there.

And Houston and Dallas are much bigger markets as well.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

And Houston and Dallas are much bigger markets as well.

We already have the Dallas market with TCU...I think we go after the Houston market next..

[DeToxRox]

Something interesting from the story on ESPN:

Benson said the WAC will look at schools in Division I-A and I-AA conferences. Among the schools that have been reported as possibilities are Montana, UC-Davis and Cal-Poly.

Is that really feasible?

[Swaggs]

I read (can't remember where) that the BCS may actually push for BYU independence and grant them a Notre Dame-like berth because the current BCS conferences can justify leaving the MWC out with both Utah and BYU gone. If the MWC is granted a spot, that forces the BCS to share an additional $18M each year. If BYU is an indy, odds are that they won't make more than one or two (if any) BCS games and the payouts will remain "in-house."

[Galaxy]

I like how the WAC is calling Fresno State and Nevada selfish.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars...s-byu.html.csp

An article on BYU's problems in getting teams to play them:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coll...dependent.html

[MacroGuru]

So I know the Quorum of the 12 had or is having their meetings today for BYU and what to do ...I honestly do not think we will hear anything from BYU until Monday..

[Young Drachma]

If BYU went independent and had no concessions, all they'd have to do is finish Top 14 and get a BCS bid. They did that last year, but being in the MWC prevented that from happening.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If BYU went independent and had no concessions, all they'd have to do is finish Top 14 and get a BCS bid. They did that last year, but being in the MWC prevented that from happening.

They'd only be considered for a bid. The 'Top 14' is in place in the event there are fewer than 10 automatic qualifiers.

At-large eligibility

If there are fewer than 10 automatic qualifiers, then the bowls will select at-large participants to fill the remaining berths. An at-large team is any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible and meets the following requirements:

A. Has won at least nine regular-season games, and
B. Is among the top 14 teams in the final BCS Standings.

No more than two teams from a conference may be selected, regardless of whether they are automatic qualifiers or at-large selections, unless two non-champions from the same conference are ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in the final BCS Standings.

If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final BCS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

If expansion of the pool to 18 teams does not result in 10 teams eligible for selection, then the pool shall be expanded by blocks of 4 teams until 10 eligible teams are available subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15 or lower, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

Relative to the two preceding paragraphs, all teams ranked in the top 14, other than those from conferences which have already had two teams selected, must be included in the bowl selections.

Note: in order to participate in a BCS Bowl game, a team (i) must be eligible for post-season play under the rules of the NCAA and, if it not an independent, under the rules of its conference and (ii) must not have imposed sanctions upon itself prohibiting participation in a post-season game for infractions of the rules of the NCAA or the rules of its conference.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

If BYU went independent and had no concessions, all they'd have to do is finish Top 14 and get a BCS bid. They did that last year, but being in the MWC prevented that from happening.

Can they get enough quality opponents, while beating them, to do that?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe I'm just tired, but this is one of those quotes that I had a tough time not reading over & over
"Only if the WAC believes that it would be in the WAC's best interest that there would be an early out, would there be an early out," Benson said.

Sounds kind of like a slightly stoned Rocky Maivia talking or something.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Can they get enough quality opponents, while beating them, to do that?

Teams don't like to go to Provo, so they would probably be forced into 2 for 1 concessions in some cases and if they were scheduling 3-4 top line BCS teams a year, which I think would be the minimum needed to gain a top 14 birth. That being the case they would need to go 4-0 against those teams or 3-1 with no other losses and I don't see that happening.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Something interesting from the story on ESPN:

Benson said the WAC will look at schools in Division I-A and I-AA conferences. Among the schools that have been reported as possibilities are Montana, UC-Davis and Cal-Poly.

Is that really feasible?

It's not much of a choice for the WAC at this point. The MWC basically ruined a BYU/WAC alliance by undermining them for the best remaining teams in the WAC. There really isn't much else out there in the main geographic footprint of the league other than high-quality FBS schools like Montana.

It's also not unprecedented as UConn was a I-AA football school in the process of transitioning to I-A, but moved up their full transition a year after the ACC raid and the Big East needed them to get back to eight again. Not sure the WAC has that kind of time, though. They're effectively a non-entity in FBS now since they need eight members for football (only six needed to keep an auto-bid to the NCAA tourney in basketball, though) and generally it's a years-long process for I-AA teams to transition to I-A.

Of course, if the 16-team mega-conferences are on the horizon, then this whole exercise is rearranging deck chairs for most of the league members in both leagues.

[MacroGuru]

The one thing that shocks me the most and move Utah State up in my book...they kept their word after getting the invite to the MWC while Fresno and UNR didn't....to me that was major.

[Ksyrup]

Major what - stupidity? Now they can accept pats on the back from the other WAC members as they sink into bolivian.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Major what - stupidity? Now they can accept pats on the back from the other WAC members as they sink into bolivian.

I don't know...Integrity and keeping their word...they all agreed to not jump ship to keep everything in place after BSU bolted. But Fresno and Nevada took off not keeping their word.

[Ksyrup]

I know, but look what that got them.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

It's not much of a choice for the WAC at this point. The MWC basically ruined a BYU/WAC alliance by undermining them for the best remaining teams in the WAC. There really isn't much else out there in the main geographic footprint of the league other than high-quality FBS schools like Montana.

It's also not unprecedented as UConn was a I-AA football school in the process of transitioning to I-A, but moved up their full transition a year after the ACC raid and the Big East needed them to get back to eight again. Not sure the WAC has that kind of time, though. They're effectively a non-entity in FBS now since they need eight members for football (only six needed to keep an auto-bid to the NCAA tourney in basketball, though) and generally it's a years-long process for I-AA teams to transition to I-A.

Of course, if the 16-team mega-conferences are on the horizon, then this whole exercise is rearranging deck chairs for most of the league members in both leagues.

Yeah, but in addition to Montana, there are some good options out there in their footprint from the next rung (Portland State, for example)

[MacroGuru]

Wow...things are a little interesting in the CFB climate right now...

The PAC-Whatever Expansion still not official?

Dickey: Latest additions to Pac-10 Conference not all positive | San Francisco Examiner

[MrBug708]

Young was an incredible Chancellor for UCLA, but the combination of Young and former UCLA AD, Peter Dalis, were content on seeing that softball and woman's volleyball were on par with college football and basketball.

[Swaggs]

I think it almost sounds like he is trying to plant a Pac 10 seed for BYU and Air Force.

[Ksyrup]

Well, UCLA's softball team has won about 10 more championships than the football team in the past 30 years.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Not sure the WAC has that kind of time, though.

They do have apparently until 2013 until they get down to 6 teams, so that's some time to either bring people in, or run in seperate directions in total panic.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Good riddance to BYU (for now). Even the WAC for their other sports is too good for them.

Amen.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, UCLA's softball team has won about 10 more championships than the football team in the past 30 years.

Considering they are relatively flush with money generated by the football program, the softball team should be winning championships.

[Ksyrup]

Is that unique? I thought all lower-tier programs were funded that way. FSU's football program funded the construction of the building surrounding the stadium, which houses a ton of classrooms. The money generated by big school football programs is used for everything.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Wow...things are a little interesting in the CFB climate right now...

The PAC-Whatever Expansion still not official?

Dickey: Latest additions to Pac-10 Conference not all positive | San Francisco Examiner

Eh, this is the same type of mentality that had the Pac-10 stuck in a perpetual rut, watching as the rest of the college football world passed them by.

Sure, there are scheduling issues with adding Colorado and Utah, much more so than if Scott had succeeded in bringing Texas etc. over to form a Pac-16. Yeah, maybe Utah isn't quite at the same level as many of the other Pac-10 schools academically. And yeah, maybe Colorado and Utah don't add more than they take away financially. But the Pac-10 is stuck geographically, and without expanding their footprint, they are going to continue to lose ground to the other BCS conferences.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, now I have read the link re: former Chancellor Young's opposition.

This is the kind of dinosaur thinking that mucked everything up for the Pac 10 in the first place. This is the kind of person that got us stick with Tom "Do Nothing" Hansen for 20-plus years, and the aforementioned Dalis as AD at UCLA. Good riddance to Young, IMO.

I like how the columnist makes it out like it's not going to happen now because Young is emailing currents chancellors and presidents, calling it "strong opposition". The columnist even says in the article he agrees with Young's position. This is just a hack columnist who found a dissenting loon and gave him a forum.

I am confident--mostly because of the projected financial windfalls--that Young's pleas will be ignored (and glad for it).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is that unique? I thought all lower-tier programs were funded that way. FSU's football program funded the construction of the building surrounding the stadium, which houses a ton of classrooms. The money generated by big school football programs is used for everything.

Unique? No. But I was pointing out that your argument about softball generating more championships is a little silly when you consider they are only able to do it because of the football program. Your point was essentially irrelevant.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is that unique? I thought all lower-tier programs were funded that way. FSU's football program funded the construction of the building surrounding the stadium, which houses a ton of classrooms. The money generated by big school football programs is used for everything.

Maybe what he means is that more of UCLA's football money is diverted to the rest of the athletic department than is usual at other schools.

I know that there was a lot of consternation at Washington in the mid '90's when our AD decided to spend our war chest and nearly all of her fundraising efforts on non-revenue sports rather than addressing the deteriorating condition of Husky Stadium. And, surprise surprise, the softball team has a beautiful stadium with a priceless view of Lake Washington and Mount Rainier, while the baseball and soccer teams play in half-assed "stadiums" that consist of temporary metal bleachers.

[Chief Rum]

Oh, and I know you were offering up the softball thing somewhat tongue in cheek, of course, so sorry if my response comes off more serious. Not really intending to respond with any more conviction than is needed.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think it almost sounds like he is trying to plant a Pac 10 seed for BYU and Air Force.

What I thought as well.

[DeToxRox]

It's almost all but assured that Michigan and Ohio State will be in separate divisions when the Big 10 announces alignments in the next few weeks. The game will not be played at the end of the year anymore to accommodate that. This has all but been confirmed by Michigan AD's David Brandon.

On the UM Rivals site they are reporting Michigan is trying to make sure Penn State is in their division for recruiting purposes, which would put OSU and Nebraska together on the other side.

[Kodos]

Seems like Penn State would go more naturally with Ohio State. But I guess they've said geography isn't a primary consideration for the alignments.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

It's almost all but assured that Michigan and Ohio State will be in separate divisions when the Big 10 announces alignments in the next few weeks. The game will not be played at the end of the year anymore to accommodate that. This has all but been confirmed by Michigan AD's David Brandon.

Wow, really? That sucks. I'm assuming that Michigan and Ohio State will be assured of still playing every year, right? And if that's the case, why not allow for that game to still be at the end of the year? Because they're afraid that it might get repeated the next week in the Big Ten championship game?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Oh, and I know you were offering up the softball thing somewhat tongue in cheek, of course, so sorry if my response comes off more serious. Not really intending to respond with any more conviction than is needed.

Yeah, I was just joking. My point was that by one measure, softball is more than on equal footing with football.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Wow, really? That sucks. I'm assuming that Michigan and Ohio State will be assured of still playing every year, right? And if that's the case, why not allow for that game to still be at the end of the year? Because they're afraid that it might get repeated the next week in the Big Ten championship game?

Yeah Michigan/Ohio State will happen every year still. And that is the issue on why the game will move, so there isn't a repeat. I am indifferent to it but as long as they aren't stupid and move it to week 1 like FSU/Miami did, I don't hate it.

I think it is safe to say that UM, OSU, Nebraska and PSU will be split up. Then Iowa and Wisconsin will be split up.

I think if UM gets their way it'll be Michigan, PSU, Iowa and OSU, Nebraska and Wisconsin. Then the crossover games every year would be UM - OSU, PSU - Nebraska (something I have heard both schools are pushing for) and Wisconsin - Iowa.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Well, UCLA's softball team has won about 10 more championships than the football team in the past 30 years.

Dalis ran the UCLA football program like Sterling runs the Clippers. If it's making money, who cares about the product on the field. Hence the softball team performing so well and the football team being...average

[DeToxRox]

Here are the quotes from UM's AD about the division alignments:

Michigan athletic director Dave Brandon, who has spent personal time with commissioner Jim Delany recently, has been on many conference calls and in-person meetings about the divisional breakdown, was asked today if he would put Michigan and Ohio State in the same division.

"No," he told WTKA-AM (1050) hosts Ira Weintraub and Sam Webb. "Because we're in a situation where one of the best things that could happen in a given season, in my opinion, is the opportunity to play Ohio State twice. Once in the regular season and once for the championship of the Big Ten."

So if that occurs -- and the divisions will likely be announced by the Big Ten in the next few weeks -- would the Wolverines and Buckeyes at least play the season finale, as recent history has dictated?

"I think there's a distinct possibility that game will be a later game in the season but not necessarily the last game of the season," Brandon said. "That's simply because I don't think the coaches or the players or the fans or the networks or anyone would appreciate that matchup twice within a seven-day period

Read more: AD Dave Brandon wouldn't put U-M, Ohio State in same division, final game | freep.com | Detroit Free Press AD Dave Brandon wouldn't put U-M, Ohio State in same division, final game | freep.com | Detroit Free Press